This One's On Miller

[rgdeuce]

Is there a normal person that didn't see this one coming?

Nearly the entire board did. Then they threw us off in the Pac 12 tournament.

I knew this was going to be a tight game, but I figured we would be the tough ones to make the plays in the end. I dont think I ever got worried until just inside the one minute mark. Then it hit like a ton of breaks.

[PHXCATS]

Miller is very good. He know ps he did a poor job today and during the year vs zones and sad so. Hopefully this loss lets him learn and adjust to become a great coach.

[CalStateTempe]

Every coach that has two brain cells to rub together in the Arizona BB facilities better be out trying to find an elite level PG to run the show.

Its long past time to correct this lingering festering problem. Every player should know they can and will be recruited over. period.......thats just the way it is.

Pgs don't want to play for Miller. His rigid approach to offense marginalizes what they can show on the floor. Lute let them run and that is why we were point guard u. Get used to it.

Nailed it. High levels pg's won't play for Miller. Too much of a system coach. Watch any old film of lute basketball or hell and modern film of UNC Kansas Duke Oregon Kentucky and having a high level of who can create and the freedom to do so is crucial for success.

For all the player program branding, Miller likes a short leash on his players. Ironic considering he was a point guard in college.

Also ff and chippers buy you cred as a coach. Think anyone cares that duke routinely fails to make the second weekend with all their talent? No, because K has four chippers.

[CalStateTempe]

Is the pressor up? I need to see this for closure.

Oh and see my sig. wonder if odogg is gonna go after with Miller about his admission against the zone like he's gone after everyone else that's pointed out the same damn thing since this years ucla part 1

[CalStateTempe]

Lol, someone said early today that trouble against the zone is something Miller put out there as fake news for other teams to consider in game planning. lol that rich. And wishful thinking.

[WildHolcs]

Man, F, stuff like this just makes my heart hurt. I love Miller, I really do. And I really don't feel like bantering about it/ or even thinking about it. But like many have said, with the guys he gets, it's just so brutal to see us lose over and over in games that we really have no business losing - and Im not talking about random regular season games. We've lost some heartbreakers and yeah we all know bball can be an unkind game. But the fact is, lots of these close, brutal MM games shouldn't be close. We shouldn't be in the position to lose by a missed shot or made shot by the other team. Something over the years just doesn't translate with CSM to the big tourney games. Whether it be his intensity is putting too much pressure on the guys, the poor plays being called/time management down the stretch, the lack of giving his guys confidence/or demonstrating poise....I honestly have no idea what exactly it is...but it is something.

We just played 3 more MM games and not in 1 of them did we even come close to playing a complete 40 minutes...Not even f'ing close. The talent got us to where we were but the play was actually downright shit.

I feel awful for Coach, the players, and all my fellow die hard bear the fuck down brethren. I hate this shit.

[Puerco]

Just compiled a list of Miller's recruits, not counting transfers. Make of it what you will.

Year Position 247 * Rating Position Average Name
2014 C 3 4 Ristic
2009 C 4 4 Natyazhko
2015 C 4 4 Comanche
2012 C 5 4 Tarczewski
2016 CG 4 4 Simmons
2009 PF 3 4.125 Williams*
2010 PF 3 4.125 Perry
2011 PF 4 4.125 Chol
2011 PF 4 4.125 Johnson Si
2014 PF 4 4.125 Victor
2012 PF 5 4.125 Jerrett
2012 PF 5 4.125 Ashley
2016 PF 5 4.125 Markkanen
2009 PG 4 4.25 Jones
2014 PG 4 4.25 Jackson-Cartwright
2015 PG 4 4.25 Simon
2011 PG 5 4.25 Turner
2009 SF 4 4.6 Hill
2009 SF 4 4.6 Parrom
2013 SF 5 4.6 Gordon
2013 SF 5 4.6 Hollis Jefferson
2015 SF 5 4.6 Smith
2010 SG 3 4.375 Mayes
2010 SG 4 4.375 Bejarano
2012 SG 4 4.375 York
2013 SG 4 4.375 Pitts
2011 SG 5 4.375 Johnson N
2014 SG 5 4.375 Johnson St
2015 SG 5 4.375 Trier
2016 SG 5 4.375 Alkins

What I make of it is that Miller has only recruited 4 players classified as true point guards, and Justin Simon was one of them. That makes three true point guard recruits in 8 years of recruiting. His lone five star PG recruit was Josiah Turner. This is clearly the gaping hole in the Arizona roster over Miller's tenure. Hoping a diamond in the rough transfer falls into our lap every couple of years doesn't seem like a sound recruiting strategy.

[MrBug708]

He really should have treated this game as if Mack had called a timeout in the last meeting. That might have been the coaching motivation he needed.

Tough loss. Had you guys winning it all.

[Irish27]

You win as a team, you lose as a team, period! The fans should do the same.

[Spaceman Spiff]

First off, it's insane that our fans criticize Miller as a coach and not just for particular decisions. The guy is a great coach, and this is the sort of thread you regret if he's at UNC.

Some of the criticisms here are one poster with too much Dusan and another with too little Dusan. Here's what I think of the consistent criticisms recurring in this thread.

On the number of 3's: you want to work for better shots, but I'm not sure you can be too mad. Trier, PJC and Lauri shoot 39%, 43% and 42% respectively from 3. Those are green light guys. Lauri took one late shot clock contested three, Zo took one with a defender on him and his last shot was contested. Other than that, I thought all 3 took good looks. They shot 5-20 from 3. Even removing the three contested shots, what can you do about your three best shooters going 5-17?

You always want dunks and layups, but we got a ton of open looks for good shooters last night. The shots just didn't go down. Lauri, PJC and Trier shoot close to their average and we win.

On subs: this would be my biggest disagreement with Miller. It looked like he tried to ride Dusan's hot hand, then went with Pinder after Dusan gassed. I like the more rigid rotation that pushes Pinder and Chance late first and early second even if Dusan has it going.

Even here, though, I get what Miller was going for. Trying to ride the hot hand is something a lot of posters here ask him to do. He made a choice and it backfired in the closing minutes.

Defense: not really a huge complaint here, but I was not thrilled about how many direct lines to the rim we gave up. Packline is tailored to preventing that, and we had slashers all night.

I did not think it was Miller's best game. He made a few choices that had logic but did not work out. We did absolutely come to play, and murdering them on the boards is evidence of that.

[dovecanyoncat]

It may already be too late for Miller to beat the rap. If the brochure for point guard reads "Come to Tucson for the sun and the chicks and be miserable on the court, hobbled by the Miller system" why would we get any takers other than PJC types to match our wing and paint talent? TJ was an anomaly. I was soo jazzed when he finally took the reins of the team back then. Season tickets at McKale: I said to my wife "We FINALLY have a point guard!!!"

Fuck. Now we're back in the weeds.

[splitsecond]

Miller is too stubborn to evolve. Lute Olson he is not.

Love Miller, love his passion, but this is as far as we can go with him.

Miller is an elite recruiter
Miller is an elite one on one coach and maker of men
Miller is a mid-major level in-game coach.

that's basically what we are dealing with. I don't think you fire him and risk the class coming in next year, but his leash should be short now.

[MrMeow]

Miller is too stubborn to evolve. Lute Olson he is not.

Love Miller, love his passion, but this is as far as we can go with him.

Miller is an elite recruiter
Miller is an elite one on one coach and maker of men
Miller is a mid-major level in-game coach.

that's basically what we are dealing with. I don't think you fire him and risk the class coming in next year, but his leash should be short now.

I have seen a lot of dumb posts since last night, but this one is right at the top.

Jump quick because the bandwagon is burning.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Miller is too stubborn to evolve. Lute Olson he is not.

Love Miller, love his passion, but this is as far as we can go with him.

Miller is an elite recruiter
Miller is an elite one on one coach and maker of men
Miller is a mid-major level in-game coach.

that's basically what we are dealing with. I don't think you fire him and risk the class coming in next year, but his leash should be short now.

This fan base doesn't deserve Miller. This is a Tim Floyd response.

[HiCat]

Miller is too stubborn to evolve. Lute Olson he is not.

Love Miller, love his passion, but this is as far as we can go with him.

Come on Merk, relax bud. The dust hasn't settled yet...fire up a doobie, let's think about this.

[Merkin]

Miller is too stubborn to evolve. Lute Olson he is not.

Love Miller, love his passion, but this is as far as we can go with him.

Come on Merk, relax bud. The dust hasn't settled yet...fire up a doobie, let's think about this.

Lost the mouthpiece to my vape dagnabbit. Guess I better get my bong ready.

Not calling for him to get fired, and even a stern talking to, I just need to realize a FF is probably not in the near future with his stubbornness and micromanaging.

But like he said himself, it's on him for not getting the team ready all year to play good offense against a zone.

How can you play against a zone when you don't practice running one?

I expect to see a lot more zone from Arizona next year.

[dovecanyoncat]

Miller is too stubborn to evolve. Lute Olson he is not.

Love Miller, love his passion, but this is as far as we can go with him.

Come on Merk, relax bud. The dust hasn't settled yet...fire up a doobie, let's think about this.

Lost the mouthpiece to my vape dagnabbit. Guess I better get my bong ready.

Not calling for him to get fired, and even a stern talking to, I just need to realize a FF is probably not in the near future with his stubbornness and micromanaging.

But like he said himself, it's on him for not getting the team ready all year to play good offense against a zone.

How can you play against a zone when you don't practice running one?

I expect to see a lot more zone from Arizona next year.

It's harder to break a zone without a full-sized high caliber point guard who also has the freedom to shoot a 3 any time he's feelin' it.

[TheGreatCatsby]

We talk till we're blue in the face about how to beat the zone, either 1 of 2 ways. One, flash a decent ballhandler to the middle, let him drive or shoot from there (but in games our guy gets tentative the first handle or two, fumbles the ball, gives away driving lane opportunity). We fudge that up a couple times and abandon it. The second way is great dribble drive penetration, then kick to a big, a cutting wing, or pass out to a now WIDE open wing. Yet in games we might drive once then abandon that too.

In the end we spend 80% of our time just passing around the perimeter and let the zone attack us, instead of the other way around. Sean probably tells these kids what to do, because you see us attempt zone breaks initially, but it all seems to fall apart as the game progress and we revert to crap.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Miller is too stubborn to evolve. Lute Olson he is not.

Love Miller, love his passion, but this is as far as we can go with him.

Come on Merk, relax bud. The dust hasn't settled yet...fire up a doobie, let's think about this.

Lost the mouthpiece to my vape dagnabbit. Guess I better get my bong ready.

Not calling for him to get fired, and even a stern talking to, I just need to realize a FF is probably not in the near future with his stubbornness and micromanaging.

But like he said himself, it's on him for not getting the team ready all year to play good offense against a zone.

How can you play against a zone when you don't practice running one?

I expect to see a lot more zone from Arizona next year.

I don't buy that this alleged stubborness prohibits a Final Four. Like somehow Bo Ryan's loosey goosey style is why they made two Final Fours. Like Jim Boeheim's insistence on a 2-3 zone every single year regardless of personnel isn't stubborness or has prohibited Syracuse from making the Final Four.

[NYCat]

Miller is too stubborn to evolve. Lute Olson he is not.

Love Miller, love his passion, but this is as far as we can go with him.

Come on Merk, relax bud. The dust hasn't settled yet...fire up a doobie, let's think about this.

Lost the mouthpiece to my vape dagnabbit. Guess I better get my bong ready.

Not calling for him to get fired, and even a stern talking to, I just need to realize a FF is probably not in the near future with his stubbornness and micromanaging.

But like he said himself, it's on him for not getting the team ready all year to play good offense against a zone.

How can you play against a zone when you don't practice running one?

I expect to see a lot more zone from Arizona next year.

I don't buy that this alleged stubborness prohibits a Final Four. Like somehow Bo Ryan's loosey goosey style is why they made two Final Fours. Like Jim Boeheim's insistence on a 2-3 zone every single year regardless of personnel isn't stubborness or has prohibited Syracuse from making the Final Four.

No but stubbornness didn't allow boeheim to reach the F4 until 11 years at cuse, 13 years for ryan. Miller is in year 8 going on 9.

[pokinmik]

Miller is too stubborn to evolve. Lute Olson he is not.

Love Miller, love his passion, but this is as far as we can go with him.

Come on Merk, relax bud. The dust hasn't settled yet...fire up a doobie, let's think about this.

Lost the mouthpiece to my vape dagnabbit. Guess I better get my bong ready.

Not calling for him to get fired, and even a stern talking to, I just need to realize a FF is probably not in the near future with his stubbornness and micromanaging.

But like he said himself, it's on him for not getting the team ready all year to play good offense against a zone.

How can you play against a zone when you don't practice running one?

I expect to see a lot more zone from Arizona next year.

I don't buy that this alleged stubborness prohibits a Final Four. Like somehow Bo Ryan's loosey goosey style is why they made two Final Fours. Like Jim Boeheim's insistence on a 2-3 zone every single year regardless of personnel isn't stubborness or has prohibited Syracuse from making the Final Four.

Right. Getting to F4 just depends on having the right guys, a special group of players that gel, and/or good luck. We've had the right mix before, '11 '14 '15 but just had bad luck to go with. Bo had a very special group in '14 '15 - it wasn't because he was a better coach those years. Luck and the randomness of sports are absolutely a factor. Everything cannot be under control by a coach or players.

This year's AZ team had their moments but they didn't play as a team often enough, esp on offense in crunch times. I'm sick of saying it but we will have our F4 relatively soon. One day the agony will turn to joy.

[97cats]

nobody wants to hear this, but the harsh truth and reality is Arizona did not have a lead guard on the roster who was Final Four quality.

not Allen. not Cartwright. not Simmons.

i stayed off the boards more than normal this year because i was labeled as a hater and someone who had a personal grudge because i thought the PG's were atrocious.

many, many times i mentioned it wasnt personal, but objectively looking at things the most important player on the floor, the leader of the team, initiator, and coach on the floor was absent from this years team in a BIG way.

i said time and time again that it can be masked or even hidden in the regular season(s), against lower level competition and when the games are officiated totally different, but it will always show up in March -- when teams need that leader and lead guard player on their team to be available and to get them over the hump.

Arizona does not have that player.

in some cases the sum of the rest of the parts make that lead player not have to be an All-American (this years Arizona team for example, above average would have been more than enough) and in some cases that player needs to be the All-American (Derrick Rose for example) to put his team on his back.

any program with real Final Four aspirations cant put all their eggs in the baskets of a JUCO transfer two guard playing out of position, a division III back up who played almost 30mins last night (27 f*cking minutes), and an inexperienced and enigmatic freshman who floats in and out and is not battle tested.

i have said all season, this would potentially limit Arizona and how far it would advance in March.

nobody wanted to hear it. nobody.

but the harsh reality is Coach Miller had a Final Four caliber team this year with three awful choices to lead the team at PG and once again last night Arizona was disorganized, scared, and had no leadership.

that is 100% on Coach Miller. all of it.

[Slappy]

97cats:

I look at you as one of the best posters here. I disagree with some of your take though. I agree this is 100% on Miller.

But, this team beat UCLA 2 out of 3 times (should have been 3 out of 3), beat Oregon, took a share of the PAC12 title, and outright tourney champs. The talent was not the issue. UCLA or Oregon should make a final 4 this year, and Arizona beat these teams 3 out of 5 times, that proves Arizona was the better "regular" season team. UCLA has the best PG in the nation, but we still dominated them.

The issue is - the wheels inexplicably fell off at the 3 minute mark. This Arizona roster was the most talented in the west bracket. The question that needs to be asked, is why are Miller's teams always coming up short in the biggest game of the year, why the fear??......I posted my take in the other threads, and the solution.

Edit: I know you'll say it's the lack of PG talent, but you don't beat UCLA badly with the best PG in the nation, or that Oregon team in the title, without superior talent. Fear needs to be replaced with empowerment, trust, and the keys to the kingdom.

[pokinmik]

Plenty of people knew and wanted to hear, 97, including me. It wasn't really his fault last night, but PJC should be nothing more than a limited back-up at AZ. Allen is good but he is far from a point guard, he's a perfect 2guard slasher and defensive specialist. The PG situation is definitely all miller.

We could've and should've won last night regardless. But yes, if we had an elite PG with leadership skills and a jumpshot we win by 15.

[Harvey Specter]

nobody wants to hear this, but the harsh truth and reality is Arizona did not have a lead guard on the roster who was Final Four quality.

not Allen. not Cartwright. not Simmons.

i stayed off the boards more than normal this year because i was labeled as a hater and someone who had a personal grudge because i thought the PG's were atrocious.

many, many times i mentioned it wasnt personal, but objectively looking at things the most important player on the floor, the leader of the team, initiator, and coach on the floor was absent from this years team in a BIG way.

i said time and time again that it can be masked or even hidden in the regular season(s), against lower level competition and when the games are officiated totally different, but it will always show up in March -- when teams need that leader and lead guard player on their team to be available and to get them over the hump.

Arizona does not have that player.

in some cases the sum of the rest of the parts make that lead player not have to be an All-American (this years Arizona team for example, above average would have been more than enough) and in some cases that player needs to be the All-American (Derrick Rose for example) to put his team on his back.

any program with real Final Four aspirations cant put all their eggs in the baskets of a JUCO transfer two guard playing out of position, a division III back up who played almost 30mins last night (27 f*cking minutes), and an inexperienced and enigmatic freshman who floats in and out and is not battle tested.

i have said all season, this would potentially limit Arizona and how far it would advance in March.

nobody wanted to hear it. nobody.

but the harsh reality is Coach Miller had a Final Four caliber team this year with three awful choices to lead the team at PG and once again last night Arizona was disorganized, scared, and had no leadership.

that is 100% on Coach Miller. all of it.

You are an exceptionally valuable member of the community - and your your connections & insights on recruiting are the best thing we get on these forumes - from ANYBODY. But Miller is not the only one who is stubborn.

Josiah Turner was the messiah... well that one eventually got abandoned.
PJC sucks. No he doesn't; he was the PG on this team all year I think we may have been fine. >40% from 3 and a 3.1 A:TO ratio isn't a DIII backup.
Trier is Chauncey Billups. Not even fucking close... and no, he should not have the green light in a big game or the final minutes. He loves him some hero ball.

The loss is on Miller... every one is - and he owns it. No coach is above criticism... but thankfully he stands behind his players more when things go south than this board fan base stands behind him.

With his imperfections, I would not trade him. We will get there when it is our time.

[PHXCATS]

nobody wants to hear this, but the harsh truth and reality is Arizona did not have a lead guard on the roster who was Final Four quality.

not Allen. not Cartwright. not Simmons.

i stayed off the boards more than normal this year because i was labeled as a hater and someone who had a personal grudge because i thought the PG's were atrocious.

many, many times i mentioned it wasnt personal, but objectively looking at things the most important player on the floor, the leader of the team, initiator, and coach on the floor was absent from this years team in a BIG way.

i said time and time again that it can be masked or even hidden in the regular season(s), against lower level competition and when the games are officiated totally different, but it will always show up in March -- when teams need that leader and lead guard player on their team to be available and to get them over the hump.

Arizona does not have that player.

in some cases the sum of the rest of the parts make that lead player not have to be an All-American (this years Arizona team for example, above average would have been more than enough) and in some cases that player needs to be the All-American (Derrick Rose for example) to put his team on his back.

any program with real Final Four aspirations cant put all their eggs in the baskets of a JUCO transfer two guard playing out of position, a division III back up who played almost 30mins last night (27 f*cking minutes), and an inexperienced and enigmatic freshman who floats in and out and is not battle tested.

i have said all season, this would potentially limit Arizona and how far it would advance in March.

nobody wanted to hear it. nobody.

but the harsh reality is Coach Miller had a Final Four caliber team this year with three awful choices to lead the team at PG and once again last night Arizona was disorganized, scared, and had no leadership.

that is 100% on Coach Miller. all of it.

It is on Miller but he is a very good coach and will hopefully adapt.

As for the guards maybe you are correct but Trier's shot almost went in and the pg position has nothing to do with Todd from Wedding Crashers going off or no post defense or Lauri disappearing (at least 100% on the pg position)

[97cats]

You are an exceptionally valuable member of the community - and your your connections & insights on recruiting are the best thing we get on these forumes - from ANYBODY. But Miller is not the only one who is stubborn.

thank you, i think

Josiah Turner was the messiah... well that one eventually got abandoned.

Turner was a HUGE miss -- im not sure what the abandoned part is for but ive said many, many times that my opinion was way off the results. guess who else, Sean Miller too.

PJC sucks. No he doesn't; he was the PG on this team all year I think we may have been fine. >40% from 3 and a 3.1 A:TO ratio isn't a DIII backup.

he is weak, small, cant create his own shot, cant score, and is a god awful defender who gets pushed around at will on both ends. and with all that, his biggest flaw is his leaderless attitude and mopey demeanor that just exudes 'poor me' he should never see the floor for a team with real aspirations of a FF -- ever.

that was proven again last night but it goes beyond last night, its the god awful choice by the head cheese to go with him 27 fucking minutes last night and frankly all season under false pretense.
Cartwright might look good against Cal State Bakersfield and Texas Southern, but he is completely over-matched when the grind gets grinding and the games get tougher -- March

Cartwright wouldnt get a single minute playing for Xavier -- zero. yet he plays 27+ for Arizona in the Sweet 16.

Trier is Chauncey Billups. Not even fucking close... and no, he should not have the green light in a big game or the final minutes. He loves him some hero ball.

this is a cherry pick, he had 9 board three assists and 19 points last night in a game where he couldnt throw it in the ocean for a half and was the only player that actually could do much of anything. his body make-up and the way he shoots reminds me of Billups.

The loss is on Miller... every one is - and he owns it. No coach is above criticism... but thankfully he stands behind his players more when things go south than this board fan base stands behind him.

im the biggest Sean Miller fan on the planet, but im also a man who can admit when bad decisions have been made. his faith in a two guard JUCO transfer, a raw freshman, and a undersized, limited, leaderless, and over-matched Junior to play lead guard is all his fault.

With his imperfections, I would not trade him. We will get there when it is our time.

agree -- wouldnt trade or replace him with any coach in the nation, but he needs to adjust his style a bit and he needs to not have 5'6 120 pound PG playing 27+ mins in the Sweet 16 either.

[CalStateTempe]

With his imperfections, I would not trade him. We will get there when it is our time.

Hey Harv, despite last nights game and the post game discussion on here, I want to be clear that I am right here with you on this.

Great discussion in this thread. I would be crushed if when Miller decides to leave. We owe that man so much for all the joy he has brought post Lute. We are very lucky. We could've very well ended up like Indiana or nc state. And almost did if not for coach cal. I'll always remember that.

[billk78]

nobody wants to hear this, but the harsh truth and reality is Arizona did not have a lead guard on the roster who was Final Four quality.

not Allen. not Cartwright. not Simmons.

i stayed off the boards more than normal this year because i was labeled as a hater and someone who had a personal grudge because i thought the PG's were atrocious.

many, many times i mentioned it wasnt personal, but objectively looking at things the most important player on the floor, the leader of the team, initiator, and coach on the floor was absent from this years team in a BIG way.

i said time and time again that it can be masked or even hidden in the regular season(s), against lower level competition and when the games are officiated totally different, but it will always show up in March -- when teams need that leader and lead guard player on their team to be available and to get them over the hump.

Arizona does not have that player.

in some cases the sum of the rest of the parts make that lead player not have to be an All-American (this years Arizona team for example, above average would have been more than enough) and in some cases that player needs to be the All-American (Derrick Rose for example) to put his team on his back.

any program with real Final Four aspirations cant put all their eggs in the baskets of a JUCO transfer two guard playing out of position, a division III back up who played almost 30mins last night (27 f*cking minutes), and an inexperienced and enigmatic freshman who floats in and out and is not battle tested.

i have said all season, this would potentially limit Arizona and how far it would advance in March.

nobody wanted to hear it. nobody.

but the harsh reality is Coach Miller had a Final Four caliber team this year with three awful choices to lead the team at PG and once again last night Arizona was disorganized, scared, and had no leadership.

that is 100% on Coach Miller. all of it.

A lot of good points but I want to touch on the one regarding PJC's demeanor and body language. At many points last night he had his head hung, looked miserable and like he wanted to be anywhere else but fighting for a spot in the elite 8. At the time I dismissed it as being mad and wanting to win....but I'm not sure that's it. Him, along with Trier, didn't have that "it" facotr when it comes to leadership and body language. Did anyone ever see TJ put his head down and sulk? Or continously whine at the refs (although he would stare them down). This year's team definitely lacked a motivator, a fighter, a true leader on the court. Alkins could become that. Kadeem did his best to fill the void and always played hard. But yeah, PJC needs to stop sulking, whining and flopping. It rubs off on the rest of the team.

[HiCat]

Arizona's Sean Miller says he got outcoached by Xavier's Chris Mack

Josh Peter , USA TODAY Sports Published 2:49 a.m. ET March 24, 2017 | Updated 8 hours ago


SAN JOSE — Arizona coach Sean Miller was pointing fingers after his second-seeded Wildcats lost to No. 11 Xavier 73-71 Thursday night at the SAP Center.

He pointed them mostly at himself, suggesting he was outcoached by his counterpart, Xavier’s Chris Mack.

“He had his way with us tonight,’’ Miller said of Mack, one of Miller’s former assistants. “He called plays, after timeouts, underneath out of bounds, he got his players some great shots.’’

A couple of minutes into Miller’s postgame press conference, while detailing his team’s struggles, he said, “Equally disappointed in myself.’’

“You know,’’ he continued, “our team never really ever established great confidence against the zone. And I think in some ways that was the reason, defensively, that we weren't as good as we usually are or maybe better than we needed to be, because the game never really felt good.

“And that's on me.’’

Miller also said he was to blame for offensive struggles. The Wildcats shot 43.5% from the field and 25.9% from three-point range.

“Your job when you get to this area, when you get to this level of college basketball, your best players gotta be confident,’’ Miller said. “We have to get them shots. I don't care what defense they're playing — 1-3-1, 2-3, man-to-man — and I don't feel we did that tonight. And that's probably the worst feeling you can have as a coach.’’


http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nc ... /99571384/" target="_blank

[Hank of sb]

Miller is too stubborn to evolve. Lute Olson he is not.

Love Miller, love his passion, but this is as far as we can go with him.

Miller is an elite recruiter
Miller is an elite one on one coach and maker of men
Miller is a mid-major level in-game coach.

that's basically what we are dealing with. I don't think you fire him and risk the class coming in next year, but his leash should be short now.

Wow. Just caught this. Bold stuff from the both of you, and to my mind, right on.

All this talk about PJC being short is just talk. The problem is the coach. He just won't STOP coaching.

Sure, recruit Alonzo Ball to be your PG and everything might fix itself.

And why is that? Because AB (I'm talking the talent now; AB is a metaphor) wouldn't bother looking towards the bench during the game; the talent knows what to do and, more importantly, what he's going to do, whether the coach likes it or not.

[ChooChooCat]

Who the hell are you guys kidding? Sean Miller has no god damn leash, he just came off a 32 win season, won the conference, conference tourney, conference coach of the year, and was up for national coach of the year. Don't be stupid. There is nobody Arizona could hire that would be better regardless of all his faults as many as there are. Don't be dense because you're emotional. He's not perfect and he needs to adapt and that's fine. He's still in no way shape or form in danger of being on any sort of leash any time soon.

[SCCats]

Who the hell are you guys kidding? Sean Miller has no god damn leash, he just came off a 32 win season, won the conference, conference tourney, conference coach of the year, and was up for national coach of the year. Don't be stupid. There is nobody Arizona could hire that would be better regardless of all his faults as many as there are. Don't be dense because you're emotional. He's not perfect and he needs to adapt and that's fine. He's still in no way shape or form in danger of being on any sort of leash any time soon.

It's...I'll say "interesting"...how all that incredible goodwill goes up in smoke when we underperform our seed in the tournament by one game.

[midnightx]

Way too much overreaction here. He is one of the elite coaches in the game. He didn't put D Williams in 1st half foul trouble against UConn in '11, which drastically changed that game, a game that was still almost won for a Final Four birth. He didn't break Ashley's foot, turning perhaps the most dominant team in AZ history into just a very good team, barely losing to Wisconsin in the Elite 8. Throughout the last several seasons, he has won many huge games against elite programs and coaches.

[Hank of sb]

Who the hell are you guys kidding? Sean Miller has no god damn leash, he just came off a 32 win season, won the conference, conference tourney, conference coach of the year, and was up for national coach of the year. Don't be stupid. There is nobody Arizona could hire that would be better regardless of all his faults as many as there are. Don't be dense because you're emotional. He's not perfect and he needs to adapt and that's fine. He's still in no way shape or form in danger of being on any sort of leash any time soon.

ChooChoo, I think the point is, to some, SM's likely not going to "ADAPT."

We already know SM's not 'literally' on a short leash. Whether he should be or not.

And of course, we all know no one's perfect.

Fans just want the best chance to advance further after the regular season's end. And fans differ and what brings that best chance.

Whether some fans are more stupid or whether there "is nobody better," as you said, is the reason for this discussion.

Declarative statements notwithstanding.

And the reason for this thread.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Fans who talk about Miller being on a leash make me ashamed to be an Arizona fan.

[ChooChooCat]

Who the hell are you guys kidding? Sean Miller has no god damn leash, he just came off a 32 win season, won the conference, conference tourney, conference coach of the year, and was up for national coach of the year. Don't be stupid. There is nobody Arizona could hire that would be better regardless of all his faults as many as there are. Don't be dense because you're emotional. He's not perfect and he needs to adapt and that's fine. He's still in no way shape or form in danger of being on any sort of leash any time soon.

ChooChoo, I think the point is, to some, SM's likely not going to "ADAPT."

We already know SM's not 'literally' on a short leash. Whether he should be or not.

And of course, we all know no one's perfect.

Fans just want the best chance to advance further after the regular season's end. And fans differ and what brings that best chance.

Whether some fans are more stupid or whether there "is nobody better," as you said, is the reason for this discussion.

Declarative statements notwithstanding.

And the reason for this thread.

I certainly don't disagree with any of that Hank. I just think it's absolutely asinine to suggest that a guy who came off the season Miller just had, whether falling short of overall expectations or not, would be on a short leash is a joke and obviously not realistic in any way.

[billk78]

Thought this article was on point. Mentions several other great coaches who didn't win a Final Four in first 10 years of coaching. Also discusses that anything can happen in a "one and done" style playoff like the tournament.

https://www.fanragsports.com/cbb/tone-d ... greatness/" target="_blank

[PieceOfMeat]

I expect to see a lot more zone from Arizona next year.

Funny.

Very funny.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Let me just toss this out there. We've made the Sweet 16 five times in seven years under Sean Miller.

Unless my analysis is bad, Lute Olson never made the Sweet 16 five times in seven years while at Arizona.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona ... basketball" target="_blank

[billk78]

Let me just toss this out there. We've made the Sweet 16 five times in seven years under Sean Miller.

Unless my analysis is bad, Lute Olson never made the Sweet 16 five times in seven years while at Arizona.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona ... basketball" target="_blank

Yep...from the article I posted:

"In six NCAA Tournament appearances with Arizona, he has failed to make the Sweet Sixteen only once. He has averaged 27.5 wins per season. His Zona teams have technically outperformed their seeding twice in those six appearances."

But he has a short leash

[CalStateTempe]

I never said Miller was on a leash, I said that he has a leash for his players and short ones for point guards. His substitution patterns reflect this. And this affects who will come and play especially at point where creativity is necessary.

Reading comprehension people.

For the record I wouldnt trade anyone for Miller and he'll get there eventually. I just hope its with us.

[PennZona20]

I bet whenever Miller does the kick the door in on a regional final, it's a blowout.

Hopefully it's in Tucson not Chapel Hill.

I will bet anyone $1,000 he makes a final 4 in the next 5 seasons.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Let me just toss this out there. We've made the Sweet 16 five times in seven years under Sean Miller.

Unless my analysis is bad, Lute Olson never made the Sweet 16 five times in seven years while at Arizona.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona ... basketball" target="_blank

Yep...from the article I posted:

"In six NCAA Tournament appearances with Arizona, he has failed to make the Sweet Sixteen only once. He has averaged 27.5 wins per season. His Zona teams have technically outperformed their seeding twice in those six appearances."

But he has a short leash

If Miller's on a short leash, Lute should have been fired around 1993.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I never said Miller was on a leash, I said that he has a leash for his players and short ones for point guards. His substitution patterns reflect this. And this affects who will come and play especially at point where creativity is necessary.

Reading comprehension people.

For the record I wouldnt trade anyone for Miller and he'll get there eventually. I just hope its with us.

It's splitsecond's post that has the short leash part that gets my goat.

[billk78]

I never said Miller was on a leash, I said that he has a leash for his players and short ones for point guards. His substitution patterns reflect this. And this affects who will come and play especially at point where creativity is necessary.

Reading comprehension people.

For the record I wouldnt trade anyone for Miller and he'll get there eventually. I just hope its with us.

It's splitsecond's post that has the short leash part that gets my goat.

Same one I was referring to.

[CalStateTempe]

Well, then I should take my advice.

[dovecanyoncat]

I never said Miller was on a leash, I said that he has a leash for his players and short ones for point guards. His substitution patterns reflect this. And this affects who will come and play especially at point where creativity is necessary.

Watching UCLA's and UK's guard work and probe right now brings home how restricted our guards are. It 's a much more lovely game to watch these teams play. No wonder many, many top level kids wanna go play there.

[Hank of sb]

Let me just toss this out there. We've made the Sweet 16 five times in seven years under Sean Miller.

Unless my analysis is bad, Lute Olson never made the Sweet 16 five times in seven years while at Arizona.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona ... basketball" target="_blank

Steve Lavin did the EXACT same thing.

Arizona's been to the S-16 a zillion times now. We've won the Pac10/12 more than anybody. Same for the Pac Tourney.

It's time to move on. (It took forever to get rid of Steve Lavin (as well, Georgia's football coach Mark Richt given as another analogy.)

I'm not sure you are making the point you are trying to make.

That loss yesterday looked ENTIRELY the fault of our coach. Indeed, if the coach had been sick, I wonder if Arizona wouldn't have won readily.

The coach, to my eye, was the 'player' (easily) the most in the way of victory.

That's the other "analysis."

[ChooChooCat]

Let me just toss this out there. We've made the Sweet 16 five times in seven years under Sean Miller.

Unless my analysis is bad, Lute Olson never made the Sweet 16 five times in seven years while at Arizona.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona ... basketball" target="_blank

Steve Lavin did the EXACT same thing.

Arizona's been to the S-16 a zillion times now. We've won the Pac10/12 more than anybody. Same for the Pac Tourney.

It's time to move on. (It took forever to get rid of Steve Lavin (as well, Georgia's football coach Mark Richt given as another analogy.)

I'm not sure you are making the point you are trying to make.

That loss yesterday looked ENTIRELY the fault of our coach. Indeed, if the coach had been sick, I wonder if Arizona wouldn't have won readily.

The coach, to my eye, was the 'player' (easily) the most in the way of victory.

That's the other "analysis."

Lavin coached at UCLA 7 years total, made the Elite 8 with Harrick's players and then never again, won the conference that first year and then never again and was fired after a 10-19 season. Miller has lived off his own players and not his predecessor for one and for two the second he has a 10-19 season or something similar then maybe you'd have a leg to stand on, but until then you're merely yelling at the wall.

I hate the Mark Richt comparison too btw. BCS vs NCAA Tournament does not work.