Bear Down Wildcats

legallykenny wrote:

Merkin wrote:I don't remember any UA player ever missing 17 shots.

Arenas had pretty horrific games against Wisky and Duke in the tournament, but I don't think was quite that bad.

Dickerson and Bibby against Utah were close.

JG definitely shot us out of games his senior year.

Steve Kerr was 2-13 vs Oklahoma in the 1988 FF; 2-12 from three....

legallykenny wrote:JG definitely shot us out of games his senior year.

Really surprised his jersey was retired, but back when the UA rules were really difficult to have them hang having to be a NPOY. Think JG's were:
1. Freshman of the year
2. Best player under 6'

Even Kerr's jersey retirement was a bit flaky, most inspirational or something when his father was killed. Although Kerr set a NCAA record that will never be broken, and had a very good NBA career for being probably the most unathletic guard in the league.

Seems we had issues when Zaga went small and they like Baylor seemed to run two at Zeke (he got his points off the glass ans at the line mostly) and concentrated on Nico while saying if the other guys can beat us, so be it.

Seems like that is the playbook to slow us down

azcat49 wrote:Seems we had issues when Zaga went small and they like Baylor seemed to run two at Zeke (he got his points off the glass ans at the line mostly) and concentrated on Nico while saying if the other guys can beat us, so be it.

Seems like that is the playbook to slow us down

That jibes with what I saw, but the other ingredient was that Green was so off, too. Nico at 3-20 and an ineffective Green is a lot to hope for if you're playing Arizona.

Nico shot awfully, but he did have 10 assists to 3 turnovers. At least 2 of the TO's were bad.

He's still in the first half of his freshman year. Anything close to a normal shooting game from him and we were in the game and possibly winning. You can still see how good his floor game is with the assists.

He's still very good and I'm still very optimistic.

problem is in the two games where we played the highest talent the team has shot very poorly from the outside. Josh Green is an average shooter at best and Smith is a conundrum at best. Baker seems to have lost his shot and Hazzard doesn't get enough minutes to find his rhythm (I actually think he is a=our best shooter and should get more of Smiths minutes).

Nico needs to probe and dish when he is off and guys need to realize they all can't be the guy who will bury the next shot. I know its fun and exciting to watch them go off on an Omaha or other dreg team but this looks like a team that might be 11-7 at best in conference with these uneven performances

Brian Jeffries said Nico went over to RJ after the game at 10:45PM and was shooting

Jefe wrote:Brian Jeffries said Nico went over to RJ after the game at 10:45PM and was shooting

There were several tweets that night showing Nico heading to workout. Kid cares.

Looking forward to seeing how he bounces back these next couple weeks.

baycat93 wrote:

Jefe wrote:Brian Jeffries said Nico went over to RJ after the game at 10:45PM and was shooting

There were several tweets that night showing Nico heading to workout. Kid cares.

Looking forward to seeing how he bounces back these next couple weeks.

That's the thing. He's had off games, but he's still the top ten rated recruit, top ten NBA draft pick and dude who torched Illinois.

Our freshmen seem invested in the process. Hopefully fans are the same.

Just wonder about his back as well

I think in 2003 JG shot 1-20 v UCLA in the Pac Tourney. It was a loss

The guy's a projected top 10 pick. Of course we're losing him. It would be surprising as well if Josh or Zeke returned.

Obviously gone but I cant see him playing against the NBAs best PGs next year. Come back and share PG duties with Akinjo. We wont mind

TJ proved you can make it in the NBA with a negative wingspan, and Nico is more athletic.

Jefe wrote:Obviously gone but I cant see him playing against the NBAs best PGs next year. Come back and share PG duties with Akinjo. We wont mind

Nico's easily a top ten guy. His 3 point percentage has come down, and I hope to see him bust out of that slump, but his advanced stats are sky high.

His things are lowering TO's and making J's. If he does that, he's a dominator. He compares favorably to guys like Collin Sexton and De'Aaron Fox, who have gone top ten.

https://www3.forbes.com/business/update ... ss-vue/28/" target="_blank

Nico projected as the 4th overall pick.

Merkin wrote:

legallykenny wrote:JG definitely shot us out of games his senior year.

Really surprised his jersey was retired, but back when the UA rules were really difficult to have them hang having to be a NPOY. Think JG's were:
1. Freshman of the year
2. Best player under 6'

Even Kerr's jersey retirement was a bit flaky, most inspirational or something when his father was killed. Although Kerr set a NCAA record that will never be broken, and had a very good NBA career for being probably the most unathletic guard in the league.

Kerr was comeback player of the year nationally after he blew out his knee during the World Championships

TheCat wrote:

Merkin wrote:

legallykenny wrote:JG definitely shot us out of games his senior year.

Really surprised his jersey was retired, but back when the UA rules were really difficult to have them hang having to be a NPOY. Think JG's were:
1. Freshman of the year
2. Best player under 6'

Even Kerr's jersey retirement was a bit flaky, most inspirational or something when his father was killed. Although Kerr set a NCAA record that will never be broken, and had a very good NBA career for being probably the most unathletic guard in the league.

Kerr was comeback player of the year nationally after he blew out his knee during the World Championships

Courageous Athlete of America (1986) per https://arizonawildcats.com/sports/2013 ... basketball" target="_blank

http://www.sportswriters.net/usbwa/awards/courageous/" target="_blank

1988: Steve Kerr
Senior guard at the University of Arizona who played a key role on the Wildcats' Final Four team. He overcame the tragic assassination of his father during his college career.

Beachcat97 wrote:https://www3.forbes.com/business/update ... ss-vue/28/

Nico projected as the 4th overall pick.

That article is dated DECEMBER 15, 2019. I suspect the ratings have changed since then.

dmjcat wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:https://www3.forbes.com/business/update ... ss-vue/28/

Nico projected as the 4th overall pick.

That article is dated DECEMBER 15, 2019. I suspect the ratings have changed since then.

Good point. Didn’t catch that. Still, it’s a weak draft, and I’m sure it’s going to help our guys who declare.

Coming back next year would be a huge benefit to Mannion but he has to do what he feels is best.

Of the top 20 paid players in the NBA, 70% of them played in college for two or three years.

1-Steph Curry-3 years in college
2-Chris Paul-2 years in college
3-Russell Westbrook-2 years in college
4-John Wall-1 year in college
5-James Harden-2 years in college
6-Comrade LeBron James- no college experience
7-Kevin Durant-1 year in college
8-Kemba Walker-3 years in college
9-Blake Griffin-2 years in college
10-Kyle Lowry-2 years in college
11-Paul George-2 years in college
12-Klay Thompson-3 years in college
13-Jimmy Butler-3 years in college
14-Kawhi Leonard-2 years in college
15-Gordon Hayward-2 years in college
16-Mike Connley-1 year in college
17-Kyrie Irving-1 year in college
18-Tobias Harris-1 year in college
19-Chris Middleton-3 years in college
20-Paul Millsap-3 years in college

Where was Marcus Howard projected to go last year? Obi toppin is a red shirt soph. Myles Powell is a senior. These are players that stuck around and improved their draft stock.

PHXCATS wrote:1-Steph Curry-3 years in college
2-Chris Paul-2 years in college
3-Russell Westbrook-2 years in college
4-John Wall-1 year in college
5-James Harden-2 years in college
6-Comrade LeBron James- no college experience
7-Kevin Durant-1 year in college
8-Kemba Walker-3 years in college
9-Blake Griffin-2 years in college
10-Kyle Lowry-2 years in college
11-Paul George-2 years in college
12-Klay Thompson-3 years in college
13-Jimmy Butler-3 years in college
14-Kawhi Leonard-2 years in college
15-Gordon Hayward-2 years in college
16-Mike Connley-1 year in college
17-Kyrie Irving-1 year in college
18-Tobias Harris-1 year in college
19-Chris Middleton-3 years in college
20-Paul Millsap-3 years in college

This is actually a really telling stat. Everybody wants to get that clock started early so they can get to max contract eligibility a year earlier. But the fact is you need to be ready to get minutes right away and already be NBA developed by the time u hit the league running if you want to actually get that max contract where the real money is at. So many kids don’t see the long game where one more year of being “broke” will actually make you tens of millions more down the road. Obviously there are some transcendent talents that are outliers but i think the point is valid.

PennZona20 wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:1-Steph Curry-3 years in college
2-Chris Paul-2 years in college
3-Russell Westbrook-2 years in college
4-John Wall-1 year in college
5-James Harden-2 years in college
6-Comrade LeBron James- no college experience
7-Kevin Durant-1 year in college
8-Kemba Walker-3 years in college
9-Blake Griffin-2 years in college
10-Kyle Lowry-2 years in college
11-Paul George-2 years in college
12-Klay Thompson-3 years in college
13-Jimmy Butler-3 years in college
14-Kawhi Leonard-2 years in college
15-Gordon Hayward-2 years in college
16-Mike Connley-1 year in college
17-Kyrie Irving-1 year in college
18-Tobias Harris-1 year in college
19-Chris Middleton-3 years in college
20-Paul Millsap-3 years in college

This is actually a really telling stat. Everybody wants to get that clock started early so they can get to max contract eligibility a year earlier. But the fact is you need to be ready to get minutes right away and already be NBA developed by the time u hit the league running if you want to actually get that max contract where the real money is at. So many kids don’t see the long game where one more year of being “broke” will actually make you tens of millions more down the road. Obviously there are some transcendent talents that are outliers but i think the point is valid.

The flip side of this has always been the risk of getting injured when you decide to stay that extra year. If that happens you might get zilch.
Rule of thumb is if your a consensus lottery pick you don't take that chance.

Maybe I haven't seen all of the best players around the country this year but if he's a lottery pick now then it's got to be mostly due to his potential rather than this year's body of work which is good, but not off the charts.

I will not suck myself in to thinking of a second year of Nico at Arizona...sigh.

Same with players who stay a year too long, and end up falling out of the first round and therefore no guaranteed contract. Miles Simon comes to mind. Perhaps Nick Johnson too.

Conversely, those that left too early like Ashley, Comanche and Jarrett, and are either out of ball or playing on some low level pro team overseas.

Don’t they have insurance policies covering injuries for potential first-rounders?

Guys, Nico is leaving after this season. Sean's already told us that.

It's compelling that a correlation may exist between staying in school longer than a single season and higher earnings down the road, and any potential OADer would be wise to at least look at that. But it seems that Nico always intended to play just one season of college ball.

Beachcat97 wrote:Guys, Nico is leaving after this season. Sean's already told us that.

It's compelling that a correlation may exist between staying in school longer than a single season and higher earnings down the road, and any potential OADer would be wise to at least look at that. But it seems that Nico always intended to play just one season of college ball.

You realize that saying it would benefit him to stay is not equal to saying he will stay?

PHXCATS wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:Guys, Nico is leaving after this season. Sean's already told us that.

It's compelling that a correlation may exist between staying in school longer than a single season and higher earnings down the road, and any potential OADer would be wise to at least look at that. But it seems that Nico always intended to play just one season of college ball.

You realize that saying it would benefit him to stay is not equal to saying he will stay?

Lol...no, not until you pointed that out. These points of clarification are a breath of fresh air.

Looking forward to your next game-changing insight

Oh, and by the way, saying it would benefit us all to smoke lots of weed today is not equal to saying we will.

Merkin wrote:

TheCat wrote:

Merkin wrote:

legallykenny wrote:JG definitely shot us out of games his senior year.

Really surprised his jersey was retired, but back when the UA rules were really difficult to have them hang having to be a NPOY. Think JG's were:
1. Freshman of the year
2. Best player under 6'

Even Kerr's jersey retirement was a bit flaky, most inspirational or something when his father was killed. Although Kerr set a NCAA record that will never be broken, and had a very good NBA career for being probably the most unathletic guard in the league.

Kerr was comeback player of the year nationally after he blew out his knee during the World Championships

Courageous Athlete of America (1986) per

https://arizonawildcats.com/sports/2013 ... basketball" target="_blank

http://www.sportswriters.net/usbwa/awards/courageous/" target="_blank

1988: Steve Kerr
Senior guard at the University of Arizona who played a key role on the Wildcats' Final Four team. He overcame the tragic assassination of his father during his college career.

Absolutely right.... "Steve Kerr is eligible for jersey retirement because he won the "most courageous athlete" award. There are a ton of reasons Steve Kerr's jersey should be retired, including the adversity he had to overcome while in college"

We should all admit the proper truth: if none of us picks Nico in RAP he will come roaring out of his slump and kill it for the rest of the conference season.

has not been playing well

97cats wrote:has not been playing well

Has tired legs.

TheCat wrote: Absolutely right.... "Steve Kerr is eligible for jersey retirement because he won the "most courageous athlete" award. There are a ton of reasons Steve Kerr's jersey should be retired, including the adversity he had to overcome while in college"

Most certainly. I was just complaining about the AD's policy on jersey retirement. Jason Gardner, really? Over Miles Simon who was MOP in 1997! Gardner was FOY, and best player under 6' and no one is saying he is one of the best PGs in UA history and really never developed over his FOY season.

Kerr also set a 3 point shooting record that will never be broken.

Chicat wrote:

97cats wrote:has not been playing well

Has tired legs.

I'm sure his legs won't be as tired in the 82-game grind of the NBA, and the open floor will show off his pro potential. But as a college guard, he fooled me into hoping for more in the Illinois game.

You know who didn't get tired legs, 5th year senior TJ McConnell. Same with upperclassman Jason Gardner.

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/preview?gameId=400519873" target="_blank

According to Stats LLC, Arizona point guard T.J. McConnell ran 2.69 miles in 39 minutes of action Friday, more than half a mile more than any of his teammates. Jabari Parker (2.62) and Rodney Hood (2.55) covered the most ground for Duke, each playing 38 minutes. During live ball action Friday, T.J. McConnell's average speed on the offensive end was 4.9 MPH, highest among players who saw at least five minutes of action. Duke point guard Quinn Cook's average speed on the offensive end was 4.4 MPH.[/quote]

TJ's not like the others. Special player. Special person.

Beachcat97 wrote:TJ's not like the others. Special player. Special person.

Very true. The point I was trying to make (not very successfully anyway) was that TJ and JG were men. Nico is still a teenager and his body still needs to get into adult shape.

Although fellow teenager Josh Green sure seems to have an adult body.

But as much ball as AAU players play now, all year round with constant games, it is really surprising to see Nico with tired legs.

Merkin wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:TJ's not like the others. Special player. Special person.

Very true. The point I was trying to make (not very successfully anyway) was that TJ and JG were men. Nico is still a teenager and his body still needs to get into adult shape.

Although fellow teenager Josh Green sure seems to have an adult body.

But as much ball as AAU players play now, all year round with constant games, it is really surprising to see Nico with tired legs.

An AAU game is way different from a college game (or practice). Way more intense and way more physical.

Hopefully Nico will get a second wind. In our worst games -- we've shot the ball horribly. I think that's an adjustment to the more physical nature of college ball. We're certainly due to have some hot shooting nights.

I think you guys are right on the money about Nico's immaturity. He's obviously got tons of natural talent, and his shot will become more consistent as he learns to trust himself more. But dude just looks like an excited kid out there a lot of the time. Like, he's so quick and can create his own shot, but sometimes it's at the wrong time and then we're handing the other team an easy rebound and a fast break the other way.

I'm not sure we'll get to see Nico make a significant leap in maturity/poise/decision-making while he's at AZ, but I do think he'll become a decent pro. Dude has game.

Kid needs to learn a jump stop...or euro step.

Pretty obvious teams are playing him to jump and shoot/pass. Make an adjustment, young fella.

Statfreak77 wrote:Kid needs to learn a jump stop...or euro step.

Pretty obvious teams are playing him to jump and shoot/pass. Make an adjustment, young fella.

I’ve been saying this for years. Somebody needs to introduce today’s players to the legendary jump stop of Jud Buechler. Sean Elliot wasn’t half bad at it either. That move was deadly and would eliminate all these stupid offensive fouls he’s getting.

Way to much in love with the floater

Longhorned wrote:

Chicat wrote:

97cats wrote:has not been playing well

Has tired legs.

I'm sure his legs won't be as tired in the 82-game grind of the NBA, and the open floor will show off his pro potential. But as a college guard, he fooled me into hoping for more in the Illinois game.

It's a mix of things. Tired legs...somewhat of a misnomer, but he has had multiple tweaks to hip and legs, and that impacts how you work your legs and what muscles get fatigued quicker. It's also a lot more work, but he has been playing and working out year round for a long time. I'd say the bumps and bruises and tweaks are more impactful. He is supposed to be a high school senior.

He is also clearly pressing, doing something that I never expected to see from him...over-penetration. When he is calm and hitting shots, you see those multiple gears on drives, and his stop on a dime mid range and floater game. He is drifting on the floater into defenders. His awareness of passing lanes is advanced, but his offense is what opens those lanes. When defenders back off, he is trying to force things. He has been pre-determining what he wants to do rather than taking what is given, and that shows in his drives where he jumps to pass and throws the ball away or charges. He really just needs to slow down, but that is hard to get a young player to do. He'll get through this...but I do wonder if the jump shot being off is also related to his legs, though his elevation and ability to shoot at the top of his jump are still evident.

Nico doesn't take many easy shots, so his shooting numbers and "slump" (confidence related?) do not come as a surprise. Feels like 90% of his field goal attempts are 26-foot jumpshots and running floaters.

rgdeuce wrote:Nico doesn't take many easy shots, so his shooting numbers and "slump" (confidence related?) do not come as a surprise. Feels like 90% of his field goal attempts are 26-foot jumpshots and running floaters.

I think that's spot-on, zg. And for a player as quick, athletic and wily as Nico, I'd like to see him attack the rim a little more. He could draw fouls, but he tends to settle for those floaters and long jumpers.

The kid has loads of talent, and still has shown glimpses of dynamic playmaking, but he looks like he needs another year of college. However, with the system in place, he will likely leave if he is guaranteed to be a top-fifteen pick, even though he isn't ready. Some guys are clearly ready to play at the next level out of high school, but most are not, and most are not after one year of college, but that is the system in place.

Beachcat97 wrote:I think that's spot-on, zg. And for a player as quick, athletic and wily as Nico, I'd like to see him attack the rim a little more. He could draw fouls, but he tends to settle for those floaters and long jumpers.

One of my biggest complaints is the lack of FTs Nico gets. For someone that quick, who drives a lot, with good handles, he does not do well in drawing fouls. Outside of the USC anomaly where he shot 18 FTs, in the last 15 games he has not shot more that 6 FTs, and has 4 games with no FT attempts. He actually does better in drawing fouls on 3 PT shots than he does driving it seems.