Bear Down Wildcats

Merkin wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:Who was the guy on Purdue a few years back? Hummel, I think? He had multiple similar injuries and kept trying to get back on the court. Can't remember what eventually happened with him, whether he fully recovered.

Jawann McClellan never did recover from his knee issues. He could have applied for a medical redshirt and came back for another year, and he said no, his playing days were over.

I remember another UA player, a guard, who Jim Rosborough said whose knees were "bone on bone". Forgot who it was. Player went into coaching.

Of course. Forgot about Jawann. There's another elite player whose injuries effectively derailed his career. Unbelievable how unlucky some guys are.

Ray will have terrific support from the UofA, with whatever path he takes from here.

Related?

Was talking to wife last week that I was worried that Ray may have a 'connective tissue disorder', as my wife does. It's NOT marfan, but she has had numerous knee, rotator, and hernia surgeries.

BigSkyCatinMT wrote:Was talking to wife last week that I was worried that Ray may have a 'connective tissue disorder', as my wife does. It's NOT marfan, but she has had numerous knee, rotator, and hernia surgeries.

I had the exact same thought last night as well when he went down.

CalStateTempe wrote:

BigSkyCatinMT wrote:Was talking to wife last week that I was worried that Ray may have a 'connective tissue disorder', as my wife does. It's NOT marfan, but she has had numerous knee, rotator, and hernia surgeries.

I had the exact same thought last night as well when he went down.

It's a changed gene that affects her, her brother, and 2 of 3 nephews. She has long fingers and toes, and dislocated lenses. BYU Medical isolated the gene - and it is not Marfan. Just behaves similar. Thankfully, 13 year old son is in the clear.

If this is the case, Ray may need to concentrate on studies. If it's bad luck - look at how many injuries Gronk has had. None of us can diagnose on a MB, hopefully he has GOOD Drs. Been looking forward to seeing him in an Arizona uniform for so long - If I never see it happen, as long as he makes the best choice for him.

Wishing you the best, Ray!!

Beachcat97 wrote:Who was the guy on Purdue a few years back? Hummel, I think? He had multiple similar injuries and kept trying to get back on the court. Can't remember what eventually happened with him, whether he fully recovered.

He got drafted in the second round and his been on and off a few NBA squads.

Robbie Hummel. '08-12 with Purdue. 6'9 219lbs. Junior year he was on the preseason Wooden Award watch and mid season he was a Top 30 Naismith finalist. Feb 24, 2010 he slipped and injured his right knee. Later that same day it was confirmed he tore his ACL. October 16th, 2010 he tore the same ACL and served as Asst Coach for his senior season and got a 5th year of eligibility. Played very well that year. June 2012 he was drafted 58th by the TWolves, then signed a 1 year deal in Spain. September 2012 he injured his right meniscus and was out 2 months. July 2013 rejoined the TWolves. Jan 2015 he fractured the fourth metacarpal in his right hand. July 2015 he signed a 1 year deal to play in Italy. Feb 2016 he had a major shoulder injury. Sept 2016 signed with the Nuggets and played 7 preseason games before being waived. Currently playing in Russia

damn

Every ACL has mitigating and aggravating factors for re-tear. The doctor usually has a good or bad feeling based on the anchor they are able to put together. Since each injury was on the opposite knee, there was no issue with multiple tears leaving them with little room to work with. So did the doctor get a good attachment/anchor? Does the player get full flexibility back before surgery/after surgery? Was there other damage (meniscus, ACL, LCL)? And so on.

So a basic ACL tear with no other notable damage, a first tear, is pretty much McSurgery these days. Female athletes are particularly susceptible to ACL tears based on the angle of the femur, caused by having hips. May long-time women's athletes have multiple tears. The woman who coached my daughter in club soccer right after her ACL tear had 3 tears, and she was in her late 20s. None were re-tears caused by prior damage or the new ligament not attaching fully...she earned all three as separate but fluke tears. Two on one knee, one on the other. Each of hers came with meniscus issues, so that is where things get dangerous...if you keep removing meniscus from tears during knee trauma, soon, you have none. But that woman is 28, and still plays competitive soccer. Her college and national team (not US) career are now over, but mostly because she has graduated and she was a fringe national player who has moved on with life and doesn't chase that dream any longer and doesn't stay in the shape required and does not have the time to be active. But even after 3, she is currently fully cleared. If she tears again, she may run out of meniscus and be needing some kind of transplant/reconstruction.

The ACL after surgery is generally stronger than the one we were born with. If the doctor is able to fashion a new one from, say, hamstring, they typically make it more substantial and flexible than the birth ligament. If you have the surgery and the attachment is good and it takes, which you will know pretty soon, and you gain your flexibility back, you basically have a perfectly sound knee. As good as it ever was. Maybe better. There is no muscle loss. You have gained functionality of the ligament. You have not affected anything that will cause long term issue...other than the lost training time and the need to re-train. But if it is a pure ACL tear, no other ligaments, no damage to cartilage/meniscus, no bone breaks, etc...a straight ACL re-attachment/reconstruction? You are 100% once you re-gain fitness in the leg.

So, theoretically, if all of an athlete's knee injuries were just fluke, freak tears of the ACL, not related to genetic problems or syndromes and not involving other related knee injuries that cause issues with the functionality of the knee (like lost meniscus)...the athlete could, again, return. The muscularity is still there. The attributes that make the athlete freakish are all still there. The ACL is re-built, and is better than the one they had. In that case, if the time and work is put in, an athlete could return from a 3rd ACL tear just as good as before the first. But that's a big if...IF the tears were all just ACL and did not cause substantial damage to the rest of the knee.

But you have to wonder...when a player tears 3 in 3 years? You have to wonder if there isn't something else very wrong in the actual knee structure.

^^^^ All very spot on and informative from what I know.

I would have a hard time believing that these are all fluke tears.

Also , in my opinion, whencs guy keeps turning his ankles like curry used to do when it's clear the leg is weak. They should have pulled him. His leg wasn't in basketball shape and anyone that has played knows when ur leg gets heavy it's easier to turn an ankle or twist a knee.

This is just my opinion , and as others have stated maybe it was bound to go at some point this year. But maybe not. I know from my own knee tears, and hooping , and talking to others who have had multiple knee and ankle problems that played, just after watching the first and definitely second ankle tweaks ..... u felt if they didn't rest him and pull him back A LOT this was going to happen last night.

Is it confirmed that he tore it again? I want to hope it isn't, at least for Ray's sake. I feel so bad for him.

Apparently he's stepping away from bball...

For context a premium scout member said Ray told him he is stepping away from bball today on campus. No for sure confirmation from the staff.

I got confirmation from an insider just now. He is indeed stepping away from basketball for a while, maybe forever. He is looking forward to finishing school and getting his degree from The University of Arizona.

All the best to Ray, always be a Wildcat.

Really good kid. He will succeed in life, no doubt about it.

Hurts man. Seeing him go down and give Miller the sign on the ground in the replay just killed me.

Getting dusty in here.

great thoughts by RS. seems like a great kid and i'm glad he's getting his degree. best of luck to him.

Speechless.

Wish Ray all the best in his future, wherever it lands him.

As I said earlier, wanted so much to see him in a Cat uniform. Just want him to make the best possible decision for himself so much more.

Godspeed, Ray!!

rough shit. i hope the kid gets to do everything he wants after this.

scumdevils86 wrote:rough shit. i hope the kid gets to do everything he wants after this.

I know first hand - how hard it can be to accept that you can no longer do what you believed you were meant to do - and how hard it can be to reinvent yourself. Hang in there, Ray!!!

This is very sad news. I wish Ray the best on his future endeavors. He will always be a Wildcat.

Miller needs to find a home game and start him. Call time out after we get the tip and sub him out. Cat fans would give him a 10 minute standing ovation

Ray, best of luck kid. You can and will be great I'm many things not just bball.

Does Arizona keep him on scholarship next year?

If he wants a degree, I think we owe it to him to help get him one.

Man if I could do anything for that kid I would.

Alieberman wrote:Does Arizona keep him on scholarship next year?

If he wants a degree, I think we owe it to him to help get him one.

They will probably adjust it to an academic scholarship, which won't count against the team totals

baconus66 wrote:

Alieberman wrote:Does Arizona keep him on scholarship next year?

If he wants a degree, I think we owe it to him to help get him one.

They will probably adjust it to an academic scholarship, which won't count against the team totals

That is correct. Football team did the same thing for the 2 players that medically retired.

Merkin wrote:All the best to Ray, always be a Wildcat.

Very sad day. Hoping for the best for him in the future. Good days coming kid, hang in there.

So this may be a stupid question but if ray is not playing basketball does he need to have surgery or will that heal over time. I wouldn't be surprised if miller put ray smith in the next exhibition then take a time out just so he can get one last standing ovation from the mckale fans!

This kid is awesome and gets it. It sucks that something like this happens to a kid like him but we've had to deal with the Terrance Fergusons and transfers (I'm looking at you Craig Victor & Justin Simon) of the past who just hit the eject button at the first sign of turmoil.

Main Event wrote:Hurts man. Seeing him go down and give Miller the sign on the ground in the replay just killed me.

It sucks to see what's happened to Ray, but there are bigger things than basketball in life, and everything about Ray Smith screams that he understands the qualities that make someone a success in real life.

People talk about basketball as a family. He should always be part of ours.

So sorry for him. But even through what must be extreme disappointment, he shows nothing but class and a positive outlook for the future. I wish him the best in all his endeavors.

I like this. Let him cherry pick and get one basket to be put in the official scorebook.

Merkin wrote:I like this. Let him cherry pick and get one basket to be put in the official scorebook.

It would be easy to do this. Let him at it, give the other team a dunk, start the game tied 2-2 15 seconds in.

I changed the thread title.

One, my heart sank to my stomach every time I saw the once hopeful title.

But moreso, Smith truly is the embodiment of all that is good in this world. The maturity, the perspective, the good will and appreciation amongst the hardest moments of his life is something deserving of a Thread title.

JMarkJohns wrote:I changed the thread title.

One, my heart sank to my stomach every time I saw the once hopeful title.

But moreso, Smith truly is the embodiment of all that is good in this world. The maturity, the perspective, the good will and appreciation amongst the hardest moments of his life is something deserving of a Thread title.

Love the new thread title! Good move. Thanks JMJ.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
It sucks to see what's happened to Ray, but there are bigger things than basketball in life, and everything about Ray Smith screams that he understands the qualities that make someone a success in real life.
People talk about basketball as a family. He should always be part of ours.

This. Most adults do not even have the perspective Ray does. And he is only 18 months removed from high school. In a time where a lot of us are always complaining about this younger generation, here is someone from that generation who gets it more than us. You can always tell who has amazing parents. Ray is set. He is going to have a free education and major life lessons most do not have until years later. He has hurdled them all and will go on to do amazing things.

Still in disbelief. I dont even know what to say. I was there when he went down and McKale went dead quiet. He was going to be a crucial part of this team. His 15' jumper was a thing of beauty. Best of luck to him!

So if his scholly is converted this year, does that open us up to bring someone in or do we have to wait for '17? Is Josh Jackson happy?

Ray Smith and Kevin Parrom are two members of a club I wish for no one...young people with a dream and a gift that see it taken away by no fault of their own, and are left wondering "what if?"

There are more, I am sure. Just two that jump off the page...

EVCat wrote:Ray Smith and Kevin Parrom are two members of a club I wish for no one...young people with a dream and a gift that see it taken away by no fault of their own, and are left wondering "what if?"

There are more, I am sure. Just two that jump off the page...

McClellan, Chris Dunn.

Last night during the video board game intro, Smith did the "we are Arizona" AFTER Sean Miller. Got teary eyed to say the least.

rgdeuce wrote:Last night during the video board game intro, Smith did the "we are Arizona" AFTER Sean Miller. Got teary eyed to say the least.

84Cat wrote:

rgdeuce wrote:Last night during the video board game intro, Smith did the "we are Arizona" AFTER Sean Miller. Got teary eyed to say the least.

Who's cutting onions in this thread?

I hope they keep that for a while.

pretty good write-up on ray from espn: Multiple ACL injuries have forced Ray Smith to stop playing. So what's next?

sorry if it's abp, still catching up from the holiday weekend

Jefe?

Ray Smith and Rawle Alkins don't always have identical reactions to the same event.

During pre-game warmups and the game Ray is as engaged and excited as any player. I really hope he stays just as involved with the team beyond this season. He has expressed interest in a media career, they should find a way to let him be involved with the team and also do a media related internship for the school similarly to what Gieseke is doing on the baseball team and what Victor Yates did on the football team a few years back.