Bear Down Wildcats

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

dcZONAfan wrote:

RiseAndFire wrote:so he unknowingly ingested some innocuous drug - BFD. why the cone of silence for 4 months just tell everyone what's up so we can move on instead of having the distraction and speculation.

Trier wanted to keep everyone in suspense I guess (or miller)

My money was on a scenario where you blamed this all on man-to-man defense.

This silence is just more evidence that Miller is too set in his ways. He should have just played zone and immediately released a long statement about Zo's personal health info.

I actually tend to believe that this is likely strategic based on a desire to resolve the situation with the NCAA. The public response has not been condemning Zo, but instead dealing with the oddness of him twisting in the wind when we all know any actual PED effect is long gone.

Between the lines it's clear that the NCAA found a face-saving solution to an irrational rule by allowing Trier to play when the drug left his system, banking on that happening and therefore a rational outcome. Now faced with the increasing possibility that this solution will effectively ban Trier for the year, the release of information throws light on what the NCAA hopes to avoid: continued irrationality.

Has anyone seen anything about this on any national tv shows or radio other than across the bottom line on ESPN? I am surprised that more people don't have opinions about how this is being handled. I haven't seen anything from people like Bilas who usually love to give their opinion every time the NCAA does something.

jsbowl16 wrote:Has anyone seen anything about this on any national tv shows or radio other than across the bottom line on ESPN? I am surprised that more people don't have opinions about how this is being handled. I haven't seen anything from people like Bilas who usually love to give their opinion every time the NCAA does something.

Bilas will weigh in. It's coming.

Agree. ESPN and Goodman are not criticized in the Trier statement. The UofA is not decrying the report (last I checked). Seriously doubt anyone went rogue here. Have to think Trier gave his OK. Otherwise, the university is facing some legal issues (HIPPA/FERPA).

If we take the Trier statement at face value, then it raises the question of why divulging this took four months. Have to think there is some embarrassing or damning information they hoped to keep on the down-low. Doesn't even have to be PED-related. The explanation was cool with the NCAA, but the context was not cool with various people.

The context we think we know could be wrong. Something to consider in wondering why it wasn't part of the article. Could also be that he couldn't get it confirmed or it's one of those "unknown unknowns."

Divulging now could be an act of frustration. They thought this would be over a long time ago. It isn't. Let's put it out there and get people talking about the NCAA, especially the fans.

As for that NCAA rule that the PED be completely out of the system, bash away. Seems to belie the intent of PED ban.

gumby wrote:

Agree. ESPN and Goodman are not criticized in the Trier statement. The UofA is not decrying the report (last I checked). Seriously doubt anyone went rogue here. Have to think Trier gave his OK. Otherwise, the university is facing some legal issues (HIPPA/FERPA).

If we take the Trier statement at face value, then it raises the question of why divulging this took four months. Have to think there is some embarrassing or damning information they hoped to keep on the down-low. Doesn't even have to be PED-related. The explanation was cool with the NCAA, but the context was not cool with various people.

The context we think we know could be wrong. Something to consider in wondering why it wasn't part of the article. Could also be that he couldn't get it confirmed or it's one of those "unknown unknowns."

Divulging now could be an act of frustration. They thought this would be over a long time ago. It isn't. Let's put it out there and get people talking about the NCAA, especially the fans.

As for that NCAA rule that the PED be completely out of the system, bash away. Seems to belie the intent of PED ban.

Best post of the 51-page thread. Best post of the last 13 months (since "post of the year" doesn't mean much in January).

fuck the NCAA. all I have to comment on the matter.

Longhorned wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

dcZONAfan wrote:

RiseAndFire wrote:so he unknowingly ingested some innocuous drug - BFD. why the cone of silence for 4 months just tell everyone what's up so we can move on instead of having the distraction and speculation.

Trier wanted to keep everyone in suspense I guess (or miller)

My money was on a scenario where you blamed this all on man-to-man defense.

This silence is just more evidence that Miller is too set in his ways. He should have just played zone and immediately released a long statement about Zo's personal health info.

I actually tend to believe that this is likely strategic based on a desire to resolve the situation with the NCAA. The public response has not been condemning Zo, but instead dealing with the oddness of him twisting in the wind when we all know any actual PED effect is long gone.

Between the lines it's clear that the NCAA found a face-saving solution to an irrational rule by allowing Trier to play when the drug left his system, banking on that happening and therefore a rational outcome. Now faced with the increasing possibility that this solution will effectively ban Trier for the year, the release of information throws light on what the NCAA hopes to avoid: continued irrationality.

I would agree with that. There's no downside I see to the release, especially at this point. It just spotlights that the NCAA is hanging Trier out to dry for no particular reason.

i always had goodman pegged as a huge UofA homer who felt obligated to be critical at times to maintain journalistic cred and be "more like miles" to his audience & colleagues. as fans, it's easy to zero-in on the negative coverage, but he's had plenty of positive things to say about the program, players, and recruiting. not all that different situationally from donnie mac, who many expected to be a huge dick and ucla cheerleader during the p12 broadcasts, and to a lesser extent bill walton before he went full walton.


also, interesting tidbit earlier about how 'zo reduced body fat but the substance tested in higher concentration. someone feed that kid some greasy tony's, or whatever the 107 analogue is!

Longhorned wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

dcZONAfan wrote:

RiseAndFire wrote:so he unknowingly ingested some innocuous drug - BFD. why the cone of silence for 4 months just tell everyone what's up so we can move on instead of having the distraction and speculation.

Trier wanted to keep everyone in suspense I guess (or miller)

My money was on a scenario where you blamed this all on man-to-man defense.

This silence is just more evidence that Miller is too set in his ways. He should have just played zone and immediately released a long statement about Zo's personal health info.

I actually tend to believe that this is likely strategic based on a desire to resolve the situation with the NCAA. The public response has not been condemning Zo, but instead dealing with the oddness of him twisting in the wind when we all know any actual PED effect is long gone.

Between the lines it's clear that the NCAA found a face-saving solution to an irrational rule by allowing Trier to play when the drug left his system, banking on that happening and therefore a rational outcome. Now faced with the increasing possibility that this solution will effectively ban Trier for the year, the release of information throws light on what the NCAA hopes to avoid: continued irrationality.

Which also could explain why the information leaked now. To try and save Trier's season with public opinion re: possibly the most asinine solution I have ever heard in my life.

What if Trier is now clear and we just trolling the Alfords

That would be spectacular!

Seriously I can't think of anything better than Trier coming back at Pauly and schooling that cracker ass cracker

splitsecond wrote:What if Trier is now clear and we just trolling the Alfords

Now Scientology is involved? Now I'm really confused. Beachcat, hold me

I just heard from someone close to the family that Triers lawyer is going after PGU for disclosing private information and violating student privacy laws!

Deadspin has picked up the story and compared it to Kolton Houston, which is not good. It took him 3 years to get a clean test - and his was from an injection he got in high school to help heal from an injury.

CatFanOneMil wrote:I just heard from someone close to the family that Triers lawyer is going after PGU for disclosing private information and violating student privacy laws!

That would be awesome. Hopefully they can shut that site down for good

Fuck it, AT should just go pro or spend a season in Oz/Yrup

I can confirm that PGU's story that an ER nurse gave him the PED is 1000000% pure asinine bullshit.

The Stanley Johnson post last page is interesting...

Anyone know what Trier's "injury" from the car accident was exactly?

Wildcatazfan wrote:Anyone know what Trier's "injury" from the car accident was exactly?

I for one, dunno.

I may be reading an implication into your question that isn't there, and I don't know for sure, but I don't think that Viagra is a banned PED.

I don't understand the NCAA hate on this situation. Seems like a good compromise to me.

I guess everyone here feels Bonds needs to be in the HOF right now.

choo any idea when he last tested? Hopefully Tuesday

Unless he passed a test last Friday I dont see him playing tonight

PHXCATS wrote:I don't understand the NCAA hate on this situation. Seems like a good compromise to me.

I guess everyone here feels Bonds needs to be in the HOF right now.

If he intentionally ingested it, they would have given him a hard 365. The NCAA has never deviated from that.

He didn't intentionally ingest it, it can't provide PED benefits any more, but he still sits. Do you work for the NCAA?

Jefe wrote:choo any idea when he last tested? Hopefully Tuesday

Unless he passed a test last Friday I dont see him playing tonight

I believe so, the last test though his numbers stayed exactly the same as the one before. He's plateauing and I wouldn't get my hopes up any time soon.

Damn...I get buried with work for one day and everything comes out.

Maybe I should work hard more often...

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:I don't understand the NCAA hate on this situation. Seems like a good compromise to me.

I guess everyone here feels Bonds needs to be in the HOF right now.

If he intentionally ingested it, they would have given him a hard 365. The NCAA has never deviated from that.

He didn't intentionally ingest it, it can't provide PED benefits any more, but he still sits. Do you work for the NCAA?

No, but I think it is fair. Unless it was given to him in his soup or to save his life he needs to be responsible for what goes in his body. I think the wait till it is out is fair. Is there science that says at X level it provides no benefit? I don't think the exact drug is even known.

I have no concrete info on this. Just what I heard from a U of A assistant trainer during an Uber ride. I'm not even sure if he is who he said he was. But I did in fact ask about Trier as I stated in my previous post.

He states it was someone involved with the training staff (a student) who accidentally gave Trier the PED.

Trier took it without knowing what it was. Said training staff person got in HUGE trouble.

Trier is suffering the consequences.


Consider this: What if all the silence on the matter is court dictated?. I'm sure the U of A is going after this training staff member or imposing some sort of legal act in order to clear Trier. This student who allegedly accidentally give the PED also has rights. What if all the silence has nothing to do with Trier but everything to do with this student, who may have lawyered up.

As in NOBODY is supposed to be talking about this. As in Trier's camp or the student trainer who gave the PED I can see word getting out by Goodman, Trier getting bombarded with questions even more so than before and posting a "this is what happened" Tweet.

And then being told to take it down immediately.

Anyway. It does fall in line with what I was told on the Uber ride a couple months ago.

PHXCATS wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:I don't understand the NCAA hate on this situation. Seems like a good compromise to me.

I guess everyone here feels Bonds needs to be in the HOF right now.

If he intentionally ingested it, they would have given him a hard 365. The NCAA has never deviated from that.

He didn't intentionally ingest it, it can't provide PED benefits any more, but he still sits. Do you work for the NCAA?

No, but I think it is fair. Unless it was given to him in his soup or to save his life he needs to be responsible for what goes in his body. I think the wait till it is out is fair. Is there science that says at X level it provides no benefit? I don't think the exact drug is even known.

I think this is an incredibly simplistic vision of how things are. It isn't all steroids, and it doesn't all come in a black bottle with a skull and crossbones on the front. PED's are a constantly evolving body of chemicals, and includes plenty of substances that don't actually enhance anything.

Name me any drug that will still be active 2+ months after a single dose.

Maybe Trier wanted the info leaked, to stop rumors that he had committed some sex crime or something against another student or something? Now if he sues someone over the information release, then perhaps not (but maybe the lawsuit itself a cover, then dismissed later). Now, we can all express outrage at the NCAA and stop speculating as much.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:I don't understand the NCAA hate on this situation. Seems like a good compromise to me.

I guess everyone here feels Bonds needs to be in the HOF right now.

If he intentionally ingested it, they would have given him a hard 365. The NCAA has never deviated from that.

He didn't intentionally ingest it, it can't provide PED benefits any more, but he still sits. Do you work for the NCAA?

No, but I think it is fair. Unless it was given to him in his soup or to save his life he needs to be responsible for what goes in his body. I think the wait till it is out is fair. Is there science that says at X level it provides no benefit? I don't think the exact drug is even known.

I think this is an incredibly simplistic vision of how things are. It isn't all steroids, and it doesn't all come in a black bottle with a skull and crossbones on the front. PED's are a constantly evolving body of chemicals, and includes plenty of substances that don't actually enhance anything.

Name me any drug that will still be active 2+ months after a single dose.

Not sure about single dose, but if half life is what determines this, or whatever, then steroids last a long time.

I would assume a med that is in your system for 9 months is in your system for 9 months in some detectible form whether single use or multiple use...all depending on how far out you want to take the decimals

https://www.steroidal.com/steroid-detection-times/

Anadrol (Oxymetholone): 2 months
Anavar (Oxandrolone): 3 weeks
Deca-Durabolin (Nandrolone Decanoate): 17 – 18 months
Dianabol (Methandrostenolone): 5 – 6 weeks
Equipoise (Boldenone Undecylenate): 4 – 5 months
Halotestin (Fluoxymesterone): 2 months
Masteron (Drostanolone Propionate): 2 weeks
Nandrolone Phenylpropionate: 11 – 12 months
Omnadren: 3 months
Parabolan (Trenbolone Hexahydrobenzylcarbonate): 4 – 5 months
Primobolan (oral): 4 – 5 weeks
Sustanon 250: 3 months
Testosterone Cypionate: 3 months
Testosterone Enanthate: 3 months
Testosterone Propionate: 2 weeks
Testosterone Suspension: 1- 3 days
Trenbolone Acetate: 4 – 5 months
Turinabol (4-chlorodehydromethyltestosterone): 11 – 12 months
Winstrol (Stanozolol): 2 months

and that is what this comes down to...

You can have a trace amount of something in your system forever and ever (well, almost). There was clearly optimism in Trier's camp, so what changed? Does the NCAA use a different test than the WalGreens home test he was using? Did the NCAA fear he was moving too fast to clean and decide to go to the thousandths rather than the tenths?

I think we have it pretty nailed down from Goodman, and others who have some information (I have some as well)...car accident, took something he wasn't supposed to, the reasoning behind it and person giving it to him was reason enough for the NCAA to, in a blind review, remove the suspension, but the NCAA kept the "clear the system" rule in place, arguing that is not a ban, but rather a part of "fair competition" to require the athlete no longer have the PED in their system.

But the absurdity of this comes down to what is "enhancing"? Trace elements that may take a year to completely be absent from all testing are not enhancing performance. So what the NCAA is doing is, in all reality, punishing Trier for the positive test, even though they cleared him of the punishment portion of this a few months ago. So, really...is there much doubt that if Allonzo Trier was Alan Treer of St Regis U, he would be back in the line up? The NCAA flipped their lids when they saw the player they cleared for having a good sob story (not to diminish the story, just a word) was a major, high profile, athlete.

I just saw the scroll based on allonzo Trier own statement. He says the well-intentioned person has nothing to do with the University. Kind of blows the assistant student trainer Theory out of the water.

EvCat:

Take a look at the same article and what it says about dose plus metabolites. Metabolites are going to be inactive and incapable of enhancement. Dose, if this was a dingle ingestion, that matters a lot too. Constant use produces much longer times to clear in general.

PHXCATS wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:I don't understand the NCAA hate on this situation. Seems like a good compromise to me.

I guess everyone here feels Bonds needs to be in the HOF right now.

If he intentionally ingested it, they would have given him a hard 365. The NCAA has never deviated from that.

He didn't intentionally ingest it, it can't provide PED benefits any more, but he still sits. Do you work for the NCAA?

No, but I think it is fair. Unless it was given to him in his soup or to save his life he needs to be responsible for what goes in his body. I think the wait till it is out is fair. Is there science that says at X level it provides no benefit? I don't think the exact drug is even known.

Um yes, there is science that says exactly that and you are incorrect on both points.

Trust me, he is getting no benefit from the thousand of a decimal point of steroid in his urine.

I'm willing to bet if you tested his blood/plasma, he would be absolutely negative, and this is the proper surrogate for determining if there is a functional benefit to the drug. But the NCAA is clearly choosing to use urine, either for ease, cost, getting the answer they want, or limitations of the blood test for this specific agent.

Either way the NCAA stance on this is incredibly stupid.

PHXCATS wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:I don't understand the NCAA hate on this situation. Seems like a good compromise to me.

I guess everyone here feels Bonds needs to be in the HOF right now.

If he intentionally ingested it, they would have given him a hard 365. The NCAA has never deviated from that.

He didn't intentionally ingest it, it can't provide PED benefits any more, but he still sits. Do you work for the NCAA?

No, but I think it is fair. Unless it was given to him in his soup or to save his life he needs to be responsible for what goes in his body. I think the wait till it is out is fair. Is there science that says at X level it provides no benefit? I don't think the exact drug is even known.

You're basically saying that a college athlete shouldn't trust their own trainers, which is insane.

EDIT: I didn't realize it was not university affiliated, so that nullifies my original statement

The Butcher wrote:I just saw the scroll based on allonzo Trier own statement. He says the well-intentioned person has nothing to do with the University. Kind of blows the assistant student trainer Theory out of the water.

What they were saying on the radio today that it was a family member who gave it to him.

prh wrote: You're basically saying that a college athlete shouldn't trust their own trainers, which is insane.

Doesn't appear to be a school-based trainer, based on Zo's comment.

As to the other point, yes, constant administration increases the contaminant and decreases the clear rate. But according to how insane the NCAA wants to be in detecting the med, something that takes 9 to 12 months to clear with a regular cycle use (which is what I assume that article is using as a start point) could take 4 to 6 to clear with a single dose.

And I have every reason to believe the NCAA, when they learned of the profile of athlete they cleared on a story of mistaken ingestion, shit their pants and is being as tough as they can be on the testing/clear portion of this. They could have a real mess on their hands in establishing that line in the future if they cleared Zo on a well-intentioned but ultimately not provided by medical staff ingestion story. And they did clear him. So they are going to do whatever they can to not let this be the loophole the next guy who is not in Zo's situation but just careless exploits

Irish27 wrote:

The Butcher wrote:I just saw the scroll based on allonzo Trier own statement. He says the well-intentioned person has nothing to do with the University. Kind of blows the assistant student trainer Theory out of the water.

What they were saying on the radio today that it was a family member who gave it to him.

yes. He was involved in an accident and a senior member of the family unit gave it to him

Goodman talks to Dave Cooney from KOLD.
http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/clip/13040 ... -out-there" target="_blank

Christ almighty even the Arizona Supreme Court has recognized that metabolites are not drugs when they tossed out the 2nd stage metabolite in pot a few years ago for DUIs. The NCAA is more fucking backwards than Arizona's politically appointed big government neocon supreme court?

CalStateTempe wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:I don't understand the NCAA hate on this situation. Seems like a good compromise to me.

I guess everyone here feels Bonds needs to be in the HOF right now.

If he intentionally ingested it, they would have given him a hard 365. The NCAA has never deviated from that.

He didn't intentionally ingest it, it can't provide PED benefits any more, but he still sits. Do you work for the NCAA?

No, but I think it is fair. Unless it was given to him in his soup or to save his life he needs to be responsible for what goes in his body. I think the wait till it is out is fair. Is there science that says at X level it provides no benefit? I don't think the exact drug is even known.

Um yes, there is science that says exactly that and you are incorrect on both points.

Trust me, he is getting no benefit from the thousand of a decimal point of steroid in his urine.

I'm willing to bet if you tested his blood/plasma, he would be absolutely negative, and this is the proper surrogate for determining if there is a functional benefit to the drug. But the NCAA is clearly choosing to use urine, either for ease, cost, getting the answer they want, or limitations of the blood test for this specific agent.

Either way the NCAA stance on this is incredibly stupid.

I asked a question so not sure how it is an incorrect poin.

It is in his system and I am happy the ncaa will allow him to play when it is out and hope that comes as soon as possible. Could have easily said no for the year

1. Nobody involved with the University gave him the stuff.
2. The test checks for metabolites in the bloodstream via urine. The half life for the drug in question is very short, but as I hinted at earlier the stuff clings to the fat and that's why It's still technically in his system.
3. All the positivity the past two weeks came from the fact that the number kept going down and he was REAL close. He lost body fat and the numbers went up a bit and now have plateaued. So we went from hope to "well shit it may not happen at all."

Irish27 wrote:Goodman talks to Dave Cooney from KOLD.
http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/clip/13040 ... -out-there" target="_blank

Goodman is a complete fucking tool on this, he is still pushing the "Student Athlete takes PED" angle as if that is the main story instead of saying that Trier was exonerated/cleared by NCAA he makes a statement that there are guys in the NBA taking PED's...what an asshole.

Listening to P12 network discuss AT right now, all I can say is Kevin O'Neill and Don McLean are so incredibly stupid. Is there anything, even a single thing, that is good with the P12 network? The whole thing seems like garbage

ChooChooCat wrote:1. Nobody involved with the University gave him the stuff.
2. The test checks for metabolites in the bloodstream via urine. The half life for the drug in question is very short, but as I hinted at earlier the stuff clings to the fat and that's why It's still technically in his system.
3. All the positivity the past two weeks came from the fact that the number kept going down and he was REAL close. He lost body fat and the numbers went up a bit and now have plateaued. So we went from hope to "well shit it may not happen at all."

Do you know why it has to be totally out of his system? In other articles of similar bullshit by the NCAA, they at least have a number of parts per whatever that it can be at.

ChooChooCat wrote:1. Nobody involved with the University gave him the stuff.
2. The test checks for metabolites in the bloodstream via urine. The half life for the drug in question is very short, but as I hinted at earlier the stuff clings to the fat and that's why It's still technically in his system.
3. All the positivity the past two weeks came from the fact that the number kept going down and he was REAL close. He lost body fat and the numbers went up a bit and now have plateaued. So we went from hope to "well shit it may not happen at all."

So there is no way to expedite it out of the body now???

With all the physiological advances in training you'd think there would be something to be done to rid his system of the Trace amounts clinging to his fat cells.

Human anatomy is bullshit. I've never encountered a more frustrating scenario in all my years of fandom in sports.

I can't even imagine how Miller and trier feel.

PennZona20 wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:1. Nobody involved with the University gave him the stuff.
2. The test checks for metabolites in the bloodstream via urine. The half life for the drug in question is very short, but as I hinted at earlier the stuff clings to the fat and that's why It's still technically in his system.
3. All the positivity the past two weeks came from the fact that the number kept going down and he was REAL close. He lost body fat and the numbers went up a bit and now have plateaued. So we went from hope to "well shit it may not happen at all."

So there is no way to expedite it out of the body now???

With all the physiological advances in training you'd think there would be something to be done to rid his system of the Trace amounts clinging to his fat cells.

Human anatomy is bullshit. I've never encountered a more frustrating scenario in all my years of fandom in sports.

I can't even imagine how Miller and trier feel.

A few grains of soap powder stuffed into his urethra prior to the test will do the trick

So if he doesn't play on a Thursday, no way he plays on Saturday given they only test once a week?