Tommy Lloyd

[TheCat]

You’re annoying at how much you’re overthinking things everyone else understood and even argued for.

I’m not wrong. It was abundantly clear.

You’re just incapable of understanding independent of semantics.

I understand math and the fact that what you said about transfers is wrong (they will dry up).

Just be careful what you say when it is ridiculous.

[JMarkJohns]

I'm angry and annoyed at lots of shit these days.

Tommy Lloyd and the AZ Wildcats are way the fuck down on that list though.

That’s fair. Within the realm that Arizona sports has the capacity to anger or excite…

I can’t even tell you what is happening to the worlds I know and the people they inhabit. I know 5 people fired, 3 from the feds, 1 from her grant-funded research position, and my sister who has been managing vehicle parts and purchases for 4 years now, let go, no warning, the Monday the tariffs were set to go into effect because they anticipated needing to cut costs with a downturn.

And that’s just the professional side. It hurts worse when we get into the personal parts.

I had to begin my semester telling first generation college students of farm workers that I would protect them from any potential raids. Students cried. Asked questions about their family.

So, yeah, I get it.

From a standpoint of Arizona Basketball is more than just a distraction, we should all be annoyed at where recruiting has fallen to.

But point taken on the hyperbole.

[JMarkJohns]

You’re annoying at how much you’re overthinking things everyone else understood and even argued for.

I’m not wrong. It was abundantly clear.

You’re just incapable of understanding independent of semantics.

I understand math and the fact that what you said about transfers is wrong (they will dry up).
And then you say that COVID transfers have been more impactful. Well I guess you can say that. I can't refute that I can only point out the facts that many of the graduate transfers were not picked up by anyone and that approximately 8% stayed where they were. Not sure where you are getting your COVID being impactful stats from but I have not seen them. NCAA doesn't track them but someone might.

Just be careful what you say when it is ridiculous.

Nothing you have said disproves a single goddamned thing I said, explained, etc. Everyone but your head up the ass of semantics self understood if the Covid seniors are gone, immediate impact talent takes a massive hit, meaning, what has been middle of the pack talent that Tommy has afforded and recruited well, becomes prioritized talent and Tommy gets bullied by NIL, slow-plays recruitments, and generally struggles to secure his first wave of options.

This is historical.

10 people understood it. You galloping in on a high horse only to beat that horse to death for something as silly as “yeah but not precisely” is a you problem. I don’t deal with other people’s problems. Either wise up to tone mood vibes of a post or become a copy editor to fulfill the need for excessive correction.

[Chicat]

The big thing is not needing 3 transfers to come in and give us 20+ minutes per game. That need can lead to desperation as we see with having to get Townsend and ADO just to get to an 8-deep. I like them just fine… on their old teams. But they aren’t Arizona/Big12 quality and it sucks because I know they are out there giving it their best, but they aren’t Arizona good and being put in tough situations where they have to be the players they definitely are not.

[JMarkJohns]

The big thing is not needing 3 transfers to come in and give us 20+ minutes per game. That need can lead to desperation as we see with having to get Townsend and ADO just to get to an 8-deep. I like them just fine… on their old teams. But they aren’t Arizona/Big12 quality and it sucks because I know they are out there giving it their best, but they aren’t Arizona good and being put in tough situations where they have to be the players they definitely are not.

Arizona has brought in 8 Transfers, half as graduate/senior year the last three seasons.

Same classes, Arizona has brought in 4 domestic preps. Kylan, KJ, Carter, Stephen.

This cannot continue. But a loss of Burries and or Peat for 2025 and Arizona is on pace to settle for a single player class of Aristode, but likely needing to fill 3 roster spots, maybe 4 if a Big transfers or Carter goes Pro.

Which means another offseason doubling down on Transfers in a weakened class, and with just 4 total offers to the class of 2026 entering their senior year.

This is not sustainable. And I’ve said it for 2 years.

[TucsonClip]

TucsonClip, not sure he posts here as much as he used, has used what San Diego State is doing as an example of what Arizona should be doing in evals, who and how many and when, and priority, and development.

Given they have overachieved in March where Tommy has underachieved, and given we recruited one of their types to maximize in our system, yeah, I’d say he’s on to something.

Yeah, just getting around to this, but the fact SDSU has out evaluated UA for some many guys who would have been good fits for Miller, and now Lloyd, is a bit baffling to me. I know Miller killed the recruiting trail for a while, and Lloyd is a "developer" of talent. But all these dudes could easily have played here:

Here was my post:

I don't want either to leave SDSU, but two guys id keep an eye on are Miles Byrd (former fringe Miller recruit) and Magoon Gwath

I'll tell ya what, if we could find the gem developmental guys SDSU has for a decade, id be a happy man.

Miller should have been recruiting SDSU style players, and Lloyd should be getting the Byrds, Gwath, Compton's to develop.

Get me Burries and Peat, or give me Byrd and maybe Gwath ... Or death.

Miles Byrd
Magoon Gwath
Pharaoh Compton
Keshad Johnson
Lamont Butler
Nathan Mensa
Adam Seiko
Jordan Schakel
Jalen McDaniels
Malik Pope

Like how the F is SDSU out evaluating and developing us for guys that are perfect for Miller, and even Lloyd in many cases?

You mix in a 5* like Bryant, a transfer like Bradley and one or two of those dudes to develop every year, and we're sitting pretty.

My overall point being, we need to land HS recruits who, by year 2, can be rotation players and continue developing. No more patching holes with mid major transfers to play major roles, taking the fringe overseas recruit and ignoring the dudes within 500 miles.

I am with you on the job SDSU has done and I know I have posted this a million times, but, especially prior to his recruiting going off the tracks, the last thing in the world Sean Miller wanted was developmental players.

Now, as to why Lloyd can't find better transfers in this era and what in the wide wide world of sports was going through his mind on ADO and Townsend, on that I have zero clue.

Byrd, Gwath and Compton. Those are the guys Lloyd needs to find in his HS classes. Superior upside compared to many of the guys we brought in, each with a unique skill set to play different roles, and even skill to fit Lloyd's scheme. All are dudes from CA, that we could have plucked, and offer a longer runway to build out your rotation for multiple years.

The staffs evals really need to get better, but not inking HS dudes who we can develop,.and defaulting for guys like Bal, Henderson, Boro, Martinez, ADO, Townsend, ect is silly.

[TheCat]

The big thing is not needing 3 transfers to come in and give us 20+ minutes per game. That need can lead to desperation as we see with having to get Townsend and ADO just to get to an 8-deep. I like them just fine… on their old teams. But they aren’t Arizona/Big12 quality and it sucks because I know they are out there giving it their best, but they aren’t Arizona good and being put in tough situations where they have to be the players they definitely are not.

Arizona has brought in 8 Transfers, half as graduate/senior year the last three seasons.

Same classes, Arizona has brought in 4 domestic preps. Kylan, KJ, Carter, Stephen.

This cannot continue. But a loss of Burries and or Peat for 2025 and Arizona is on pace to settle for a single player class of Aristode, but likely needing to fill 3 roster spots, maybe 4 if a Big transfers or Carter goes Pro.

Which means another offseason doubling down on Transfers in a weakened class, and with just 4 total offers to the class of 2026 entering their senior year.

This is not sustainable. And I’ve said it for 2 years.

Everyone seems to have a problem with transfers. I don't. I think they are a new way to acquire proven players. Not all will pan out but they are more reliable and more predictable in a lot of cases than freshman. So some of the teams we lost to and their number of transfers just in the last year:
KSU-7
WV-8
TexTech-4
Okla-6
UCLA-6
Houston is the exception as they only had 1 transfer.

If you look at scoring of freshman there are 5 in the top 50. 4 of the 5 are on losing teams with Flagg being the exception. Rutgers has 2 that are potential top 10 NBA draft choices.
There is one freshman in the top 50 in rebounding.
There are no freshman in the top 50 for 3 pt field goals made.

If you look at our own team we start at least 3 and usually 4 players that transferred in. Those didn't all come in the last year but it just shows how valuable they can be.

I think 3 is ideal for the number of freshman to bring in. Carter has been really good for a freshman and where he has really stood out to me is rebounding. His defense is not great but he is long and can block some shot. His shooting looks smooth but he can be on or off.

If I have time later I will look at teams considered a surprise and see how many transfers they have. I know Michigan brought in a bunch, Vandy, Missouri, Louisville and USC practically their whole team (not sure their record classifies as a surprise).

I think our problem could be players that transfer out as Tobe, Vas, Carter will be in huge demand.

[Chicat]

The big thing is not needing 3 transfers to come in and give us 20+ minutes per game. That need can lead to desperation as we see with having to get Townsend and ADO just to get to an 8-deep. I like them just fine… on their old teams. But they aren’t Arizona/Big12 quality and it sucks because I know they are out there giving it their best, but they aren’t Arizona good and being put in tough situations where they have to be the players they definitely are not.

Arizona has brought in 8 Transfers, half as graduate/senior year the last three seasons.

Same classes, Arizona has brought in 4 domestic preps. Kylan, KJ, Carter, Stephen.

This cannot continue. But a loss of Burries and or Peat for 2025 and Arizona is on pace to settle for a single player class of Aristode, but likely needing to fill 3 roster spots, maybe 4 if a Big transfers or Carter goes Pro.

Which means another offseason doubling down on Transfers in a weakened class, and with just 4 total offers to the class of 2026 entering their senior year.

This is not sustainable. And I’ve said it for 2 years.

Everyone seems to have a problem with transfers. I don't. I think they are a new way to acquire proven players. Not all will pan out but they are more reliable and more predictable in a lot of cases than freshman. So some of the teams we lost to and their number of transfers just in the last year:
KSU-7
WV-8
TexTech-4
Okla-6
UCLA-6
Houston is the exception as they only had 1 transfer.

Let’s look at their records…

KSU 13-13 (7-8)
WVU 15-10 (6-8)
TTU 20-6 (11-4)
OU 16-10 (3-10)
UCLA 19-8 (10-6)

Outside of TTU and UCLA that’s a whole lot of mediocrity. Just because they beat us doesn’t mean we should emulate them. Also, KSU & WVU went through recent coaching changes so obviously they are going to have more transfers than normal.

I have no problem with getting a transfer or two to round out your team but we shouldn’t be grabbing warm bodies like we just went through a coaching change and need enough guys to hold practice.

[azcat49]

You bring in freshman at our usual level and they are gone in a year or in Lloyd’s case, they have transferred (euro’s)

I am not sure what the answer is except I agree he needs to offer more players and get more athletic and surround those with guys that can be developed at the Big XII level. Keeping those guys might prove to be difficult though

[TheCat]

The big thing is not needing 3 transfers to come in and give us 20+ minutes per game. That need can lead to desperation as we see with having to get Townsend and ADO just to get to an 8-deep. I like them just fine… on their old teams. But they aren’t Arizona/Big12 quality and it sucks because I know they are out there giving it their best, but they aren’t Arizona good and being put in tough situations where they have to be the players they definitely are not.

Arizona has brought in 8 Transfers, half as graduate/senior year the last three seasons.

Same classes, Arizona has brought in 4 domestic preps. Kylan, KJ, Carter, Stephen.

This cannot continue. But a loss of Burries and or Peat for 2025 and Arizona is on pace to settle for a single player class of Aristode, but likely needing to fill 3 roster spots, maybe 4 if a Big transfers or Carter goes Pro.

Which means another offseason doubling down on Transfers in a weakened class, and with just 4 total offers to the class of 2026 entering their senior year.

This is not sustainable. And I’ve said it for 2 years.

Everyone seems to have a problem with transfers. I don't. I think they are a new way to acquire proven players. Not all will pan out but they are more reliable and more predictable in a lot of cases than freshman. So some of the teams we lost to and their number of transfers just in the last year:
KSU-7
WV-8
TexTech-4
Okla-6
UCLA-6
Houston is the exception as they only had 1 transfer.

Let’s look at their records…

KSU 13-13 (7-8)
WVU 15-10 (6-8)
TTU 20-6 (11-4)
OU 16-10 (3-10)
UCLA 19-8 (10-6)

Outside of TTU and UCLA that’s a whole lot of mediocrity. Just because they beat us doesn’t mean we should emulate them. Also, KSU & WVU went through recent coaching changes so obviously they are going to have more transfers than normal.

I have no problem with getting a transfer or two to round out your team but we shouldn’t be grabbing warm bodies like we just went through a coaching change and need enough guys to hold practice.

I picked those teams not because they were stellar it was because they beat us and I was curious if they had many transfers. Maybe I didn't make that clear. No one is saying we should emulate them. Hell we are in second place with 3-5 starters as transfers. I think I did make clear that freshman made up 5 of the top 50 in scoring and 4 were on losing teams (not just conference records but in total including cupcake OOC). Of those teams I listed I would also say that transfers were the best players on 3 of them including the two you mentioned as not being mediocre.
I think if you only grabbed one transfer you could be selling yourself short by not picking up PROVEN talent. I'm all for getting high level freshman if they fit your need knowing that if they blow up they may be gone after a year. NBA or NIL.
I get it you don't like our transfers even though they make up the majority of our starting lineup. It is clear they have limitations. No one is denying that. But together they are playing well but right on the razors edge. I think we could win every game we have remaining or lose all but 1 (ASU). BYU is coming in playing very well and IMO what allowed us to win that game was repeated timely 3's by Love. I don't think we can count on that but hopefully our big guys can help. I will say I don't know how you play Tobe and V together in this game because of the fact that the majority of shots from BYU will come from 3. I'll let our coaching staff figure that out.

[Chicat]

I like some of our transfers. Bradley and Awaka for obvious reasons. A guy like Love as a single season bucket-getter.

What I’m not high on are the mid-major reaches, or more specifically the reasons why they are necessary. Limit those, and I think we will be fine. But I’ll never balk at getting younger, highly-rated guys who other top schools had in their program for a year or two.

[Fishclamps]

I don't have an issue with any of them but Townsend

[JMarkJohns]

I don't have an issue with any of them but Townsend

But Trey was Tommy’s priority. ADO was backup backup with it was obvious Sanon and Will Riley weren’t going to be joining us after reclassifying.

And nothing in my post suggested I’m anti-transfer. I’m against a revolving door mentality. Half the transfers Tommy has brought in are one-year transfers and of them, Keshon Johnson was the best, and he was a role player.

So, yeah, having a foundation of prep talent then being able to go all-in on that one multi-year transfer or International prospect would actually do Tommy a favor. He’s good at it when he’s not needing multiple of each because prep recruiting is one playable prospect yearly, which is what it’s been for 3 years now.

[Fishclamps]

Oh I don't mind transfers either, and I agree that he needs to be offering more than 4 people a year, I'm just saying he whiffed huge with Townsend. At least ADO tries.

[Merkin]

Trey Townsend is a 6'6" PF with no outside game. Don't think it's really a shock to anyone. What probably surprises me most is his lack of basketball IQ for a super senior.

[JMarkJohns]

One advantage to prep recruits over transfers is getting them in your system and being able to know they hold value, call it the Henri Veesaar Corollary, vs a transfer where you are projecting fit and attitude.

It’s not just that Trey isn’t a good player, he is a middling attitude to even bad attitude as well. He isn’t aggressive, doesn’t battle, slinks away from rebounding at this level, doesn’t defend anywhere. Effort and Attitude impact is even negative.

Having the players in house lets you know whether they are a continued good fit. That has never been more valuable.

[JMarkJohns]

And obviously Veesaar is an International, but he was a freshman and a system built player.

If Lewis stays for next year, he is a great example of this. His attitude and aggression is excellent for this team’s mindset. His impact goes beyond stats. And he’s evolving to be a (often inefficient) playmaker. But that in-house development could be huge for Arizona this March and next year.

You can more easily trust a player like KJ because you know, and don’t just project.

This is especially the case vs graduate transfers who I would start to trend away from unless they want to be an Kier-type. Impact is minimal vs multi-year developed transfers or preps.

[UAEebs86]

It’s not just that Trey isn’t a good player, he is a middling attitude to even bad attitude as well. He isn’t aggressive, doesn’t battle, slinks away from rebounding at this level, doesn’t defend anywhere. Effort and Attitude impact is even negative.

How do you explain his game in the tourney against Kentucky? Just a blind squirrel finding a nut? He looks like a completely different player here.

[Fishclamps]

I would chalk that up to Calipari phoning it in his last few seasons at Kentucky and that they weren't actually good at all and Townsend got hot

[PHXCATS]

Good interview with Lloyd

I support Lloyd 100%