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Re: It's the coach, not the players!
Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:24 am
by ChooChooCat
rgdeuce wrote:PHXCATS wrote:rgdeuce wrote:PHXCATS wrote:rgdeuce wrote:Already over the loss. Had a full night to sleep it off and did. Still think it's time for everyone to move on. I wont kick and scream and demand his firing and I still love the guy, but it's time.
And hire who?
We are still the premier program out west. Even in our current situation, we are still easily a top 10 program. We have history, one of the best fanbases in the country, premier facilities, and tons of players in the NBA, old and young, who further sell our program. At worst, the NCAA will sanction us with a one-year tournament ban (reaching next year's would be an uphill battle anyhow) and the loss of one scholarship a year for three years (we will likely have a hard time using the fully allotted amount the next season or two anyhow). Just have a hard time believing, if the parties mutually divorce on amicable terms, that we don't pull in a good hire.
No name. Okay.
And yeah things went so smooth last time
Do I look like the motherfucking athletic director to you? And you never know who is interested until you ask/post the job. How bout you take a nice drive down to Tucson, enjoy the beautiful March weather while walking around our beautiful campus. Then walk into McKale, down to the floor and look up at the banners, retired jerseys. Ask someone to play the "We are Arizona" video on our multi-million dollar scoreboard. Imagine the 14,000 plus fans screaming in the stands. Then walk into the locker room and adjacent basketball facilities, then Richard Jefferson gym, then back to the floor of McKale again, where there are symbolic keys on an Arizona keychain lying on the floor at mid court. Know you got Akot, Smith, Jeter, Barcello, and Randolph, all with at least one year of elite-level coaching/practicing under their belts and at least two years of eligibility. The keys to all of that are yours, all you have to do is weather a self-imposed one year tournament ban that can be used in a year u likely wouldn't make the tournament anyhow, and the loss of one scholarship a year for three years that you likely wouldn't be filling with anyone decent anyhow.
We have now had two coaches who have showed the world that you can win at a very high level at Arizona. That you can be the kings of an entire region. You cant tell me that is not going to make the almonds of some of the best young coaches tingle.
I mean all this and last time we ended up with Sean Miller, the top up and coming coach in the country at the time. Beyond Livengood going full retard with Floyd, I'd say it went pretty damn smooth for us in that coaching search.
Re: It's the coach, not the players!
Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:25 am
by ChooChooCat
Spaceman Spiff wrote:legallykenny wrote:Spaceman Spiff wrote:
We would have recruited another point without TJ. Who and what impact is an open question, but it would have happened. At that point, we were scoring some great classes, so I think there's a reasonable chance we would have gotten someone good.
Miller made multiple comments during the year TJ sat that he was the future. If we had not had that situation, Miller would have made a move.
The fact that Miller has landed 0 NBA level (or even particularly good) PGs out of high school in his now 10 recruiting classes doesn’t dissuade you from your certainty in this?
The fact that Miller has recruited PG's for Elite Eight and Sweet 16 teams doesn't dissuade you from certainty that a replacement PG wouldn't produce comparable results.
Cut the devil's advocate schtick. This is a hypothetical question we can argue until we're blue in the face without an answer. I'm still salty from last night and I fail to see the advantage gained by going around and around on a hypo right now.
At one point just months ago Miller had 2 NBA level PGs committed in the same class. *Inserts gun in mouth*
Re: It's the coach, not the players!
Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:29 am
by PHXCATS
To be clear I am not saying UA does not have a ton to offer a new coach. I am simply saying the uncertainty right now is really high that I think a lot of good coaches wont want to take a job with that uncertainty. We have a good thing with Miller, not the time to throw the dice to hope for better right now with that cloud over us, IMO.
Re: It's the coach, not the players!
Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:37 am
by Spaceman Spiff
ChooChooCat wrote:Spaceman Spiff wrote:legallykenny wrote:Spaceman Spiff wrote:
We would have recruited another point without TJ. Who and what impact is an open question, but it would have happened. At that point, we were scoring some great classes, so I think there's a reasonable chance we would have gotten someone good.
Miller made multiple comments during the year TJ sat that he was the future. If we had not had that situation, Miller would have made a move.
The fact that Miller has landed 0 NBA level (or even particularly good) PGs out of high school in his now 10 recruiting classes doesn’t dissuade you from your certainty in this?
The fact that Miller has recruited PG's for Elite Eight and Sweet 16 teams doesn't dissuade you from certainty that a replacement PG wouldn't produce comparable results.
Cut the devil's advocate schtick. This is a hypothetical question we can argue until we're blue in the face without an answer. I'm still salty from last night and I fail to see the advantage gained by going around and around on a hypo right now.
At one point just months ago Miller had 2 NBA level PGs committed in the same class. *Inserts gun in mouth*
It's not like Miller is intentionally avoiding bringing in people. He laid off recruiting over TJ (good decision) and PJC (not so much). Momo was a legit college pg. Josiah was a physical all american who had head issues. Add in Lyons, who was a good decision, and that's Miller's PG legacy.
Williams and Quinerly were going to bring Point Guard U back. Then the wire happened and everything went to shit. It is what it is.
Re: It's the coach, not the players!
Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:18 am
by rgdeuce
Scheer's recent tweet brought up a good point which could get a lot of us time to move on people to pause: Now may not be the best time to hire anyone based on the uncertainty surrounding the game in terms of who is dirty/who is clean/who could be facing legal trouble, etc.
Re: It's the coach, not the players!
Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:52 pm
by JW_in_Boston
I think it's reasonable to say both that firing miller and expecting to hire anyone even half as good in our current predicament is crazy AND that I'm not confident that miller can ever get us to a place where we're ACTUALLY competing for an NC once or twice a decade. Elite 8s/sweet 16s are the goal in the years we aren't a legit NC contender not proof that we're a contender. At this point I don't care what style/tempo he wants to run, just get the guys you need and run it!
But he needs to spend A LOT of time figuring out why our teams seem to look completely lost against inferior competition in the tourney AND that he can't correct this in game. Or he needs an asst that can do this? Being top 15 and winning the pac but being a laughing stock is not acceptable. Losing to buffalo was not desirable but it happens. It doesn't happen with national poy, and it sure as shit can't be a 20 pt blowout with no heart or effort. Something is wrong as fuck and it goes way beyond a few tweaks and new players. If miller can't show he's figured it out and on the path to correct it next year we need a new leader. If he can then great!
Re: It's the coach, not the players!
Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:54 pm
by Spaceman Spiff
rgdeuce wrote:Scheer's recent tweet brought up a good point which could get a lot of us time to move on people to pause: Now may not be the best time to hire anyone based on the uncertainty surrounding the game in terms of who is dirty/who is clean/who could be facing legal trouble, etc.
This is not the peak of Arizona's attractiveness to a coach. Until the FBI consequences are known, the situation could be good, bad or anywhere in between.
Re: It's the coach, not the players!
Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:43 pm
by CBCat
psiclist23 wrote:I personally thing there was not too much wrong with this team that a great pg wouldn't have solved.
As far as Miller goes, he has been vastly rewarded -$$$$- for doing things a certain way. And a level of success that most teams envy. Would you rush, or even be able, to change a system that has paid you millions over a few short years?
We better hope he sticks around. If he doesn't, it'll be years before we get back to this level, if ever.
Hmmm even I can read between the lines on this one. I’d rather flame out in the PAC 12’s and win the real championship.
Money has tarnished everything
Re: It's the coach, not the players!
Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:56 pm
by zonagrad
Perspective. In March 1993, Arizona was bounced in the first round for the second year in a row. The '88 Final Four was well in the distance by then. Lute was badgered by the media for not delivering in the tourney. Arizona was blown out in the 2nd round in 1990. Reached the Sweet 16 in '91 and then hit the lowest of lows. Lute took stock in the program, assessed his roster and made adjustments. What followed is now history. Wed be asinine to force out Miller for anything related to on court results.
Re: It's the coach, not the players!
Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:17 pm
by elriop20
zonagrad wrote:Perspective. In March 1993, Arizona was bounced in the first round for the second year in a row. The '88 Final Four was well in the distance by then. Lute was badgered by the media for not delivering in the tourney. Arizona was blown out in the 2nd round in 1990. Reached the Sweet 16 in '91 and then hit the lowest of lows. Lute took stock in the program, assessed his roster and made adjustments. What followed is now history. Wed be asinine to force out Miller for anything related to on court results.
Two major differences
1. Miller didn't take us to a finally four 5 years ago
2. Miller has shown no indication that he is willing to be open minded and make changes to his coaching style or schemes. He's ran the same old shit for 15 years and hasn't changed anything. Remember people thought Romar might be able to positively influence sean to make some changes? I didn't notice any changes on defense or offense.
Re: It's the coach, not the players!
Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:39 pm
by JW_in_Boston
Don't forget miller didn't also get to an FF before he came too, so Lute had 2 FFs by this point.
Re: It's the coach, not the players!
Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:51 pm
by TheCat
rgdeuce wrote:PHXCATS wrote:rgdeuce wrote:PHXCATS wrote:rgdeuce wrote:Already over the loss. Had a full night to sleep it off and did. Still think it's time for everyone to move on. I wont kick and scream and demand his firing and I still love the guy, but it's time.
And hire who?
We are still the premier program out west. Even in our current situation, we are still easily a top 10 program. We have history, one of the best fanbases in the country, premier facilities, and tons of players in the NBA, old and young, who further sell our program. At worst, the NCAA will sanction us with a one-year tournament ban (reaching next year's would be an uphill battle anyhow) and the loss of one scholarship a year for three years (we will likely have a hard time using the fully allotted amount the next season or two anyhow). Just have a hard time believing, if the parties mutually divorce on amicable terms, that we don't pull in a good hire.
No name. Okay.
And yeah things went so smooth last time
Do I look like the motherfucking athletic director to you? And you never know who is interested until you ask/post the job. .
Great idea......let's post the job and see who is interested......it is clear you are not a fuckin athletic director and a hint ...steer clear of that profession. You slay me.
Re: It's the coach, not the players!
Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:59 pm
by TheCat
zonagrad wrote:Perspective. In March 1993, Arizona was bounced in the first round for the second year in a row. The '88 Final Four was well in the distance by then. Lute was badgered by the media for not delivering in the tourney. Arizona was blown out in the 2nd round in 1990. Reached the Sweet 16 in '91 and then hit the lowest of lows. Lute took stock in the program, assessed his roster and made adjustments. What followed is now history. Wed be asinine to force out Miller for anything related to on court results.
You don't think it is wise to fire a coach who just won the PAc 12 by two full games (rarely if ever done) and the tourney. Jesus we could start flying banners around and everything. Nice call Zonagrad.
Re: It's the coach, not the players!
Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:42 pm
by Newportcat
TheCat wrote:zonagrad wrote:Perspective. In March 1993, Arizona was bounced in the first round for the second year in a row. The '88 Final Four was well in the distance by then. Lute was badgered by the media for not delivering in the tourney. Arizona was blown out in the 2nd round in 1990. Reached the Sweet 16 in '91 and then hit the lowest of lows. Lute took stock in the program, assessed his roster and made adjustments. What followed is now history. Wed be asinine to force out Miller for anything related to on court results.
You don't think it is wise to fire a coach who just won the PAc 12 by two full games (rarely if ever done) and the tourney. Jesus we could start flying banners around and everything. Nice call Zonagrad.
Buffalo would have won the PAC 12 by 4 games. Winning the PAC this year with the #1 NBA draft pick is no accomplishment whatsoever. Literally USC was missing its two best players in Melton and Boatwright and coasted to the championship game of the PAC 12 tourney.
And I think the majority of people who feel Miller should quit/be fired/mutually leave feel the outside stuff is one of the major reasons why it should happen.
Re: It's the coach, not the players!
Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:48 pm
by TatetheGreat
Re: It's the coach, not the players!
Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:55 pm
by TheBuffet
zonagrad wrote:Perspective. In March 1993, Arizona was bounced in the first round for the second year in a row. The '88 Final Four was well in the distance by then. Lute was badgered by the media for not delivering in the tourney. Arizona was blown out in the 2nd round in 1990. Reached the Sweet 16 in '91 and then hit the lowest of lows. Lute took stock in the program, assessed his roster and made adjustments. What followed is now history. Wed be asinine to force out Miller for anything related to on court results.
I remember reading an article after that, to paraphrase Lute said the game had changed and perimeter play was key. He recognized the need to evolve and in 1997 we won a NC.
We have not seen or been given any indication by Miller that he is open to this. He is a good coach, but he needs to grow and show flexibility if he ever hopes to take it to the next level.
