Bear Down Wildcats

dcZONAfan wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote: I did. Chris Paul isn't really super quick. He is just constantly under control and knows exactly where he should go and at what speed he should get there.

Watching Chris Paul is so much fun. No one changes speeds more effectively or is more efficient with his movement. Dude has a basketball IQ that matches the greats like Magic and Stockton.

We are going to have to agree to disagree on that one. Isn't quickness essential to changing speeds effectively? He's not the fastest, certainly, but he is one of the quickest guards I've ever seen unless my definition of quickness is just wrong....which could certainly be the case.

Not in my opinion. Magic Johnson was another great change of speed player, and post-knee surgery, his speeds were slow, below-average and slighly below average. He just was extremely good at toggling among them.

Paul is quick, but not in a way that really separates him. Look at him vs a real athletic freak like Westbrook or vintage Rose. I don't see a huge difference in terms of basic speed and agility for him vs Shakur.

This may be the first time I have disagreed with Spliff I've always though CP3 has been one of the most explosive/quickest point guards in the league for most of his career, just recently dropping off a bit due to age. Not at that Westbrook or Rose before all the injuries God tier, but certainly the notch just below and still elite.

rgdeuce wrote:This may be the first time I have disagreed with Spliff I've always though CP3 has been one of the most explosive/quickest point guards in the league for most of his career, just recently dropping off a bit due to age. Not at that Westbrook or Rose before all the injuries God tier, but certainly the notch just below and still elite.

I'm not hurt. Measuring how athletic a player is isn't an exact science. It's an eye test on almost every level.

I don't think Paul is a bad athlete, I think he's quick, just that Mustafa is on that same level and he isn't in the freaky category like Westbrook, Rose, Wall, etc. For instance, I compared his IQ to Magic, Paul is way quicker than Magic. Magic just had size to compensate.

Edit: back on topic, CP3 is quicker than PJC.

He is. PJC does have that shiftiness, stop/go in him. Obviously, you don't have to worry about PJC pulling up on you or finishing in traffic; regardless, he has several strengths (college level) that he doesn't tap into nearly enough. There are some perks to being the little guy out there but he plays like he is of average height as a little guy.

rgdeuce wrote:He is. PJC does have that shiftiness, stop/go in him. Obviously, you don't have to worry about PJC pulling up on you or finishing in traffic; regardless, he has several strengths (college level) that he doesn't tap into nearly enough. There are some perks to being the little guy out there but he plays like he is of average height as a little guy.

Yeah, that's the thing about PJC. At his height, he needs to do something that sets him apart in another area. I struggle to see the area that he does that in.

For all the haters, he won the game tonight.

Player of the game

Best half of basketball I have seen in some time by an individual player.

Shot wasn't falling tonight BUT 11/1 Assist/TO ratio (insane!) 9/9 FTs and 5 Defensive Boards.....Damn!!! Good job Lil TJ

Wasn't vs elite competition, but his best game of career at AZ?

Keep improving PJC

He had a huge game last year in McKale, cant recall against who. But I think it's His best game in an Arizona uniform and thats wifh a meh first half. Amazing second half, never seen him that aggressive, pretty much everything was created off his dribble drive. Probing and attacking and making the right decisions when that zone collapsed. No reason he cant do that against most teams.

PJ did good in the 2nd half. (might be his best 2nd half) Keep pushing forward each game kid. Hats off!

15 pts 9-9 FT 5 rebs 11 asts 34 mins

rgdeuce wrote:He had a huge game last year in McKale, cant recall against who. But I think it's His best game in an Arizona uniform and thats wifh a meh first half. Amazing second half, never seen him that aggressive, pretty much everything was created off his dribble drive. Probing and attacking and making the right decisions when that zone collapsed. No reason he cant do that against most teams.

Washington. Very weak team and at home.

Sometimes when you watch on TV you can't always tell which players lead a team to victory because it's often based on things that don't show up on stats. I can tell you from being at the game last night that we won because of PJC. His leadership and decision making was evident throughout, but especially in the second half. Ya it was Northern Colorado but you can only play the opponent in front of you and he had a TJ like game (beautiful vision and passing, not great scoring but got it done when needed, and a strange number of rebounds that he stole from people 6-12 inches taller than him)

I hope PJC builds off that. That is the sort of game we need from him on a consistent basis.

I have my reservations, but would be happy if he proved me/them wrong.

PJC!

11/1 ATO!! Feed monster. Leader.

5 Boards!

27 Bird!

Most impressive (although not most important) moment was getting that late board over a player about a foot taller than him. PJC really skied for it.

baconus66 wrote:Sometimes when you watch on TV you can't always tell which players lead a team to victory because it's often based on things that don't show up on stats. I can tell you from being at the game last night that we won because of PJC. His leadership and decision making was evident throughout, but especially in the second half. Ya it was Northern Colorado but you can only play the opponent in front of you and he had a TJ like game (beautiful vision and passing, not great scoring but got it done when needed, and a strange number of rebounds that he stole from people 6-12 inches taller than him)

Yeah, he was the difference between a comfortable win vs someone having to step up and nail some big shots late against that zone. Strength of competition is something you have to take with a grain of salt sometimes and last night was one of those times. The zone may not have been Syracuse in March good, but to us it was. We were probably better off playing most of the top 10 defensive man-to-man teams in the country last night, rather than facing last night's zone. The results would have been better. He completely "TJ'd" us to a victory. He adjusted, to me, that was the thing that brought the biggest smile to my face. He probed once and saw, ok, this is the chink in the armor, and then didn't get away from that. And when he probed, he made the right decisions, when to go up strong, when to pull up and hit the floater, and when to dish. He had several huge boards in traffic like you said; a couple of really nice ball pest plays (the tie up, a near steal that lead to a shot clock violation to keep the crowd momentum up), and he hit his free throws. He needed to see he does not have to wait for an "on" game where he knocks down 3 or 4 threes to have a big impact on a game.

My only gripe from the 2nd half was there were a few times in transition where he slowed things down. We were struggling to score and he had two other finishers on either side, vs three Northern Colorado defenders who were still recovering. You gotta keep pushing there, they showed they can play zone D, now make them prove they can play good transition D. Instead, he backed it up and allowed for not only Northern Colorado's other two defenders to get back on D, he gave them time to all get to the right spots and set their zone. More frequently, we may not have had numbers, but he lolly gagged the ball up the court off a rebound and again allowed their whole team to get back and set their zone. If it's 4-on-4 because both centers are still in the back court trying to recover, that is an advantage because they cant play their zone with 4 men.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:I hope PJC builds off that. That is the sort of game we need from him on a consistent basis.

I have my reservations, but would be happy if he proved me/them wrong.

Yep. And

rgdeuce wrote:He is. PJC does have that shiftiness, stop/go in him. Obviously, you don't have to worry about PJC pulling up on you or finishing in traffic; regardless, he has several strengths (college level) that he doesn't tap into nearly enough. There are some perks to being the little guy out there but he plays like he is of average height as a little guy.

What he did last night was what I was referring to with this post. Except he had a really nice and-1 finish in traffic and got to the foul line a few more times.

Agree with everyone saying he was the best player on the court in the second half. Which is a little ironic because I didn't think he had a good first half at all. I def agree with his adjustment & ramping up his hustle being my favorite moments. Want him to play with that fire more. He was so much fun to watch in the second.

Wondering if 97Cats found a worse player on the floor, on either team, last night....

What I really liked was his keeping the dribble alive and waiting/being patient knowing that someone would flash open. The difference with this team and really any other team we have had under Miller is you know Markkanen is going to get open and is capable of getting his shot off against pretty much anyone. That true "go to" guy late in a possession is an awesome thing to have. And if you are late in the clock, and you do find Markkanen, not only do you know he will be able to get a shot off, he likely can put the ball on the floor and get closer then get his shot off, which, again, is really due to his odd set of characteristics...someone who takes a late shot clock pass and tries to get a little closer will bring the shot to the defense. But he is 7 foot...he is going to be able to get the shot off. And, of course, the average 7 footer who gets a late shot clock pass cannot put the ball on the floor to get closer. The fact that Lauri can do both...either shoot from distance or drive and shoot from an un-blockable release...makes him a killer in late shot clock plays.

The one I am thinking of most clearly was the 2nd half play where PJC drove late, got to the basket with no open shot, and rather than pull up and force it, he kept the dribble, curled baseline, then found Lauri creeping up the right elbow. Fired a jump pass to a high point (helps a small passer in traffic to have a 7 footer to throw to), and Lauri almost pushed a 14 footer in like it was a Nerf Hoop shot.

If PJC keeps his dribble, doesn't panic in the late shot clock, and realizes either Lauri will pop open, or they will close passing lanes and he will get a look, there's a huge improvement right there. Don't panic, keep the dribble alive, trust that you can take until the last couple of seconds before bailing out with a low percentage shot.

His low angle release pass to Rawle for the dunk was also impressive. He delivered right when he needed to, put pace on it, and put it in the perfect spot for Rawle to catch, advance, and dunk. I think PJC of the last couple of years would have tried to take a couple more establishing dribbles to create more angle on the pass. Here, he ripped one in there and the outcome was decided.

I agree PJC looked great last night, but playing at home has never been an issue for him. We won't know anything until he plays in a hostile environment, which won't happen until we play Missouri in Mid December.

Gronk is right, though the neutral games should show help answer similar (can PJC perform outside of McKale). He played poorly in that first game against MSU (but so did nearly everyone on the court for both teams). I'm interested to see how he plays in these Vegas games and the Staples game against Gonzaga before we see him on the road Dec 10.

He played poorly against MSU, yet basically won that game for Arizona in the final 2 mins. Hmmmm...

Olsondogg wrote:He played poorly against MSU, yet basically won that game for Arizona in the final 2 mins. Hmmmm...

Certainly not a PJC hater, but yeah...

...that is kind of what happened. Players can have an awful game and then make a couple of big plays late when their team holds them in.

A fantastic finish doesn't erase a poor performance.

1st half stats

0 PT 5 AST 2 REB 1 TO

2nd half stats

15 PT 6 AST 3 REB 0 TO

EVCat wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:He played poorly against MSU, yet basically won that game for Arizona in the final 2 mins. Hmmmm...

Certainly not a PJC hater, but yeah...

...that is kind of what happened. Players can have an awful game and then make a couple of big plays late when their team holds them in.

A fantastic finish doesn't erase a poor performance.

I would say he basically played Tum Tum Nairn to a draw. That is not a huge positive. He did make a huge shot down the stretch.

rgdeuce wrote:All jokes aside, if this team had Mustafa, we are without a doubt one of the three best teams in the country right now

No.

rgdeuce wrote:This may be the first time I have disagreed with Spliff I've always though CP3 has been one of the most explosive/quickest point guards in the league for most of his career, just recently dropping off a bit due to age. Not at that Westbrook or Rose before all the injuries God tier, but certainly the notch just below and still elite.

Yes. There's a difference between quick and fast. Westbrook can certainly race end to end faster. So could Shakur, when he was in college. But you also have to play with a purpose.

Paul is quick and decisive. Killer combo. Being quick and then not sure what's next negates quickness.

rgdeuce wrote:All jokes aside, if this team had Mustafa, we are without a doubt one of the three best teams in the country right now

I'm shocked to see Mustafa (aka Mustinko by some) love on this board .

gumby wrote:

rgdeuce wrote:All jokes aside, if this team had Mustafa, we are without a doubt one of the three best teams in the country right now

No.

Curious why you dont think so. You're adding a point guard with length who had enough talent to play 20-some games in the NBA. Shakur, Kadeem, Rawle, Lauri, Dusan; bench of PJC, Kobi, Pinder, Chance. Trier hopefully coming aboard soon, then u can bump Rawle to bench. Which teams would be better than that? Which teams have a bench better than Kobi, Rawle, PJC, Pinder and Chance? Those five are better than a ton of D1 starting 5s

The "no" is really just a comment on Shakur not making all that much difference.

We're not getting him, so what can we be? Top 5? Top 10? We're Top 8 now, without Trier and with a hobbled Allen. Can't get to a FF if Trier returns and we stay healthy?

I suppose we could be Top 3 with Shakur, but we could be that with Parker, too, if we're just spit-balling.

Maybe we're not that far apart, or maybe you see a vast gulf between the two. The Shakur that played in the NBA was three or four years older than the one we had as a senior. Got the bulk of his run during the 2010-11 season. That doesn't translate to helping a team in college. We can only evaluate the Shakur we had.

gumby wrote:What can we be without Shakur? Top 5? Top 10? We're Top 8 now, without Trier and with a hobbled Allen. Can't get to a FF if Trier returns and we stay healthy?

I suppose we could be Top 3 with Shakur, but we could be that with Parker, too, if we're just spit-balling.

Mustafa's like 30 now. I feel his experience would be an asset for this year's team.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

gumby wrote:What can we be without Shakur? Top 5? Top 10? We're Top 8 now, without Trier and with a hobbled Allen. Can't get to a FF if Trier returns and we stay healthy?

I suppose we could be Top 3 with Shakur, but we could be that with Parker, too, if we're just spit-balling.

Mustafa's like 30 now. I feel his experience would be an asset for this year's team.

Yes, THAT Shakur would certainly do it.

This may be a less than fair post because I'm angry.

PJC had two massive turnovers when we stalled out at 63. Those were pivotal in the outcome, and both were unforced. He tried to throw the ball over someone and it got picked easily.

PJC did so many good things tonight. And a whole lot of terrible ones too.

Chicat wrote:PJC did so many good things tonight. And a whole lot of terrible ones too.

2-7 and those two late throwaways really hurt.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Chicat wrote:PJC did so many good things tonight. And a whole lot of terrible ones too.

2-7 and those two late throwaways really hurt.

Missed a layup too, didn't he?

Everything changed offensively when they went man then to 131 matchup. Totally took the offense out of sync. Parker didn't know what to do because everyone was standing around confused.

helping him out with a screen would've been nice

walk-on-wildcat wrote:Everything changed offensively when they went man then to 131 matchup. Totally took the offense out of sync. Parker didn't know what to do because everyone was standing around confused.

And he forced the issue because he had no options. Which made me think how much we miss Trier.

Good seeing you Walk-On. When'd you wander in?

UAEebs86 wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Chicat wrote:PJC did so many good things tonight. And a whole lot of terrible ones too.

2-7 and those two late throwaways really hurt.

Missed a layup too, didn't he?

From ESPN, he had a nice move and layup at 1:59. Missed a bunny after that plus the to's.

When I realized all the good posters came here!

walk-on-wildcat wrote:Everything changed offensively when they went man then to 131 matchup. Totally took the offense out of sync. Parker didn't know what to do because everyone was standing around confused.

It's mostly on the PG to organize people in that situation, at least in terms of on the floor personnel.

It's fair to blame Miller, but the PG is the one who has to be the guy on the floor who makes that adjustment. I'm sure there's a zone offense, and he has to flip that switch immediately.

I agree. The quarterback needs to read the defenses. But the blame was not solely on him.

Wonder if 97Cats is gonna continue his drunken lamenting here after doing so over at Scout...this retard who knows nothing about basketball was 1/2 expecting his rant here...

he was not good tonight, at all.

skin that as you may.

Perhaps PJC didn't play like Mike Bibby tonight but he was not the reason that we lost this game. Chance Comanche and Keanu Pindar both had their worst games of the young season but nobody seems to be pointing fingers at them.

It's always PJC fault. 8 assists be damned. Not good. At all.