let's talk '18

prh · Post by **prh** » Tue May 22, 2018 7:33 pm

YoDeFoe wrote:I know we're all "back the Pac" and "it's better if UCLA is good" but also Fuck UCLA and I'd be thrilled if they lost all four of these guys.

Edit: Also I would take Shareef back in a heartbeat and delete all of my posts about him being a sack of baby powder in Paul George's body.

I'm not so sure a bunch of people here share that sentiment. I'd actually guess that most fans in the Pac12 don't do that, since this conference has been horrifically mismanaged and that has encouraged us to hate everyone else.

But above all, Pac12 hates Arizona and we all hate everyone back. So fuck the Pac12 and fuck every other school in this conference.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Tue May 22, 2018 10:51 pm

I'll generally stay out of this one, but for the record: if it's bad for UCLA, it's good for us.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed May 23, 2018 8:31 am

Here's why I root for the Pac (minus ASU) to be good:

It was not an uncommon view in warrior societies that slaying your enemies and consuming their flesh allowed you to assume their life force. The rise of SOS in college basketball has created an identical scenario. By vanquishing our enemies and consuming their flesh, we benefit directly from their own strength.

The stronger the enemy, the greater the life force Arizona gains in the process of vanquishing them. That is why I like when Pac teams are strong. Their strength is just another facet of them to convert for ourselves.

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Wed May 23, 2018 9:40 am

Ok well then it's just me and Spiff. That's all I need. Spiff, and this ashtray... And this paddle game.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Wed May 23, 2018 10:05 am

YoDeFoe wrote:Ok well then it's just me and Spiff. That's all I need. Spiff, and this ashtray... And this paddle game.

Me too.

And this chair.

EOCT · Post by **EOCT** » Thu May 24, 2018 9:32 am

Merkin wrote:
YoDeFoe wrote:Ok well then it's just me and Spiff. That's all I need. Spiff, and this ashtray... And this paddle game.
Me too.

And this chair.

Yes, Spiff! Yo, tambien. Tres Caballeros.

And the three partially read books sitting here.

dmjcat · Post by **dmjcat** » Thu May 24, 2018 1:25 pm

https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/competing ... d=55407713" target="_blank

What's most notable about this "best of the rest" level in 2018 is arguably the absence of Arizona. Typically, the Wildcats would be right there at the top of the next tier alongside the Jayhawks and Heels, but the uncertainty attached to Arizona as a result of the ongoing FBI investigation does appear to be taking a toll.

It's good news for Arizona fans, certainly, that Brandon Williams has walked back his earlier de-commitment and will, apparently, play for the Wildcats next season. Nevertheless, having Williams and Devonaire Doutrive in the fold gives Arizona just the No. 18-ranked recruiting class nationally.

True, Arizona coach Sean Miller also is bringing in one player from overseas (Belgian forward Omar Thielemans) and two graduate transfers ( Justin Coleman of Samford and Ryan Luther of Pittsburgh). In addition, Duke transfer Chase Jeter will be eligible next season. Still, for a blue-chip program that lost all five starters from last season, Arizona is presenting an unusual look in terms of recruiting. It's tough to stay "on top" below Duke and Kentucky.

Coaches?often? can achieve their best recruiting results early in their tenure

Speaking of striking aspects of the 2018-19 freshman class nationally, look at Oregon. Dana Altman has brought in quite a haul in Eugene (including Bol Bol, Louis King, Will Richardson and Miles Norris) and, moreover, the head coach has done so heading into his ninth season at the helm with the Ducks.

Altman is therefore an exception to a somewhat more common rule: Whether your favored example is Cuonzo Martin when he arrived at Missouri, Shaka Smart early in his tenure at Texas or, at the risk of sounding repetitious, Cuonzo Martin when he arrived at Cal, we often see new coaches make a splash early in terms of recruiting.

Once that splash has been made, however, duplicating it usually proves to be a challenge. For all the talk of a "game-changer" for a program whenever an outstanding recruiting class is signed, no team outside of the above named "big six" (Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina, Kansas, UCLA and Arizona) has landed more than one freshman class with 15 recruiting points over the past eight years. Splashes are really tough to sustain.

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Thu May 24, 2018 2:21 pm

The media is totally focusing on the starting talent Arizona lost. It's also assuming that we're replacing that talent with the incoming class and that the cupboard is essentially bare, which isn't true. Randolph, Akot & Lee could all be big contributors next season even though they're on no one's radar. It's amazing how they were given so much hype as incoming freshmen and now have been totally dismissed or forgotten by the very same media. It's one of the reasons Arizona might not be as bad off as people think.

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Thu May 24, 2018 2:22 pm

The final note regarding the "Villanova way" mirrors how we've described their recruiting and player management success (successful in that it's producing results in play, if not in the class rankings). I'd argue that UNC recruits in the same fashion: rarely in the top 10, but usually in the top 20 with a select number of good players that they're usually able to retain for three or more years.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Thu May 24, 2018 2:22 pm

I would be perfectly fine if Sean started shifting his focus away from the OAD guys and more towards the 3/4 year players. Those are the guys he was getting at Xavier, and they're the guys who've been the backbone of his AZ teams (Nick Johnson, TJM, Tarc, Solo, Ristic, Fogg). I think we can compete for Pac titles and FFs with fewer OAD guys.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Thu May 24, 2018 2:23 pm

YoDeFoe wrote:The final note regarding the "Villanova way" mirrors how we've described their recruiting and player management success (successful in that it's producing results in play, if not in the class rankings). I'd argue that UNC recruits in the same fashion: rarely in the top 10, but usually in the top 20 with a select number of good players that they're usually able to retain for three or more years.

Think we're on the same page, YDF.

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Thu May 24, 2018 2:35 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:I would be perfectly fine if Sean started shifting his focus away from the OAD guys and more towards the 3/4 year players. Those are the guys he was getting at Xavier, and they're the guys who've been the backbone of his AZ teams (Nick Johnson, TJM, Tarc, Solo, Ristic, Fogg). I think we can compete for Pac titles and FFs with fewer OAD guys.

Yeah we're on the same page here. It's been great fun having five star guys come in and leave to the NBA, but I could really use some deeper post-season success at this point in the Miller arc.

I made this comment to some buddies recently: look at this Celtics team and I wonder if guys like Rozier, Tatum, and Brown would be developing and excelling to this degree if Kyrie and Hayward were on the court all year. Would those younger/less heralded guys have had the room to develop? To fail and still get PT and thereby learn without the monster of fear climbing up their back that they'll never get off the bench if they fuck up?

I really think we have an opportunity this season to see guys grow. Heck I went so far as to advocate for no grad transfers - just roll the ball out with Barcello and Lee at the point and the post and let those guys get a season under them of growth. Surely I'm an outlier in my faith, but I think we can all agree that the fundamentals of giving guys time to grow works. Consistency in the roster works. Trust and the gracious giving of opportunity despite failure works.

Even with our two grad transfers we should have the roster room and the lack of "I NEED MINE FOR THE NBA SCOUTS" high usage to allow guys to develop. As Zonagrad said... these guys Akot, Randolph, Lee, Barcello were a great class in their own right last year. They were just hidden behind our Kyrie and Gordon Hayward. I don't know that this year will be the year for postseason success (heck I'm hoping for postseason play) - but it damn well could set us up for a 2019-20 of third and fourth year players that have grown to lead this team.

dcZONAfan · Post by **dcZONAfan** » Thu May 24, 2018 2:54 pm

YoDeFoe wrote: I made this comment to some buddies recently: look at this Celtics team and I wonder if guys like Rozier, Tatum, and Brown would be developing and excelling to this degree if Kyrie and Hayward were on the court all year. Would those younger/less heralded guys have had the room to develop? To fail and still get PT and thereby learn without the monster of fear climbing up their back that they'll never get off the bench if they fuck up?

I really think we have an opportunity this season to see guys grow. Heck I went so far as to advocate for no grad transfers - just roll the ball out with Barcello and Lee at the point and the post and let those guys get a season under them of growth. Surely I'm an outlier in my faith, but I think we can all agree that the fundamentals of giving guys time to grow works. Consistency in the roster works. Trust and the gracious giving of opportunity despite failure works.

Even with our two grad transfers we should have the roster room and the lack of "I NEED MINE FOR THE NBA SCOUTS" high usage to allow guys to develop. As Zonagrad said... these guys Akot, Randolph, Lee, Barcello were a great class in their own right last year. They were just hidden behind our Kyrie and Gordon Hayward. I don't know that this year will be the year for postseason success (heck I'm hoping for postseason play) - but it damn well could set us up for a 2019-20 of third and fourth year players that have grown to lead this team.

While I agree we might be set up well for 2019-20, I want to discuss the Celtics part of your post, as a Celtics fan. I think you are underrating Brad Stevens in this scenario, who uses his bench incredibly well and I have no doubt would have developed these guys no matter what happened to Hayward and, to a lesser degree, Kyrie. Terry Rozier is having this impact because he's been developed under Stevens, and was a playmaker all year even when Kyrie was healthy. He just got to be that playmaker in a lot more, and more important, minutes and, unless you've watched the Celtics all year, it probably seems crazy given the stage he's doing it on. But it's not that surprising to me. Now, they've been able to develop better because of more playing time, absolutely. But these are young guys who are future stars, that's pretty different from Barcello, Lee, Akot (could be a star) type players.

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Thu May 24, 2018 4:21 pm

Wait so Jake got our 13th scholly or we're still looking for a big?

U.P. Zona Fan · Post by **U.P. Zona Fan** » Thu May 24, 2018 11:23 pm

Jefe wrote:Wait so Jake got our 13th scholly or we're still looking for a big?

I think Jake brings us to 12 scholarship players as of now.
So he got our 13 th scholly and there are offers out there for the 12th.

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Fri May 25, 2018 10:25 am

dcZONAfan wrote: While I agree we might be set up well for 2019-20, I want to discuss the Celtics part of your post, as a Celtics fan. I think you are underrating Brad Stevens in this scenario, who uses his bench incredibly well and I have no doubt would have developed these guys no matter what happened to Hayward and, to a lesser degree, Kyrie. Terry Rozier is having this impact because he's been developed under Stevens, and was a playmaker all year even when Kyrie was healthy. He just got to be that playmaker in a lot more, and more important, minutes and, unless you've watched the Celtics all year, it probably seems crazy given the stage he's doing it on. But it's not that surprising to me. Now, they've been able to develop better because of more playing time, absolutely. But these are young guys who are future stars, that's pretty different from Barcello, Lee, Akot (could be a star) type players.

DC - absolutely true that Stevens is a phenomenal coach (should have been COY) who would have developed and utilized these players. Also clear that Brown was already developing into a star and that Tatum was the most sure-fire offensive draftee since Jabari Parker.

My larger point still stands, I think, that players grow when given ample opportunity - not just to come off the bench or "play their role" but to make an impact. To lead in the moment. I truly believe, despite my above caveat, that those emergent Celtics players have grown and are continuing to grow in large part due to the absence of higher usage players like Kyrie and Gordon Hawyard. Kryie was tied for 8th highest usage in the NBA when he went down (31%). Brown and Rozier took 4 FGAs/g last playoffs - they're taking 14 now. That matters.

It's just an example, maybe an imperfect simile, but I hope it's something that we can see this season with these Cats. That the lack of clear high usage players will allow players to develop into the best versions of themselves. We've seen how Randolph can score when given the chance. Akot has the body and vision of an 10 year NBA player. All down the bench we have weapons. I'm hoping additional game time and usage this season helps sharpen the blade.

midnightx · Post by **midnightx** » Fri May 25, 2018 2:47 pm

If the '18/'19 squad is able to develop chemistry, they could surprise a lot of people. There is a lot of talent on that roster, with 4 highly rated players returning with at least one year of college basketball under their belts. It doesn't have Aaron Gordon, Stanley Johnson or Deandre Ayton staring as a freshman, but it has talent. And for all of the praise Oregon and UCLA are receiving for their recruiting classes, at this point, it only looks good on paper -- for example, Kentucky has had top classes that have greatly underperformed over the past several years. Even last year's Arizona class was a top five class with only one player ultimately doing anything. Oregon may ultimately be great -- or they be great on paper, with a young, overrated and underdeveloped team in actuality.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Wed May 30, 2018 7:39 am

Reid Travis transferring from Stanford as a grad transfer, eligible immediately.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Wed May 30, 2018 7:41 am

Beachcat97 wrote:Reid Travis transferring from Stanford as a grad transfer, eligible immediately.

Kentucky.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Wed May 30, 2018 8:03 am

ChooChooCat wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:Reid Travis transferring from Stanford as a grad transfer, eligible immediately.
Kentucky.

Stanford to Kentucky? That’s gotta be an unprecedented move.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Wed May 30, 2018 9:25 am

Stanford was going to be pretty good next year and had a nice class coming in. Interesting move

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Wed May 30, 2018 9:45 am

This blows up my "Stanford is going to win the Pac-12" hot take.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Wed May 30, 2018 9:50 am

He will always have his Stanford degree, which is pretty incredible.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Wed May 30, 2018 9:59 am

YoDeFoe wrote:This blows up my "Stanford is going to win the Pac-12" hot take.

Not a chance. Oregon is the clear front-runner. UCLA's roster is probably second best. Beyond that, anyone's guess. Maybe USC and AZ in the mix.

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Wed May 30, 2018 10:08 am

Beachcat97 wrote:
YoDeFoe wrote:This blows up my "Stanford is going to win the Pac-12" hot take.
Not a chance. Oregon is the clear front-runner. UCLA's roster is probably second best. Beyond that, anyone's guess. Maybe USC and AZ in the mix.

With Travis in tow, I (clearly) really liked Stanford's group. I mean it's moot now, but Deajon Davis as a soph PG, Oscar De Silva in his second year, Travis the horse and Sharma the 7 footer in the post, Okpala stepping up. They were a good, big, long, strong, smart group.

Oregon has the stars but Stanford had the proven players. I didn't think Wilkes would return to UCLA so that bolsters their case but I don't trust Alford to win shit - he's never won the conference. USC same thing, don't trust Enfield to get it done (remember two years ago when they had a chance to stay with UCLA/Oregon/Arizona at the top of the conf and they lost three straight to drop to the middle and vanish in the post-season?).

Like I said though: moot now.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Wed May 30, 2018 10:18 am

azcat49 wrote:Stanford was going to be pretty good next year and had a nice class coming in. Interesting move

They still weren't going to win shit. Travis is doing this for a national title run. Playing another year isnt going to help his draft stock or anything.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Wed May 30, 2018 10:21 am

YoDeFoe wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:
YoDeFoe wrote:This blows up my "Stanford is going to win the Pac-12" hot take.
Not a chance. Oregon is the clear front-runner. UCLA's roster is probably second best. Beyond that, anyone's guess. Maybe USC and AZ in the mix.
With Travis in tow, I (clearly) really liked Stanford's group. I mean it's moot now, but Deajon Davis as a soph PG, Oscar De Silva in his second year, Travis the horse and Sharma the 7 footer in the post, Okpala stepping up. They were a good, big, long, strong, smart group.

Oregon has the stars but Stanford had the proven players. I didn't think Wilkes would return to UCLA so that bolsters their case but I don't trust Alford to win shit - he's never won the conference. USC same thing, don't trust Enfield to get it done (remember two years ago when they had a chance to stay with UCLA/Oregon/Arizona at the top of the conf and they lost three straight to drop to the middle and vanish in the post-season?).

Like I said though: moot now.

I didn't say UCLA would finish 2nd but that they have the 2nd best roster. UCLA normally has a top 3 roster and proceeds to finish outside the top 3. That's the current state of Bruin hoops.

Altman is the best coach in the Pac, imo. And yes, that includes Miller. So I like the combo of elite coaching and elite talent. If they stay healthy, the Ducks should be a national contender. The rest of the Pac is a mixed bag, and with Travis leaving, we lose one of our better players. I think the 2-5 spots are as wide open as ever, but I do think SC and AZ will be in there. I like UW too.

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Wed May 30, 2018 10:27 am

Beachcat97 wrote:
YoDeFoe wrote:
With Travis in tow, I (clearly) really liked Stanford's group. I mean it's moot now, but Deajon Davis as a soph PG, Oscar De Silva in his second year, Travis the horse and Sharma the 7 footer in the post, Okpala stepping up. They were a good, big, long, strong, smart group.

Oregon has the stars but Stanford had the proven players. I didn't think Wilkes would return to UCLA so that bolsters their case but I don't trust Alford to win shit - he's never won the conference. USC same thing, don't trust Enfield to get it done (remember two years ago when they had a chance to stay with UCLA/Oregon/Arizona at the top of the conf and they lost three straight to drop to the middle and vanish in the post-season?).

Like I said though: moot now.
I didn't say UCLA would finish 2nd but that they have the 2nd best roster. UCLA normally has a top 3 roster and proceeds to finish outside the top 3. That's the current state of Bruin hoops.

Altman is the best coach in the Pac, imo. And yes, that includes Miller. So I like the combo of elite coaching and elite talent. If they stay healthy, the Ducks should be a national contender. The rest of the Pac is a mixed bag, and with Travis leaving, we lose one of our better players. I think the 2-5 spots are as wide open as ever, but I do think SC and AZ will be in there. I like UW too.

Oregon's group of Pritchard and Wooten with Louis King and Bol Bol joining, playing under Altman should be great. Don't know if they'll be contenders nationally but they're odds on to win the Pac-12, yes.

midnightx · Post by **midnightx** » Wed May 30, 2018 10:54 am

Beachcat97 wrote:
YoDeFoe wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:
YoDeFoe wrote:This blows up my "Stanford is going to win the Pac-12" hot take.
Not a chance. Oregon is the clear front-runner. UCLA's roster is probably second best. Beyond that, anyone's guess. Maybe USC and AZ in the mix.
With Travis in tow, I (clearly) really liked Stanford's group. I mean it's moot now, but Deajon Davis as a soph PG, Oscar De Silva in his second year, Travis the horse and Sharma the 7 footer in the post, Okpala stepping up. They were a good, big, long, strong, smart group.

Oregon has the stars but Stanford had the proven players. I didn't think Wilkes would return to UCLA so that bolsters their case but I don't trust Alford to win shit - he's never won the conference. USC same thing, don't trust Enfield to get it done (remember two years ago when they had a chance to stay with UCLA/Oregon/Arizona at the top of the conf and they lost three straight to drop to the middle and vanish in the post-season?).

Like I said though: moot now.
I didn't say UCLA would finish 2nd but that they have the 2nd best roster. UCLA normally has a top 3 roster and proceeds to finish outside the top 3. That's the current state of Bruin hoops.

Altman is the best coach in the Pac, imo. And yes, that includes Miller. So I like the combo of elite coaching and elite talent. If they stay healthy, the Ducks should be a national contender. The rest of the Pac is a mixed bag, and with Travis leaving, we lose one of our better players. I think the 2-5 spots are as wide open as ever, but I do think SC and AZ will be in there. I like UW too.

Altman has had a long career, much of it underwhelming and average at both K State and Creighton. He wasn't a big acquisition when he went to Oregon. It wasn't until his Final Four a couple of years ago that his stock went up. Wasn't Dorsey the first major recruit he brought in (and that was on the heels of the drama and decommit with AZ)? The man can coach, but I would hardly label him as being elite. If Miller made a Final Four against UConn or Wisconsin, would this even be a conversation? Altman has it rolling for the moment, he got to a Final Four, his stock went up, he is now landing Top 50 talent, and AZ took a hit because of the FBI story which has greatly benefitted his program. It will be interesting to see if he can keep it going.

prh · Post by **prh** » Wed May 30, 2018 11:11 am

Altman also followed up his FF with an NIT year. Outside his FF, he's basically been a top 1/3 conference coach for a few years, and that's about it. Not even getting to the off the court stuff. He's got a really good recruiting class this year, but that's hugely benefitted by the impact of the FBI stuff on our recruiting.

Still don't understand how people get so hot for him

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Wed May 30, 2018 11:14 am

I mean, Ernie Kent got to an Elite Eight too, but I don't think he's better than Altman either. We can play the "if Miller had done this" game, but in reality, Altman's track record and momentum at Oregon compare pretty favorably to Miller's. One could also make the argument that Altman has done more with less.

Look, I like Altman. I'm glad he's in our league. Is he a better coach than Miller? It's debatable, but Altman did not inherit an elite program at Oregon. He's got one now, though.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Wed May 30, 2018 11:24 am

I hesitate to call Oregon an "elite program" for numerous reasons, many of which are covered in prh's post. If Altman is this all amazing coach there's really no excuse for his team's play this last season. He had way more than enough talent to get that team to the tourney and didnt come close.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Wed May 30, 2018 12:05 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:I hesitate to call Oregon an "elite program" for numerous reasons, many of which are covered in prh's post. If Altman is this all amazing coach there's really no excuse for his team's play this last season. He had way more than enough talent to get that team to the tourney and didnt come close.

I call them an elite program because of where they currently are and where they seem headed. Altman got to the FF in '17 and just landed the best recruiting class that program has ever seen. I suppose we need to see him sustain this for a few more years before the "elite" tag feels deserved, but I don't see any reason to doubt him.

And yes, it's true: they fell short of expectations last year. Is that an aberration or a sign of things to come?

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed May 30, 2018 12:28 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:I mean, Ernie Kent got to an Elite Eight too, but I don't think he's better than Altman either. We can play the "if Miller had done this" game, but in reality, Altman's track record and momentum at Oregon compare pretty favorably to Miller's. One could also make the argument that Altman has done more with less.

Look, I like Altman. I'm glad he's in our league. Is he a better coach than Miller? It's debatable, but Altman did not inherit an elite program at Oregon. He's got one now, though.

The counterpoint is that we'd be ready to fire Miller if he produced a season like Oregon's 17-18 season.

Heck, people were ready to fire Miller over being a 4 seed that got upset in the first round. Going to the NIT would have been the apocalypse. Oregon doesn't have Arizona's tradition, but it has great facilities and tons of money.

Altman is a good coach, but I don't really see it as debatable until he has Miller's consistency. Miller has been able to consistently reload without down years like Oregon has experienced, at least since 2011-12.

Altman had a down year in his 8th season in Eugene comparable to Miller's 3rd season here. That says a lot about the comparison and consistency.

baycat93 · Post by **baycat93** » Wed May 30, 2018 12:44 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:
I didn't say UCLA would finish 2nd but that they have the 2nd best roster. UCLA normally has a top 3 roster and proceeds to finish outside the top 3. That's the current state of Bruin hoops.

UCLA's front court is certainly better (at least deeper), but I don't see a ton of difference b/w UCLA and Arizona.

PG: Hands v Williams (Coleman) Hands has a lot to prove. Williams might be the better player coming into conference play
SG: Bernard/Ali v coleman/williams (Randolph) seems like a wash to me.
SF: Wilkes v Akot definite advantage for UCLA going into the season. Still, (caveat I like Wilkes game) Wilkes is not a star
PF: Olesinksi/Hill v Luther/Lee at minimum we have more maturity/experience. Akot is depth/style wildcard here
C: Brown/Hill v Jeter Certainly behind in depth here. Hard to say in talent.

Bench/Depth
UCLA: Campbell/Ali/Hill/Singleton/smith/nwuba
AZ: Randolph/Smith/Lee/Barcello/Doutrive/Thielmans

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed May 30, 2018 12:52 pm

baycat93 wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:
I didn't say UCLA would finish 2nd but that they have the 2nd best roster. UCLA normally has a top 3 roster and proceeds to finish outside the top 3. That's the current state of Bruin hoops.
UCLA's front court is certainly better (at least deeper), but I don't see a ton of difference b/w UCLA and Arizona.

PG: Hands v Williams (Coleman) Hands has a lot to prove. Williams might be the better player coming into conference play
SG: Bernard/Ali v coleman/williams (Randolph) seems like a wash to me.
SF: Wilkes v Akot definite advantage for UCLA going into the season. Still, (caveat I like Wilkes game) Wilkes is not a star
PF: Olesinksi/Hill v Luther/Lee at minimum we have more maturity/experience. Akot is depth/style wildcard here
C: Brown/Hill v Jeter Certainly behind in depth here. Hard to say in talent.

Bench/Depth
UCLA: Campbell/Ali/Hill/Singleton/smith/nwuba
AZ: Randolph/Smith/Lee/Barcello/Doutrive/Thielmans

I feel like our trump card vs UCLA is always Alford's penchant for underachieving.

prh · Post by **prh** » Wed May 30, 2018 3:30 pm

Oregon is not anywhere close to Arizona, but this discussion and the steadfastness of some people is the same as the fbi discussion and its corresponding steadfast people

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Wed May 30, 2018 3:39 pm

Tally up the records of Oregon under Altman vs. Arizona under Miller during the same time period. It's not even that close. Miller's worst season with Altman in the league was 2016 and Arizona still managed to finish 3rd in the Pac and took Oregon to overtime in the conference tourney. I think Oregon is a bit overrated coming in to next season, which is just fine by me. It's nice for Arizona to not get so much pre-season attention.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Wed May 30, 2018 10:25 pm

prh wrote:Oregon is not anywhere close to Arizona, but this discussion and the steadfastness of some people is the same as the fbi discussion and its corresponding steadfast people

Historically, of course not. But if we're just talking about the present, or say the last few seasons, Oregon is not that far behind AZ. And the scandal definitely opened the door for Oregon to gain ground, of course. I mean, they took the gem of our expected '18 class in Bol, right?

prh · Post by **prh** » Thu May 31, 2018 7:19 am

Beachcat97 wrote:
prh wrote:Oregon is not anywhere close to Arizona, but this discussion and the steadfastness of some people is the same as the fbi discussion and its corresponding steadfast people
Historically, of course not. But if we're just talking about the present, or say the last few seasons, Oregon is not that far behind AZ. And the scandal definitely opened the door for Oregon to gain ground, of course. I mean, they took the gem of our expected '18 class in Bol, right?

If we're just talking present, Oregon just lost in the 2nd round of the NIT.

If we're talking last few seasons, then let's take the last 4 seasons. 1 "good" year for us and 3 bad ones. Surely this will make Oregon look similar

Arizona has won 3 conference tourneys and 3 regular season titles. Oregon has 2 regular and 1 tourney title.
Arizona has 118 wins. Oregon has 113.

If we're talking future, then Oregon has a gift wrapped recruiting class and could ranked as high as #2 preseason. But last year showed that doesn't mean jack shit.

If we're talking Final Fours, well I don't see anyone wondering if Loyola is on our level.

If we're talking recruiting, Cal took Rabb from us and yet the only notable thing they've done lately is lose by 24 to Chaminade.

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Thu May 31, 2018 11:29 am

Nevada is over the scholarship limit by two players with the Martin twins returning. They've got a bunch of grad transfer players in their final season of eligibility that are now looking at bench minutes. Guards Corey Henson and Ehab Amin. Big men Tre'Shaun Thurman and Trey Porter.

They're going to have to do something about their scholarship situation, and with all three of their best players returning it seems likely that minutes that these transfers expected will now be heavily absorbed by those returning players. So I'm curious... will someone transfer?

If there is a transfer, I'd love to spend our final scholarship on Trey Porter. Efficient scorer, good rebounder, very good defender in a 6'10" frame w/ 7' wingspan. Was the starting center on a pretty good Old Dominion team last season (KenPom #64... 34th ranked AdjD). Team voted him most improved last season.

We pursued him prior to his eventual commitment to Nevada, though we didn't make the cut for his final four. Since then Brown has committed and all three bigs are back from testing the draft. Wonder is he reconsiders his choice. Wonder if we're in that consideration.

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Thu May 31, 2018 12:17 pm

Good article on Thielmans. Interesting elaboration on the "club hid OT this past season" notes we heard previously - looks like they dropped him from the starting lineup once he let them know he was exploring the college route. Very curious what we can expect out of him this coming season.

Dual passing forwards, an ACC transfer big, a pass first smaller PG and a score at will SG... reminds me a lot of 2001.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Thu May 31, 2018 12:58 pm

Anyone notice that Nevada just announced an agreement with Adidas and didn't Brown play for an Adidas sponsored AAU program? Such BS that we (or any of the four) stay front and center when these shoe companies are the real cancer

cpt · Post by **cpt** » Thu May 31, 2018 4:18 pm

azcat49 wrote:Anyone notice that Nevada just announced an agreement with Adidas and didn't Brown play for an Adidas sponsored AAU program? Such BS that we (or any of the four) stay front and center when these shoe companies are the real cancer

Absolutely

dmjcat · Post by **dmjcat** » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:48 pm

AZ unlikely to add to 18-19 roster:

https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketbal ... epth-chart" target="_blank

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:13 pm

dmjcat wrote:AZ unlikely to add to 18-19 roster:

https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketbal ... epth-chart" target="_blank

Who is going to spell Jeter?

I guess Cats can go small ball like they did with Jesse Perry at the 5.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:27 pm

Merkin wrote:
dmjcat wrote:AZ unlikely to add to 18-19 roster:

https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketbal ... epth-chart" target="_blank
Who is going to spell Jeter?

I guess Cats can go small ball like they did with Jesse Perry at the 5.

Luther primarily, who has 2 inches on Jesse Perry at least.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:45 pm

Merkin wrote:
dmjcat wrote:AZ unlikely to add to 18-19 roster:

https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketbal ... epth-chart" target="_blank
Who is going to spell Jeter?

I guess Cats can go small ball like they did with Jesse Perry at the 5.

Jeter, Luther and Lee are the 3 true post options. Akot can probably be a small ball 4 in a pinch for depth.

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:28 pm

Still 3 Centers out there but only 1 worth looking at

https://gradtransfertracker.com/potential-transfers-1/" target="_blank

Only 6'9" but 12/8 last season

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... n-mekowulu" target="_blank

Could Travis have come here? Or he has to go outside the P12?

U.P. Zona Fan · Post by **U.P. Zona Fan** » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:57 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:
YoDeFoe wrote:This blows up my "Stanford is going to win the Pac-12" hot take.
Not a chance. Oregon is the clear front-runner. UCLA's roster is probably second best. Beyond that, anyone's guess. Maybe USC and AZ in the mix.

Which ucla roster? Tho one with 8 scholarship players that nobody outside of cali has ever heard of?

Edit: Nvm, I guess they aren't losing as much as was speculated.

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