Lauri Markkanen

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Sun Aug 07, 2016 8:42 am

Longhorned wrote:I'm on record comparing absolutely every player to Kevin McHale.

PJC, another KM!

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sat Aug 20, 2016 11:01 am

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Sat Aug 20, 2016 11:24 am

Merkin wrote:

Don't classes start this week at UofA?

Get your ass to class!

SCCats · Post by **SCCats** » Sat Aug 20, 2016 1:21 pm

Merkin wrote:

Is that good?

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Sat Aug 20, 2016 2:34 pm

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Sat Aug 20, 2016 2:48 pm

Uhh class starts on Monday. He should probably be in Tucson right now.

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Sat Aug 20, 2016 3:01 pm

Both those tweets were posted today and both say this happened today?

That's a pretty active day....

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Sat Aug 20, 2016 3:16 pm

Hell yeah, I would love the Jimmer the shit out of some teams this year.

Get to class Lauri...

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sat Aug 20, 2016 5:13 pm

Nearly a year ago Miller implied that Markkanen was the best recruit in this entire class.

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Sat Aug 20, 2016 6:06 pm

wow 63 pts

KaibabKat · Post by **KaibabKat** » Sat Aug 20, 2016 8:14 pm

Was held to 10 points in first game at Ulm against Germany.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Aug 22, 2016 11:17 am

KaibabKat wrote:Was held to 10 points in first game at Ulm against Germany.

Down to a paltry 32.3 PPG. What a loser.

KaibabKat · Post by **KaibabKat** » Mon Aug 22, 2016 11:59 am

Ergo SuperCup friendly tournament in Ulm, Germany concluded yesterday. Four teams: Germany, Poland, Finland & Russia. Finland ended up 1-2.

Lauri Markkanen scoring vs:

Germany (L) - 10 points
Poland (W) - 24 points
Russia (L) - 13 points

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Mon Aug 22, 2016 12:09 pm

so i wonder if he's actually in tucson then? if he was playing basketball games in germany like 24 hours ago and classes started 4 hours ago...

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Mon Aug 22, 2016 12:43 pm

Eh, who hasn't blown off a few classes the first week of the semester?

Unless he blew out his acl in ulm, which would explain his absence, and call the morgue.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:04 pm

ASUHATER! wrote:so i wonder if he's actually in tucson then? if he was playing basketball games in germany like 24 hours ago and classes started 4 hours ago...

I don't think it matters. It is not odd or wrong that exceptions are made for big time recruits. Allowing him to play in that tourney is a pretty tame accomodation.

I'm sure there are plenty of direct flights from Ulm to TIA.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:15 pm

Germany is also 9 hours ahead, so he will go back in time.

PennZona20 · Post by **PennZona20** » Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:29 pm

Lauri is so good he can time travel confirmed.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:30 pm

Crazy merkin! What can't Lauri do?!?.

Shucks I guess we are going to lose him to the draft.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:40 pm

If Chuck Norris played basketball his name would be Lauri Markkanen.

Look for the first NCAA 3 point dunk in history this season.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:45 pm

I like TJ Leaf. I think TJ Leaf will be a good player. I am really ok with having Lauri and not Leaf.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:38 am

Leaf is not a one and done player; LM certainly looks that way. So they'll get their guy for more seasons. But I'll still take LM over Leaf.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:47 am

(Very) early signs are pointing to him being the steal of this deep draft class. And the NCAA 3-point line is what, a foot closer to the basket than FIBA?

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:55 am

This is the year right?

For those of you more in the know, how it this year shaping up? Reloading year with questions to be answered, or contender year? Granted there are always questions and curveballs (I will go to my grave thinking if Bash didn't break his foot that season, we are cutting nets in April). But what's the general gestalt for this upcoming season?

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:57 am

Lack of a true Arizona good PG really is going to hurt this time, that's my take. Pinning a lot on true freshman Kobi Simmons to see if he can play at this level, even though he is probably more of a combo guard. PJC is just too short to guard anyone at this level, and KA is another Mark Lyons/Momo Jones, a 2G forced to play the point.

Too bad there isn't another TJ in the wings although Miller is no doubt looking.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:00 am

Ugh...unfortunate.

Thanks for the take Merk.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:23 am

CalStateTempe wrote:This is the year right?

For those of you more in the know, how it this year shaping up? Reloading year with questions to be answered, or contender year? Granted there are always questions and curveballs (I will go to my grave thinking if Bash didn't break his foot that season, we are cutting nets in April). But what's the general gestalt for this upcoming season?

I'm not an insider, but I bear down hard as a fan.

We aren't short of talent. We will likely start 4 five star players plus Dusan/Chance. We have some decent experience in Kadeem, Trier, Dusan and Chance, but we don't overflow with experience. Here are the major questions for me:

Is Kobi the guy at pg? We want him to be. He has the most talent and gives us the most potential for success. If he can start there and handle 25-30 mpg, we have more flexibility to play Kadeem off the ball.
Are the young guys as good as advertised? Ray, Rawle, Lauri and Kobi all have top pedigrees, but you never know if they are ready to go, especially early.
Will the D be better than last year? We had issues last year. Ray and Lauri look like big upgrades, and it's hard to think that Chance, Zo and Kadeem won't be better with another year under their belt.

If things break right, I don't think it's off at all to see this as a team who can make the final four. Duke and Kentucky are pretty loaded, so we might be really good but not win it. With a lot of unknowns, we could also not come together and struggle.

I am optimistic, but I really want to see how those questions resolve before I start really getting my hopes up.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:51 am

Merkin wrote:Lack of a true Arizona good PG really is going to hurt this time, that's my take. Pinning a lot on true freshman Kobi Simmons to see if he can play at this level, even though he is probably more of a combo guard. PJC is just too short to guard anyone at this level, and KA is another Mark Lyons/Momo Jones, a 2G forced to play the point.

Too bad there isn't another TJ in the wings although Miller is no doubt looking.

I have more faith in Kobi, although it is dependent on him being ready. He is not TJ, but he has been a PG all the way. Just being more of a scorer isn't fatal to him being effective. He's a scoring pg in my estimation, not a combo.

KA gets a bad rap for me. He had a good assist/to ratio and pre-illness was pretty good last year. He needs to be better as a defender, but he should contribute, and can do it as a pg.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:55 am

Finally some earnest breakdowns of where things stand heading into the season. We've got a key player working back from an injury (RS), several inexperienced players, and questions about PG. If everything breaks the right way, we're solidly a top 3 team in the Pac. But top 5 may be more realistic. Can Ristic play big minutes at the 5? Can he avoid foul trouble, get 7 to 10 boards, and keep working his nice low post game? How will Comanche do in his enlarged role? What kind of defender is he? Will we run PG-by-committee, or will one guy emerge as our starting 1? Will Smith be the player we expected him to be before the injury?

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:08 am

How good the team is in November-January means nothing. How good and how together the team has become in February & March is all that matters. I imagine we'll have a decent amount of frustrating outings early on and come second half of Pac-12 play watch out.

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:17 am

I want this team peaking in early April

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:20 am

ChooChooCat wrote:How good the team is in November-January means nothing. How good and how together the team has become in February & March is all that matters. I imagine we'll have a decent amount of frustrating outings early on and come second half of Pac-12 play watch out.

I hope so, ChooChoo. Hopefully the freshmen will be gaining confidence and consistency, and hopefully we'll be fully healthy. The Pac race should be fun this year. OR has a key injury (Brooks), just announced, and there's no timetable for his return yet. Can UCLA go from 10th place to a tourney team? Probably but they've got their own challenges. Will Fultz be the Pac's best PG? Does Cal have enough left on their roster to compete for a league title? A lot of new faces at CU and Utah.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Tue Aug 23, 2016 1:43 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote: I have more faith in Kobi, although it is dependent on him being ready. He is not TJ, but he has been a PG all the way. Just being more of a scorer isn't fatal to him being effective. He's a scoring pg in my estimation, not a combo.

KA gets a bad rap for me. He had a good assist/to ratio and pre-illness was pretty good last year. He needs to be better as a defender, but he should contribute, and can do it as a pg.

Exactly how I see it. I think the sports world gets too caught up in getting too cute with these titles. Besides, a lot of these "Combo" assertions are made when projecting him in the NBA. Just because you are a combo in the NBA, doesn't mean you cannot be an effective or even great starting PG in college (see Avery Bradley, Bayless, and Eric Bledsoe had he not been paired up with John Wall in Kentucky's backcourt). From what I have seen on him, he is a scoring-minded PG, just like you said. He has plenty of attributes that translate to success at that position as well. He obviously does have things he has to work on and some more things to prove before NBA execs see him as an NBA 1. He isnt a converted 1 though.

Agree on the KA thing, which I touched on in the other thread. If Kobi steps up and becomes that guy at the 1, how many teams have a backup at 1 like Kadeem? As a starter, he isnt ideal, best case scenario, aka TJ, but not nearly as dire of a situation as some are making it out to be. Here is the bottom line: That 2011 team, with Derrick Williams and not much more (Solo was a soph and only a shell of what he became at U of A and is now) was a shot away from a final four. Who was our point guard? Momo Jones.....

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Tue Aug 23, 2016 1:48 pm

rgdeuce wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote: I have more faith in Kobi, although it is dependent on him being ready. He is not TJ, but he has been a PG all the way. Just being more of a scorer isn't fatal to him being effective. He's a scoring pg in my estimation, not a combo.

KA gets a bad rap for me. He had a good assist/to ratio and pre-illness was pretty good last year. He needs to be better as a defender, but he should contribute, and can do it as a pg.
Exactly how I see it. I think the sports world gets too caught up in getting too cute with these titles. Besides, a lot of these "Combo" assertions are made when projecting him in the NBA. Just because you are a combo in the NBA, doesn't mean you cannot be an effective or even great starting PG in college (see Avery Bradley, Bayless, and Eric Bledsoe had he not been paired up with John Wall in Kentucky's backcourt). From what I have seen on him, he is a scoring-minded PG, just like you said. He has plenty of attributes that translate to success at that position as well. He obviously does have things he has to work on and some more things to prove before NBA execs see him as an NBA 1. He isnt a converted 1 though.

Agree on the KA thing, which I touched on in the other thread. If Kobi steps up and becomes that guy at the 1, how many teams have a backup at 1 like Kadeem? As a starter, he isnt ideal, best case scenario, aka TJ, but not nearly as dire of a situation as some are making it out to be. Here is the bottom line: That 2011 team, with Derrick Williams and not much more (Solo was a soph and only a shell of what he became at U of A and is now) was a shot away from a final four. Who was our point guard? Momo Jones.....

Excellent post, rgd. This is a guard-heavy team, which has actually worked out well for us historically.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:27 pm

Markkasen pistekuninkuus havisutti myös FIBA Euroopan historiankirjojen sivuja; Markkanen voitti edellisen nuorten EM-kisojen pistekuninkuuden vuosi sitten 18-vuotiaiden poikien EM-kisoissa.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:07 pm

rgdeuce wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote: I have more faith in Kobi, although it is dependent on him being ready. He is not TJ, but he has been a PG all the way. Just being more of a scorer isn't fatal to him being effective. He's a scoring pg in my estimation, not a combo.

KA gets a bad rap for me. He had a good assist/to ratio and pre-illness was pretty good last year. He needs to be better as a defender, but he should contribute, and can do it as a pg.
Exactly how I see it. I think the sports world gets too caught up in getting too cute with these titles. Besides, a lot of these "Combo" assertions are made when projecting him in the NBA. Just because you are a combo in the NBA, doesn't mean you cannot be an effective or even great starting PG in college (see Avery Bradley, Bayless, and Eric Bledsoe had he not been paired up with John Wall in Kentucky's backcourt). From what I have seen on him, he is a scoring-minded PG, just like you said. He has plenty of attributes that translate to success at that position as well. He obviously does have things he has to work on and some more things to prove before NBA execs see him as an NBA 1. He isnt a converted 1 though.

Agree on the KA thing, which I touched on in the other thread. If Kobi steps up and becomes that guy at the 1, how many teams have a backup at 1 like Kadeem? As a starter, he isnt ideal, best case scenario, aka TJ, but not nearly as dire of a situation as some are making it out to be. Here is the bottom line: That 2011 team, with Derrick Williams and not much more (Solo was a soph and only a shell of what he became at U of A and is now) was a shot away from a final four. Who was our point guard? Momo Jones.....

The Warriors have changed things. It's sort of a joke, but not really. On the pro and college level, the game is becoming far less about defined positions and more about the whole. Using the GSW example, having a bunch of unselfish guys who can also score is just as good (if not better) than a single distributor and finishers.

TJ was a pass first PG, but that just isn't necessary for success any more. In addition to your examples, both 2010's UConn title teams had scoring pg's who were the team's primary scorer. The undefeated UK team, Harrison was a less athletic Kobi.

I don't mean to slight KA by pushing for Kobi as a starter, but Kobi has the highest ceiling. We are the best if Kobi is starting, Kadeem is giving us 10-15 at pg and a few off the ball too. As a primary option, we probably won't be thrilled with Kadeem, but he would be a very good option off the bench.

I worry more about D, specifically Chance and Dusan being defensive contributors, than I do about PG.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:17 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkLFD1eq3nA" target="_blank

This guy has game.

Probably doesn't belong in an LM thread, but hey, lots of chatter about KS today. He'll be throwing lobs to LM soon!

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:01 am

You don't have to have traditional PG play to win, as long as the person playing at the point is not a liability who is forced to play the position because you have to have a ball handler. Point play hurts when you are playing your 9th best player just to have someone running point who has the requisite skills. If you have wings with handle, or a "point forward", or can start offense out of a few different sets, and are truly running some motion, the idea of a TJ McConnell at point isn't required. A TJ is nice and a luxury because you can rely on one clear leader and ball handler, but it isn't required. There were more than a few successful UA teams that did not have a "classic" PG...Damon was a scoring 1, Steve Kerr was vary rarely the initiator of offense, Mark Lyons (though he had other deficiencies, he still was successful), Matt Othick was more a shooter and shared the start offense with MM and a couple of small forwards with capability (Buechler, Mills).

I know TJ is seared into our minds. But if we have ball handling from all three wings, and some PF play with handle, we do NOT need to force the issue with a "true" or "classic" point.

Last year was a totally different beast. We had a lot of bigger guys. We had a freshman at one wing, Gabe was a mess with the ball in pressure situations, and we had big guys who couldn't dribble. We HAD to force PJC and Kadeem into that responsibility, and it showed in the Wichita State game badly...when they took Kadeem out of the game, there was no relief.

This year, we will have flexibility at the 4, Trier is a year older and will be able to take more of the ball duties, Kobi will be a scorer but can run point effective to be a part timer, and Smith and others can play 3/4 and provide release/handle in traps and at mid court, and can also initiate offense. It is a totally different situation. We can run true motion with an interchangeable 1-3 and sometimes 4.

A PG is important. But it doesn't have to be a traditional "100% start the offense" guy, especially if you have motion principles.

catgrad97 · Post by **catgrad97** » Wed Aug 24, 2016 1:10 pm

That Wichita State game was a Bucknell-level exposing of an Arizona team that hopefully is never revisited a third time.

Granted, the Shockers were terribly underseeded to begin with, but they made the Cats look like they all had feet of clay and hadn't scouted them well at all.

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Wed Aug 24, 2016 2:50 pm

http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_ ... ltics-more" target="_blank

18. Denver Nuggets (via Grizzlies)*

Lauri Markkanen
Arizona
Freshman
Forward

The Nuggets get this pick from the Grizzlies if it falls outside the top five, and this would be their second first-round pick.

They are loaded with some talented international players, and Markkanen would be another score. He's yet another 7-footer who can shoot 3s, rebound and score inside. He isn't an elite athlete, but the Nuggets have figured out as well as anyone how to utilize players with his skills.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Wed Aug 24, 2016 4:52 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkLFD1eq3nA

This guy has game.

Probably doesn't belong in an LM thread, but hey, lots of chatter about KS today. He'll be throwing lobs to LM soon!

Shoots 100 percent. Why pass?

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Fri Aug 26, 2016 4:23 am

Lauri Markkanen to start Arizona Wildcats career after busy summer

By Bruce Pascoe Arizona Daily Star Updated 12 min ago

After arriving at Arizona in May to take a pre-session course and become acclimated with his new home and program, Markkanen returned to Europe and spent the summer successfully representing his native Finland.

Markkanen was the leading scorer in the FIBA U20 European Championships, averaging 24.9 points a game and making the all-tournament team, and he’s since been playing well for the Finnish senior national team over a series of exhibitions.

In the Ergo SuperCup last weekend, Markkanen scored 24 points on 8-for-13 shooting against the Polish national team, while adding another 13 points against Russia in the final game. He’s still in Russia to play some additional games for Finland before he returns to Tucson next week.

All that play overseas meant Markkanen missed the bulk of UA’s summertime workouts and conditioning, plus the first week of the fall semester, but UA coach Sean Miller is hardly complaining. Having been the head coach of USA Basketball’s U19 World Championship gold medalists in 2015, Miller has a high regard for top international competition.

“As a country, they’re really trying to build their brand in basketball, and obviously Lauri, being as young as he is, is at the forefront of that,” Miller said this week. “He’s had a tremendous summer. Having been over there as recently as last summer, (I know) it’s very organized basketball, there are very well-coached games and there’s FIBA rules, so it’s a fast game they’re playing.

Finland senior team coach Henrik Dettman is especially bullish. In an interview with FIBA.com during the U20 tournament, the well-respected Dettman said Markkanen has the talent to become an NBA All-Star.

Markkanen’s upcoming experience at UA, Dettman said, will be another step toward approaching that possibility.

“We are really excited about having him in the men’s national team this summer and having him going to Arizona to play college basketball because that is also going to give him a new view and new experience of how the game is,” Dettman told FIBA.com. “College basketball is different. The speed of the game is different, the way they play is different and this experience will give him a wider base when it is time to go to
the next level.

“The next level is, of course, the NBA. But to make it to the NBA, that’s nothing. You have to make it in the NBA, then you are something.

“I think Lauri has the talent to be a good, I would say All-Star player.”

http://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcat ... 2a4d5.html" target="_blank

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:42 am

Here's hoping we're talking about him next summer the way we now speak about Bibby.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:59 am

Beachcat97 wrote:Here's hoping we're talking about him next summer the way we now speak about Bibby.

I like Lauri, but I doubt he will be spoken about as arguably the greatest pg to wear an Arizona uniform.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:28 am

I think we really ought to consider letting the season start and see what we have.

I am not saying we should never discuss prospects. But we are close enough to have football to focus on, and after seeing the team for a bit in November and December, we will have a lot better idea if they have the pieces to possibly gell.

We have talent, but lost a big piece in Ferguson. We have questions at PG, but might be so much better at the other positions that it doesn't quite matter like it did last year when we were very dependent on a ball distributor. We should be able to determine with what we know that we will be a top 3 team in the PAC as a base. If Trier improves and isn't hurt, I really expect him to be a go-to scorer, and look how many games we lost in the end game last year? Trier improving is worth 4 or 5 games. Then, if LM is what he might just be, that's when we make this jump from PAC contender fighting for a 2nd weekend of NCAA to maybe playing in our home state in the Final Four.

I have two tickets from Vegas from Memorial Day weekend. 30-1 for Cats to win the title, and 17-1 for the Cardinals to win the Super Bowl. It is the best I have felt about futures bets with double digits maybe ever. If we get to the Final Four, we have the Danny and the Miracles home court. And I do believe the Cardinals are, hands down, the best team in the NFL, led by the best player's coach in the NFL, with a GM that has been brilliant in finding aging veterans to plug holes. The only thing the Cards can't survive is a separated/broken throwing hand finger by Carson Palmer, which was 100% of the problem last year (this Palmer chokes in playoffs narrative is a joke...he got his knee snapped in the first series of his first game, and played with a broken finger and got his team to the NFC title game).

Anyways, some digression there. I knew last year was going to be a struggle. We all did. You don't just fill the holes left by TJ, RHJ, and Stanley with one year transfers. But nothing in the PAC scares me...I think Oregon played at maximum efficiency last year (isn't that weird to say about an Oregon team after the Kent years?), and will be very good. UCLA? 10th place with a good class = 5th place at best. Their class isn't overwhelming. Yeah, Leaf...the kid who got pissed because Miller properly evaluated him for Team USA. The coaching is horrible, the environment worse, the expectations crushing for no reason, and the players good but with a 5-cent heart. ASU? HAHAHAHAHHAHA. I love that I get to see ASU fail AND Bobby Hurley fail (I actually had gotten to a level of respect for Hurley in his short pro career. Glad we are back to the kid I got my section to chant "EXLAX" at in the 1991 game in McKale following his Hershey Squirts 1990 final). USC? They are fun, and they are pretty good, but also not staffed to compete. OSU will get better, but they lose their heart and soul. UW? The day I fear Romar is the day I fear my own shadow. They will still be the "commit a foul on every play at home and stomp and cry and frown until the ref stops calling them", but their talent isn't where it was when they could do that and win every game at home. WSU? Ernie Kent. Utah? Respect. Like their coach. A lot. But they lost too much. Colorado? Oh, yeah...they are a rival. Remember that? Cal? Talent, but lost talent too. And their coach is 100% recruiter. Stanford? Good football school....

So, anyway...we are a 2nd or 3rd place PAC team at the base, on the face of it all, competing for a conference title and a Sweet 16. But our position is a potential outperformer, with Trier potentially a closer that can fix our biggest ill from last year, with LM possibly not just being this stretch 4 with some talent but rather a national story, and an addition of wings with handle skills including a 1/2 combo top 50 recruit in Kobi that can, through multiple ball handlers, eliminate the point deficiency. Add to it the Ray Smith story...the kid who might be our best player, and if he is, is worth 5 or 6 wins....and we are that 2nd in PAC/2nd weekend hopeful with enough upside to be a Final Four contender. We have 3 unknowns of upside...judging them at what we know gets us the face evaluation. If 2 of those three hit (Ray is fantastic and LM is fantastic but Zo stays the same player, or Zo starts taking over and LM is what we have seen in the offseason but Ray has lost a step, etc), we could be in that Elite Eight range.

If all three reasonably hit, we could be spending early April in Maricopa Cty.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Fri Aug 26, 2016 12:30 pm

We're going to finish between 2nd and 4th. Anything can happen in March. Need a big '17 class, and hopefully 2 of our 3 star guards stick around.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Fri Aug 26, 2016 12:44 pm

I don't ever say "we are going to finish XXXX" because it just can't be done.

We aren't so far off of being PAC champs. There is exactly one team better than us, in theory. And teams sometimes fall apart.

It is nice to prognosticate, but far too much of this dance every year, which is sometimes way off base, is based on recruit rankings. It does not take into account chemistry, improvement, injuries, duplicated skill sets with missing skill sets, and motivation. TJ should never have been a top PG. He was. Zeus should have dominated the country. He didn't. Gabe should have been Salim. He wasn't. And so on...

We will finish somewhere between 1st and 7th. We are, on paper, a 2nd weekend battling team, but the only thing we can say with any certainty is we will likely make the tournament.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Aug 26, 2016 12:55 pm

EVCat wrote:I think we really ought to consider letting the season start and see what we have.

I am not saying we should never discuss prospects. But we are close enough to have football to focus on, and after seeing the team for a bit in November and December, we will have a lot better idea if they have the pieces to possibly gell.

We have talent, but lost a big piece in Ferguson. We have questions at PG, but might be so much better at the other positions that it doesn't quite matter like it did last year when we were very dependent on a ball distributor. We should be able to determine with what we know that we will be a top 3 team in the PAC as a base. If Trier improves and isn't hurt, I really expect him to be a go-to scorer, and look how many games we lost in the end game last year? Trier improving is worth 4 or 5 games. Then, if LM is what he might just be, that's when we make this jump from PAC contender fighting for a 2nd weekend of NCAA to maybe playing in our home state in the Final Four.

I have two tickets from Vegas from Memorial Day weekend. 30-1 for Cats to win the title, and 17-1 for the Cardinals to win the Super Bowl. It is the best I have felt about futures bets with double digits maybe ever. If we get to the Final Four, we have the Danny and the Miracles home court. And I do believe the Cardinals are, hands down, the best team in the NFL, led by the best player's coach in the NFL, with a GM that has been brilliant in finding aging veterans to plug holes. The only thing the Cards can't survive is a separated/broken throwing hand finger by Carson Palmer, which was 100% of the problem last year (this Palmer chokes in playoffs narrative is a joke...he got his knee snapped in the first series of his first game, and played with a broken finger and got his team to the NFC title game).

Anyways, some digression there. I knew last year was going to be a struggle. We all did. You don't just fill the holes left by TJ, RHJ, and Stanley with one year transfers. But nothing in the PAC scares me...I think Oregon played at maximum efficiency last year (isn't that weird to say about an Oregon team after the Kent years?), and will be very good. UCLA? 10th place with a good class = 5th place at best. Their class isn't overwhelming. Yeah, Leaf...the kid who got pissed because Miller properly evaluated him for Team USA. The coaching is horrible, the environment worse, the expectations crushing for no reason, and the players good but with a 5-cent heart. ASU? HAHAHAHAHHAHA. I love that I get to see ASU fail AND Bobby Hurley fail (I actually had gotten to a level of respect for Hurley in his short pro career. Glad we are back to the kid I got my section to chant "EXLAX" at in the 1991 game in McKale following his Hershey Squirts 1990 final). USC? They are fun, and they are pretty good, but also not staffed to compete. OSU will get better, but they lose their heart and soul. UW? The day I fear Romar is the day I fear my own shadow. They will still be the "commit a foul on every play at home and stomp and cry and frown until the ref stops calling them", but their talent isn't where it was when they could do that and win every game at home. WSU? Ernie Kent. Utah? Respect. Like their coach. A lot. But they lost too much. Colorado? Oh, yeah...they are a rival. Remember that? Cal? Talent, but lost talent too. And their coach is 100% recruiter. Stanford? Good football school....

So, anyway...we are a 2nd or 3rd place PAC team at the base, on the face of it all, competing for a conference title and a Sweet 16. But our position is a potential outperformer, with Trier potentially a closer that can fix our biggest ill from last year, with LM possibly not just being this stretch 4 with some talent but rather a national story, and an addition of wings with handle skills including a 1/2 combo top 50 recruit in Kobi that can, through multiple ball handlers, eliminate the point deficiency. Add to it the Ray Smith story...the kid who might be our best player, and if he is, is worth 5 or 6 wins....and we are that 2nd in PAC/2nd weekend hopeful with enough upside to be a Final Four contender. We have 3 unknowns of upside...judging them at what we know gets us the face evaluation. If 2 of those three hit (Ray is fantastic and LM is fantastic but Zo stays the same player, or Zo starts taking over and LM is what we have seen in the offseason but Ray has lost a step, etc), we could be in that Elite Eight range.

If all three reasonably hit, we could be spending early April in Maricopa Cty.

Why wait and let the season start when we can immediately pass judgment on what the future holds? This is a similar approach to why every loss means Sean Miller is on the hot seat.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:22 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:Why wait and let the season start when we can immediately pass judgment on what the future holds? This is a similar approach to why every loss means Sean Miller is on the hot seat.

And why I sent condolence flowers to Ray Smith's family on the untimely passing of their son...

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:45 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:Why wait and let the season start when we can immediately pass judgment on what the future holds? This is a similar approach to why every loss means Sean Miller is on the hot seat.

Well, shit...who needs a season to make that eval?

I mean, he targets the #1 and #3 prospect in the country and gets in their final three schools and all the exposure that goes with that but only gets the #8 and #10. He is always missing on his first choice. I am sick of this #3 class in the country bullshit. We are always losing.

We need to go after a 25-35 class and WIN all our battles.

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