Bear Down Wildcats

I just saw him riding one of those hover board things on Campbell and 6th.

Postmaster wrote:I just saw him riding one of those hover board things on Campbell and 6th.

You sure it wasn't some other 7'1 guy from the Bahamas?

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Postmaster wrote:I just saw him riding one of those hover board things on Campbell and 6th.

You sure it wasn't some other 7'1 guy from the Bahamas?

Thanks, I needed a laugh after the Petty & Vegas news

Ah fcuk...tom petty? Damn...

84Cat wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Postmaster wrote:I just saw him riding one of those hover board things on Campbell and 6th.

You sure it wasn't some other 7'1 guy from the Bahamas?

Thanks, I needed a laugh after the Petty & Vegas news

I spent from 9-18 years old in Vegas. I'm lucky in that no one I know was hurt, but I have family friends who watched people die in front of them.

It does help process the true place things like Arizona basketball have in light of the recent news. Real matters of life and death...well, the rest of this isn't as serious. Even if we get the "death penalty" no one does.

Could really use some good news right about now...

Beachcat97 wrote:Could really use some good news right about now...

Here's a shot. Rick Pitino appears to be gearing up for a breach of contract lawsuit against Louisville.

http://www.wdrb.com/story/36502181/piti ... act-notice" target="_blank

Regardless of how it turns out for us, I think this cements that it will be much more of a car crash for Louisville.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:Could really use some good news right about now...

Here's a shot. Rick Pitino appears to be gearing up for a breach of contract lawsuit against Louisville.

http://www.wdrb.com/story/36502181/piti ... act-notice" target="_blank

Regardless of how it turns out for us, I think this cements that it will be much more of a car crash for Louisville.

Thanks, Spiff. I do appreciate the effort.

I had Petty tickets for later this year. Was gonna be my first time seeing him. And right on top of the Vegas tragedy. Just a terrible f***ing day.

Holy smokes Batman, Sean Miller said in the presser that DeAndre has a 43 inch vertical and can touch the top of the backboard

His rim protection is something Arizona hasn't had in awhile. Between Jackson-Cartwright's match up problems and Ayton's size and shot blocking ability, I wouldn't be surprised to see us show more zone than we ever have under Miller. We can extend the defense with Parker harassing the opposing point guard and worry less with Ayton back at the rim.

84Cat wrote:Holy smokes Batman, Sean Miller said in the presser that DeAndre has a 43 inch vertical and can touch the top of the backboard

I'm not sure I buy 43', but Ayton is an insane athlete for his size. NBA HOF level physical attributes.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

84Cat wrote:Holy smokes Batman, Sean Miller said in the presser that DeAndre has a 43 inch vertical and can touch the top of the backboard

I'm not sure I buy 43', but Ayton is an insane athlete for his size. NBA HOF level physical attributes.

There’s video of his vertical jump measurement.

Randolph has a sneaky good surprising one as well.

JMarkJohns wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

84Cat wrote:Holy smokes Batman, Sean Miller said in the presser that DeAndre has a 43 inch vertical and can touch the top of the backboard

I'm not sure I buy 43', but Ayton is an insane athlete for his size. NBA HOF level physical attributes.

There’s video of his vertical jump measurement.

Randolph has a sneaky good surprising one as well.

Yea I saw those videos the one that had me saying 'Whaaaa???" was Pinders...he was right up there with them.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

84Cat wrote:Holy smokes Batman, Sean Miller said in the presser that DeAndre has a 43 inch vertical and can touch the top of the backboard

I'm not sure I buy 43', but Ayton is an insane athlete for his size. NBA HOF level physical attributes.

43' max vert, which is different than vert because you get to run in the max vert and vert is stand still

that is still ridiculous if true because it would've beat everyone but Diallo from the draft last year.

Just amazing! Never seen anyone do this. Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, maybe close?

JMarkJohns wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

84Cat wrote:Holy smokes Batman, Sean Miller said in the presser that DeAndre has a 43 inch vertical and can touch the top of the backboard

I'm not sure I buy 43', but Ayton is an insane athlete for his size. NBA HOF level physical attributes.

There’s video of his vertical jump measurement.

Randolph has a sneaky good surprising one as well.

It's still hard to believe, but damned if it isn't true. Ayton is unbelievable physically. If his mental game catches up, forget about it.

Dunking: https://www.instagram.com/p/BaAdjGmHbZs" target="_blank

Jefe wrote:Dunking: https://www.instagram.com/p/BaAdjGmHbZs" target="_blank

Looks like he's hardly even trying. This kid is a physical freak.

YoDeFoe wrote:

Jefe wrote:Dunking: https://www.instagram.com/p/BaAdjGmHbZs" target="_blank

Looks like he's hardly even trying. This kid is a physical freak.

Saying he has NBA Hall of Fame physical ability, like I did, is usually hyperbole. I don't think it is with Ayton.

Visually it doesn't look like 43". Did they forget Reynolds is on a platform? It looks like 32-34"

His arm pit is still at the rim though...

Jefe wrote:Visually it doesn't look like 43". Did they forget Reynolds is on a platform? It looks like 32-34"

His arm pit is still at the rim though...

Dunno, his feet are close.to that guy's waist and he's on a platform. Plus, he legit looks like he is at the top of the backboard, which is 42', and I doubt Ayton can touch rim standing.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Jefe wrote:Visually it doesn't look like 43". Did they forget Reynolds is on a platform? It looks like 32-34"

His arm pit is still at the rim though...

Dunno, his feet are close.to that guy's waist and he's on a platform. Plus, he legit looks like he is at the top of the backboard, which is 42', and I doubt Ayton can touch rim standing.

Measured standing reach in a range from 9'3" - 9'4.5". Still pretty impressive.

TucsonClip wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Jefe wrote:Visually it doesn't look like 43". Did they forget Reynolds is on a platform? It looks like 32-34"

His arm pit is still at the rim though...

Dunno, his feet are close.to that guy's waist and he's on a platform. Plus, he legit looks like he is at the top of the backboard, which is 42', and I doubt Ayton can touch rim standing.

Measured standing reach in a range from 9'3" - 9'4.5". Still pretty impressive.

Yeah, almost no one.can get rim standing. Makes the ability to get to the top of the backboard more impressive with the hops. Dude runs and jumps like a 6'6 dude.

as i was watching friday night all i kept saying was Olajuwon - Olajuwon - Olajuwon

Odd.
All I kept saying was Ayton - Ayton - Ayton

97cats wrote:as i was watching friday night all i kept saying was Olajuwon - Olajuwon - Olajuwon

If you were facing a mirror, he would have appeared.

Ayton is even taller, thicker and longer than Hakeem. I don't think it's insane to say we might never have seen a collection of physical tools like Ayton in the history of basketball.

After watching BB for the better part of 3 decades, I can only think of one player that Ayton reminded me of.

It's DeAndre Ayton.

He's your number 1 pick if you are a smart NBA GM.

Olsondogg wrote:After watching BB for the better part of 3 decades, I can only think of one player that Ayton reminded me of.

It's DeAndre Ayton.

He's your number 1 pick if you are a smart NBA GM.

TOTALLY and just to poke in some east coast bias, ESPN just released the preseason All American teams and they put Ayton on the THIRD fucking team...??? WTF Eastcoast Skewed Pussy Newscasters?

Of course its Goodman, who has always had a hardon for dissing UA...

1 more year

http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0 ... 61088639-4" target="_blank

"Impressive Red-Blue game performance for Arizona 7-foot freshman DeAndre Ayton: 21 points (10-of-14 FGs) and 9 rebounds in 19 minutes. Elite physical profile, advanced face up game, can stretch it to 3 on occasion, and has the tools to be a monster on the glass and defensively both inside and out. The question has never been talent for Ayton, who has clear No. 1 pick traits at 7-0, 243 pounds with a 7-6 wingspan, outstanding agility, and modern skills. Buying into becoming a consistent defensive force and playing with more discipline have always been the questions surrounding Ayton, who landed with the perfect coach to help him progress in those areas in Sean Miller."

This is from what used to be DraftExpress's people.

I've seen him on campus riding a hover board, he looks 10' tall on that thing.

wyo-cat wrote:I've seen him on campus riding a hover board, he looks 10' tall on that thing.

How much did that cost? How did he afford it!?

We need answers!

$15K.

Oops, it's $150. My bad.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0 ... 61088639-4

"Impressive Red-Blue game performance for Arizona 7-foot freshman DeAndre Ayton: 21 points (10-of-14 FGs) and 9 rebounds in 19 minutes. Elite physical profile, advanced face up game, can stretch it to 3 on occasion, and has the tools to be a monster on the glass and defensively both inside and out. The question has never been talent for Ayton, who has clear No. 1 pick traits at 7-0, 243 pounds with a 7-6 wingspan, outstanding agility, and modern skills. Buying into becoming a consistent defensive force and playing with more discipline have always been the questions surrounding Ayton, who landed with the perfect coach to help him progress in those areas in Sean Miller."

This is from what used to be DraftExpress's people.

Big fan of the DraftExpress team; good share.

Thinking about your comments in the other thread about teams pulling Ayton out of the paint - you're right that he can recover quickly, I hope he learns an instinct for it under Miller.

YoDeFoe wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0 ... 61088639-4

"Impressive Red-Blue game performance for Arizona 7-foot freshman DeAndre Ayton: 21 points (10-of-14 FGs) and 9 rebounds in 19 minutes. Elite physical profile, advanced face up game, can stretch it to 3 on occasion, and has the tools to be a monster on the glass and defensively both inside and out. The question has never been talent for Ayton, who has clear No. 1 pick traits at 7-0, 243 pounds with a 7-6 wingspan, outstanding agility, and modern skills. Buying into becoming a consistent defensive force and playing with more discipline have always been the questions surrounding Ayton, who landed with the perfect coach to help him progress in those areas in Sean Miller."

This is from what used to be DraftExpress's people.

Big fan of the DraftExpress team; good share.

Thinking about your comments in the other thread about teams pulling Ayton out of the paint - you're right that he can recover quickly, I hope he learns an instinct for it under Miller.

There's basically nothing Ayton can't do. His ability to do it with consistent effort and aggression is going to be what really determines it for him.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
There's basically nothing Ayton can't do. His ability to do it with consistent effort and aggression is going to be what really determines it for him.

and what has anybody seen so far with their own two eyes that proves this narrative?

what has transpired so far that would lead ANYBODY to trust this story thats been created about his lack of motor and effort?

how can anybody sit back and say any of this is true at all?

its amazing, some "scout" or internet expert walks into a gym one time and looks at a 15 or 16 year old kid and labels him and now hes branded forever, literally cant shake it.

its foolish

everywhere i look, listen, or read (here included) the only downside about Ayton is this supposed problem with effort and motor, and frankly so far i dont see it.

yet it keeps crowning like an uncomfortable turtle head that nobody can seen to push out and flush down the toilet.

what i see??????????

i see a beast of a man who plays with aggression and purpose and one who has the potential to be the best player in the country and the first pick in the NBA Draft.

only one thing left to do, win the whole fucking thing -- thats my mantra this entire season.

97cats wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
There's basically nothing Ayton can't do. His ability to do it with consistent effort and aggression is going to be what really determines it for him.

and what has anybody seen so far with their own two eyes that proves this narrative?

what has transpired so far that would lead ANYBODY to trust this story thats been created about his lack of motor and effort?

how can anybody sit back and say any of this is true at all?

its amazing, some "scout" or internet expert walks into a gym one time and looks at a 15 or 16 year old kid and labels him and now hes branded forever, literally cant shake it.

its foolish

everywhere i look, listen, or read (here included) the only downside about Ayton is this supposed problem with effort and motor, and frankly so far i dont see it.

yet it keeps crowning like an uncomfortable turtle head that nobody can seen to push out and flush down the toilet.

what i see??????????

i see a beast of a man who plays with aggression and purpose and one who has the potential to be the best player in the country and the first pick in the NBA Draft.

only one thing left to do, win the whole fucking thing -- thats my mantra this entire season.

I watched several of his HS games. My perspective is that he had spaces where he would float.

I do not mean this as an indictment of Ayton. He is talented enough that he could dominate in HS just by showing up, and his floating periods were still highly productive. He is also a kid. It is not exactly a huge concern that a kid his age could grow in terms of mentality.

A useful comparison is Lauri. He seems lime a great kid and hard worker, but IMO he needs to develop more of a "Kobe" mindset where he tries to seize things. I would say the same of Ayton.

You're a great poster and I have nothing but respect for your opinions. This isn't a narrative, though. It's what I've seen in his HS career. Ayton can be a NBA hall of famer, and can be the engine behind us winning a NC. I want to see him achieve that. That doesn't mean I think he is lazy.

And if you're criticizing me as the "internet expert," that's not fair. I'm not an expert.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
I watched several of his HS games. My perspective is that he had spaces where he would float.

I do not mean this as an indictment of Ayton. He is talented enough that he could dominate in HS just by showing up, and his floating periods were still highly productive. He is also a kid. It is not exactly a huge concern that a kid his age could grow in terms of mentality.

A useful comparison is Lauri. He seems lime a great kid and hard worker, but IMO he needs to develop more of a "Kobe" mindset where he tries to seize things. I would say the same of Ayton.

You're a great poster and I have nothing but respect for your opinions. This isn't a narrative, though. It's what I've seen in his HS career. Ayton can be a NBA hall of famer, and can be the engine behind us winning a NC. I want to see him achieve that. That doesn't mean I think he is lazy.

And if you're criticizing me as the "internet expert," that's not fair. I'm not an expert.

none of my post was directed at you, rather directed at the amount of crap put into the world by people who clearly want attention.

you like me, read mostly and in this case, you have had the luxury of some actual game-time viewing, so i will defer to that.

in no way did i mean to label you an "internet expert" or intended to make you feel that way, if i did i apologize and hope you accept.

however, it seems interesting to me that a seven foot behemoth of a man with the athleticism of a 6'6 wing could not look like he was floating at times when playing against vastly inferior kids in grade school and high school game after game night after night.

fascinating that its almost impossible for the kid to ditch the narrative (that in no way you created) because everywhere all of us turn allegedly "he has effort, motor, and desire issues that are keeping him from reaching his highest potential."

well now that hes at a point in his young life where he has capable coaches, teammates, competition, surroundings, and accountability lets see how his lack of fire and desire to be amazing plays out.

cause so far, i dont see it.

97cats wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
There's basically nothing Ayton can't do. His ability to do it with consistent effort and aggression is going to be what really determines it for him.

and what has anybody seen so far with their own two eyes that proves this narrative?

what has transpired so far that would lead ANYBODY to trust this story thats been created about his lack of motor and effort?

how can anybody sit back and say any of this is true at all?

its amazing, some "scout" or internet expert walks into a gym one time and looks at a 15 or 16 year old kid and labels him and now hes branded forever, literally cant shake it.

its foolish

everywhere i look, listen, or read (here included) the only downside about Ayton is this supposed problem with effort and motor, and frankly so far i dont see it.

yet it keeps crowning like an uncomfortable turtle head that nobody can seen to push out and flush down the toilet.

what i see??????????

i see a beast of a man who plays with aggression and purpose and one who has the potential to be the best player in the country and the first pick in the NBA Draft.

only one thing left to do, win the whole fucking thing -- thats my mantra this entire season.

I've never watched a game of his, but I've read about his motor so many times and from so many places that I've been imagining a blur of action all around while he's roasting wienies at half court.

Thank you for this alternative view, which rings true based on everything else that would go with being the top player in his class.

Spiff's point isn't strongly stated. Just an observation of taking plays off against inferior competition. Spiff basically said, "Neopolitan ice cream has chocolate, vanilla, and cherry." And you be like, "Cherry! There's no cherry! You see pink and you think, 'Cherry'?!!! Do they serve cherries and cream at Wimbeldon? NOOOOOOO!!!! It's strawberry, you bucket of cow poop! I hope the next time you order a cone of chocolate fudge brownie, the girl hands you sherbet! That's right - I said it!!!"

Allegedly, the narrative was more prominent in Ayton's play when he was 15-16. I can't really speak to that because I mainly watched after he committed.

There's a cottage industry of experts, and a lot of them sell false certainty. Fact is, no one really knows how kids develop. Do they get complacent when they score NBA money? Do they mature and get good habits from coaches and veterans?

Does Miller influence Ayton positively? Does Trier? There are so many factors for players.

I will say, I liked what I saw from Ayton in the Red/Blue game. He looked more aggressive and consistently engaged than in HS. Some of that is hopefully because this level actually presents some challenges for him.

Don't apologize. This is nowhere near apology level. I mean, you didn't even call me a ****, ***** or ****ass ****ing ****licker once.

I saw him riding on that hoverboard. He was barely moving at all, stopped to talk to a girl, had no focus whatsoever. Made Biff and McFly look like Mario Andretti and Michael Schumacher. Dude's a slacker fo sho.

Longhorned wrote:

97cats wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
There's basically nothing Ayton can't do. His ability to do it with consistent effort and aggression is going to be what really determines it for him.

and what has anybody seen so far with their own two eyes that proves this narrative?

what has transpired so far that would lead ANYBODY to trust this story thats been created about his lack of motor and effort?

how can anybody sit back and say any of this is true at all?

its amazing, some "scout" or internet expert walks into a gym one time and looks at a 15 or 16 year old kid and labels him and now hes branded forever, literally cant shake it.

its foolish

everywhere i look, listen, or read (here included) the only downside about Ayton is this supposed problem with effort and motor, and frankly so far i dont see it.

yet it keeps crowning like an uncomfortable turtle head that nobody can seen to push out and flush down the toilet.

what i see??????????

i see a beast of a man who plays with aggression and purpose and one who has the potential to be the best player in the country and the first pick in the NBA Draft.

only one thing left to do, win the whole fucking thing -- thats my mantra this entire season.

I've never watched a game of his, but I've read about his motor so many times and from so many places that I've been imagining a blur of action all around while he's roasting wienies at half court.

Thank you for this alternative view, which rings true based on everything else that would go with being the top player in his class.

Spiff's point isn't strongly stated. Just an observation of taking plays off against inferior competition. Spiff basically said, "Neopolitan ice cream has chocolate, vanilla, and cherry." And you be like, "Cherry! There's no cherry! You see pink and you think, 'Cherry'?!!! Do they serve cherries and cream at Wimbeldon? NOOOOOOO!!!! It's strawberry, you bucket of cow poop! I hope the next time you order a cone of chocolate fudge brownie, the girl hands you sherbet! That's right - I said it!!!"

Some of this is not ideal but natural. In your heart of hearts, you want someone with a borderline unhealthy appetite for competition who would break his mother's arm to win a game of Chutes and Ladders.

In reality, some of Ayton's HS competition involved opponents where Ayton could have popped 5 Valium pregame, spent half the game dancing to Lou Bega's "Mambo #5" and still dropped 20 and 10. In the real world, teenagers drift in that scenario.

I harbor hopes that competition will be good for him. A lot of times that's what someone needs, an opponent that actually pushes you so there's something to rise to the occasion against. I liked what I saw in R/B.

Spiff, you saw him in person in HS, you've undoubtedly seen available tapes, and you have a taste from Red/Blue.

So a question which may have been analyzed and, if so, disregard.

My questions. First, how do you see Ayton's game at this point vs Bagley's? Skill by skill would be terrific.

Second question; based on the above, who would prevail head to head and why?

I can't help myself. I've already got this obsessive delusion/vision trying to match us up in the Championship game or Semi with Duke. And since an Ayton/Bagley war would be a critical factor, I ask the above questions.

Again, if we've already talked this out at some point, just disregard.

EOCT wrote:Spiff, you saw him in person in HS, you've undoubtedly seen available tapes, and you have a taste from Red/Blue.

So a question which may have been analyzed and, if so, disregard.

My questions. First, how do you see Ayton's game at this point vs Bagley's? Skill by skill would be terrific.

Second question; based on the above, who would prevail head to head and why?

I can't help myself. I've already got this obsessive delusion/vision trying to match us up in the Championship game or Semi with Duke. And since an Ayton/Bagley war would be a critical factor, I ask the above questions.

Again, if we've already talked this out at some point, just disregard.

I'll toss out my take. I've seen Bagley against Oak Hill and I think one or two other games.

Offense:

Faceup: I actually think Ayton is a better pure jump shooter. Ayton needs to be more consistent with his release but has a nice touch. Bagley is better off the bounce. If Ayton faces, he does it to shoot. Bagley will go to the rim and has more of a pullup game.

Back to the basket: Ayton has the body to be dominant here, but if he has a skill that lags, it is here. His footwork isn't bad, but he doesn't have a go to move. Bagley has a good half hook and is better right now. Ayton has the physical profile to be better in the long term here, but needs a move to rely on to eclipse Bagley.

Passing: I wouldn't say either is a standout or poor here. This seems like a draw, but neither is a black hole.

Ballhanding: Bagley has an advantage here. He has the handle and mobility of a SF in a PF body. Ayton isn't bad, but how much do you really want a 7'1 dude trying to handle?

Defense:

Quite honestly, this is all Ayton when he is locked in and aggressive. Both Ayton and Bagley were so physically dominant that they did not have to push themselves to smother people in HS. Ayton's length is something that Bagley doesn't have. Ayton is also much thicker than Bagley. A strong guy can bully Bagley a but, but that won't work vs Ayton.

Ayton's defensive potential is unreal. If he gets a mindset like the Olajuwons, Russells or Mutumbos, it's over for opponents. Bagley is a good defender who will be a plus, but Ayton is a freak.

Glass: This is another big advantage for Ayton. If he doesn't average a double double, maybe the motor rumors are true. Ayton has such a dominant physical profile, he can murder the boards. Bagley is good, but Ayton is another level.

Head to head: Bagley is a streaky shooter. If he can drop the 3, he's a problem because he's good off the bounce. If Bagley wanted to win head to head, he would need to hit the J and use his dribble to try to get Ayton in foul trouble.

Ayton is too big and strong for Bagley one on one. Ayton needs not to settle for the J and he can win the matchup. Inside, Ayton is big and strong enough to ragdoll Bagley. It's a stretch 4 body vs a guy who is bigger, longer and stronger than anyone else.

They would probably both get theirs. The only player I've seen give Ayton any actual trouble is Bamba, and Bamba has unreal length, shotblocking ability and Ayton still put up numbers. Foul trouble is the only X factor. Bagley could draw fouls off the bounce, but Ayton could draw fouls by overwhelming inside with his physicality.

Right now, it is a close matchup. Ayton has such a crazy physical profile that if/when he gets a dominant mindset, it's over for pretty much anyone.

This is why I wait until I actually see a kid in college to make any declarations about his game. Obviously, I dont see that many HS games, nor do I care to watch much, because they dont mean anything outside of finding skill level, unless you follow the players closely.

Also not trying to condemn anyone on this forum, thats just my overall viewing perspective.

Im sure 97 and Spiff have seen much more of Ayton than I have, much like Josh/Jason/ect. and I trust yours/their opinions until I can see for myself. And DAMN, did I like what I saw!

Longhorned wrote: the girl hands you sherbet! That's right - I said it!!!"

never sherbert...ever, ever, ever!!

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

EOCT wrote:Spiff, you saw him in person in HS, you've undoubtedly seen available tapes, and you have a taste from Red/Blue.

So a question which may have been analyzed and, if so, disregard.

My questions. First, how do you see Ayton's game at this point vs Bagley's? Skill by skill would be terrific.

Second question; based on the above, who would prevail head to head and why?

I can't help myself. I've already got this obsessive delusion/vision trying to match us up in the Championship game or Semi with Duke. And since an Ayton/Bagley war would be a critical factor, I ask the above questions.

Again, if we've already talked this out at some point, just disregard.

I'll toss out my take. I've seen Bagley against Oak Hill and I think one or two other games.

Offense:

Faceup: I actually think Ayton is a better pure jump shooter. Ayton needs to be more consistent with his release but has a nice touch. Bagley is better off the bounce. If Ayton faces, he does it to shoot. Bagley will go to the rim and has more of a pullup game.

Back to the basket: Ayton has the body to be dominant here, but if he has a skill that lags, it is here. His footwork isn't bad, but he doesn't have a go to move. Bagley has a good half hook and is better right now. Ayton has the physical profile to be better in the long term here, but needs a move to rely on to eclipse Bagley.

Passing: I wouldn't say either is a standout or poor here. This seems like a draw, but neither is a black hole.

Ballhanding: Bagley has an advantage here. He has the handle and mobility of a SF in a PF body. Ayton isn't bad, but how much do you really want a 7'1 dude trying to handle?

Defense:

Quite honestly, this is all Ayton when he is locked in and aggressive. Both Ayton and Bagley were so physically dominant that they did not have to push themselves to smother people in HS. Ayton's length is something that Bagley doesn't have. Ayton is also much thicker than Bagley. A strong guy can bully Bagley a but, but that won't work vs Ayton.

Ayton's defensive potential is unreal. If he gets a mindset like the Olajuwons, Russells or Mutumbos, it's over for opponents. Bagley is a good defender who will be a plus, but Ayton is a freak.

Glass: This is another big advantage for Ayton. If he doesn't average a double double, maybe the motor rumors are true. Ayton has such a dominant physical profile, he can murder the boards. Bagley is good, but Ayton is another level.

Head to head: Bagley is a streaky shooter. If he can drop the 3, he's a problem because he's good off the bounce. If Bagley wanted to win head to head, he would need to hit the J and use his dribble to try to get Ayton in foul trouble.

Ayton is too big and strong for Bagley one on one. Ayton needs not to settle for the J and he can win the matchup. Inside, Ayton is big and strong enough to ragdoll Bagley. It's a stretch 4 body vs a guy who is bigger, longer and stronger than anyone else.

They would probably both get theirs. The only player I've seen give Ayton any actual trouble is Bamba, and Bamba has unreal length, shotblocking ability and Ayton still put up numbers. Foul trouble is the only X factor. Bagley could draw fouls off the bounce, but Ayton could draw fouls by overwhelming inside with his physicality.

Right now, it is a close matchup. Ayton has such a crazy physical profile that if/when he gets a dominant mindset, it's over for pretty much anyone.

Spiff, thanks!! Terrific word picture!!

If there was a Duke/Arizona matchup, I’m guessing Bagley would spend very little time guarding Ayton. More likely Bolden would get that assignment. Meanwhile I think Ayton would probably defend Bagley.