The 2019-2020 Season Thread

Postmaster · Post by **Postmaster** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:23 pm

What’s the word on Hazzard??

84Cat · Post by **84Cat** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:33 pm

Postmaster wrote:What’s the word on Hazzard??

Not the best source but it's all I can find at the moment

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:35 pm

Ah yes. The great Max Hazzard Experiment of 2020.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:44 pm

Grad transfers ftw!

PieceOfMeat · Post by **PieceOfMeat** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:51 pm

"personal reasons" eh.

also ucla thread is up

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:55 pm

PieceOfMeat wrote:"personal reasons" eh.

also ucla thread is up

"personal reasons" is Latin for "I'm not really feeling this coach or this team, so yeah, I'm done"

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 3:23 pm

Odd that Green isn't traveling either, so perhaps that rumor is true.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 4:13 pm

Maybe this is a cliched question, but I ask it seriously: who is the leader of this team? Like, when you watch this team, who is it that's vocal on the court, encouraging his teammates and bringing positive energy to the floor?

Frybry02 · Post by **Frybry02** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 4:16 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:
PieceOfMeat wrote:"personal reasons" eh.

also ucla thread is up
"personal reasons" is Latin for "I'm not really feeling this coach or this team, so yeah, I'm done"

Why would Max even travel with the team then? If he was done, wouldn’t he just walk away?

Bordercat · Post by **Bordercat** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 4:21 pm

I don't find it odd that Green isn't traveling if he's having issues with his back no sense in getting on plane and all that. Stay home, rehab, get ready for the final push.

But Max hates Miller.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 4:26 pm

Bordercat wrote:
But Max hates Miller.

And yet somehow was persuaded to come to AZ for his final college season when he had other offers. Weird.

Postmaster · Post by **Postmaster** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:34 pm

You would think Jacob would have provided an in-depth review of Miller.

Anyway, my speculation is that max and CSM had a blow up right before the Failin’ in Galen.

NickyBCats · Post by **NickyBCats** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:57 pm

Postmaster wrote:You would think Jacob would have provided an in-depth review of Miller.

Anyway, my speculation is that max and CSM had a blow up right before the Failin’ in Galen.

That’s exactly what I heard, and also that it’s not the first time it’s happened this season.

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:05 pm

Hazzard is playing tonight.

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:23 pm

not well down the stretch - while I think he’s a fine enough player that can’t be it, and , Mannion while his stats looked good was not the player down the stretch.

gotta win two at home now and ball out in the PAC12 tournament.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:27 pm

lose one of the games next weekend and we could be facing potentially missing the tournament

IndianaZonaFan · Post by **IndianaZonaFan** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:29 pm

ASUHATER! wrote:lose one of the games next weekend and we could be facing potentially missing the tournament

I don’t think we could fall out. Maybe an 11 or 12 seed though

catgrad97 · Post by **catgrad97** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:30 pm

Good. I don't want to see these players in ANY tournament right now. Their confidence is absolutely f*cked.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:32 pm

IndianaZonaFan wrote:
ASUHATER! wrote:lose one of the games next weekend and we could be facing potentially missing the tournament
I don’t think we could fall out. Maybe an 11 or 12 seed though

lose to UW and lose in the first round of the conference tournament and we're 20-12. If we get in it would be as one of the last 4 in at that point. As is, right now our ceiling is like a 6 seed currently, and thats if we win out and win the pac 12 tournament.

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:36 pm

i have to believe Arizona sweeps out at home and shows well enough in Vegas.

Mannion has not been the player at the end of games.

being young is an underrated and impatient topic for many these days, he needs experience and an off season to mature.

the fitness is different at this level, the speed too.

IndianaZonaFan · Post by **IndianaZonaFan** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:42 pm

97cats wrote:i have to believe Arizona sweeps out at home and shows well enough in Vegas.

Mannion has not been the player at the end of games.

being young is an underrated and impatient topic for many these days, he needs experience and an off season to mature.

the fitness is different at this level, the speed too.

Doesn’t seem to have the conditioning necessary at this level.

SabinoDrifter · Post by **SabinoDrifter** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:48 pm

97cats wrote:i have to believe Arizona sweeps out at home and shows well enough in Vegas.

Mannion has not been the player at the end of games.

being young is an underrated and impatient topic for many these days, he needs experience and an off season to mature.

the fitness is different at this level, the speed too.

He doesn’t want the ball in his hands late. Passes aren’t crisp, tentative decision making and unwillingness to look for shooters. Also, Max dribbling off his foot is just fucking perfect, cannot execute a simple dribble when they need a basket.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:51 pm

Oh we knew they were losing this game, even though they really had me believing for most of the night.

My favorite part of the night: listening to RJ rib Walton. Pure comedy.

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:53 pm

if Hazzard is the answer off rub action 22ft from the basket down two then there is no shot.

Mannion has to demand the ball and make it happen in that moment - he’s not there yet.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:58 pm

ASUHATER! wrote:lose one of the games next weekend and we could be facing potentially missing the tournament

No.

U.P. Zona Fan · Post by **U.P. Zona Fan** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:05 pm

If we lose to u dub, wazzu, and then to cal in the tourney? I think that would be the most disappointing season ever. We might still make the tourney but doubt we'd win a game

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:08 pm

Three freshmen have done the heavy lifting all season. And like it or not, they haven’t answered the bell in the most critical moments of big games.

My biggest fear last off-season was that Dylan Smith would be playing significant minutes. And here we are and he continues to amaze me with ill-advised shots and critical turnovers. And that is 100% on Sean Miller. And frankly, I’m not convinced there’s a better option. Baker was garbage again tonight and Hazzard choked on a critical possession. Miller has hitched the program to some really bad players. And the young stars aren’t quite great enough or experienced enough to make up the difference.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:11 pm

So is Josh done for the season? This strikes me as an important question.

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:22 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:So is Josh done for the season? This strikes me as an important question.

I doubt they’d announce that unless it was really bad.

Lando05 · Post by **Lando05** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:44 pm

I hate to admit but I've made money the last 3 games betting against U of A when they've been favored. I've lost all faith in this team. Hopefully as 97Cats says we can sweep at home and maybe get hot in Vegas.

mofo · Post by **mofo** » Sun Mar 01, 2020 12:11 am

97cats wrote:being young is an underrated and impatient topic for many these days, he needs experience and an off season to mature.

the fitness is different at this level, the speed too.

Too bad we’ll never see it. Again. It’s like a broken record.

Postmaster · Post by **Postmaster** » Sun Mar 01, 2020 1:03 am

I’m not really mad about this loss.
Disappointed that we had lead late and lost.
Clearly CSM is under a lot of pressure.

I know Koloko is fairly new to b-ball, but he must be told to dunk every ball.

PennZona20 · Post by **PennZona20** » Sun Mar 01, 2020 1:59 am

ChooChooCat wrote:
ASUHATER! wrote:lose one of the games next weekend and we could be facing potentially missing the tournament
No.

We’d pretty much have to lose out to miss the tourney. However lose 2 of next 3 and we may be facing a play in game. Ew.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:54 am

zonagrad wrote:Three freshmen have done the heavy lifting all season. And like it or not, they haven’t answered the bell in the most critical moments of big games.

My biggest fear last off-season was that Dylan Smith would be playing significant minutes. And here we are and he continues to amaze me with ill-advised shots and critical turnovers. And that is 100% on Sean Miller. And frankly, I’m not convinced there’s a better option. Baker was garbage again tonight and Hazzard choked on a critical possession. Miller has hitched the program to some really bad players. And the young stars aren’t quite great enough or experienced enough to make up the difference.

Don't worry, there's always next year.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:18 am

Anyone else catch RJ not-so-subtly arguing that Nico and Josh are nuts to go pro after a year of college? He said Baron Davis was way better than Nico and played two years at UCLA. Iggy was way better than Josh and also played two years. Baron and Iggy had (or for Iggy, “have had”) long, productive careers, and were drafted highly.

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:41 am

ChooChooCat wrote:
zonagrad wrote:Three freshmen have done the heavy lifting all season. And like it or not, they haven’t answered the bell in the most critical moments of big games.

My biggest fear last off-season was that Dylan Smith would be playing significant minutes. And here we are and he continues to amaze me with ill-advised shots and critical turnovers. And that is 100% on Sean Miller. And frankly, I’m not convinced there’s a better option. Baker was garbage again tonight and Hazzard choked on a critical possession. Miller has hitched the program to some really bad players. And the young stars aren’t quite great enough or experienced enough to make up the difference.
Don't worry, there's always next year.

Thankfully, we’ll be done with Dylan Smith. Nothing personal with him as he’s conducted himself well and represented the program. But his on court abilities will not be missed. I can’t remember another player who has lacked the talent to perform yet has played so many minutes in the history of the program.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:50 am

Dylan is actually pretty quick off the dribble. He’s a good athlete. Just has no handle and can’t finish at the rim. His hoops skills are lacking.

SabinoDrifter · Post by **SabinoDrifter** » Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:14 am

Beachcat97 wrote:Anyone else catch RJ not-so-subtly arguing that Nico and Josh are nuts to go pro after a year of college? He said Baron Davis was way better than Nico and played two years at UCLA. Iggy was way better than Josh and also played two years. Baron and Iggy had (or for Iggy, “have had”) long, productive careers, and were drafted highly.

Neither are remotely mature enough for the NBA. They should watch RJ Barrett and think twice about going early.

Dosia · Post by **Dosia** » Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:58 am

SabinoDrifter wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:Anyone else catch RJ not-so-subtly arguing that Nico and Josh are nuts to go pro after a year of college? He said Baron Davis was way better than Nico and played two years at UCLA. Iggy was way better than Josh and also played two years. Baron and Iggy had (or for Iggy, “have had”) long, productive careers, and were drafted highly.
Neither are remotely mature enough for the NBA. They should watch RJ Barrett and think twice about going early.

RJ is making 16 mil over 2 years. Ready or not you take that money.

Postmaster · Post by **Postmaster** » Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:23 am

Do you think RJ will have a job tomorrow?
Talked a lot of trash about Duke and Williams.
ESPN won’t like that.

gronk4heisman · Post by **gronk4heisman** » Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:10 am

Dosia wrote:
SabinoDrifter wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:Anyone else catch RJ not-so-subtly arguing that Nico and Josh are nuts to go pro after a year of college? He said Baron Davis was way better than Nico and played two years at UCLA. Iggy was way better than Josh and also played two years. Baron and Iggy had (or for Iggy, “have had”) long, productive careers, and were drafted highly.
Neither are remotely mature enough for the NBA. They should watch RJ Barrett and think twice about going early.
RJ is making 16 mil over 2 years. Ready or not you take that money.

RJ went third, these guys are not going in the top 10. And as RJ made the case, its about longevity not that first contract. A better comp for these guys are someone like James Young and Jordan Adams, both left after one year made $5M on their rookie deal and are out of the league at 25. Want more examples?

2012 Freshman who didn't go in the lottery:
Mo Harkless (15), still around
Tony Wroten (25), Out of the league by 22
Marquise Teague (29) Out of the league by 20
Quincy Miller (38), out of league by 22
Also, many Sophomores who left early and flamed out

Meanwhile, upperclassman who went later in that Draft still hanging around:
Jae Crowder (34)
Draymond Green (35)
Mike Scott (43)
Darius Miller (46)
Kyle OQuinn (49) (has quietly made $18M)

2013 Freshman who didn't go in the lottery:
Shabazz Muhammad (14), out of the league by 25
Archie Goodwin (29), out of league by 22
Grant Jarret (40), out of league by 21 (made $1.7M LOL)
Ricky Ledo (43), out of league by 22 (made $900K)

Meanwhile, upperclassman who went later in that Draft still hanging around:
Mason Plumlee (22)
Solomon Hill (23)
TIm Hardaway Jr. (24)
Andre Roberson (26)
Allen Crabbe (31)

Seth Curry, Robert Covington, Troy Daniels, Ian Clark, Matthew Delladova, Dwayne Dedmond (undrafted)

2014 Freshman who didn't go in the lottery:
James Young (17), out of the league by 22
Tyler Ennis (18), out of the league by 23

Meanwhile, upperclassman who went later in that Draft still hanging around:
Joe Harris (33), Spencer Dinwiddie (38), Dwight Powell (45), Jordan Clarkson (46)

I will stop there since more recent drafts can still potentially be on their rookie contracts. But one thing to note, these lists are not cherry picking. They cover every freshman to leave early during this three year period who did not go in the lottery. Of the ten freshman listed 9 of the 10 are already out of the league. So, getting money quick is cool but maybe some guys should listen to RJ. He ended up going 13th and made $116M over his career. Hell, even Nick Johnson who barely played in the league ended up making more than that Grant Jarrett guy. Hell, even Solomon Hill ended up making more than the number 2 pick Derrick Williams.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:15 am

Great post Gronk!

Remember when the UA had future 4 NBAers as starters and another player named TJ McConnell?

Dosia · Post by **Dosia** » Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:46 am

I was more referring to Nico who I keep reading that he is a lottery pick. I don’t think any of our guys are “ready” my point was solely if you are staring millions in the face you take the money. In particular, lottery money. Maybe you develop in the L, maybe you don’t but at least you got paid.

Postmaster · Post by **Postmaster** » Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:56 am

Sorry Gronk,
Allen Crabbe got released yesterday.
That ruins you whole argument.

J/k

dmjcat · Post by **dmjcat** » Sun Mar 01, 2020 12:30 pm

gronk4heisman wrote:
Dosia wrote:
SabinoDrifter wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:Anyone else catch RJ not-so-subtly arguing that Nico and Josh are nuts to go pro after a year of college? He said Baron Davis was way better than Nico and played two years at UCLA. Iggy was way better than Josh and also played two years. Baron and Iggy had (or for Iggy, “have had”) long, productive careers, and were drafted highly.
Neither are remotely mature enough for the NBA. They should watch RJ Barrett and think twice about going early.
RJ is making 16 mil over 2 years. Ready or not you take that money.

RJ went third, these guys are not going in the top 10. And as RJ made the case, its about longevity not that first contract. A better comp for these guys are someone like James Young and Jordan Adams, both left after one year made $5M on their rookie deal and are out of the league at 25. Want more examples?

2012 Freshman who didn't go in the lottery:
Mo Harkless (15), still around
Tony Wroten (25), Out of the league by 22
Marquise Teague (29) Out of the league by 20
Quincy Miller (38), out of league by 22
Also, many Sophomores who left early and flamed out

Meanwhile, upperclassman who went later in that Draft still hanging around:
Jae Crowder (34)
Draymond Green (35)
Mike Scott (43)
Darius Miller (46)
Kyle OQuinn (49) (has quietly made $18M)

2013 Freshman who didn't go in the lottery:
Shabazz Muhammad (14), out of the league by 25
Archie Goodwin (29), out of league by 22
Grant Jarret (40), out of league by 21 (made $1.7M LOL)
Ricky Ledo (43), out of league by 22 (made $900K)

Meanwhile, upperclassman who went later in that Draft still hanging around:
Mason Plumlee (22)
Solomon Hill (23)
TIm Hardaway Jr. (24)
Andre Roberson (26)
Allen Crabbe (31)

Seth Curry, Robert Covington, Troy Daniels, Ian Clark, Matthew Delladova, Dwayne Dedmond (undrafted)

2014 Freshman who didn't go in the lottery:
James Young (17), out of the league by 22
Tyler Ennis (18), out of the league by 23

Meanwhile, upperclassman who went later in that Draft still hanging around:
Joe Harris (33), Spencer Dinwiddie (38), Dwight Powell (45), Jordan Clarkson (46)

I will stop there since more recent drafts can still potentially be on their rookie contracts. But one thing to note, these lists are not cherry picking. They cover every freshman to leave early during this three year period who did not go in the lottery. Of the ten freshman listed 9 of the 10 are already out of the league. So, getting money quick is cool but maybe some guys should listen to RJ. He ended up going 13th and made $116M over his career. Hell, even Nick Johnson who barely played in the league ended up making more than that Grant Jarrett guy. Hell, even Solomon Hill ended up making more than the number 2 pick Derrick Williams.

I'll have to side with Dosia on this argument. As the Godfather said "Its not personal, its strictly business". These kids need to make the best business/financial decision.

You point out the rather large # of players that came out early and washed out. The question is, would they have been any better off staying in college??? If these kids didn't sufficiently progress in the D/G league, where they have pro coaches/pro trainers/pro competition and no school to deal with........do you really think they would have progressed better in college?? I would argue that they would not. In the case of Grant Jarrett you actually make Dosias argument. If the kid had hung around the UA its unlikely he would have been drafted as high and would have wound up with very little to show for it.

Bottom line, if any of the 3 UA frosh get a 1st round guarantee they need to take the $$$$ (invest it all in Berkshire Hathaway stock) and run. Nico, for instance, may only have modest improvement going forward, and could easily drop out of the 1st round of any future draft.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sun Mar 01, 2020 1:16 pm

I’d be thrilled if any of our freshmen stayed another year. But this is AZ, and apparently, we can’t have nice things.

When will our luck turn around?

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Sun Mar 01, 2020 1:48 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:I’d be thrilled if any of our freshmen stayed another year. But this is AZ, and apparently, we can’t have nice things.

When will our luck turn around?

SEVUN!

BBQ wildcat · Post by **BBQ wildcat** » Sun Mar 01, 2020 2:41 pm

zonagrad wrote:Three freshmen have done the heavy lifting all season. And like it or not, they haven’t answered the bell in the most critical moments of big games.

My biggest fear last off-season was that Dylan Smith would be playing significant minutes. And here we are and he continues to amaze me with ill-advised shots and critical turnovers. And that is 100% on Sean Miller. And frankly, I’m not convinced there’s a better option. Baker was garbage again tonight and Hazzard choked on a critical possession. Miller has hitched the program to some really bad players. And the young stars aren’t quite great enough or experienced enough to make up the difference.

And that is it, in a nutshell. Dutrive was a starter, Williams didn't come back from his injury. Miller has to work with who he has. Hazzard has definitely not lived up to expectations, and neither has Baker.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:18 pm

UAEebs86 wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:I’d be thrilled if any of our freshmen stayed another year. But this is AZ, and apparently, we can’t have nice things.

When will our luck turn around?

SEVUN!

Well done Eebs!

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:52 pm

Our discussions of late remind me of this article by Jon Wilner.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/04/03/ ... -fortunes/" target="_blank

One nickname, two different approaches to roster compilation, two contrasting styles of play, and two divergent NCAA tournament fates:

Watching Villanova blast through March Madness yet again, I couldn’t help but compare the Wildcats to those from Arizona.

Until a few years, let’s not forget, the programs had identical NCAA accomplishments:

One national title, one runner-up finish and four appearances in the Final Four.

Since then, their tournament performances have taken opposite paths.

Villanova just won its second championship in three years; Arizona has been bounced from the NCAAs by double-digit seeds in three consecutive tournaments.

(Two of those losses to double-digit seeds were by double-digit points, by the way.)

But based on the level of raw talent acquired and forwarded on (to the NBA) by the programs, you might expect the March results to be reversed:

* Arizona’s past five recruiting classes (2013-17) have an average ranking of No. 6 nationally (per 247sports).

* Villanova’s past five recruiting classes have an average ranking of No. 37.

* Arizona has signed 19 recruits of the 4- or 5-star classification (again per 247).

* Villanova has signed nine.

* In that same window, Arizona has produced six first-round draft picks (including Deandre Ayton).

* Villanova has produced two (including Mikal Bridges).

So what accounts for the disparity in the NCAAs?

Villanova’s success is, above all, a reflection of coach Jay Wright’s system — not just the offense but the entire system of recruiting, development and on-court structure.

Unlike Arizona’s Sean Miller, Wright doesn’t stock his roster with has many one-and-done, Lottery Pick-level talents as it can hold.

Instead, Wright recruits very good players — even a few elites, like Jalen Brunson — who fit ideally into his system and are likely to remain in school for several years.

The lack of dizzying roster turnover creates cohesion within the system. (That turnover helps account for the disparity in the number of recruits Villanova and Arizona sign each year.)

And let’s not discount the significance of the system itself, a free-flowing perimeter approach that creates mismatches and open shots and defines the postmodern game.

The NCAA tournament, contrary to popular opinion, is not about defense.

Yes, you must be reasonably stout to survive the opening weekend (Arizona was not reasonably stout this season).

But reaching the Final Four, and playing on the final Monday, is about fluid, efficient offense … about being versatile and difficult to defend … about ball movement and spacing.

It’s not about grinding — good luck grinding your way to six wins.

Too often over the years, Arizona has been easy to stop. Too often, it has gone long stretches without scoring, without running the offense through its best players.

The result is a program that consistently signs top-10 classes consistently gets eliminated by double-digit seeds.

In the NCAAs, every defense is well prepared and locked in for 40 minutes.

The difference is offense.

Wright has it figured out:

Very good players ideally suited for the system, combined with chemistry forged over several seasons and supported by a mismatch-causing style, can be a powerful force in March.

It’s an approach those other Wildcats should consider.

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