lets talk '16

luteformayor2 · Post by **luteformayor2** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 11:42 am

Well 5* Miles Bridges just committed to MSU. Looks very clear that he and the other MSU recruits are going hard after Jackson.

At this point, I doubt we have a chance with Jackson.

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 11:55 am

Well...

This is likely Izzo's greatest recruiting class and he might not be finished. MSU is also in the running for 6-7 guard Josh Jackson, formerly of Detroit now playing in Napa, California. Jackson is also considering Arizona, Maryland and Kansas.

"I talk to Josh all the time," Bridges said. "I'd love to play on the same team as him but it's up to him."

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports ... /73280922/" target="_blank

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:17 pm

luteformayor2 wrote:Well 5* Miles Bridges just committed to MSU. Looks very clear that he and the other MSU recruits are going hard after Jackson.

At this point, I doubt we have a chance with Jackson.

Arizona recruits went hard after Ivan Rabb, what's your point? I don't see a reason to worry about a bunch of MSU's fans' wet dreams at this point.

Honestly if Jackson's entire recruitment was built around going to whatever school Miles Bridge went to then he's been wasting his two perceived favorites time for a good while now (AZ and Kansas), because neither school was on Bridge's list.

If Izzo does somehow pull this off though he's immediately on John Calipari brainwashing level. Landing Langford, Jackson, and Bridges doesn't make much sense for all 3 parties unless brainwash.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:06 pm

I love this. People worry that someone will follow someone as a "Package deal" and Arizona will lose out on a prized recruit.

Then, they get back to worrying about 5 star players on this years Arizona team possibly transferring, or unhappy because of lack of playing time because of other skilled players on the team.

I say pick one worry, and stick with it.

luteformayor2 · Post by **luteformayor2** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 4:01 pm

The Shirt that Bridges was wearing...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQaIEDHVEAABcIw.jpg" target="_blank

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 4:15 pm

Miller confident despite lack of early recruits

15 hours ago • Bruce Pascoe Arizona Daily Star

It’s always tricky for coaches to talk about their current recruiting efforts, since NCAA rules prohibit them from talking about players who have yet to sign a letter of intent, but Sean Miller managed to make one thing clear Friday.

Namely, that he’s not panicked about the 2016 class, which contains zero committed players at this point.

About 38 minutes into his preseason discussion of his Arizona Wildcats, Miller was asked how crucial the Red-Blue Game would be this year especially since the program has no 2016 recruits lined up yet. (Top recruits from several classes are routinely invited to UA's showcase preseason event.)

“It’s always crucial,” Miller said, then dug into the underlying theme of the question.

“Whether we have commitments now or not, the hay doesn’t enter the barn until April as far as who’s on your team,” Miller said. “Sometimes you may have a good early class but there are a few others you wanted to add but you don’t.

“This year a lot of things are going to happen for us later, not earlier.”

Miller said that part of the Red-Blue Game is the near “dry run” sort of game-day experience his current players get and then talked about his recruiting again.

“Our recruiting doesn’t always stem in the current (high school) senior class,” he said. “A lot of times we’re more active in the younger
classes than the senior classes and this year is a good example of that.

“Whoever’s at the Red-Blue Game is always something that’s important for our program, and it says a lot when you get more people for an intrasquad scrimmage on a Saturday afternoon with two 12-minute halves than a lot of programs would get if Kentucky showed up.”

http://tucson.com/sports/blogs/pascoe/a ... e3f92.html" target="_blank

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 4:20 pm

Sure doesn't read promising if he is talking about juniors, not seniors.

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 3:39 pm

Josh Jackson and Mitch Lightfoot are expected to visit UA this month.

http://tucson.com/sports/" target="_blank

dmjcat · Post by **dmjcat** » Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:53 pm

Looks like we will have to wait until spring if we want Jones

http://247sports.com/Bolt/Arizona-Louis ... s-40024968" target="_blank

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:47 am

Missed this last month

September 29, 2015 4:03 pm • Bruce Pascoe Arizona Daily Star

October is almost here and UA still doesn't have any recruits lined up for the class of 2016. Is that a problem?

Maybe not, if Brian Pedersen's predictions in this Bleacher Report slideshow come true: He has five-star forward Josh Jackson and fast-rising Texas guard Andrew Jones both committing to the Wildcats, which would instantly catapult UA's class into the Top 25, if not higher.

Then there's UA's push to get Finnish forward Lauri Markkanen, who might be a five-star pick if he were subject to the usual U.S. hype, mixtapes and ratings.

http://tucson.com/sports/blogs/pascoe/a ... add6a.html" target="_blank

dmjcat · Post by **dmjcat** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:42 pm

DeAaron Fox to commit shortly after his visit to AZ.

http://www.azdesertswarm.com/2015/10/5/ ... zona-visit" target="_blank

84Cat · Post by **84Cat** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:55 pm

247 has him 95% going to UK but I hope you are right dmj.

dmjcat · Post by **dmjcat** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:15 pm

84Cat wrote:247 has him 95% going to UK but I hope you are right dmj.

I said he was going to commit........I didn't say he was going to commit to the UA!

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:40 am

So we have no shot at Fox?

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:46 am

DeAaron Fox.. Sounds like a Kentucky name to me. Demarcus Cousins, Aaron Harrison.. Yea, Kentucky

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:40 pm

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:43 pm

We were never going to get Fox, but it sure makes Arizona looks like crap that he didn't even bother to visit after setting one up. Miller is a Josh Jackson miss away from needing to clean out house in regards to his coaching staff immediately.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:48 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:We were never going to get Fox, but it sure makes Arizona looks like crap that he didn't even bother to visit after setting one up. Miller is a Josh Jackson miss away from needing to clean out house in regards to his coaching staff immediately.

Arizona does not remotely look like crap for Fox have canceled his visit. And Arizona is solidly in it for Jackson.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:53 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:We were never going to get Fox, but it sure makes Arizona looks like crap that he didn't even bother to visit after setting one up. Miller is a Josh Jackson miss away from needing to clean out house in regards to his coaching staff immediately.

That would be a ridiculous overreaction, and would smack of desperation over having ONE down recruiting year.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:11 pm

Yeah seriously...this sky is falling stuff about us potentially having one recruiting year where we just have a top 20 class instead of a top 3 class is weird. Doesn't mean that every other class will be like that

3goggles · Post by **3goggles** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:00 pm

We have some many players coming back next year that we only need a few guys JJ, The Fin and Jones and I would be very happy with that

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Fri Oct 09, 2015 3:53 am

So I'm guessing that Cal told Fox that if he visited UA his UK offer was in jeopardy and that it was either commit now or find a different school. Total conjecture on my part, but not out of the realm of possibility.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:45 am

Chicat wrote:So I'm guessing that Cal told Fox that if he visited UA his UK offer was in jeopardy and that it was either commit now or find a different school. Total conjecture on my part, but not out of the realm of possibility.

So how about we tell JJ his offer is in jeopardy if he doesn't commit to AZ by Monday? Oh, it doesn't work that way?

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:12 am

Chicat wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:We were never going to get Fox, but it sure makes Arizona looks like crap that he didn't even bother to visit after setting one up. Miller is a Josh Jackson miss away from needing to clean out house in regards to his coaching staff immediately.
That would be a ridiculous overreaction, and would smack of desperation over having ONE down recruiting year.

Not really. Book was integral in bringing talent immediately given the situation of having little to no west coast connections on the staff, but his usefulness has run its course after 5+ years of developing west coast connections, especially since he hasn't built much of any over here. Pasternack has been beat repeatedly in LA and the Bay Area, the two most important areas that Arizona recruits, and I won't hold anything against Phelps who is really nothing more than Sean's Jim Rosborough, but quite simply that is not going to fly. Two of the incoming recruits were evaluated and recruited by Damon Stoudamire and he's no longer here. Trier was a Sean Miller recruit, so that means the guys on the current staff have not pulled their weight over these past two classes. That's not going to cut it.

UW's recruiting went incredibly stale and Romar's reaction was to rehaul his staff. Now they're beating out Arizona, Louisville, and Kentucky for national recruits. A staff shake up is required after awhile. It's not an overreaction, it's merely a necessity. Look at the national recruiting scene, outside of the tried and true (Kentucky/Duke) new staffs every where are killing it in recruiting. Auburn, Alabama, LSU, California, Texas. New blood always leads to better recruiting after awhile and the longer a staff stays together the quicker every thing goes stale minus a few examples as previously mentioned.

This was supposed to be Sean Miller's best recruiting class, but right now with all the momentum in MSU's corner for Jackson and UNC reportedly having the edge for Lauri after the in home visits this class is about to be Mitch Lightfoot and a couple of grad transfers. Things need to be changed, unless of course every one here is ok with being Iowa State under Fred Hoiberg at best.

Arizona needs a Justin Hutson or Tony Bland or even Stan Johnson in the worst way.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:27 am

ASUHATER! wrote:Yeah seriously...this sky is falling stuff about us potentially having one recruiting year where we just have a top 20 class instead of a top 3 class is weird. Doesn't mean that every other class will be like that

Mitch Lightfoot and a couple of grad transfers is not a top 20 class. That's the issue.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:35 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:
Chicat wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:We were never going to get Fox, but it sure makes Arizona looks like crap that he didn't even bother to visit after setting one up. Miller is a Josh Jackson miss away from needing to clean out house in regards to his coaching staff immediately.
That would be a ridiculous overreaction, and would smack of desperation over having ONE down recruiting year.
Not really. Book was integral in bringing talent immediately given the situation of having little to no west coast connections on the staff, but his usefulness has run its course after 5+ years of developing west coast connections, especially since he hasn't built much of any over here. Pasternack has been beat repeatedly in LA and the Bay Area, the two most important areas that Arizona recruits, and I won't hold anything against Phelps who is really nothing more than Sean's Jim Rosborough, but quite simply that is not going to fly. Two of the incoming recruits were evaluated and recruited by Damon Stoudamire and he's no longer here. Trier was a Sean Miller recruit, so that means the guys on the current staff have not pulled their weight over these past two classes. That's not going to cut it.

UW's recruiting went incredibly stale and Romar's reaction was to rehaul his staff. Now they're beating out Arizona, Louisville, and Kentucky for national recruits. A staff shake up is required after awhile. It's not an overreaction, it's merely a necessity. Look at the national recruiting scene, outside of the tried and true (Kentucky/Duke) new staffs every where are killing it in recruiting. Auburn, Alabama, LSU, California, Texas. New blood always leads to better recruiting after awhile and the longer a staff stays together the quicker every thing goes stale minus a few examples as previously mentioned.

This was supposed to be Sean Miller's best recruiting class, but right now with all the momentum in MSU's corner for Jackson and UNC reportedly having the edge for Lauri after the in home visits this class is about to be Mitch Lightfoot and a couple of grad transfers. Things need to be changed, unless of course every one here is ok with being Iowa State under Fred Hoiberg at best.

Arizona needs a Justin Hutson or Tony Bland or even Stan Johnson in the worst way.

You're bringing all this up in relation to Fox? What Texas recruit does Arizona ever have a realistic shot at?

Who are all of the recruits that Washington is beating out Arizona, Louisville, and Kentucky for? Or is it just Fultz? Washington is still mostly dependent on Seattle talent.

When Arizona recruits outside its region, there has to be a connection. Lauri is in a different class as a European prospect. Who is reporting that NC has the edge with Lauri?

Why do you think MSU has all the momentum for Jackson?

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:38 pm

Chief reasons we could have a down recruiting year:

Allonzo Trier
Ray Smith
Justin Simon
Parker Jackson Cartwright
Dusan Ristic
Elliott Pitts
Kadeem Allen
Chance Comanche

Lightfoot and Lauri would bolster weak spots play. Jones and Jackson would add to areas of strength. But I can see why a guy wanting immediate PT would look elsewhere.

Doesn't mean we can't recruit. Means we already have. We're just used to Gordon and Johnson coming and going in one year and expecting the plug-ins to come straight from high school.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:46 pm

gumby wrote:Chief reasons we could have a down recruiting year:

Allonzo Trier
Ray Smith
Justin Simon
Parker Jackson Cartwright
Dusan Ristic
Elliott Pitts
Kadeem Allen
Chance Comanche

Lightfoot and Lauri would bolster weak spots play. Jones and Jackson would add to areas of strength. But I can see why a guy wanting immediate PT would look elsewhere.

Doesn't mean we can't recruit. Means we already have. We're just used to Gordon and Johnson coming and going in one year and expecting the plug-ins to come straight from high school.

How certain are Lauri's people that Jackson isn't coming to Arizona and that Smith will be in the NBA? These are legitimate issues.

But Jackson has no reason to wait and see. If Smith returns and Jackson arrives, Smith will be the 4. Makes sense for Lauri's people to consider that.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:48 pm

Longhorned wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:
Chicat wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:We were never going to get Fox, but it sure makes Arizona looks like crap that he didn't even bother to visit after setting one up. Miller is a Josh Jackson miss away from needing to clean out house in regards to his coaching staff immediately.
That would be a ridiculous overreaction, and would smack of desperation over having ONE down recruiting year.
Not really. Book was integral in bringing talent immediately given the situation of having little to no west coast connections on the staff, but his usefulness has run its course after 5+ years of developing west coast connections, especially since he hasn't built much of any over here. Pasternack has been beat repeatedly in LA and the Bay Area, the two most important areas that Arizona recruits, and I won't hold anything against Phelps who is really nothing more than Sean's Jim Rosborough, but quite simply that is not going to fly. Two of the incoming recruits were evaluated and recruited by Damon Stoudamire and he's no longer here. Trier was a Sean Miller recruit, so that means the guys on the current staff have not pulled their weight over these past two classes. That's not going to cut it.

UW's recruiting went incredibly stale and Romar's reaction was to rehaul his staff. Now they're beating out Arizona, Louisville, and Kentucky for national recruits. A staff shake up is required after awhile. It's not an overreaction, it's merely a necessity. Look at the national recruiting scene, outside of the tried and true (Kentucky/Duke) new staffs every where are killing it in recruiting. Auburn, Alabama, LSU, California, Texas. New blood always leads to better recruiting after awhile and the longer a staff stays together the quicker every thing goes stale minus a few examples as previously mentioned.

This was supposed to be Sean Miller's best recruiting class, but right now with all the momentum in MSU's corner for Jackson and UNC reportedly having the edge for Lauri after the in home visits this class is about to be Mitch Lightfoot and a couple of grad transfers. Things need to be changed, unless of course every one here is ok with being Iowa State under Fred Hoiberg at best.

Arizona needs a Justin Hutson or Tony Bland or even Stan Johnson in the worst way.
You're bringing all this up in relation to Fox? What Texas recruit does Arizona ever have a realistic shot at?

Who are all of the recruits that Washington is beating out Arizona, Louisville, and Kentucky for? Or is it just Fultz? Washington is still mostly dependent on Seattle talent.

When Arizona recruits outside its region, there has to be a connection. Lauri is in a different class as a European prospect. Who is reporting that NC has the edge with Lauri?

Why do you think MSU has all the momentum for Jackson?

This really has nothing to do with Fox outside of the fact he cancelled a visit with us, which from the outside looks bad for Arizona on a national level although it's meaningless. I nor anybody else should've had any sort of illusion we'd land Fox.

A school like UW landing Fultz is more than enough, outside of that they're beating numerous west coast schools to the punch of very good west coast talent due to better evaluating and recruiting, which is something this staff is currently lacking with Stoudamire gone.

Pasternack is Arizona's connection with all European prospects, so he has usefulness there, but problem is we're prioritizing a guy who has stronger connections to UNC (Roy coached his dad) and Utah (his coach is Hanno Mottola). UNC insiders have that beat in regards to them having an edge after the in homes. They could be full of it, but nobody from Arizona or Utah is making any sort of claim after the visits, so while that's conjecture I tend to subscribe to the whole where there's smoke there's fire in regards to recruiting.

Michigan State just landed Josh's best friend and every where you look there's pro Michigan State sentiments all around this recruitment. Guy has been reportedly favoring AZ and KU prior to Bridges's decision and since then he's been on record saying he favors MSU and AZ. MSU has tons of recruiting momentum and Arizona has absolutely none whatsoever. Momentum matters in today's climate. I'm not saying Jackson is for sure MSU bound, but it's never good when a school who wasn't even top 2 climbs right into it over night.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:52 pm

Longhorned wrote:
gumby wrote:Chief reasons we could have a down recruiting year:

Allonzo Trier
Ray Smith
Justin Simon
Parker Jackson Cartwright
Dusan Ristic
Elliott Pitts
Kadeem Allen
Chance Comanche

Lightfoot and Lauri would bolster weak spots play. Jones and Jackson would add to areas of strength. But I can see why a guy wanting immediate PT would look elsewhere.

Doesn't mean we can't recruit. Means we already have. We're just used to Gordon and Johnson coming and going in one year and expecting the plug-ins to come straight from high school.
How certain are Lauri's people that Jackson isn't coming to Arizona and that Smith will be in the NBA? These are legitimate issues.

But Jackson has no reason to wait and see. If Smith returns and Jackson arrives, Smith will be the 4. Makes sense for Lauri's people to consider that.

Agreed on Jackson. His top two currently has numerous players at his main respective positions. He's far from worried about PT. My guess on Lauri is that Miller's preference for size would make him the favorite to start their immediately. If we land Lauri, Smith is still around, and we land Jackson you play Jackson and Smith at the 2 and 3. May upset Trier, but somebody will always be upset when you land elite talent ahead of them. If Smith is gone then you got Trier and Jackson at the wings.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Fri Oct 09, 2015 4:55 pm

I was starting to get a little worried about our recruiting, so I decided to take a look at our roster. The perceived depth on our current roster is almost unbelievable. Our recruits are looking at the same roster and are trying to project how they might fit in. Good Luck! There are so many question marks on this team, it is impossible to predict. Is PJC going to be our starting point guard for the next 3 years or a solid backup? Is Kadeem Allen going to be the Pac-12 player of the year or a solid backup? I see you Bill Walton. How good are the freshman? Are there any player's ready to move on to the NBA? Am I worried about our recruiting? No. The good news is most of these questions are going to be answered as the season rolls on. One thing that is for certain. We have playing time for a big man no matter what happens.

az91 · Post by **az91** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 12:11 am

ChooChooCat wrote:
ASUHATER! wrote:Yeah seriously...this sky is falling stuff about us potentially having one recruiting year where we just have a top 20 class instead of a top 3 class is weird. Doesn't mean that every other class will be like that
Mitch Lightfoot and a couple of grad transfers is not a top 20 class. That's the issue.

At this point, we should be very happy to at least get Lightfoot. It would be the first good piece of recruiting news we have had since the Leaf debacle.

az91 · Post by **az91** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 12:18 am

ChooChooCat wrote:We were never going to get Fox, but it sure makes Arizona looks like crap that he didn't even bother to visit after setting one up. Miller is a Josh Jackson miss away from needing to clean out house in regards to his coaching staff immediately.

While the entire staff may not need to go, at least one or two assistant coaches should be sent packing if this ends up being as bad of a recruiting year as it appears to be trending currently.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 10:14 am

Kneejerk. Go look at previous classes. You would've been firing and hiring constantly. And what does "good news" mean?

Good news, we landed Prince, Williams and Onobun! The Three Kings! Great job, assistants! Oh, happy day.

Grant Jerrett? Wow! Beers are on me. Sidiki? Seriously? Whoa, can't wait to see him team up with Josiah!

Sometimes it seems like "winning " recruiting is the end point for people who spend way too much time sweating it.

Classes should be evaluated after everyone has left. I know that won't fly with the BFFs of Mel Kiper, but it's the only meaningful measurement.

EOCT · Post by **EOCT** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 12:10 pm

gumby wrote:Kneejerk. Go look at previous classes. You would've been firing and hiring constantly. And what does "good news" mean?

Good news, we landed Prince, Williams and Onobun! The Three Kings! Great job, assistants! Oh, happy day.

Grant Jerrett? Wow! Beers are on me. Sidiki? Seriously? Whoa, can't wait to see him team up with Josiah!

Sometimes it seems like "winning " recruiting is the end point for people who spend way too much time sweating it.

Classes should be evaluated after everyone has left. I know that won't fly with the BFFs of Mel Kiper, but it's the only meaningful measurement.

Logical. Objective. Thank you.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 12:14 pm

az91 wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:
ASUHATER! wrote:Yeah seriously...this sky is falling stuff about us potentially having one recruiting year where we just have a top 20 class instead of a top 3 class is weird. Doesn't mean that every other class will be like that
Mitch Lightfoot and a couple of grad transfers is not a top 20 class. That's the issue.
At this point, we should be very happy to at least get Lightfoot. It would be the first good piece of recruiting news we have had since the Leaf debacle.

Landing a smaller Matt Korcheck isn't exactly a good piece of recruiting news, it's merely just news at the local level that will effect nothing in the long run.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 2:04 pm

gumby wrote:Kneejerk. Go look at previous classes. You would've been firing and hiring constantly. And what does "good news" mean?

Good news, we landed Prince, Williams and Onobun! The Three Kings! Great job, assistants! Oh, happy day.

Grant Jerrett? Wow! Beers are on me. Sidiki? Seriously? Whoa, can't wait to see him team up with Josiah!

Sometimes it seems like "winning " recruiting is the end point for people who spend way too much time sweating it.

Classes should be evaluated after everyone has left. I know that won't fly with the BFFs of Mel Kiper, but it's the only meaningful measurement.

Kneejerk reaction post to my "kneejerk." Nice.

You do realize that the reason Arizona didn't make the tournament in 2012 was solely because of recruiting misses right? Bad recruiting and the recruiting of headcases (Turner/Sidiki) hurt your program in this generation of college basketball and leads to years like that. This isn't the early 2000s or prior where it wasn't a no brainer for players to leave early if they were remotely projected as 1st rounders barring few exceptions, so good developing players don't stay in college to develop any more like they did in the day of old. Lute Olson could survive recruiting classes like Travis Hanour and Andrew Zahn in the early 2000s, because he had NBA players staying 3-4 years on the regular. That does not happen today and it especially does not happen at Arizona. I also don't see the point in bringing up the 2005 class, when Arizona accomplished nothing of worth with that class or much after it primarily due to the bad misses that were JP Prince and Fendi Onobun. That pretty much hurts your cause outside of your snarky comments about recruit rankings, which isn't even the issue since the issue is about recruiting the right talent in general. Now if you're fine with Arizona just being a team that makes the NCAA tournament then sure as long as we land a class here and there like we did for 2015, which includes one apparent NBA talent (Smith), two developing talents (Simon/Comanche), and what should be a pretty good college talent (Trier) then we can do that just fine. If you want Arizona to make an actual final four in today's climate you need better.

I agree that classes should be evaluated after every one has left. That's about the only thing in your post that has any sort of merit to it sorry to say, but a class with a 6'7 center and a couple of grad transfers that only help you for one season doesn't exactly do much for the future of your program, especially if reports about Ray Smith's excellence so far in practice equate to him being a one and done. Remember in today's climate a player that even had a year like Marcus Williams's frosh year is a one and done more often than not.

Look I enjoyed the sarcasm in your post and all, but this isn't about recruit rankings, it's about actually winning something of major substance, which is everyone Arizona fan's issue since 2001. Outside of pure luck (I see you UCONN and Michigan State), talent dictates winning something of substance nowadays. Just ask Duke or Kentucky. Recruiting misses hurt, whether you miss out on all of your targets (what we may be looking at this year) or you recruit the wrong talent (Josiah, Sidiki). Thankfully we aren't doing the latter, but that's about all that's good right now if we miss out on Jackson.

By the way since you brought up the 2005 class, do you know who recruited the two misses that were JP Prince and Fendi Onobun? Josh Pastner. Nobody wins recruiting rankings and gets less out of those "talented" players than Josh. Head coaches need good assistants to evaluate correctly and recruit accordingly primarily because coaches don't have the time to do much of that at all today. It's no surprise when you look back at the fall of the Lute Olson era and look at the assistants he had towards the end.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 2:50 pm

If you go back and read gumby's post, it looks like he's responding to the two posts directly above his, and not your posts, Choo Choo.

But I'd bet gumby is rolling his eyes at your patronizing lecture on Arizona's recruiting history. Yes, gumby knows about Pastner's contributions, the changed nature of recruiting and college player careers over time, and the changed level of reaction among fans with regards to recruiting since the rise of the internet message board.

The difficulty with your point is that we're still talking about 1) a hypothetical scenario where Arizona doesn't land Jackson or Lauri, 2) a hypothetical scenario where Ray Smith leaves after this coming season, and 3) the high likelihood that, even if Smith leaves for the NBA this spring, Arizona is loaded with returning talent that it's developing. The heightened rhetoric about firing assistant coaches seems a little out of keeping with those three points.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 3:03 pm

Longhorned wrote:If you go back and read gumby's post, it looks like he's responding to the two posts directly above his, and not your posts, Choo Choo.

But I'd bet gumby is rolling his eyes at your patronizing lecture on Arizona's recruiting history. Yes, gumby knows about Pastner's contributions, the changed nature of recruiting and college player careers over time, and the changed level of reaction among fans with regards to recruiting since the rise of the internet message board.

The difficulty with your point is that we're still talking about 1) a hypothetical scenario where Arizona doesn't land Jackson or Lauri, 2) a hypothetical scenario where Ray Smith leaves after this coming season, and 3) the high likelihood that, even if Smith leaves for the NBA this spring, Arizona is loaded with returning talent that it's developing. The heightened rhetoric about firing assistant coaches seems a little out of keeping with those three points.

Fair all around. I just didn't subscribe to his reaction that people are losing it over recruiting rankings when that's obviously not the issue. There are 3 hypotheticals that are yet to be decided you are correct there, although to counter your #3 there's nothing that resembles a 4 man developing on this team, especially if Smith is gone (although not his main position as has been discussed ad nauseum).

The rhetoric about firing assistant coaches (it would never come out publicly that anyone would be fired) correlates with hypothetical #1 obviously in the sense we're stuck in the position that it's those two guys or bust for us at this point with the fact that neither are remotely close to guarantees for us and hypothetical #3 by the fact that the guy responsible for most of the remaining major talent outside of Miller himself is no longer on the staff. Either way in my post to Gumby only the last blurb had anything to do with assistants anyways and more to do with his post in general.

Truthfully in the end I'm disappointed that instead of hiring a guy with west coast connections Miller hired a buddy who had no business replacing a guy in Damon Stoudamire's role for the team. We need better than that as the rest of the Pac-12 has caught up for numerous reasons.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:54 pm

Comparing Lightfoot to Korcheck now? Come on

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 7:55 pm

rgdeuce wrote:Comparing Lightfoot to Korcheck now? Come on

And that's the way the game is played. Recruits declared non-contributors before the first college game. It's important to have an opinion NOW! Because if you don't there are consequences. What they are eludes me.

I will be the first to admit the Dion Broom class sucked. Won the natty shortly thereafter.

ChooChoo, keep pumping out those 500-word concern posts. I mean, we didn't make the tourney shortly after four coaches in four years. It's a wonder any player came after that. #apostersprogram

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 8:12 pm

Also, Choo, you missed this point. AT THE TIME we landed the players I noted, this was deemed good news. Of course, you need good players to win. It's the defeatism at this stage that I'm addressing. So much can still happen, but we read about switching out assistants based on "so far." Or one class that is not elite.

You are quick to see trends in this. Too quick, in my opinion.

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Sun Oct 11, 2015 11:48 am

Why is this guy getting all upset about our recruiting class. Signing day hasn't happened yet and you can not fully evaluate a class from a star perspective until the spring time. God look at miller's first class, ended up being great and we had no one far into the spring. I would really relax until the spring signing day. If our class sucks on paper then, I think it is perfectly fine to complain. But until then trust in Miller, our tradition, facilities, loyal fan base, etc. Outside of 2011, the guy has always delivered when it comes to recruiting and no doubt he will do it again.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sun Oct 11, 2015 4:57 pm

rgdeuce wrote:Comparing Lightfoot to Korcheck now? Come on

Why is that not a fair comparison exactly? They have very similar styles and are both local kids. If you have hopes of him being better that's your call, but he pretty much is what he is. If he grew another 2-3 inches though then maybe. I will say that Korcheck was a much better athlete, which does not bode well for Lightfoot's prospects.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sun Oct 11, 2015 5:09 pm

gumby wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:Comparing Lightfoot to Korcheck now? Come on
And that's the way the game is played. Recruits declared non-contributors before the first college game. It's important to have an opinion NOW! Because if you don't there are consequences. What they are eludes me.

I will be the first to admit the Dion Broom class sucked. Won the natty shortly thereafter.

ChooChoo, keep pumping out those 500-word concern posts. I mean, we didn't make the tourney shortly after four coaches in four years. It's a wonder any player came after that. #apostersprogram

Will you also be the first to admit that college basketball today is nothing at all like college basketball during the Lute Olson era or are you going to hide behind the veil that nothing has changed since then? Sean Miller sure has had his most talented players for multiple years just like Lute did.

We didn't make the tourney shortly after four coaches because all Sean Miller could muster up in the 2010 recruiting class was a undersized 4 man that had to play the 5 out of necessity that year and a role playing combo guard, because he struck out on every single major player he pursued that year, but think what you want gumby. We made the Elite 8 a year after recruiting numerous top 100 prospects in the 2009 class who were great kids. I don't consider that a coincidence and I don't consider it a coincidence we didn't make the tourney when we lost a few of those kids that offseason either.

Also why is it not okay to have an opinion now about players who have been scouted umpteen amounts of times from when they are in middle school up to this point of their lives? It's more possible today than it ever has been to know what HS Seniors are capable of doing and what they're not capable of doing. We don't live in a world where we get recruiting news from Greg Hansen and where we have to rely on Lute Olson's pressers to know what exactly he expects out of his new players. There's ready and available information out there just a click away. I guess it's better to be blind, deaf, and dumb, and think Mitch Lightfoot will play a huge role for a national title contending team though.

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:55 pm

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Sun Oct 11, 2015 8:34 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:Comparing Lightfoot to Korcheck now? Come on
Why is that not a fair comparison exactly? They have very similar styles and are both local kids. If you have hopes of him being better that's your call, but he pretty much is what he is. If he grew another 2-3 inches though then maybe. I will say that Korcheck was a much better athlete, which does not bode well for Lightfoot's prospects.

The quick answer is: he's the 32nd ranked PF in his class (composite), top rated in his state, and just outside of a top 100 guy nationally. He has two elite schools after him with offers, an up and coming team thats spending a decent amount of time in the top 25 in Utah, st johns, and stanford, two other respectable programs have also offered.

In an ideal recruiting year maybe we dont go after him hard. But things happen. But comparing him to a guy who went JUCO outta high school? A guy who has length and can shoot? Im sorry, but ive seen enough underrated outta high school 3 star guys with length light us up to know better

And how do u know Korcheck is the much better athlete? Ive seen some writeups praising this kids athleticism

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sun Oct 11, 2015 8:51 pm

rgdeuce wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:Comparing Lightfoot to Korcheck now? Come on
Why is that not a fair comparison exactly? They have very similar styles and are both local kids. If you have hopes of him being better that's your call, but he pretty much is what he is. If he grew another 2-3 inches though then maybe. I will say that Korcheck was a much better athlete, which does not bode well for Lightfoot's prospects.
The quick answer is: he's the 32nd ranked PF in his class (composite), top rated in his state, and just outside of a top 100 guy nationally. He has two elite schools after him with offers, an up and coming team thats spending a decent amount of time in the top 25 in Utah, st johns, and stanford, two other respectable programs have also offered.

In an ideal recruiting year maybe we dont go after him hard. But things happen. But comparing him to a guy who went JUCO outta high school? A guy who has length and can shoot? Im sorry, but ive seen enough underrated outta high school 3 star guys with length light us up to know better

And how do u know Korcheck is the much better athlete? Ive seen some writeups praising this kids athleticism

He's a 6'7 center....I'm not sure what kind of length you think he has. The fact that he's the top rated player in his class in the state speaks to the lack of talent in Arizona for that class and nothing more. In regards to his athleticism is can dunk and that's about it.

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Sun Oct 11, 2015 9:24 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:Comparing Lightfoot to Korcheck now? Come on
Why is that not a fair comparison exactly? They have very similar styles and are both local kids. If you have hopes of him being better that's your call, but he pretty much is what he is. If he grew another 2-3 inches though then maybe. I will say that Korcheck was a much better athlete, which does not bode well for Lightfoot's prospects.

Lightfoot holds a KU offer, as well as ones from Stanford and Utah... In addition, Miller offered him fairly early in the process, too - long before there was any thought Leaf might not end up here.

Matt Korcheck went to a JC out of HS.

If that alone does not speak volumes to you about the differences between the two - then I think it is time you realize you should not be posting any diatribes lecturing others about anything college BB-related.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:03 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote: He's a 6'7 center....I'm not sure what kind of length you think he has. The fact that he's the top rated player in his class in the state speaks to the lack of talent in Arizona for that class and nothing more. In regards to his athleticism is can dunk and that's about it.

Or a 6'8 PF? Not sure why you think he had to play the 5 in college just because thats where his HS team needs him. Or treat him like hes a back to the basket low post guy. Besides, his time playing at the 5 in high school is only going to make him a more dynamic scorer. Brandon Ashley has at best an inch on him, if that, and im sure you had no beef with what he brought to the table offensively.

So when scouts praise athleticism, that covers only dunking? Im pretty sure scouts use other adjectives for someone who is only athletic because they can dunk.

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