Bear Down Wildcats

EVCat wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:Threenumberones, I agree, but Xavier was a bad confluence of stuff. If Rawle isn't playing with a fractured finger, he gives us way more. Lauri got too passive, and we let the zone push us to the 3 point line.

Shit...that zone gave us the 3 point line. Anytime they tried to come man to man or extend the zone, we killed them. They opened man to man, we destroyed them. They went zone, then extended when we made a couple and we got like 3 out of 4 possessions with an offensive rebound and putback. Their only choice was to pack it in tight as a tourniquet and say "please, sir...shoot this wide open three. And if you could miss it, we would be quite thankful".

And we complied. Those were open gym looks. It's all X could do. They ran a gimmick of sorts and it was their 1 in 10 chance to win, and it happened.

Yeah, I feel the same basic way. We got good, open, in rhythm 3 point looks all night and missed all of them. Their zone didn't force bad shots, it forced open 3 looks. We make a normal percentage and we're up double digits and they're desperation fouling instead of making their comeback.

Que sera, sera at this point.

EVCat wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:Threenumberones, I agree, but Xavier was a bad confluence of stuff. If Rawle isn't playing with a fractured finger, he gives us way more. Lauri got too passive, and we let the zone push us to the 3 point line.

Shit...that zone gave us the 3 point line. Anytime they tried to come man to man or extend the zone, we killed them. They opened man to man, we destroyed them. They went zone, then extended when we made a couple and we got like 3 out of 4 possessions with an offensive rebound and putback. Their only choice was to pack it in tight as a tourniquet and say "please, sir...shoot this wide open three. And if you could miss it, we would be quite thankful".

And we complied. Those were open gym looks. It's all X could do. They ran a gimmick of sorts and it was their 1 in 10 chance to win, and it happened.

Capped off with an in-and-out three-pointer by Trier. That shot stays down, he is a hero and AZ heads into the Elite 8.

He's gonna hero ball the shit out of next year.

Lol. Well at least we know he gone.

Guaranteed to be gone :

Ayton
Trier
PJC
Dusan
Keanu (assuming no RS)
Talbot

Likely :
Alkins

Unlikely:
Akot
Randolph

Gonna need a like 6-7 man class in 2018

CalStateTempe wrote:He's gonna hero ball the shit out of next year.

Of all the guys to bitch about from last year's team, why in the world are you so focused on Trier? He's the only one on the team smart enough not to end his career prospects at the age of 20.

Alkins is guaranteed gone or VERY likely gone.

Should expect a minimum 7 man class for 2018 IMO.....this day and age you never know who's going to pull a Chance maneuver....Huge class needed for 2018!

legallykenny wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:He's gonna hero ball the shit out of next year.

Of all the guys to bitch about from last year's team, why in the world are you so focused on Trier? He's the only one on the team smart enough not to end his career prospects at the age of 20.

No offense CST but I agree with Kenny. I'm really impressed with how quickly and smartly Zo decided to come back for next year vs Chance's dumba$$ decision.

Considering how Lauri shied away from taking more shots in the Xavier loss, I don't think it's fair to dump on Zo for being basically forced into those last minute shots....especially considering how many times he was successful doing that and/or getting fouls called on his drives to the basket.

I think we are going to love Zo's play and leadership next year!

I hope we end up loving Zo's newfound ability to pass off the dribble!

Past performance predicts future results.

I really really really really hope he's working on his distribution and defense, but me thinks the ego is more powerful than that.

Trier givith, Trier taketh away.

Its not really the shots he takes that are annoying, but more so passing up the chance to assist a teammate with a higher percentage shot in favor of an awesome looking lower percentage shot. When it hits its great, when it doesn't its maddening.

Glad he's back, and maybe I'm old skool and I'd rather his play do the talking versus twitter. But his production has not matched his level of tweeting.

CalStateTempe wrote:Past performance predicts future results.

I really really really really hope he's working on his distribution and defense, but me thinks the ego is more powerful than that.

Trier givith, Trier taketh away.

Its not really the shots he takes that are annoying, but more so passing up the chance to assist a teammate with a higher percentage shot in favor of an awesome looking lower percentage shot. When it hits its great, when it doesn't its maddening.

Glad he's back, and maybe I'm old skool and I'd rather his play do the talking versus twitter. But his production has not matched his level of tweeting.

Did you just compare Allonzo Trier to Gabe York?

Gabe York never tweeted his personal praises to the degree that Trier does.

All I'm saying is for Trier to back it up. I'll keep waiting and rooting for him to do so. Glad he's back, just wish he'd tweet a little less and let his play do the talking.

I fully recognize that is a subjective opinion rooted in objective outcomes based on the tendencies Trier has shown in his 2 years (1.5 seasons?) here.

As evidenced by the Xavier game, Trier needs someone else on the team willing to call for the ball. With Lauri deciding to check out the last 8 minutes someone had to step up.

Agree.

FTR, my comments are not really based on the last 2 minutes in the Xavier game.

Trier is going to be hungry next year and will be on several All American lists.

rgdeuce wrote:Trier is going to be hungry next year and will be on several All American lists.

He'll have success and exposure at the level of senior-year Buddy Hield. He'll basically be unstoppable.

I sure hope so.

Longhorned wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:Past performance predicts future results.

I really really really really hope he's working on his distribution and defense, but me thinks the ego is more powerful than that.

Trier givith, Trier taketh away.

Its not really the shots he takes that are annoying, but more so passing up the chance to assist a teammate with a higher percentage shot in favor of an awesome looking lower percentage shot. When it hits its great, when it doesn't its maddening.

Glad he's back, and maybe I'm old skool and I'd rather his play do the talking versus twitter. But his production has not matched his level of tweeting.

Did you just compare Allonzo Trier to Gabe York?

Yeah... Gabe was really guilty of self-serving me-first talk and play on the court during his time here.

Actually, he was not. But the board Jesus had an agenda against him, and sheep follow their shepherd.

legallykenny wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:He's gonna hero ball the shit out of next year.

Of all the guys to bitch about from last year's team, why in the world are you so focused on Trier? He's the only one on the team smart enough not to end his career prospects at the age of 20.

Right. Precisely zero people thought he would stay after next season. It's a no-shit tweet.

CalStateTempe wrote:Gabe York never tweeted his personal praises to the degree that Trier does.

All I'm saying is for Trier to back it up. I'll keep waiting and rooting for him to do so. Glad he's back, just wish he'd tweet a little less and let his play do the talking.

I fully recognize that is a subjective opinion rooted in objective outcomes based on the tendencies Trier has shown in his 2 years (1.5 seasons?) here.

You want Trier to "back it up"? 17 pts 5 rebounds and 3 assists per game while shooting nearly 40% from three and absolutely carrying our team at times isn't enough back up for you?

Dude can tweet anything the fuck he wants from my perspective as long as he's not embarrassing the school, which he most certainly is not.

Here we go again...

Hell I remember Solo Hill tweeting he had no intent of returning to Arizona after his junior year and he had way less success as a player at that point than Zo has had. As long as this kid doesn't get rufied again he's going to perform like a mad man for a whole season and leave for the NBA. I'm perfectly fine with that.

Love Trier. He's going to be huge for us next season. Huge.

Outside of the Xavier game, Trier never took more than 14 shots in a game last year. In the two games he did have 14 field goal attempts, he gave us 19 points and 28 points (11 for 14 vs UCLA).

Trier gonna get us a ship next year. And when he does he will be immortalized up there w Bibby and company and this thread will look pretty foolish.

Arizona basketball: Allonzo Trier spent a ridiculous amount of time in the gym on Friday

On Friday morning, Trier apparently took 1,000 NBA 3-pointers — and made 781 of them.

And his day didn’t end there.

Trier later tweeted that he was 874-1112 on the day. The sheet above says he shot 81-99 on “1,2 step” 2s and 12-13 from the free throw line.

https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketbal ... eds-roster" target="_blank

First team AA and final four MOP. Mark it down.

HiCat wrote:Arizona basketball: Allonzo Trier spent a ridiculous amount of time in the gym on Friday

On Friday morning, Trier apparently took 1,000 NBA 3-pointers — and made 781 of them.

And his day didn’t end there.

Trier later tweeted that he was 874-1112 on the day. The sheet above says he shot 81-99 on “1,2 step” 2s and 12-13 from the free throw line.

https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketbal ... eds-roster" target="_blank

I always hate stats like this because they don't take into account the flow of a game. He may have the range but let's see his accuracy when he is a little winded. These are set shots while not running up and down the floor and working in an offense. Nor does it take into account fatigue. I want to see Trier's percentage after taking a shot, run a baseline sprint, and then take the next shot, baseline, shot, baseline shot, etc... That would show the degree of stamina better.

Catintheheat wrote:

HiCat wrote:Arizona basketball: Allonzo Trier spent a ridiculous amount of time in the gym on Friday

On Friday morning, Trier apparently took 1,000 NBA 3-pointers — and made 781 of them.

And his day didn’t end there.

Trier later tweeted that he was 874-1112 on the day. The sheet above says he shot 81-99 on “1,2 step” 2s and 12-13 from the free throw line.

https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketbal ... eds-roster" target="_blank

I always hate stats like this because they don't take into account the flow of a game. He may have the range but let's see his accuracy when he is a little winded. These are set shots while not running up and down the floor and working in an offense. Nor does it take into account fatigue. I want to see Trier's percentage after taking a shot, run a baseline sprint, and then take the next shot, baseline, shot, baseline shot, etc... That would show the degree of stamina better.

I mean, yeah. But it starts here, in the gym, working on mechanics. That repetition is huge. You want that shot to look the same every time it rolls off his fingers. The in-game reps will come. For now, it's just great to see him working hard in the off-season. We need him to set the tone for the season. We want the freshmen to see his work ethic as the standard.

Catintheheat wrote:

HiCat wrote:Arizona basketball: Allonzo Trier spent a ridiculous amount of time in the gym on Friday

On Friday morning, Trier apparently took 1,000 NBA 3-pointers — and made 781 of them.

And his day didn’t end there.

Trier later tweeted that he was 874-1112 on the day. The sheet above says he shot 81-99 on “1,2 step” 2s and 12-13 from the free throw line.

https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketbal ... eds-roster" target="_blank

I always hate stats like this because they don't take into account the flow of a game. He may have the range but let's see his accuracy when he is a little winded. These are set shots while not running up and down the floor and working in an offense. Nor does it take into account fatigue. I want to see Trier's percentage after taking a shot, run a baseline sprint, and then take the next shot, baseline, shot, baseline shot, etc... That would show the degree of stamina better.

Well, he probably won't shoot 78% from the NBA line in games. That doesn't mean the work doesn't help when game time does come around.

Edit: just to give more detail.

There's really no way to approximate game conditions in the offseason. Even organized games lack the same intensity as the season. Practice to game conditions have a similar effect. Every season, I'd usually have both my big toe-nails turn black and fall off from the additional pounding you take during the season vs offseason.

In a solo shooting session, you can force yourself to go as fast as possible, but it still isn't game conditions. In a game, you don't know when you'll be open, so even a standstill J comes up unexpectedly (at least to a degree). In solo practice, you know you're getting the shot, and there's no way to turn that off.

Allonzo Trier returned to Arizona Wildcats for a 'chance to do something special'

By Zack Rosenblatt Arizona Daily Star Jul 23, 2017 Updated 3 hrs ago


Friday, Trier put up more than 1,000 3-pointers over the course of 90 minutes at Arizona’s Richard Jefferson Gymansium, converting 78 percent of them. Trier was in a “mood,” he said, so he just kept shooting.

“I’m absolutely motivated,” Trier told the Star in his first interview since announcing his return. “I’m motivated every time I take the basketball court. For a lot of people that know me, the way I work, the time I put in, that I dedicate to the game, I expect to do well every time I step out on the court because of the way I prepare. I’m very motivated for a great junior season not only for myself but this whole program.”


So now Trier is back, Arizona is a popular pick to be the preseason No. 1 team, and with the return of Alkins, center Dusan Ristic, point guard Parker Jackson-Cartwright and the addition of freshman big DeAndre Ayton, a projected Top-5 pick in the upcoming draft, the Wildcats are a trendy pick for the Final Four.

“I think the best thing for me was to come back to school, play start to finish, prove a lot of things but then have an opportunity to try and win a national championship,” Trier said. “Coming back to a really good team also makes it easier because it’s like, OK, I stick around for another year, I have a chance to do something special.”

http://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcat ... 56c07.html" target="_blank

'The better I am, the better the team will be:' Allonzo Trier talks Arizona Wildcats hoops

Aug 5, 2017 Updated 2 hrs ago

"We're definitely talented enough to do it..."

http://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcat ... adacb.html" target="_blank

Kid isn't lacking for confidence. If he can just control that scorers mentality a little bit he's gonna be awesome. Seems determined to go out the right way at UA.

Gonna be a fun year.

PennZona20 wrote:If he can just control that scorers mentality a little bit he's gonna be awesome.

I don't understand that sentiment.

Trier had a greater than 60% TS (second barely to Lauri) and had the third highest assist rate (rivaling Kadeem's). He posted a 127 ORtg.

So he was arguably the most dangerous scorer on the team while also being the most productive passing player to not play point. I hope he's able to further develop and showcase his passing with a start to finish season, but I don't think turning down his scorers mentality should be anywhere on his or the team's mind.

A counter take would be: Lauri should have demanded more usage. His was lower than Dusan's - at some point it was on him to step up and make the plays.

We all know my perspective so I'll withhold commenting until I see distribution, defense, and leadership that backs up his cocksure statements.

I truly wish him the best and hope that this year is the year he puts it together with his high level of offensive production.

CalStateTempe wrote:We all know my perspective so I'll withhold commenting until I see distribution, defense, and leadership that backs up his cocksure statements.

I truly wish him the best and hope that this year is the year he puts it together with his high level of offensive production.

Three players in the Miller era have posted >20% USG and >120 ORtg.

Lauri, Derrick, Alonzo.

5.6%, 8.7%, 16.6%.

Those are their assist rates.

"Trier needs to pass the ball more. That is, if he wants me to believe in him."

FOH.

YoDeFoe wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:We all know my perspective so I'll withhold commenting until I see distribution, defense, and leadership that backs up his cocksure statements.

I truly wish him the best and hope that this year is the year he puts it together with his high level of offensive production.

Three players in the Miller era have posted >20% USG and >120 ORtg.

Lauri, Derrick, Alonzo.

5.6%, 8.7%, 16.6%.

Those are their assist rates.

"Trier needs to pass the ball more. That is, if he wants me to believe in him."

FOH.

Oh Fuck me,

AT could care less what a message board jockey (except he tweets a lot about 'ungrateful fans' -they love you then they hate you-so maybe he does) let alone a mild detractor.

All I know if what I've seen; he single handedly shot us out of the Wichita state and Xavier tourney games, he has a marginal at best +/- ratio, he claps for the ball like a middle schooler and sulks when he doesn't get it, he has a penchant for hero ball jack a three at the expense of a pass to a player with a higher percentage automatic shot. But god dammit; his stats are awesome!!!!

Miller and the cats are all in on him s I'll be too. But I've never been one to glorify a player, especially one whose results rarely meet the bombast in his tweets. I'm old school, I prefer they players game to do the talking.

Example; love rawle. I'll be very interested to see how far he (and AT) can take us, if AT is smart and aware enough to let him.

Hero ball is great if you're automatic. If not, it destroys team production. AT has certainly earned this responsibility, but I hope he knows when to pull back and involve others when it isn't working. Also, I hope AT is more consistent this year for those moments he decides to go all world.

CalStateTempe wrote:All I know if what I've seen; ...he claps for the ball like a middle schooler and sulks when he doesn't get it

I have never, not once seen him do that. And yes, I watch every game, start to finish, some even a couple of times.

You sure you're not thinking of Shabazz Muhammad?

Why go out of your way to tear down the best player on the team you root for? At least let's deal in reality...

As do I.

Yes I've seen him do that is a few PAC games in last years stretch run.

No tearing down, it would just be nice for him to tweet less and let his game do the talking. I'm old school with my sports personalities.

I really hope trier has the season he is projecting and the we are all yearning for.

Style vs substance.

PennZona20 wrote: Gonna be a fun year.

I've said & believed this every single season for at least 25 years now. Including those KON & transition seasons.

The ones I felt really good about always were amazing, even if they ended heartbreaking. I feel really good about this one. Doesn't mean it won't end with massive heartbreak (we're getting pretty good at that) - but this season is going to be a ball. Maybe we need a "cocksure" leader for a change. It's been a bit. PJC & DR with the experience, Alkins with the grit & loaded at young talent everywhere...c'mon. Arizona is one of a handful of programs lucky enough to have this much fun every year.

I think Allonzo is the right leader for this team & I'm excited the vocal, cocky, self-assured point scorer is leading it for a change.

+2

Good post, take home point, it's gonna be a fun year.

CalStateTempe wrote:As do I.

Yes I've seen him do that is a few PAC games in last years stretch run.

No tearing down, it would just be nice for him to tweet less and let his game do the talking. I'm old school with my sports personalities.

I really hope trier has the season he is projecting and the we are all yearning for.

Style vs substance.

There are few things worse than "Old School" thought process when dealing with today's athletes. It leads to the type of thinking where 'Zo's hero ball was anything besides EXACTLY what we needed, for example, in the Xavier game. It's almost like you didn't watch that game. He's the only one who did anything on offense. Our best player decided he didn't want the ball. Nobody else had a clue what to do. If not for 'Zo taking it upon himself to BAIL the offense out after we did zero probing for 25 seconds every possession, we may have ended that game with 15 30-second violations.

Kid's tweet. Get the fuck over it

dcZONAfan wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:As do I.

Yes I've seen him do that is a few PAC games in last years stretch run.

No tearing down, it would just be nice for him to tweet less and let his game do the talking. I'm old school with my sports personalities.

I really hope trier has the season he is projecting and the we are all yearning for.

Style vs substance.

There are few things worse than "Old School" thought process when dealing with today's athletes. It leads to the type of thinking where 'Zo's hero ball was anything besides EXACTLY what we needed, for example, in the Xavier game. It's almost like you didn't watch that game. He's the only one who did anything on offense. Our best player decided he didn't want the ball. Nobody else had a clue what to do. If not for 'Zo taking it upon himself to BAIL the offense out after we did zero probing for 25 seconds every possession, we may have ended that game with 15 30-second violations.

Kid's tweet. Get the fuck over it

Particularly interesting to me that Tempe is dismissing the 15 straight points Zo put up for us to get us back into that game... in response to an interview where Zo notes that his detractors somehow forget the 15 straight points he put up to get us back into that game.

I felt like Zo was going cool after that outburst of scoring and I screamed for him to pass the ball some more down the stretch, but our second best option apparently didn't want to score, our third best option couldn't shoot from his broken hand, and our fourth best (Dusan) was benched after getting abused on the defensive end. Shit outcome but the ball rimmed out. Sometimes that's the bounce.

Anyways: here's to a successful season.

We have needed what I call a "motherfucker" for a while. Someone who just makes the other team hate him. It can be in the Rick Anderson/Gene role where it is physical, or it can be in the Don McLean mold. But we have been...it is weird to say...too nice a group of guys, generally (off court behavior not included). We need a confident/cocky guy who wants the damn ball in crunch time.

How it plays on this team filled with talent will be the reason Sean Miller is paid the money he is paid. It can ruin a team. But there have been plenty of great teams with an asshole that no one liked but they respected because he wanted it and he got it (Christian Laettner, for instance). To get that, Zo has to be more like the 15 point or whatever run vs Xavier and not the player right before and after it. In other words, he has to be money. And he has to step back when he is off. To be fair to him, he had half a season to be prepared last year, and it took quite a while for his presence to totally fit in. There is no question this year. But he HAS to recognize when it has left him, like directly after that 15 point single-handed run, when we desperately needed the best shot, period. Kadeem got one, then nothing...

A killer can kill you many ways...Zo has to be the guy who takes the big shot, but also the guy that uses that reputation to get others the big shot when he is taken out of the play. That is the subtlety he didn't quite possess last year.

Chicat wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:All I know if what I've seen; ...he claps for the ball like a middle schooler and sulks when he doesn't get it

I have never, not once seen him do that. And yes, I watch every game, start to finish, some even a couple of times.

You sure you're not thinking of Shabazz Muhammad?

Why go out of your way to tear down the best player on the team you root for? At least let's deal in reality...

CalStateTempe wrote:As do I.

Yes I've seen him do that is a few PAC games in last years stretch run.

Since you've narrowed it down, shouldn't be too hard to find someone mention such infantile behavior in the game threads.

So go for it.

I know you're a busy guy. I can wait. But really want to see the reaction of the fans who saw him act like that.

CalStateTempe wrote:
All I know if what I've seen; ...he claps for the ball like a middle schooler and sulks when he doesn't get it

Have never seen Trier clapping for the ball. Maybe I missed it, or it was only for 1 play? Is there any tape/ video of him doing this?

HiCat wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:
All I know if what I've seen; ...he claps for the ball like a middle schooler and sulks when he doesn't get it

Have never seen Trier clapping for the ball. Maybe I missed it, or it was only for 1 play? Is there any tape/ video of him doing this?

Maybe it was one or two games, but each time it was when he was posted at the corner arc with the ball at the top of the 3pt line or opposite side for the court. But yes very infrequent.

Nevertheless, that's the past, let's just get the season here and get going. I do agree with EVs take that we need a "motherfucker". I hope that's trier.

CalStateTempe wrote:

HiCat wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:
All I know if what I've seen; ...he claps for the ball like a middle schooler and sulks when he doesn't get it

Have never seen Trier clapping for the ball. Maybe I missed it, or it was only for 1 play? Is there any tape/ video of him doing this?

Maybe it was one or two games, but each time it was when he was posted at the corner arc with the ball at the top of the 3pt line or opposite side for the court. But yes very infrequent.

Nevertheless, that's the past, let's just get the season here and get going. I do agree with EVs take that we need a "motherfucker". I hope that's trier.

C'mon CST. The clapping? The pouting? I'm sure someone would have mentioned it in the game threads. Shouldn't be too hard to find.

There is 0% chance we were better w/o Trier than with him. Who is the best team we even beat w/o Trier? Barely beat MSU who shouldn't even have made the tourney, barely beat CAL who didn't even make the tourney, and barely beat USC. First game he comes back we beat UCLA. Kobi and Rawle aren't anywhere close to being as good as Trier. Trier was even better defensively than all the perimeter players except for Kadeem.