As usual, shrinking bench

[gumby]

{fatigued by thread. raises hand for sub}
\

[EVCat]

{fatigued by thread. raises hand for sub}
\

Suck it up. There's another break coming in 30 seconds...

Do you really want us to send in Machina for you?

[Olsondogg]

I always laugh when I read tweets from players that after a game, and the subsequent practices they are going to the rec to play basketball.

Cause they are fatigued.

[salim'sheadband]

Now Miller's not playing Parker OR Ristic!

[Chicat]

Now Miller's not playing Parker OR Ristic!

And yet Miller still managed to get 7 guys 25+ minutes and Korcheck played more than 5.

So much for that "6.5" bullshit...

[BigSkyCatinMT]

Now Miller's not playing Parker OR Ristic!

And yet Miller still managed to get 7 guys 25+ minutes and Korcheck played more than 5.

So much for that "6.5" bullshit...

Not so hard when you're up 20 points almost the entire game.

[Olsondogg]

I wish the game had been closer so we could futher critique/criticize substitution patterns.

[Chicat]

Now Miller's not playing Parker OR Ristic!

And yet Miller still managed to get 7 guys 25+ minutes and Korcheck played more than 5.

So much for that "6.5" bullshit...

Not so hard when you're up 20 points almost the entire game.

So Pitts wouldn't have played if we hadn't gone up double digits? Interesting theory...

[Catstatic]

I wish the game had been closer so we could futher critique/criticize substitution patterns.

You don't critique anything, you simply continue criticizing anyone who doesn't agree 100% with everything Miller does. You're right! Zeus and Ashley should be able to deal with any frontline in the country, including Duke, Kentucky, Wisconsin and Virginia, without getting tired, even though all of those teams develop back-up bigs as an essential part of their success. Our two should be able to play against any 4 all night long. You're right!

Not developing the bigs on the bench is simply not an issue because they have not earned their minutes, even though our greatest postseason success (1997) had two very limited players (Edgerson and Harris) getting lots of minutes each and every game. Since Miller became our coach, it must be he has had the bad luck to have back-up bigs who do not measure up to Eugene and Donnell: Guys like KNat, Chol, Jerrett, Victor and Ristic, to name a few.

This has nothing to do with wins and losses. It has to do with something many of us see as an ongoing issue with Miller's substitution patterns, something even fans at Xavier mentioned.

It is a waste of time trying to have actual discussions about Arizona basketball on this board. You win, Odogg. Congrats!

Go Cats!!

[Chicat]

Uh, Kreal, Jerrett, and Ristic got/get plenty of minutes. Chol didn't because he was not good (and continues to be not good). You might have a point about Victor but he left so early we'll never know. So your post was about as good as Chol's defensive positioning and Jerrett's commitment to the team.

[EVCat]

No coach "develops" players with real minutes if said players hurt the team.

Ristic gets his minutes when he shows he is engaged and contributing. And there have been games Miller has kept him in because of that. What other big do you want to see "develop"? Korcheck? Jeez. Victor got exactly the minutes he earned, and would have continued to get more PT had he stuck around.

Sometimes, the "many of us see..." premise is just flawed. Opinions are always opinions, but it doesn't mean they hold a kernel of actual logic. We play 9 regularly when they are healthy. Korcheck is barely better than the deep bench, so he might get some minutes when we are in PAC 12 ref bizarro world. Otherwise, we play 9 players realistic minutes, and have a 2/3/4 rotation that has a shit ton of flexibility. And when Ristic shows he is not hurting the team, he gets some minutes at the 5. But until he learns how to properly hedge or, I dunno, defend a player in the post, he is not going to play more than token minutes. And he shouldn't.

[salim'sheadband]

No coach "develops" players with real minutes if said players hurt the team.

Ristic gets his minutes when he shows he is engaged and contributing. And there have been games Miller has kept him in because of that. What other big do you want to see "develop"? Korcheck? Jeez. Victor got exactly the minutes he earned, and would have continued to get more PT had he stuck around.

Sometimes, the "many of us see..." premise is just flawed. Opinions are always opinions, but it doesn't mean they hold a kernel of actual logic. We play 9 regularly when they are healthy. Korcheck is barely better than the deep bench, so he might get some minutes when we are in PAC 12 ref bizarro world. Otherwise, we play 9 players realistic minutes, and have a 2/3/4 rotation that has a shit ton of flexibility. And when Ristic shows he is not hurting the team, he gets some minutes at the 5. But until he learns how to properly hedge or, I dunno, defend a player in the post, he is not going to play more than token minutes. And he shouldn't.

Get it.

[rgdeuce]

Some people just need to be fans and quit analyzing the team and the games. Just be one of those 80-year-old ladies who love their cats no matter what and cheer and get all giddy when we win

[Olsondogg]

I wish the game had been closer so we could futher critique/criticize substitution patterns.

You don't critique anything, you simply continue criticizing anyone who doesn't agree 100% with everything Miller does. You're right! Zeus and Ashley should be able to deal with any frontline in the country, including Duke, Kentucky, Wisconsin and Virginia, without getting tired, even though all of those teams develop back-up bigs as an essential part of their success. Our two should be able to play against any 4 all night long. You're right!

Not developing the bigs on the bench is simply not an issue because they have not earned their minutes, even though our greatest postseason success (1997) had two very limited players (Edgerson and Harris) getting lots of minutes each and every game. Since Miller became our coach, it must be he has had the bad luck to have back-up bigs who do not measure up to Eugene and Donnell: Guys like KNat, Chol, Jerrett, Victor and Ristic, to name a few.

This has nothing to do with wins and losses. It has to do with something many of us see as an ongoing issue with Miller's substitution patterns, something even fans at Xavier mentioned.

It is a waste of time trying to have actual discussions about Arizona basketball on this board. You win, Odogg. Congrats!

Go Cats!!

The best part of your posts, aside from the fact that you just follow me around and comment on comments, is that you act as if getting a shot away from a Final 4, twice in the last 4 years, and a shot away from another Elite 8 in one of the other years, is some sort of proof that lack of bench development existed. You use Duke as some sort of evidence, even though they get bounced from the tourney immediately more often then they advance deep.

You really need to give up comparing anything to a team that won it all almost 2 decades ago. The game has changed, along with the coaching. If you pine for the "good ol days" then that's on you.

Problems with subsitution patterns. Let me let that sink in. You somehow have a solution that would have swayed the games we lost in the tourney by substituting someone more or less. Give me a fucking break. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, nor have any solution that would make any difference whatsoever.

If you pine away for some coach that subbed the way you like, you'd just find something else to bitch about...because that's what people like you do. You say you want to have an actual discussion about something, but you neglect the fact that Miller has 8 players that play double-digit minutes. Kentucky (not shockingly) is the only team you mentioned that plays more. Duke and Virginia, also have 8 players doing the same...while Wisconsin only plays 7 players more than 10 minutes a game.

So before you attack, get your fucking facts straight.

[EVCat]

Some people just need to be fans and quit analyzing the team and the games. Just be one of those 80-year-old ladies who love their cats no matter what and cheer and get all giddy when we win

There really isn't much wrong with that, in my view.

There is no medal for best fan analysis. That said, it is very possible to analyze this team and not be disgusted. Sweeping generalities to create an "us/them" narrative where those who find this "shrinking bench" argument false due to actual reasoning are part of some anti-analysis police are no more accurate the 100th time than they are the 1st.

[BigSkyCatinMT]

Most people wouldn't bump a 2nd page thread to say that they're happy to be wrong.

1). I had no idea that PJC was concussed when I started this thread.

2). Had no clue Ristic was ailing when I started this thread.

[dcZONAfan]

I swear, over the years (going way back through Lute's tenure as well) it seems that about 90% of the time when a player transfers due to a perceived lack of playing time, that something occurs which would have led to all the playing time they could handle. Whether they transfer, and then we have a player leave early for the nba, or they transfer, and we lose a player to injury, or whatever.

I swear that these transfers retroactively gain stature, so much so that people believe they would've made a difference. For instance, thinking Victor would've gotten 15-20 minutes against ASU on the road, when he averaged 7 (and a lot less in close games).

Probably would have been in there for about 15-20 minutes

[/quote]

haha Gumby I was making fun of the OP and (if he was serious about CV playing against ASU) Merkin

[Merkin]

[Alieberman]

I think this thread can be deleted

[Chicat]

I think this thread can be deleted

Miller put his 9th player into the game well before the under-12 media timeout in the first half thus rendering this thread an absolute joke.

[BigSkyCatinMT]

I think this thread can be deleted

Miller put his 9th player into the game well before the under-12 media timeout in the first half thus rendering this thread an absolute joke.

Like I said, glad to be wrong.

8 and 9 didn't play in the 2nd half.

Closer the game...