Bear Down Wildcats

AT showed how slow Poeltl is laterally. Zeus also had his way with him many times during the game. Not sure NBA guys are too high on Poeltl right now. Very good offensive player. Long way to go on D.

Lol, youre knocking a 7 foot center who cant guard a shooting guard with NBA level moves on the perimeter? Poeltl is a stud and an excellent low post defender. How many 7 footers do you know of who can guard a shooting guard on the perimeter. Any level.

rgdeuce wrote:Lol, youre knocking a 7 foot center who cant guard a shooting guard with NBA level moves on the perimeter? Poeltl is a stud and an excellent low post defender. How many 7 footers do you know of who can guard a shooting guard on the perimeter. Any level.

1. His name is Willie Cauley Stein. He was a lottery pick because of that skill (and a few others, admittedly)

You throwing out Cauley-Stein basically proves my point. Cauley-Stein is probably the best defensive prospect to come into the league in at least two decades. If Poeltl had his agility, speed and lift he would be the #1 pick in this draft and considered one of the best draft prospects of the last 20 years. There aren't many guys in the NBA right now 6'11 or taller who could do a good job guarding someone like Trier at Poeltl's age without any help. I mean you are bringing up names like Dwight Howard, Javale McGee, David Robinson, Bill Russel, Hakeem, Wilt, DeAndre Jordan, Andre Drummond, etc., some of the greatest centers of all time and/or some of the greatest athletic freaks at that position all time. And even then, some of those names, at that age, aren't used to guarding guys who are shifty and have advanced moves on the perimeter. Hell, Aaron Gordon is what, 6'9, and had all sorts of questions about his shot/offense at two positions where shooting has become supreme, and he went 4th overall. And we all know about his defense, and he's an athletic freak and now jumping over mascots in dunk contests, he too is a special player.

All good points, rgd. Just not a Poeltl fan.

I like Poeltl. If I needed a big and had some patience for a few years for him to fill out a bit. I'd take him at the back end of the lotto no question.

rgdeuce wrote:You throwing out Cauley-Stein basically proves my point. Cauley-Stein is probably the best defensive prospect to come into the league in at least two decades. If Poeltl had his agility, speed and lift he would be the #1 pick in this draft and considered one of the best draft prospects of the last 20 years. There aren't many guys in the NBA right now 6'11 or taller who could do a good job guarding someone like Trier at Poeltl's age without any help. I mean you are bringing up names like Dwight Howard, Javale McGee, David Robinson, Bill Russel, Hakeem, Wilt, DeAndre Jordan, Andre Drummond, etc., some of the greatest centers of all time and/or some of the greatest athletic freaks at that position all time. And even then, some of those names, at that age, aren't used to guarding guys who are shifty and have advanced moves on the perimeter. Hell, Aaron Gordon is what, 6'9, and had all sorts of questions about his shot/offense at two positions where shooting has become supreme, and he went 4th overall. And we all know about his defense, and he's an athletic freak and now jumping over mascots in dunk contests, he too is a special player.

Yup, that was exactly the point I was making. Even some of the guys you listed (McGee, Dwight, Drummond) can't do what WCS can on the perimeter. He is really one of a kind.

If you look at his numbers per 40 minutes, they match up almost identically to Andrew Bogut's, who was a #1 pick. Bogut also played for Utah when they were in the Mountain West, so Poeltl is doing his damage against much better competition. Poeltl is a better defender and has much better athleticism than Bogut did. Bogut has longer arms and from what I remember, a more refined low post game on offense at the same stage. The question on Poeltl was always about his offense, and I would say he has done more than just a good job answering his critics on that. Worst case scenario, Poeltl is a solid 7 footer who will give you good defense, rebounding and points around the rim off the bench. I think he will be an NBA starter in a few years, and he has the ability to be more than just that. Especially if he improves his shooting and can be a pick and pop guy. He improved his foul shooting from 44% to 68% in one year so there is promise there. A lot of people are throwing out the Pau Gasol comps/ceiling, just saying. That's gotta mean a top 8 pick, and he could go somewhere in that 4-6 range, depending on how the draft lottery shakes out.

dcZONAfan wrote: Yup, that was exactly the point I was making. Even some of the guys you listed (McGee, Dwight, Drummond) can't do what WCS can on the perimeter. He is really one of a kind.

He apparently had a 10.22 second lane agility drill time during a pro day (he skipped the competition portion of the combine). For the sake of comparison: Levine has the best in 2014 with 10.42, no other player (guard-center) was under 10.5. Devin Booker was the only one in 2015 who had a sub 10.5 time. Rondae had a 10.51 and Gordon 10.81 those years.

Interested to see Trier's lane agility drill time. One of the best parts of his game is that ability to move side-to-side in traffic.

Doubt its anything impressive to be honest. He has advanced moves but he isnt explosive. Just crafty with a lot on his back pocket, reminds me of a shorter and less physical Paul Pierce

rgdeuce wrote:Doubt its anything impressive to be honest. He has advanced moves but he isnt explosive. Just crafty with a lot on his back pocket, reminds me of a shorter and less physical Paul Pierce

Interesting comparison. I think Zo is a bigger threat taking the ball to the basket and not as good a shooter, but otherwise I agree. Although it is tough to remember Pierce early in his career.

I love Trier, but I don't see the NBA future many here do, and I would e shocked if he leaves after this season, because I do not see him going in the first round. I think he'll have a nice career in the NBA, but much more journeyman than NBA star.

Hope you are right Harvey......would love to see a Sophomore Zo! Would be a huge benefit to the team.

Damn, wish the NBA would pull their heads out of their butts and implement a minimum 2 years in college or 20 year old requirement.....would benefit both the NCAA and the NBA IMHO.

Having said this, I'll really enjoy watching Rabb & Brown bolt for the NBA this year .

Harvey, Pierce is my favorite player of all time but id be lying if I said I remembered anything about him as a college freshman But I certainly remember Pierce when he was Trier's age. Im looking at Zo's freshman numbers compared to Pierce's junior year and its funny how similar they are. Pierce shot roughly 3% better from the floor. Their 2p% is identical; after today's 2-7 night from 3, their 3pt% is probably identical. Pierce got to the foul line just .4% more than Trier does, but attempted five shots more per night. Trier is clearly more assertive with his driving but both are guys who get to the line.

i think you are right though, Trier wants to put the ball on the floor and drive, and Pierce had that same ability, but was a bit less assertive with it. Hes always been a take what they give me guy. Despite the similarities in shooting numbers, I still remember Pierce being a better shooter. But Trier had a slow start, plus he was injured and hs since been trying to find what he had going pre-injury. If you remember what he had going on for those 7 or 8 games before he got hurt, he may have an argument. Trier does have a pretty shot, he's got to quicken the release a bit though.

But total complete games, get to the hoop, get to the line, nice midrange and pull up game, and can knock down the three. And doing it without explosion, but being deceptively quick or sneaky athletic, crafty and creative with the ball, great ballhandling and footwork. Both have that offensive "instinct," cant think of a better word but thats the best I can describe it. Not sure I wanted to comp Trier to Pierce, I shoulda been more careful, but I see a lot of Pierce's game in him if that makes sense. Pierce was a special player, maybe the most underrated or underappreciated of his era. I do see Trier in the NBA, but an offense off the bench type of guy

What's the latest thought on Zo going Pro after this year? He doesn't appear on any of the mock ups I've seen lately......surely he needs another year and won't pull a Grant Jerrett dumbass move???

I doubt it. I think his Mom likes him in school but I could be wrong.

He is definitely going to put himself out there for feedback. His age is probably a concern for him. His draft position will drop if he leaves after his sophomore year because of that loaded class. So then he probably stays til his junior year, and he will be 22 then. Is that a huge deal to him and NBA teams?

rgdeuce wrote:He is definitely going to put himself out there for feedback. His age is probably a concern for him. His draft position will drop if he leaves after his sophomore year because of that loaded class. So then he probably stays til his junior year, and he will be 22 then. Is that a huge deal to him and NBA teams?

Hope you're right....having Zo for 2 more years would be awesome! In any case, just hope he makes the right decision for his development as a player.

6'4" without shoes, 6'6" wingspan, that hurts in any class. That's almost Nick Johnson short.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/All ... ier-70279/" target="_blank

#36 in 2017.

He's gonna need us to go deep in the tourney, with him leading the way

rgdeuce wrote:Harvey, Pierce is my favorite player of all time but id be lying if I said I remembered anything about him as a college freshman But I certainly remember Pierce when he was Trier's age. Im looking at Zo's freshman numbers compared to Pierce's junior year and its funny how similar they are. Pierce shot roughly 3% better from the floor. Their 2p% is identical; after today's 2-7 night from 3, their 3pt% is probably identical. Pierce got to the foul line just .4% more than Trier does, but attempted five shots more per night. Trier is clearly more assertive with his driving but both are guys who get to the line.

i think you are right though, Trier wants to put the ball on the floor and drive, and Pierce had that same ability, but was a bit less assertive with it. Hes always been a take what they give me guy. Despite the similarities in shooting numbers, I still remember Pierce being a better shooter. But Trier had a slow start, plus he was injured and hs since been trying to find what he had going pre-injury. If you remember what he had going on for those 7 or 8 games before he got hurt, he may have an argument. Trier does have a pretty shot, he's got to quicken the release a bit though.

But total complete games, get to the hoop, get to the line, nice midrange and pull up game, and can knock down the three. And doing it without explosion, but being deceptively quick or sneaky athletic, crafty and creative with the ball, great ballhandling and footwork. Both have that offensive "instinct," cant think of a better word but thats the best I can describe it. Not sure I wanted to comp Trier to Pierce, I shoulda been more careful, but I see a lot of Pierce's game in him if that makes sense. Pierce was a special player, maybe the most underrated or underappreciated of his era. I do see Trier in the NBA, but an offense off the bench type of guy

A short Pierce is a good comparison. When Pierce was younger, he was a good, not great athlete, which is pretty comparable to Zo.

Zo's size is the issue. Pierce has him by 3-4 inches, and that matters a lot in terms of his NBA projection. Allonzo isn't the explosive athlete either, so his next level is all about his ability to maximize every bit of his physical assets.

I'm expecting a nice Las Vegas trip for Mr. Trier...

Think that was his mom on kiss cam last game. The camera man quickly switched to someone else. Someone was probably like, No that's Trier's mom (!) switch dude. I too expect a nice Vegas trip.

FightWildcatsFight wrote:

Thats too bad.

Which explains why we're getting KS and RA. Bummer, if true.

So does this mean he has one foot out the door heading into the tournament? I guess we will see on Thursday.

So is Trier a straight NBA starter/bench player or is he going to spend time in the d league?

And is the D league better at preparing players than college?

FightWildcatsFight wrote:

So are the sources aware he is listed at #61 by the site that they provided the info to?

Isn't there the new rule where you can enter the draft but still come back if you don't get a good evaluation? I don't know why he wouldn't want to see where he stands.

AZCatGirl wrote:Isn't there the new rule where you can enter the draft but still come back if you don't get a good evaluation? I don't know why he wouldn't want to see where he stands.

My thoughts too.

AZCatGirl wrote:Isn't there the new rule where you can enter the draft but still come back if you don't get a good evaluation? I don't know why he wouldn't want to see where he stands.

Yes, that's what Chase did after his Sophomore year.

One more year almost never benefits a player who is already older than his class and when the next year's draft is stacked.

Go, Zo, go...

I can see scenarios where he comes back, but I think going now is a smart departure. He has multiple NBA skills, and those he has are very good. He's lacking ideal size, athleticism, but you can't tell me a worker like him with an efficiency rating like his in an injury year as a freshman won't win a few smart GMs over. Lots of successful undersized 2s in the NBA.

I get the argument for Zo leaving, but doesn't he feel a little more marginal than some of our other one and done guys lately? He's no AG or SJ. But he's probably ahead of where Grant Jerrett was.

JMarkJohns wrote:One more year almost never benefits a player who is already older than his class and when the next year's draft is stacked.

Go, Zo, go...

I can see scenarios where he comes back, but I think going now is a smart departure. He has multiple NBA skills, and those he has are very good. He's lacking ideal size, athleticism, but you can't tell me a worker like him with an efficiency rating like his in an injury year as a freshman won't win a few smart GMs over. Lots of successful undersized 2s in the NBA.

Then stay 3 years. Him leaving would be almost as big of a joke as Nick Johnson leaving after 3. I hope he gets a guaranteed contract, but damn it's not like he's well positioned to be drafted in a good spot in this draft to do so. Really don't see the reason he should go, although he should absolutely try out and utilize the new rules for sure.

We have the worst luck w EEs.

Teams like Duke and Kentucky and Oklahoma and Kansas and even the Probidences and Novas and UVA and Mich St and Louisville of the world have fringe lotto - 1st round locks stay a year or two where we get multiple 2nd round kids bounce first change they get. And it never works out for them.

Didn't work for NJ, not BA , nor GJ. And although I think AT has a slightly better chance than them ..... He's gonna find it hard to finish over bigs in the NBA.

FightWildcatsFight wrote:

Recruiting is such an interesting game right now. This kind of thing above is why I'm kinda theoretically souring on recruiting guys ranked 15-35 or so in any particular class.

PennZona20 wrote:We have the worst luck w EEs.

Teams like Duke and Kentucky and Oklahoma and Kansas and even the Probidences and Novas and UVA and Mich St and Louisville of the world have fringe lotto - 1st round locks stay a year or two where we get multiple 2nd round kids bounce first change they get. And it never works out for them.

Didn't work for NJ, not BA , nor GJ. And although I think AT has a slightly better chance than them ..... He's gonna find it hard to finish over bigs in the NBA.

Amen.

JMarkJohns wrote:One more year almost never benefits a player who is already older than his class and when the next year's draft is stacked.

Go, Zo, go...

I can see scenarios where he comes back, but I think going now is a smart departure. He has multiple NBA skills, and those he has are very good. He's lacking ideal size, athleticism, but you can't tell me a worker like him with an efficiency rating like his in an injury year as a freshman won't win a few smart GMs over. Lots of successful undersized 2s in the NBA.

Your points, as usual, are well-taken JMJ.

But at the same time, there is nothing that is mature about those aspects of his game.

Sure, he's shown them in flashes every game, but we can't count on them from night to night yet. His game isn't rounded out well at all.

Maybe he'll work that out, but why can't he just as well work it out on this level? Especially since he won't have any guaranteed contract or any guarantee of a prior relationship with his next coach?

Trier shouldn't underestimate what Miller being his U19 coach has brought to his game at Arizona. He goes league, that's all on him to continue.

This is so totally the wrong time to be talking about this. If Trier has the intentions of testing the waters, great, but it wasn't even leaked that Jerrett was gone until after the tournament--and he was a worse prospect.

Cats have a game to play Thursday, but instead, the storyline locally is going to be at least half about Trier leaving now. Totally the wrong timing for such a distraction.

Yeah the timing of this is pure stupid.

Why are we putting stock in a draft express projection article that Pascoe picked up and tweeted.

Zo will be playing against some higher rated draft picks in almost each game. That in itself should help him decide if he is ready.

That along with KT going home might propel us on a decent tourney run. Sit back and let's enjoy whatever we get. We were a 6 seed in Tarc's first year here and it ended in the sweet 16.

I agree the timing sucks but no one who has been following this thread should be surprised by this decision. JMJ & TucsonClip have laid out all the reasons why Zo was most likely gone after this year. It was 1 or 3 years for Zo. With Rawle & KS coming and maybe even Ferguson, you knew that Zo was probably gone. Again, the timing sucks for sure. Hope everyone is ready on Thursday to kick some ass.

Not at all surprising. He hasn't spent two years in one place since grade school.

If he can get a guaranteed first round pick he should go. There are reasons to stay. Mainly he would receive far more personal attention to work on his game. In the league you don't get much time to practice other than to prepare for the next game.

Some want him to stay for selfish reasons, mainly because he would make the Cats a better team next year. But he should only do what is best for him. That is what I would expect from any college player.

Catintheheat wrote:If he can get a guaranteed first round pick he should go. There are reasons to stay. Mainly he would receive far more personal attention to work on his game. In the league you don't get much time to practice other than to prepare for the next game.

Some want him to stay for selfish reasons, mainly because he would make the Cats a better team next year. But he should only do what is best for him. That is what I would expect from any college player.

Huge Zo, and Momma Zo fan here,

Agreed on the above post, but from what I've heard and seen he isn't close to being a guaranteed 1st round and seems to definitely need more development.....which I think he'd get more of under Miller than as a journeyman in the D-Leagues.....Unless he really hates school, I think he's much better served getting more of an education, both on the court and in the classroom......would be sad to see him pull a dumbass Grant Jerrett maneuver.

Would love to see him drafted in the first round someday but that ain't happening this year IMHO.....even with a good tourney showing (which is likely ONLY two games this year ) am I wrong?

Could be a great for cats fans but instead would rather be a forgotten member during a brief pit stop.

KaibabKat wrote:Not at all surprising. He hasn't spent two years in one place since grade school.

Yup, it would be more surprising if he comes back. He seems ideally suited to play the international game, as it is very easy to go from country to country.

CalStateTempe wrote:Could be a great for cats fans but instead would rather be a forgotten member during a brief pit stop.

It is a shame we didn't have a better team this year to put around him. At least he had more to work with than Bayless did.

This is a tough one. In normal years, I'd say Trier should stay and develop his game a bit. However, with this year's draft being reasonably light, and next year's so deep, it wouldn't surprise me to seem him bolt earlier than he should, and quite frankly it'd be for better reasons than Jerrett had. Trier will get paid a lot of money to play basketball somewhere. My gut tells me if he wants that to be in the NBA he'd be better off staying for a couple more years.