Bear Down Wildcats

It took a great deal of effort for us to play up to our potential. A&M looked more comfortable and in rhythm, and often in the camera closeups of their guards they hardly seemed to be sweating. Effort is still key for us.

One thing we could learn from A&M's really good D: they faceguard/pressure their man all the way to the perimeter pass and always have a hand out as the ball comes in. There were 3-5 times our slow telegraphed motion passes just b-a-r-e-l-y got there. Trier and some of the Freshmen are almost nodding off with their passes.

Another thing: we talk about not having Ristic on the floor with Ayton, but how often against an opponent like this will a pass from anybody other than Ayton turn out well for Ristic?

Merkin wrote:I see a lot of potential to be a great team. But some things still need a lot of work:

Chicat wrote:I can’t remember the last time I was this uninspired by a win.

It was probably going 11 minutes without a FG in the 2nd half and then some real crappy play in the final minutes which has me so meh right now. Feels like we have a long way to go.

1. The Trier ISO on Hogg when Hogg had 4 fouls. Dribble for 25 seconds then make a terrible pass? Bet the NBA scouts just shook their collective heads. Reminded me so much of Miller letting Gabe York do that, then York ends up dribbling it off his foot.
2. Fouling the aTm 3 point shooter in the act of shooting? That ball almost went in. Would have been game over the way the UA offense stagnated. If you are going to foul, foul before the ball handler crosses half court. 2 shots at best. Why didn't Miller put PJC downcourt then to slow the ball handler down anyway like he did end of game?
3. PJC throwing the ball in, when he has had trouble all game. Don't you think you would want your best ball handler ON THE COURT when a press is on? Besides PJC being way to short to throw it over big guys. Walton made a good point about Ristic throwing it in being quite a bit tall with much longer arms.

Cats were bailed out by a couple of marginal calls too. That travel on the aTm player getting ready to dunk. Yes it was, but at the point you just want to let them play. Same with the holding foul against Randolph when PJC was about to get whistled for a 5 second call.

On the reffing. I get the point, but I never really like the idea of swallowing the whistle on stuff you'd otherwise call. If the refs let the travel go, there's a foul at the end and the shot misses. Do you also not call the foul to let the players decide it?

The reffing was largely consistent all night and that's the best you can really ask for. Neither call was out of the norm for what was drawing a whistle last night.

I understand the argument about letting the players decide it but don't agree. You have to blow the whistle the same way you have all night or people just start hammering each other.

We beat a good team last night, period. A&M will challenge UK for the SEC title, and they’ll be a 3 or 4 seed in the NCAA tourney. That win will look very good on Selection Sunday.

dovecanyoncat wrote:It took a great deal of effort for us to play up to our potential. A&M looked more comfortable and in rhythm, and often in the camera closeups of their guards they hardly seemed to be sweating. Effort is still key for us.

One thing we could learn from A&M's really good D: they faceguard/pressure their man all the way to the perimeter pass and always have a hand out as the ball comes in. There were 3-5 times our slow telegraphed motion passes just b-a-r-e-l-y got there. Trier and some of the Freshmen are almost nodding off with their passes.

Another thing: we talk about not having Ristic on the floor with Ayton, but how often against an opponent like this will a pass from anybody other than Ayton turn out well for Ristic?

The off ball pressure runs directly contrary to packline principles. We should not take that from aTm unless we're completely dismantling the packline because attempting that kills the help principles of packline.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: I understand the argument about letting the players decide it but don't agree. You have to blow the whistle the same way you have all night or people just start hammering each other.

Most definitely agree. Like ODogg said, that player was doing it all night. You just need to call it every time.

Think it was the UNLV game, and maybe once in Nassau, where Trier was called for palming.

I see that multiple times a game where it's not called. Really bugs me to no end when a player is driving towards the basket, picks up the ball like a football, and carries to the basket where he lays it in. My understanding of the palming rule is that the ball cannot come to rest while you are moving.

I dunno...being at a game live is a completely different experience, and refreshing not to hear the "analysis" from the TV broadcasters. There were several out of bounds calls that were missed, and there were often foul calls that made zero sense.

Look at it this way...if I remember correctly there was only one shooting foul in the 1st half...Ayton I believe, and it was late into the half. In the 2nd there were so many that it was hard to remember.

I don't understand how a player is knocked to the ground on the drive, and then gets called for a foul when the player who knocked him down gets the ball and begins to head the other way. I don't understand how a ref can "let them play" and bang inside, and then call an off the ball or a reach in.

There were so many plays that a player was allowed to switch pivots, and to take a step without a dribble on a drive.

But to question the last blatant travel was ridiculous. I was in the 4th row behind the basket and can attest that there were awful calls all game, especially in the 2nd. If the narrative is going to be that Arizona escaped with help from the officiating, that is to discount the numerous ridiculous calls that went in favor of Texas A&M.

Merkin wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote: I understand the argument about letting the players decide it but don't agree. You have to blow the whistle the same way you have all night or people just start hammering each other.

Most definitely agree. Like ODogg said, that player was doing it all night. You just need to call it every time.

Think it was the UNLV game, and maybe once in Nassau, where Trier was called for palming.

I see that multiple times a game where it's not called. Really bugs me to no end when a player is driving towards the basket, picks up the ball like a football, and carries to the basket where he lays it in. My understanding of the palming rule is that the ball cannot come to rest while you are moving.

There are a few areas where reffing is almost 100% judgment about where the limits are in a particular game. Off the top of my head, the main areas are palming, traveling, hand checking and block/charge. There are a ton of plays that implicate those areas.

The best the refs can do is make consistent calls in those areas. Nothing is worse than a game where the refs whistle a lot of handchecks, then abruptly stop calling those same things. I rip on Pac refs and that's what makes me crazy, when the calls go in spurts.

I don't really care where the limits are as long as they're consistent. With consistency, players can adjust and get in rhythm. When you never know what a foul is or what will draw a palming/travel call, the flow of the game is always terrible.

I will also say this--don't know if the TV caught this--but Miller completely lost his shit a couple times this game. In the first half it was after the uncontested layup (after a blown out of bounds call) on the inbound under A & M basket and he punched an invisible man near the scorers table.

Then in the 2nd, Dylan Smith went under a screen and his man drove right to the rim and scored. Miller called a TO and stared down Dylan who just walked by him not establishing eye contact and Miller destroyed a clipboard throwing it to the ground. It actually made a significant crash and managers ran out with multiple replacements. I am pretty sure that Miller is going to rip a player's head off before this year is over.

The travel call was obvious. I yelled, "travel" right when it happened. Davis shuffled his feet and then took three steps without a dribble. Watching it at regular speed it's obvious. And I'm not sure the foul by Ayton with 2 seconds left was legit either. When the actual foul happened, A&M's Wilson wasn't shooting. As soon as the contact was made, he gathered the ball and took the shot. But he wasn't in the act of shooting when the foul happened.

On another note, I hate the Euro step. It's a travel, plain and simple. You can't change direction to avoid a defender when you've picked up your dribble.

Also, if I were to tell this board that Trier and Ayton would be a combined 6-16 in this game there isn't one person on here that would have said Arizona would win. Not a single person.

Merkin wrote:I see a lot of potential to be a great team. But some things still need a lot of work:

Chicat wrote:I can’t remember the last time I was this uninspired by a win.

It was probably going 11 minutes without a FG in the 2nd half and then some real crappy play in the final minutes which has me so meh right now. Feels like we have a long way to go.

1. The Trier ISO on Hogg when Hogg had 4 fouls. Dribble for 25 seconds then make a terrible pass? Bet the NBA scouts just shook their collective heads. Reminded me so much of Miller letting Gabe York do that, then York ends up dribbling it off his foot.
2. Fouling the aTm 3 point shooter in the act of shooting? That ball almost went in. Would have been game over the way the UA offense stagnated. If you are going to foul, foul before the ball handler crosses half court. 2 shots at best. Why didn't Miller put PJC downcourt then to slow the ball handler down anyway like he did end of game?
3. PJC throwing the ball in, when he has had trouble all game. Don't you think you would want your best ball handler ON THE COURT when a press is on? Besides PJC being way to short to throw it over big guys. Walton made a good point about Ristic throwing it in being quite a bit tall with much longer arms.

Cats were bailed out by a couple of marginal calls too. That travel on the aTm player getting ready to dunk. Yes it was, but at the point you just want to let them play. Same with the holding foul against Randolph when PJC was about to get whistled for a 5 second call.

Jesus. You want Ristic throwing the ball in?

HOLY. JESUS.

A&M was committing a foul on every inbound in the last minute. That's what teams do when they're desperate. It's up to the officials to enforce the rules. A smart team will push the rules as far as they can and make the refs call something (see Illinois-AZ '05).

Ugly win for sure but keeping it big picture, the energy, effort and spirit was great to see. Showed up in the 2nd half the other night in Vegas for the first time this season and stuck around last night. As Miller said, that needs to be the standard.

More of a glass half full feeling from me after this one. Overall team defense was better last night, though not without some glaring lapses already highlighted and discussed.

Cannot stand how we take the air out of the ball to close the half and the game with the lead (which was only 3! last night). Hate being a broken record, but it's unreal to me. Just. Un. Real.

Great to see Parker hit that huge three in the waning moments.

Maybe the best thing I saw last night was the 12-year old Arizona kid saying "WTF!" right there on national TV during the floor-level slow-mo replay of the intentional foul on Randolph. Gotta be a GIF out there somewhere. Made my night.

zonagrad wrote:A&M was committing a foul on every inbound in the last minute. That's what teams do when they're desperate. It's up to the officials to enforce the rules. A smart team will push the rules as far as they can and make the refs call something (see Illinois-AZ '05).

Do I have to see that game? I wish I hadn't seen it to begin with.

Maybe I'm crazy, but I sort of like Ayton inbounding in those situations. Huge, mobile and has shown good passing ability. Yes, he's young and you worry about his judgment in those situations, but all our options have downsides.

Olsondogg wrote:I will also say this--don't know if the TV caught this--but Miller completely lost his shit a couple times this game. In the first half it was after the uncontested layup (after a blown out of bounds call) on the inbound under A & M basket and he punched an invisible man near the scorers table.

Then in the 2nd, Dylan Smith went under a screen and his man drove right to the rim and scored. Miller called a TO and stared down Dylan who just walked by him not establishing eye contact and Miller destroyed a clipboard throwing it to the ground. It actually made a significant crash and managers ran out with multiple replacements. I am pretty sure that Miller is going to rip a player's head off before this year is over.

I saw both of these incidents on TV. Man, Sean can be intense.

Pop McKale wrote: Maybe the best thing I saw last night was the 12-year old Arizona kid saying "WTF!" right there on national TV during the floor-level slow-mo replay of the intentional foul on Randolph. Gotta be a GIF out there somewhere. Made my night.

Ha, that was hilarius

YES this was a huge win no matter how ugly it was. if nothing else but for the psyche of the team.

The defense last night was the best all season and even though we got outrebounded 30-29 I thought everyone did a good job hitting the glass hard especially down the stretch.

While the offense struggled against a pretty formidable defense (shit, they had 10 friggin steals) it was good to see others steps up besides Ayton & Trier. Ristic, Randolph and Smith each had 13 points.

Things to work on obviously:

- inbounds D under our basket. I can understand it happening once but 4 times???!!! Geez.
- fouling to avoid a 3 point shot at the end of the game. Heck, we did it correctly vs. UNLV so can't understand the brain fart there.

I think this team is trending up which is all we can hope for after the Bahamas disaster. Now let's just get Rawle back and steamroll the rest of the season.

zonagrad wrote:A&M was committing a foul on every inbound in the last minute. That's what teams do when they're desperate. It's up to the officials to enforce the rules. A smart team will push the rules as far as they can and make the refs call something (see Illinois-AZ '05).

You think with all the issues PJC had throwing the ball in, they would have just waited to foul until the ball was thrown in. Didn't every single person think that PJC was whistled for 5 seconds when Randolph was fouled before the ball was thrown in?

Olsondogg wrote:I will also say this--don't know if the TV caught this--but Miller completely lost his shit a couple times this game. In the first half it was after the uncontested layup (after a blown out of bounds call) on the inbound under A & M basket and he punched an invisible man near the scorers table.

Then in the 2nd, Dylan Smith went under a screen and his man drove right to the rim and scored. Miller called a TO and stared down Dylan who just walked by him not establishing eye contact and Miller destroyed a clipboard throwing it to the ground. It actually made a significant crash and managers ran out with multiple replacements. I am pretty sure that Miller is going to rip a player's head off before this year is over.

My buddy was at the game and texted me the same thing

Merkin wrote:

zonagrad wrote:A&M was committing a foul on every inbound in the last minute. That's what teams do when they're desperate. It's up to the officials to enforce the rules. A smart team will push the rules as far as they can and make the refs call something (see Illinois-AZ '05).

You think with all the issues PJC had throwing the ball in, they would have just waited to foul until the ball was thrown in. Didn't every single person think that PJC was whistled for 5 seconds when Randolph was fouled before the ball was thrown in?

PJC had issues throwing the ball in because nobody got open. And part of the reason nobody was open was because A&M players were holding Arizona players. Refs are gonna allow some contact on an inbounds. But when you're holding a player's arm or jersey, they're gonna call it. Trier was being held as well. The problem is, only two refs are actually watching the 8 players on the court. The third ref is on the baseline and is focused on the guy inbounding the ball and the defender guarding him.

scumdevils86 wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:I will also say this--don't know if the TV caught this--but Miller completely lost his shit a couple times this game. In the first half it was after the uncontested layup (after a blown out of bounds call) on the inbound under A & M basket and he punched an invisible man near the scorers table.

Then in the 2nd, Dylan Smith went under a screen and his man drove right to the rim and scored. Miller called a TO and stared down Dylan who just walked by him not establishing eye contact and Miller destroyed a clipboard throwing it to the ground. It actually made a significant crash and managers ran out with multiple replacements. I am pretty sure that Miller is going to rip a player's head off before this year is over.

My buddy was at the game and texted me the same thing

I think we gave up 3 uncontested layups off of blown inbounds plays. Miller was apoplectic on the first one, which I think was on Barcello. Then Smith & perhaps Randolph were guilty on the others. I really think Miller needs to pull video of past years to show players how to defend. Maybe the lightbulb will go on. Otherwise, I fear Miller may rupture a blood vessel in his head.

zonagrad wrote:

scumdevils86 wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:I will also say this--don't know if the TV caught this--but Miller completely lost his shit a couple times this game. In the first half it was after the uncontested layup (after a blown out of bounds call) on the inbound under A & M basket and he punched an invisible man near the scorers table.

Then in the 2nd, Dylan Smith went under a screen and his man drove right to the rim and scored. Miller called a TO and stared down Dylan who just walked by him not establishing eye contact and Miller destroyed a clipboard throwing it to the ground. It actually made a significant crash and managers ran out with multiple replacements. I am pretty sure that Miller is going to rip a player's head off before this year is over.

My buddy was at the game and texted me the same thing

I think we gave up 3 uncontested layups off of blown inbounds plays. Miller was apoplectic on the first one, which I think was on Barcello. Then Smith & perhaps Randolph were guilty on the others. I really think Miller needs to pull video of past years to show players how to defend. Maybe the lightbulb will go on. Otherwise, I fear Miller may rupture a blood vessel in his head.

Yeah. I had my heart in my throat for inbounds plays. It should not be like that.

It's December. One of the real positives for me is that we have obvious room for improvement, yet still won a game against a legit top ten team.

Exactly. Room for improvement, not a perfect team or perfect effort, but damn good win and very nice that this team can now win when it is not play its best vs a very good team.

There were too many breakdown to be completely happy but I thought the help defense looked a lot better last night than it did all season.

And the clipboard break was amazing to see courtside.

Yes, there is still much work to do, but to beat a legit Top 10 team on an 'almost' neutral court with minimal input from Ayton and Trier this soon after the Bahamas Voodoo curse is huge, HUGE! I admit I thought it would take longer to right the ship. Whew! I'm glad that my reverse jinx worked.;-].

Beat Alabama soundly in a well played game and I'll be mostly convinced that we're over the Bahamas.

scumdevils86 wrote:Beat Alabama soundly in a well played game and I'll be mostly convinced that we're over the Bahamas.

We're going to win. I'd say by 5 to 10 points. Not sure if that's "soundly."

I predicted with spiff last week that we would get these wins.

Still thinking we do and run the table on the non con.

Not perfect but good to see improvement and get the wins.

gumby wrote:
Still, simple tasks elude the players. Like defending inbounds under the hoop or deliberately fouling near the halfcourt line. (If that shot goes in, Ayton erases the image of Jamelle Horne).

An ugly game. Happy to have the win. But miles to go before we sleep.

As for the feeling of watching these games, the comparison is '05-'06. You know, when Hassan Adams was apparently playing drunk, Shakur kept stepping out of bounds, Marcus Williams baffled us twice every half, J.P. Prince sported his shaky high dribble, Kirk Walters couldn't catch or hold onto the ball, Fendi Onobun played basketball with all the skill and strength of a horse, and nobody on the team could shoot a 3-pointer, forcing Lute to actually forbid the team from attempting them.

You don't watch that team or this team sunk into the sofa. You watch them with your buttocks clenched, and your stomach cringing. Missed shots galore, and jackassery all around.

But the most important difference between the two teams is Ayton.

Hopes:

1) PJC is gonna turn that corner and keep on moving forward.
2) Trier will learn to let the game come to him, and make good decisions under pressure.
3) Lee is going to get some burn, and take on much of the hedging responsibilities.
4) Randolph can develop into a consistent contributor (I'm not hoping for Akot at this point).
5) Both Ayton and the team will develop an offense centered on Ayton (that includes shooting well from deep).
6) Rawle Alkins comes back soon.

I'm relieved the bleeding has stopped.

Longhorned wrote: 5) Both Ayton and the team will develop an offense centered on Ayton (that includes shooting well from deep).

My dad and I email back and forth constantly during the game, and one thing my dad keeps repeating is:

FEED THE POST!

We all saw how well the aTm guards got it to Davis down low. Just a shame the UA guards can't do the same. Even though Walton said Davis was the best big on the court, he was, Walton also said Ayton is the best big man since Shaq.

Couple comments from someone who is, admittedly, a casual bball fan:
1. Calling this a neutral court game is funny, the crowd was easily 80% Arizona with the other 20% from GCU going for Arizona. When their guard was shooting the free-throws at the end, the GCU students were going nuts and may have helped make him miss. Great to see.
2. Our plays out of the time outs are mind boggling bad. Same goes for inbound plays.
3. Randolf and Smith's play was very encouraging. Barcello, I'll be honest, I can't remember much of him. Ira Lee...good D but his passing sucks.
4. Pointguard U? The ball movement is piss poor, can't feed the post, turnovers, mediocre shooting, clumsy at best. The non-existing movement off-the-ball doesn't help. (all that said PJC's 3 pointer was awesome)
5. It was so awesome to be able to buy alcohol before and during the game. Expensive as fuck but it was just Merica at its best. (is Mckale selling liquor yet, I thought they applied for a license?)
6. Why does every team seem to easily pass the ball around and find an open man against us but we struggle for an open shot? Is Miller's offensive scheme the problem? This whole weave thing we do to pass the ball around seems so awkward and just messes up the spacing. I just don't get it. Doesn't seem NBA-like.

UALoco wrote:Couple comments from someone who is, admittedly, a casual bball fan:
1. Calling this a neutral court game is funny, the crowd was easily 80% Arizona with the other 20% from GCU going for Arizona. When their guard was shooting the free-throws at the end, the GCU students were going nuts and may have helped make him miss. Great to see.

The court was neutral. It's just that the stands weren't.

An optics study proved that all that motion in the stands does nothing to distract a free-throw shooter. It's just for fun.

The same study concluded that you could distract a shooter if you did it differently: Slow, coordinated movement of all fans in every row to the right for a short distance, followed by the same slow movement back to the left, until he shoots. That would disorient his visual relationship to the rim. Not as fun, though.

Longhorned wrote:

UALoco wrote:Couple comments from someone who is, admittedly, a casual bball fan:
1. Calling this a neutral court game is funny, the crowd was easily 80% Arizona with the other 20% from GCU going for Arizona. When their guard was shooting the free-throws at the end, the GCU students were going nuts and may have helped make him miss. Great to see.

The same study concluded that you could distract a shooter if you did it differently: Slow, coordinated movement of all fans in every row to the right for a short distance, followed by the same slow movement back to the left, until he shoots. That would disorient his visual relationship to the rim. Not as fun, though.

That's what they do at Duke.

CalStateTempe wrote:

Longhorned wrote:

UALoco wrote:Couple comments from someone who is, admittedly, a casual bball fan:
1. Calling this a neutral court game is funny, the crowd was easily 80% Arizona with the other 20% from GCU going for Arizona. When their guard was shooting the free-throws at the end, the GCU students were going nuts and may have helped make him miss. Great to see.

The same study concluded that you could distract a shooter if you did it differently: Slow, coordinated movement of all fans in every row to the right for a short distance, followed by the same slow movement back to the left, until he shoots. That would disorient his visual relationship to the rim. Not as fun, though.

That's what they do at Duke.

Is that what they're doing? I thought they were just being nerdy.

CalStateTempe wrote:

Longhorned wrote:

UALoco wrote:Couple comments from someone who is, admittedly, a casual bball fan:
1. Calling this a neutral court game is funny, the crowd was easily 80% Arizona with the other 20% from GCU going for Arizona. When their guard was shooting the free-throws at the end, the GCU students were going nuts and may have helped make him miss. Great to see.

The same study concluded that you could distract a shooter if you did it differently: Slow, coordinated movement of all fans in every row to the right for a short distance, followed by the same slow movement back to the left, until he shoots. That would disorient his visual relationship to the rim. Not as fun, though.

That's what they do at Duke.

Duke's opponents shoot free throws at Cameron? Maybe like 1 or 2 times a season. I think you're lying about this entire scenario.

zonagrad wrote:The travel call was obvious. I yelled, "travel" right when it happened. Davis shuffled his feet and then took three steps without a dribble. Watching it at regular speed it's obvious. And I'm not sure the foul by Ayton with 2 seconds left was legit either. When the actual foul happened, A&M's Wilson wasn't shooting. As soon as the contact was made, he gathered the ball and took the shot. But he wasn't in the act of shooting when the foul happened.

On another note, I hate the Euro step. It's a travel, plain and simple. You can't change direction to avoid a defender when you've picked up your dribble.

I don't know, once he gets possession he gets two steps. He only took two steps after catching it imo.

The Wilson 3PT attempt was close, I would lean to non-shooting foul but can see it called the other way. The initial contact is before he starts shooting but you are allowed to touch someone without that being a foul. When he actually fouls him is close.

The euro step being a travel is a bad take. You get two steps after you pick up your dribble, don't see why changing direction should have any influence whether something is a travel or not.

SunnyAZ wrote:

zonagrad wrote:The travel call was obvious. I yelled, "travel" right when it happened. Davis shuffled his feet and then took three steps without a dribble. Watching it at regular speed it's obvious. And I'm not sure the foul by Ayton with 2 seconds left was legit either. When the actual foul happened, A&M's Wilson wasn't shooting. As soon as the contact was made, he gathered the ball and took the shot. But he wasn't in the act of shooting when the foul happened.

On another note, I hate the Euro step. It's a travel, plain and simple. You can't change direction to avoid a defender when you've picked up your dribble.

I don't know, once he gets possession he gets two steps. He only took two steps after catching it imo.

The Wilson 3PT attempt was close, I would lean to non-shooting foul but can see it called the other way. The initial contact is before he starts shooting but you are allowed to touch someone without that being a foul. When he actually fouls him is close.

The euro step being a travel is a bad take. You get two steps after you pick up your dribble, don't see why changing direction should have any influence whether something is a travel or not.

Not really. Step 1 has to be a foot already in the air landing, then you get another step.

If you have both feet down, you get one step before the ball has to go down too. I thought Davis was chopping his steps, caught the ball and went 1, 2 steps and jumped. That's a travel, although it's not always called.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Not really. Step 1 has to be a foot already in the air landing, then you get another step.

If you have both feet down, you get one step before the ball has to go down too. I thought Davis was chopping his steps, caught the ball and went 1, 2 steps and jumped. That's a travel, although it's not always called.

but the question is, when does he get possession? Certainly not as soon as he touches it. Otherwise if you tipped a balled and went and got it without dribbling you would be called for travel. That happens all the time and it never gets called for travel. When he catches he doesn't have both feet on the ground, I have watched in .25 slow motion a bunch of times, and he takes two steps. If you call that you have to call every open court dunk that has ever happened. Kind of like the calls in Spain. I bet you I could find 15 plays like that within this very game that weren't called a travel. I think the ref was just slow reacting to the play and thought the 2nd step was the 3rd step.

Just want to note on Trier:

We had a hard time driving into the paint with their length and the way they packed the paint. Especially playing Dusan and Ayton together... it's tough to get spacing for a player like Trier who relies on taking advantage of space. You saw Barcello go in there and get bounced around like a pinball. You saw all those blocks or altered shots.

Trier took some good outside shots, didn't hit them. Took some bad ones too and didn't hit them too. But he didn't keep pushing it - it's not always going to be there for him.

He played tough D on their bigger wing and took him out of the game. He got the ball to PJC for that go ahead bucket off the floor. Got the second most rebounds for our team. Hit his free throws.

We all know he wants to just score. But seeing him do the other things when the scoring isn't coming to him is wonderful.

SunnyAZ wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Not really. Step 1 has to be a foot already in the air landing, then you get another step.

If you have both feet down, you get one step before the ball has to go down too. I thought Davis was chopping his steps, caught the ball and went 1, 2 steps and jumped. That's a travel, although it's not always called.

but the question is, when does he get possession? Certainly not as soon as he touches it. Otherwise if you tipped a balled and went and got it without dribbling you would be called for travel. That happens all the time and it never gets called for travel. When he catches he doesn't have both feet on the ground, I have watched in .25 slow motion a bunch of times, and he takes two steps. If you call that you have to call every open court dunk that has ever happened. Kind of like the calls in Spain.

If you have the link, I'd watch. I haven't seen it since the game, so I'm operating off memory.

On a catch, I think you can have immediate possession. Tip and dribbling are dicier in terms of when possession begins, but a clean catch should be immediate possession because you have immediate control.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
If you have the link, I'd watch. I haven't seen it since the game, so I'm operating off memory.

On a catch, I think you can have immediate possession. Tip and dribbling are dicier in terms of when possession begins, but a clean catch should be immediate possession because you have immediate control.

https://youtu.be/tpSAyUcb0_s?t=4164" target="_blank

As to the game I had this thought. We looked very sloppy and lackadaisical on defense at times. Ristic was abused and Trier had 7 points and we went without a basket for like 10 minutes.. Yet we still beat a really good team. I think this shows how high our ceiling could be

SunnyAZ wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
If you have the link, I'd watch. I haven't seen it since the game, so I'm operating off memory.

On a catch, I think you can have immediate possession. Tip and dribbling are dicier in terms of when possession begins, but a clean catch should be immediate possession because you have immediate control.

https://youtu.be/tpSAyUcb0_s?t=4164" target="_blank

It's a tough call. I thought his left foot was planted when he catches, then he steps right/left and jumps. That's a travel. If his left foot was off the ground, and right foot is the first to hit, it's not.

I don't know. It's bang/bang. I wouldn't get offended if the call went the other way, but I get the call and tend to think it's right, but just barely.

YoDeFoe wrote:Just want to note on Trier:

We had a hard time driving into the paint with their length and the way they packed the paint. Especially playing Dusan and Ayton together... it's tough to get spacing for a player like Trier who relies on taking advantage of space. You saw Barcello go in there and get bounced around like a pinball. You saw all those blocks or altered shots.

Trier took some good outside shots, didn't hit them. Took some bad ones too and didn't hit them too. But he didn't keep pushing it - it's not always going to be there for him.

He played tough D on their bigger wing and took him out of the game. He got the ball to PJC for that go ahead bucket off the floor. Got the second most rebounds for our team. Hit his free throws.

We all know he wants to just score. But seeing him do the other things when the scoring isn't coming to him is wonderful.

Agree with all here, but just a small point; he was going ISO tripped and then was forced to pass to PJC for the 3. It not like he was looking for anyone else's shot other than his own in that (and many) situations.

He also still likes to dribble in circles for 25 seconds before doing anything. He's a sink when he gets the ball. But at least he didn't push it that much last night when it wasn't working. That's progress, I guess.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

SunnyAZ wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
If you have the link, I'd watch. I haven't seen it since the game, so I'm operating off memory.

On a catch, I think you can have immediate possession. Tip and dribbling are dicier in terms of when possession begins, but a clean catch should be immediate possession because you have immediate control.

https://youtu.be/tpSAyUcb0_s?t=4164" target="_blank

It's a tough call. I thought his left foot was planted when he catches, then he steps right/left and jumps. That's a travel. If his left foot was off the ground, and right foot is the first to hit, it's not.

I don't know. It's bang/bang. I wouldn't get offended if the call went the other way, but I get the call and tend to think it's right, but just barely.

It might technically be a travel but I know they never call it because that same exact footwork happens all the time on fastbreaks and it NEVER gets called. In FIBA they call it all the time, but this is America, and we let that ish go.

Olsondogg wrote:

Chicat wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Chicat wrote:I can’t remember the last time I was this uninspired by a win.

It was probably going 11 minutes without a FG in the 2nd half and then some real crappy play in the final minutes which has me so meh right now. Feels like we have a long way to go.

Is this real life? Texas A&M is a legit team, the sort of team you face in the Elite Eight, we've been struggling and a neutral floor win isn't good enough bc we fought for it?

Damn. I'm too excited for bed right now. I want to run around the block.

Haha, when exactly did I say that?

I’m glad we won, and it’s an important win, but with how A&M played I feel like other UA teams would have blown their doors off and I see a lot of improvement being necessary before we get into February or March.

So you are saying you are glad it's early December?

I sometimes don't get this fan base at all. Texas A&M was ranked 7 and blew USC out when they played. Arizona didn't play great but slugged out a victory away from McKale for the second time this week and fans want it to look and feel better.

Yeah, there is a looooong way to go with this team...but to not feel good about winning is such an odd place to be.

SMH

I don’t know that I would ascribe my feelings about this game to the entire fan base. In fact, sentiment seems to be largely in opposition to my takeaways.

CalStateTempe wrote:

YoDeFoe wrote:Just want to note on Trier:

We had a hard time driving into the paint with their length and the way they packed the paint. Especially playing Dusan and Ayton together... it's tough to get spacing for a player like Trier who relies on taking advantage of space. You saw Barcello go in there and get bounced around like a pinball. You saw all those blocks or altered shots.

Trier took some good outside shots, didn't hit them. Took some bad ones too and didn't hit them too. But he didn't keep pushing it - it's not always going to be there for him.

He played tough D on their bigger wing and took him out of the game. He got the ball to PJC for that go ahead bucket off the floor. Got the second most rebounds for our team. Hit his free throws.

We all know he wants to just score. But seeing him do the other things when the scoring isn't coming to him is wonderful.

Agree with all here, but just a small point; he was going ISO tripped and then was forced to pass to PJC for the 3. It not like he was looking for anyone else's shot other than his own in that (and many) situations.

He also still likes to dribble in circles for 25 seconds before doing anything. He's a sink when he gets the ball. But at least he didn't push it that much last night when it wasn't working. That's progress, I guess.

That was the play Miller called. Otherwise, agreed.

Chicat wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:

Chicat wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Chicat wrote:I can’t remember the last time I was this uninspired by a win.

It was probably going 11 minutes without a FG in the 2nd half and then some real crappy play in the final minutes which has me so meh right now. Feels like we have a long way to go.

Is this real life? Texas A&M is a legit team, the sort of team you face in the Elite Eight, we've been struggling and a neutral floor win isn't good enough bc we fought for it?

Damn. I'm too excited for bed right now. I want to run around the block.

Haha, when exactly did I say that?

I’m glad we won, and it’s an important win, but with how A&M played I feel like other UA teams would have blown their doors off and I see a lot of improvement being necessary before we get into February or March.

So you are saying you are glad it's early December?

I sometimes don't get this fan base at all. Texas A&M was ranked 7 and blew USC out when they played. Arizona didn't play great but slugged out a victory away from McKale for the second time this week and fans want it to look and feel better.

Yeah, there is a looooong way to go with this team...but to not feel good about winning is such an odd place to be.

SMH

I don’t know that I would ascribe my feelings about this game to the entire fan base. In fact, sentiment seems to be largely in opposition to my takeaways.

Yeah, the whole "fan base" thing is tiresome. People post a variety of viewpoints and one of them is labeled "fan base." Is it to get separation? Like a step-back move?

Spaceman Spiff wrote:I thought his left foot was planted when he catches, then he steps right/left and jumps. That's a travel. If his left foot was off the ground, and right foot is the first to hit, it's not.

Neither of those are travels and after watching the video, I dont think he traveled

What I notice with the offense is the absence of weak-side action. Guys coming off screens and ready to shoot. Pin downs. Cross screens on the block to free a big for an entry pass.

Seems we toss it around until someone makes a one-on-one move. Trier is often motionless until he gets the ball. Then you watch how hard someone like Klay Thompson plays without the ball. About 90 percent of his success is because he busts ass before catching the ball.