2019-"Bring It On!"

[Newportcat]

Newport's post is riddled with confirmation bias.

Sean Miller was the head coach at Xavier taking over a program that has historically performed well.

Xavier was an independent until 1979 and until that point had made the NCAA Tournament once (1961) and NIT once (1959).

Then was in the Midwestern Collegiate Conference until 1995 -- hardly a conference for basketball prowess.

Skip Prosser and Thad Matta are certainly accomplished coaches, but when Miller took over Xavier as a basketball program had made the second weekend twice -- and they have been playing basketball since the 1920's.

Miller had a down 17-12 season after Matta left, but then proceeded to have two trips to the second weekend of his own in his final four seasons at Xavier.

This also included Xavier's second round loss to the Conley and Oden Ohio State team that was one in my personal opinion one of the best NCAA tournament games I had ever seen. Here is a refresher:



Point is, Miller's accomplishments at Xavier were extremely impressive. That combined with being a Jamelle Horne shot, a Nick Johnson shot and a 3-point shooting barrage by Wisconsin that was completely undefendable from making a Final Four at Arizona is pretty damn impressive.

Wichita State loss sucked, Buffalo loss really sucked -- but Miller has still made the second weekend five times in nine years Arizona. Let's not forget that our program was nothing short of a dumpster fire that the Andy Katz's of the world thought would take five years just to rebuild. Miller's 16-15 season is probably one of his most impressive considering what team he had in place when he took the job in 2009.

Lute was an excellent coach and a visionary for seeing the potential Arizona had, but Miller is a more than worthy successor.

Arizona isn't the only school caught up in this scandal and when all the evidence from the FBI gets out there will be many more.

Arizona is extremely lucky to have a coach like Miller and it is disappointing to see so many posters on this site do a total 180 on him after an admittedly terrible end to this season. The vast majority of schools around the country would love to have him.

I think its tough to say my post was riddled with Confirmation bias. I will be honest and say I have met Miller twice and was not really that impressed either time. I might be biased because of that as he honestly was kind of a dick. I had been fortunate to meet Lute a couple times too and literally was like meeting the Pope. He is just an unreal class act. But I also met Rich Rod and thought he was cool so what do I know!

In terms of Xavier, I went back and looked and honestly, it was actually stronger then I thought before Miller took over. Since 1985, the program has won less then 20 games, 5 times. Had a losing season once. Been to the NCAA Tournament 25 times out of 31 years. Won 17 conference titles. I didn't realize how well Pete Gillen did there too from 85-94.

Maybe Historically was a strong word but since 1985 they have been a legit program considering how small their school is. I honestly think you have the confirmation bias to make Miller look better.

Since he has left, he has taken Arizona to the 2nd weekend, 5 times as you mentioned. Chris Mack has taken Xavier there 4 times. Thad Matta had a better winning percentage then Miller in his three years there that was right before Miller took over.

I think you can tell whether someone is a great coach or were at a Great program by the success that happens after they leave. I think really difficult to say they have missed a beat with Chris Mack at the throne. And Millers accomplishments at Xavier were no doubt good but I think saying extremely impressive shows major confirmation bias. I think its obvious that Xavier is a great program and it was not all Sean Miller like I view with Lute and Arizona. Lute built and created Arizona out of nothing.

I would also disagree that the vast majority of schools around the country would love to have him. Right now and for the foresable future, the vast majority of schools would not touch Miller. I think his brand has been tainted really badly. Zero chance a marquee program like UNC comes calling for him until his name his cleared and he makes a couple Final Four runs. Again, I think the ESPN story was bullshit in terms of him talking to Dawkins about paying Deandre but we live in times of guilty until proven innocent.

Maybe my expectations for our program are too high but I think saying I have confirmation bias about Miller's time at Xavier is just incorrect. Facts do not support that

[Newportcat]

It's confirmation bias to excuse those second weekend losses as bad luck. We had more talented teams in every instance and lost to better coaches.

Did somebody blame the first weekend losses on bad luck? The York team was a transitional team that was never built for a deep run. The Xavier loss was extremely disappointing. But it’s not like Xavier is chopped liver. Buffalo was an absolute train wreck. But perhaps there were extenuating circumstances there? Just a thought.

That Xavier team was bad and got destroyed by Gonzaga. Even Miller himself admitted during an interview that loss was due to poor coaching

[ByJoveByJingle]

It's confirmation bias to excuse those second weekend losses as bad luck. We had more talented teams in every instance and lost to better coaches.

Did somebody blame the first weekend losses on bad luck? The York team was a transitional team that was never built for a deep run. The Xavier loss was extremely disappointing. But it’s not like Xavier is chopped liver. Buffalo was an absolute train wreck. But perhaps there were extenuating circumstances there? Just a thought.

That Xavier team was bad and got destroyed by Gonzaga. Even Miller himself admitted during an interview that loss was due to poor coaching

I appreciate your takes, Newport . . . but how can you make this statement with a straight face one post after your previous?

[azcat34]

Newport's post is riddled with confirmation bias.

Sean Miller was the head coach at Xavier taking over a program that has historically performed well.

Xavier was an independent until 1979 and until that point had made the NCAA Tournament once (1961) and NIT once (1959).

Then was in the Midwestern Collegiate Conference until 1995 -- hardly a conference for basketball prowess.

Skip Prosser and Thad Matta are certainly accomplished coaches, but when Miller took over Xavier as a basketball program had made the second weekend twice -- and they have been playing basketball since the 1920's.

Miller had a down 17-12 season after Matta left, but then proceeded to have two trips to the second weekend of his own in his final four seasons at Xavier.

This also included Xavier's second round loss to the Conley and Oden Ohio State team that was one in my personal opinion one of the best NCAA tournament games I had ever seen. Here is a refresher:



Point is, Miller's accomplishments at Xavier were extremely impressive. That combined with being a Jamelle Horne shot, a Nick Johnson shot and a 3-point shooting barrage by Wisconsin that was completely undefendable from making a Final Four at Arizona is pretty damn impressive.

Wichita State loss sucked, Buffalo loss really sucked -- but Miller has still made the second weekend five times in nine years Arizona. Let's not forget that our program was nothing short of a dumpster fire that the Andy Katz's of the world thought would take five years just to rebuild. Miller's 16-15 season is probably one of his most impressive considering what team he had in place when he took the job in 2009.

Lute was an excellent coach and a visionary for seeing the potential Arizona had, but Miller is a more than worthy successor.

Arizona isn't the only school caught up in this scandal and when all the evidence from the FBI gets out there will be many more.

Arizona is extremely lucky to have a coach like Miller and it is disappointing to see so many posters on this site do a total 180 on him after an admittedly terrible end to this season. The vast majority of schools around the country would love to have him.

I think its tough to say my post was riddled with Confirmation bias. I will be honest and say I have met Miller twice and was not really that impressed either time. I might be biased because of that as he honestly was kind of a dick. I had been fortunate to meet Lute a couple times too and literally was like meeting the Pope. He is just an unreal class act. But I also met Rich Rod and thought he was cool so what do I know!

In terms of Xavier, I went back and looked and honestly, it was actually stronger then I thought before Miller took over. Since 1985, the program has won less then 20 games, 5 times. Had a losing season once. Been to the NCAA Tournament 25 times out of 31 years. Won 17 conference titles. I didn't realize how well Pete Gillen did there too from 85-94.

Maybe Historically was a strong word but since 1985 they have been a legit program considering how small their school is. I honestly think you have the confirmation bias to make Miller look better.

Since he has left, he has taken Arizona to the 2nd weekend, 5 times as you mentioned. Chris Mack has taken Xavier there 4 times. Thad Matta had a better winning percentage then Miller in his three years there that was right before Miller took over.

I think you can tell whether someone is a great coach or were at a Great program by the success that happens after they leave. I think really difficult to say they have missed a beat with Chris Mack at the throne. And Millers accomplishments at Xavier were no doubt good but I think saying extremely impressive shows major confirmation bias. I think its obvious that Xavier is a great program and it was not all Sean Miller like I view with Lute and Arizona. Lute built and created Arizona out of nothing.

I would also disagree that the vast majority of schools around the country would love to have him. Right now and for the foresable future, the vast majority of schools would not touch Miller. I think his brand has been tainted really badly. Zero chance a marquee program like UNC comes calling for him until his name his cleared and he makes a couple Final Four runs. Again, I think the ESPN story was bullshit in terms of him talking to Dawkins about paying Deandre but we live in times of guilty until proven innocent.

Maybe my expectations for our program are too high but I think saying I have confirmation bias about Miller's time at Xavier is just incorrect. Facts do not support that

Isn't the bolded paragraph diminishing Lute's accomplishment's as well?

Sean took over a program coming off 4 coaches and 4 years and had next to no team waiting for him when he arrived and yet still has a higher winning % at Arizona than Lute did. (.772 to .759). The way a coach leaves a program is extremely important and those situations aren't created equally. The fact that Miller has done incredibly well at Arizona in his 9-years all things considered does not make Lute a better or worse coach.

Chris Mack is a great coach as well, that's why it looks like he's probably getting the Louisville job soon.

Not trying to make the argument Miller > Lute not or maybe ever; but to think Arizona isn't fortunate to have him now seems to me like the grass is always greener mentality.

And yes I agree, the Xavier game in the tournament last year Miller definitely fell short.

[Newportcat]

It's confirmation bias to excuse those second weekend losses as bad luck. We had more talented teams in every instance and lost to better coaches.

Did somebody blame the first weekend losses on bad luck? The York team was a transitional team that was never built for a deep run. The Xavier loss was extremely disappointing. But it’s not like Xavier is chopped liver. Buffalo was an absolute train wreck. But perhaps there were extenuating circumstances there? Just a thought.

That Xavier team was bad and got destroyed by Gonzaga. Even Miller himself admitted during an interview that loss was due to poor coaching

I appreciate your takes, Newport . . . but how can you make this statement with a straight face one post after your previous?

Does look stupid doesn't it!

Maybe I should say that Xavier team did not have nearly the talent we had. Dumb for me to say they were bad but a very typical Chris Mack Xavier team that was well coached but just lacked elite talent to take them to a Final Four.

[dcZONAfan]

Newport's post is riddled with confirmation bias.

Sean Miller was the head coach at Xavier taking over a program that has historically performed well.

Xavier was an independent until 1979 and until that point had made the NCAA Tournament once (1961) and NIT once (1959).

Then was in the Midwestern Collegiate Conference until 1995 -- hardly a conference for basketball prowess.

Skip Prosser and Thad Matta are certainly accomplished coaches, but when Miller took over Xavier as a basketball program had made the second weekend twice -- and they have been playing basketball since the 1920's.

Miller had a down 17-12 season after Matta left, but then proceeded to have two trips to the second weekend of his own in his final four seasons at Xavier.

This also included Xavier's second round loss to the Conley and Oden Ohio State team that was one in my personal opinion one of the best NCAA tournament games I had ever seen. Here is a refresher:



Point is, Miller's accomplishments at Xavier were extremely impressive. That combined with being a Jamelle Horne shot, a Nick Johnson shot and a 3-point shooting barrage by Wisconsin that was completely undefendable from making a Final Four at Arizona is pretty damn impressive.

Wichita State loss sucked, Buffalo loss really sucked -- but Miller has still made the second weekend five times in nine years Arizona. Let's not forget that our program was nothing short of a dumpster fire that the Andy Katz's of the world thought would take five years just to rebuild. Miller's 16-15 season is probably one of his most impressive considering what team he had in place when he took the job in 2009.

Lute was an excellent coach and a visionary for seeing the potential Arizona had, but Miller is a more than worthy successor.

Arizona isn't the only school caught up in this scandal and when all the evidence from the FBI gets out there will be many more.

Arizona is extremely lucky to have a coach like Miller and it is disappointing to see so many posters on this site do a total 180 on him after an admittedly terrible end to this season. The vast majority of schools around the country would love to have him.

I think its tough to say my post was riddled with Confirmation bias. I will be honest and say I have met Miller twice and was not really that impressed either time. I might be biased because of that as he honestly was kind of a dick. I had been fortunate to meet Lute a couple times too and literally was like meeting the Pope. He is just an unreal class act. But I also met Rich Rod and thought he was cool so what do I know!

In terms of Xavier, I went back and looked and honestly, it was actually stronger then I thought before Miller took over. Since 1985, the program has won less then 20 games, 5 times. Had a losing season once. Been to the NCAA Tournament 25 times out of 31 years. Won 17 conference titles. I didn't realize how well Pete Gillen did there too from 85-94.

Maybe Historically was a strong word but since 1985 they have been a legit program considering how small their school is. I honestly think you have the confirmation bias to make Miller look better.

Since he has left, he has taken Arizona to the 2nd weekend, 5 times as you mentioned. Chris Mack has taken Xavier there 4 times. Thad Matta had a better winning percentage then Miller in his three years there that was right before Miller took over.

I think you can tell whether someone is a great coach or were at a Great program by the success that happens after they leave. I think really difficult to say they have missed a beat with Chris Mack at the throne. And Millers accomplishments at Xavier were no doubt good but I think saying extremely impressive shows major confirmation bias. I think its obvious that Xavier is a great program and it was not all Sean Miller like I view with Lute and Arizona. Lute built and created Arizona out of nothing.

I would also disagree that the vast majority of schools around the country would love to have him. Right now and for the foresable future, the vast majority of schools would not touch Miller. I think his brand has been tainted really badly. Zero chance a marquee program like UNC comes calling for him until his name his cleared and he makes a couple Final Four runs. Again, I think the ESPN story was bullshit in terms of him talking to Dawkins about paying Deandre but we live in times of guilty until proven innocent.

Maybe my expectations for our program are too high but I think saying I have confirmation bias about Miller's time at Xavier is just incorrect. Facts do not support that

Chris Mack's record in the big east is pretty good. What was Miller's record in the big east at Xavier?

[azgreg]

You mean the A10?

[dcZONAfan]

You mean the A10?

This was my exact point. Thank you.

[EVCat]

Lute built and created Arizona out of nothing.

This bugs me.

Fred Snowden had the #1 recruiting class in the nation one year, transitioned from Bear Down Gym to McKale and filled it, had 4 guys from one class in the NBA with the Kiddie Corps then added Big Bird, arguably a top 3 player in program history, and showed an openness to a diverse coaching staff with the hiring of the first African-American head coach in Division 1.

Lute followed a crater, no doubt. But Arizona basketball was in the blood of Tucson before the city's collective wrist was cut and left to bleed to near death. Lute Olson did not ride a horse to Tucson and build McKale one brick at a time. There was a history of successful basketball in Tucson (even going back to earlier days), and Fred Snowden put Arizona in a position where Lute considered the job.

[Merkin]

with the hiring of the first African-American head coach in Division 1.

Just a side note, that's actually an urban legend about Snowden. Will Robinson was the head coach at Illinois State in 1970 which was Div I then.

Snowden didn't start at Arizona until 1972.

But you are correct, Snowden had some fantastic classes.

I grew up in Michigan, and was a huge fan of Eric Money as a Piston. No idea where he went to school at the time.

I was a freshmen when Snowden had his last season. It was really brutal. Then his wife was picked up for shoplifting at Levis or Goldwaters, some place like that.

[EVCat]

with the hiring of the first African-American head coach in Division 1.

Just a side note, that's actually an urban legend about Snowden. Will Robinson was the head coach at Illinois State in 1970 which was Div I then.

Snowden didn't start at Arizona until 1972.

But you are correct, Snowden had some fantastic classes.

I grew up in Michigan, and was a huge fan of Eric Money as a Piston. No idea where he went to school at the time.

I was a freshmen when Snowden had his last season. It was really brutal. Then his wife was picked up for shoplifting at Levis or Goldwaters, some place like that.

There was no actual D1 at the time of the Illinois State hire, which is the caveat. It is generally assumed anyone in the University division of the NCAA was eventually D1 in the 3-Division system. So my comment about D1 is inaccurate...he is generally accepted as the first African-American head coach at a "major" university. But both were hired prior to the designation D1, so the term"major university" has become incorrectly interchangeable with "D1".

[Newportcat]

Lute built and created Arizona out of nothing.

This bugs me.

Fred Snowden had the #1 recruiting class in the nation one year, transitioned from Bear Down Gym to McKale and filled it, had 4 guys from one class in the NBA with the Kiddie Corps then added Big Bird, arguably a top 3 player in program history, and showed an openness to a diverse coaching staff with the hiring of the first African-American head coach in Division 1.

Lute followed a crater, no doubt. But Arizona basketball was in the blood of Tucson before the city's collective wrist was cut and left to bleed to near death. Lute Olson did not ride a horse to Tucson and build McKale one brick at a time. There was a history of successful basketball in Tucson (even going back to earlier days), and Fred Snowden put Arizona in a position where Lute considered the job.

Lute built Arizona from nothing. To say otherwise is extremely disengenious. We won one conference title in the 30 years before Lute got to Arizona. We were coming off a 3 win season

Mckale was built but it was dead inside outside of really one year in 1976 before Lute took over

[Merkin]

Fred had 3 20 win seasons in the WAC, with another 19 win season. No losing seasons in the WAC.

Going to a stronger conference, he actually did quite well, until his final season anyway.

[atlantakat]

Lute did an amazing job in his first couple of years rebuilding the program after the Ben Lindsey disaster (and the decline in the last couple of years under Snowden) but anyone who was in Tucson in 1972-1977 knows how important Snowden and that time was to establish Tucson as a basketball town.

Folks that came to the program later should listen to their elders. They might learn something....

[atlantakat]

"Mckale was built but it was dead inside outside of really one year in 1976 before Lute took over"

And just to be clear -- this statement is complete BS.

[Newportcat]

"Mckale was built but it was dead inside outside of really one year in 1976 before Lute took over"

And just to be clear -- this statement is complete BS.

Ok maybe 2-3 years it was good out of the previous 70 but Lute built something from scratch and created something out of nothing. Surprised I am even getting into this debate with anyone.

FYI, my family has had the same season tickets at McKale since it was built.

[atlantakat]

The following propositions can all be true:

1. Lute Olson did an amazing job taking a program that had completely fallen apart, made it respectable in year one through great coaching of some of low-mid major players that had gone 4-24 the year before supplemented by two gutsy JUCOs and a skinny kid from Pacific Pallisades, Lute then took the team to the tournament in year 2, and on to national prominence by 87-88 where the program remained at or near the top until Lute's health failed.

2. Fred Snowden brought excitement about college basketball to a sleepy college town in 1972, took a mediocre program playing in an ancient 2,500 person gym and filled up a fantastic new arena with avid fans that enjoyed and cheered for teams stocked with some of the most offensively gifted guys to ever put on the Cats jersey -- in any era. Name me a more thrilling backcourt than Money and Norman (Reeves and Stoudamire, maybe). Name me a better front court duo than Elliott and Fleming (there is none).

3. Fred Snowden built McKale Center and established a love of college basketball in Tucson. Lute Olson saved that tradition which had been lost after a period of decline and was almost destroyed by Ben Lindsey and then took the Cats to the big time nationally.

All of these propositions are true and they are not in conflict with one another. But I will correct anyone who suggests that the Snowden years were not a thrilling time for college basketball in Tucson or that there was no basketball of note at Arizona before Lute. They were and there was.

And you don't have to go back to Mo Udall or Pop McKale to find it.

[TheCat]

Lute built and created Arizona out of nothing.

This bugs me.

Fred Snowden had the #1 recruiting class in the nation one year, transitioned from Bear Down Gym to McKale and filled it, had 4 guys from one class in the NBA with the Kiddie Corps then added Big Bird, arguably a top 3 player in program history, and showed an openness to a diverse coaching staff with the hiring of the first African-American head coach in Division 1.

Lute followed a crater, no doubt. But Arizona basketball was in the blood of Tucson before the city's collective wrist was cut and left to bleed to near death. Lute Olson did not ride a horse to Tucson and build McKale one brick at a time. There was a history of successful basketball in Tucson (even going back to earlier days), and Fred Snowden put Arizona in a position where Lute considered the job.

Lute built Arizona from nothing. To say otherwise is extremely disengenious. We won one conference title in the 30 years before Lute got to Arizona. We were coming off a 3 win season

Mckale was built but it was dead inside outside of really one year in 1976 before Lute took over

You don't know what you are talking about or your to young to know. The Cats under Snowden were one of the best teams to watch in the country. Eric Money, Coniel Norman (best shooter with Salim and Kerr a close second in Ariz history), Al fleming would would have led the nation in fg % but lost out barely to a guy by the name of Bill Walton when he when 21/22 against Memphis. Can't remember his name but a big that ransferred to Hostra that led the nation in rebounding. These guys could score 120 points in a game. Then came Herm the Germ and Big Bird and some other good player like Len Gordy etc.. In Snowdens 1st year they would open halls on campus so students could watch because no one could get a ticket. The kiddie corp....and the Cardac Cats......that is what they were.

[TheCat]

The following propositions can all be true:

1. Lute Olson did an amazing job taking a program that had completely fallen apart, made it respectable in year one through great coaching of some of low-mid major players that had gone 4-24 the year before supplemented by two gutsy JUCOs and a skinny kid from Pacific Pallisades, Lute then took the team to the tournament in year 2, and on to national prominence by 87-88 where the program remained at or near the top until Lute's health failed.

2. Fred Snowden brought excitement about college basketball to a sleepy college town in 1972, took a mediocre program playing in an ancient 2,500 person gym and filled up a fantastic new arena with avid fans that enjoyed and cheered for teams stocked with some of the most offensively gifted guys to ever put on the Cats jersey -- in any era. Name me a more thrilling backcourt than Money and Norman (Reeves and Stoudamire, maybe). Name me a better front court duo than Elliott and Fleming (there is none).

3. Fred Snowden built McKale Center and established a love of college basketball in Tucson. Lute Olson saved that tradition which had been lost after a period of decline and was almost destroyed by Ben Lindsey and then took the Cats to the big time nationally.

All of these propositions are true and they are not in conflict with one another. But I will correct anyone who suggests that the Snowden years were not a thrilling time for college basketball in Tucson or that there was no basketball of note at Arizona before Lute. They were and there was.

And you don't have to go back to Mo Udall or Pop McKale to find it.

Truer words have not been spoken.

[atlantakat]

"Can't remember his name but a big that transferred to Hostra that led the nation in rebounding."

John Irving.

Bring back the Old School Thread!

Where are you Walk-On Wildcat? Our nation turns its lonely eyes towards you.

[Newportcat]

Lute built and created Arizona out of nothing.

This bugs me.

Fred Snowden had the #1 recruiting class in the nation one year, transitioned from Bear Down Gym to McKale and filled it, had 4 guys from one class in the NBA with the Kiddie Corps then added Big Bird, arguably a top 3 player in program history, and showed an openness to a diverse coaching staff with the hiring of the first African-American head coach in Division 1.

Lute followed a crater, no doubt. But Arizona basketball was in the blood of Tucson before the city's collective wrist was cut and left to bleed to near death. Lute Olson did not ride a horse to Tucson and build McKale one brick at a time. There was a history of successful basketball in Tucson (even going back to earlier days), and Fred Snowden put Arizona in a position where Lute considered the job.

Lute built Arizona from nothing. To say otherwise is extremely disengenious. We won one conference title in the 30 years before Lute got to Arizona. We were coming off a 3 win season

Mckale was built but it was dead inside outside of really one year in 1976 before Lute took over

You don't know what you are talking about or your to young to know. The Cats under Snowden were one of the best teams to watch in the country. Eric Money, Coniel Norman (best shooter with Salim and Kerr a close second in Ariz history), Al fleming would would have led the nation in fg % but lost out barely to a guy by the name of Bill Walton when he when 21/22 against Memphis. Can't remember his name but a big that ransferred to Hostra that led the nation in rebounding. These guys could score 120 points in a game. Then came Herm the Germ and Big Bird and some other good player like Len Gordy etc.. In Snowdens 1st year they would open halls on campus so students could watch because no one could get a ticket. The kiddie corp....and the Cardac Cats......that is what they were.

When Lute took over the program was in absolute shambles. All students who were a part of those glory Snowden you describe were all gone. U of A was now in the PAC 12 and not the WAC (where again they won one conference title, not exactly lighting the word on fire)

To describe U of A having some sort of glorious basketball tradition before Lute took over is complete and utter bullshit. Sure, we had a couple nice fun years in the mid 70’s but those years were long gone when Lute took over.

He built our program from nothing except a big arena. He had to start completely from scratch. He is a saint for doing so because he created a miracle

And Snowden didn’t build mckale. It was already under construction when he became head coach.

[zonagrad]

The above is all accurate. While Snowden had the program rolling up until '76, he never capitalized on the success. I've read he had a real fear of of flying and that contributed to poor recruiting. The program was in steady decline when he was fired. There was no hope of Snowden turning the ship around. The Lindsey hire looked questionable at the the time and disastrous in practice. I went to high school, albeit briefly, with his two children. They were great people, his son a great teammate.

Olson inherited a program at absolute rock bottom. But the good part there were no holdovers who had any real equity or leverage to challenge an incoming coach. Olson had total control and a blank canvas. Which he worked to his advantage. Any credit for short term success would go to Olson, helping his case further with recruits. Lute didn't start winning with another coach's leftovers. It was all Lute.

[pc in NM]

FYI, when Arizona joined the Pac, every basketball fan in Tucson KNEW that Arizona could battle UCLA....

... the first time,ICLA cane to Tucson, they were ranked #4, had All-American David Greenwood. That night at McKale was as high energy, as loud, and as fun as ANY game of either Lute's or Miller's tenure.

Snowden did have a serious decline, and drugs may have been a factor - but he built a basketball fan base in Tucson that made Lute's later success possible.

Ben Lindsey was a coach on the rise, and seemed like a good hire at the time. That he proved to be sp totally incompetent was a genuone surprise.

Lute really shook things up by requiring extra contributions for premium seats - the very fact that he could do so could have only happened with an already well-established fan base. The comments here have undervalued what Snowden meant to, and sccomplished at, Arizona. He took the team to a Great Eight matchup vs. UCLA (@ Pauley, BTW), a significant accomplishmet by any standards!!

[FreeSpiritCat]

FYI, when Arizona joined the Pac, every basketball fan in Tucson KNEW that Arizona could battle UCLA....

... the first time,ICLA cane to Tucson, they were ranked #4, had All-American David Greenwood. That night at McKale was as high energy, as loud, and as fun as ANY game of either Lute's or Miller's tenure.

Snowden did have a serious decline, and drugs may have been a factor - but he built a basketball fan base in Tucson that made Lute's later success possible.

Ben Lindsey was a coach on the rise, and seemed like a good hire at the time. That he proved to be sp totally incompetent was a genuone surprise.

Lute really shook things up by requiring extra contributions for premium seats - the very fact that he could do so could have only happened with an already well-established fan base. The comments here have undervalued what Snowden meant to, and sccomplished at, Arizona. He took the team to a Great Eight matchup vs. UCLA (@ Pauley, BTW), a significant accomplishmet by any standards!!

It is probably the fan base that brought Lute to Tucson. He could see the potential of Arizona Basketball turning into a national power. If he didn't see the potential would he have come here?

[Newportcat]

FYI, when Arizona joined the Pac, every basketball fan in Tucson KNEW that Arizona could battle UCLA....

... the first time,ICLA cane to Tucson, they were ranked #4, had All-American David Greenwood. That night at McKale was as high energy, as loud, and as fun as ANY game of either Lute's or Miller's tenure.

Snowden did have a serious decline, and drugs may have been a factor - but he built a basketball fan base in Tucson that made Lute's later success possible.

Ben Lindsey was a coach on the rise, and seemed like a good hire at the time. That he proved to be sp totally incompetent was a genuone surprise.

Lute really shook things up by requiring extra contributions for premium seats - the very fact that he could do so could have only happened with an already well-established fan base. The comments here have undervalued what Snowden meant to, and sccomplished at, Arizona. He took the team to a Great Eight matchup vs. UCLA (@ Pauley, BTW), a significant accomplishmet by any standards!!

Snowden had some good years for sure but so did Rich Rod. The ASU game in 2014 was maybe the loudest I have ever heard Arizona stadium. If Sumlin pulls off a miracle by turning our program into a legit football power, would anyone here give Rich Rod credit?

[Newportcat]

FYI, when Arizona joined the Pac, every basketball fan in Tucson KNEW that Arizona could battle UCLA....

... the first time,ICLA cane to Tucson, they were ranked #4, had All-American David Greenwood. That night at McKale was as high energy, as loud, and as fun as ANY game of either Lute's or Miller's tenure.

Snowden did have a serious decline, and drugs may have been a factor - but he built a basketball fan base in Tucson that made Lute's later success possible.

Ben Lindsey was a coach on the rise, and seemed like a good hire at the time. That he proved to be sp totally incompetent was a genuone surprise.

Lute really shook things up by requiring extra contributions for premium seats - the very fact that he could do so could have only happened with an already well-established fan base. The comments here have undervalued what Snowden meant to, and sccomplished at, Arizona. He took the team to a Great Eight matchup vs. UCLA (@ Pauley, BTW), a significant accomplishmet by any standards!!

It is probably the fan base that brought Lute to Tucson. He could see the potential of Arizona Basketball turning into a national power. If he didn't see the potential would he have come here?

Lute came here for a variety of reasons. He wanted to get out of cold winters in Iowa. He wanted to get back to the west coast where he had tons of recruiting connections. He wanted to build his own program with his identity on it. He also really wanted to get out of the fish bowl that was The university of Iowa and come to the desert. He did see lots of potential here with the fan base Tucson being a college town that was not small with tons of old people who winter here right during basketball season.

But Lute knew Arizona was a major challenge. He knew it would not be easy at all. He had to go to all the fraternity houses to recruit and make sure students came to the games. He did tons of community out reach especially early on to get mckale full. He did not show up to a full arena. His first year we averaged just over 7,000 fans. Lute went into the community to drum up support and attendance. It wasn’t just there. And through great basketball and that community outreach the fans started to come and have stayed pretty much ever since.

Lute built our program from nothing. I would argue Sumlin was given more then lute was given.

[BibbysTowelDude]

Newport its one thing to be arrogant. It's insane to be arrogant and wrong.

[Newportcat]

Newport its one thing to be arrogant. It's insane to be arrogant and wrong.

It’s insane I am arguing with people about Lute creating the Arizona program from nothing. The program was absolute dog shit when he took over. Sure six years before hand we had a good run but Lute built our national brand after taking over a program that was effectively dead. He is a saint and one of the greatest coaches of all time.

[azgreg]

Well, I remember that during the year prior to Olson I could decide to go to a game about an hour prior to tip and still get a ticket for a very good seat in a half empty arena.

[BibbysTowelDude]

Oy vey... No one has said Lute isn't a great coach. No one is saying Lute isn't a saint. No one is saying that the conditions before Lute got here weren't bleak. The idea that Arizona Basketball was nothing before Lute is just factually untrue. That just barely anything good happened here before Lute is just wrong.

If you think Arizona Basketball was built from nothing by Lute is not to know Lute. That guy is not coming to Tucson to build from absolute zilch just to avoid some harsh winters and a "intrusive fan base" NO FUCKING WAY

[Newportcat]

Oy vey... No one has said Lute isn't a great coach. No one is saying Lute isn't a saint. No one is saying that the conditions before Lute got here weren't bleak. The idea that Arizona Basketball was nothing before Lute is just factually untrue. That just barely anything good happened here before Lute is just wrong.

If you think Arizona Basketball was built from nothing by Lute is not to know Lute. That guy is not coming to Tucson to build from absolute zilch just to avoid some harsh winters and a "intrusive fan base" NO FUCKING WAY

I know everyone is getting sick of this discussion so the last thing I will say is Arizona made an elite 8 in 1976. It was an awesome run that year. Sure it showed it could happen at Arizona. But then that run ended quickly and it turned sour and the fan base left and basketball sucked. When Lute took over 1976 was 7 years past. The roster was awful and ticket sales were terrible. Sure Lute saw potential because we had the arena built and he knew West Coast basketball well so he knew he could recruit players. But the cupboards were barren at the time he took the job. He started from scratch.

It won’t be a case of waving a wand and it suddenly happens. It will take time and it will be exciting. You build a program with good people. Good people in the long run will build a successful program. We will work as hard as we can to build a first-class program.

Lute at his first press conference.