Bear Down Wildcats

97cats wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:I have zero knowledge but talking to multiple people today we all touched on this timing...

and what is the one thing EVERYONE in college hoop circles say about Lorenzo Romar?

Sean Miller is a smart and calculating man -- everything is done for a reason and a purpose.

Romar plays an exciting brand of offense but his teams lack defense?

threenumberones wrote:

97cats wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:Paternack leaves...Romar hired...all around the same time as the Feds start up with us.

hmmmmmmmmm

Projection or do you actually know something? I don't need to know it - only want to know where you sit on the bs meter.

So Sean would be a witness, a fed confidant? I mean, wow.

don't know how the future involvement progresses, but Coach Miller and Arizona was WAY WAY out in front of this as much as it was possible.

the NCAA still is the matter hanging outside that I don't have knowledge to comment on

Bosy Billups wrote:

97cats wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:I have zero knowledge but talking to multiple people today we all touched on this timing...

and what is the one thing EVERYONE in college hoop circles say about Lorenzo Romar?

Sean Miller is a smart and calculating man -- everything is done for a reason and a purpose.

Romar plays an exciting brand of offense but his teams lack defense?

hahahahaha -- that's good, bosy

The other thing to note is that no program not head coach is named in the indictment. Also I believe (been long day) the UA is basically the victim in the indictment.

Someone can correct me if I’m wrong.

Olsondogg wrote:The other thing to note is that no program not head coach is named in the indictment. Also I believe (been long day) the UA is basically the victim in the indictment.

Someone can correct me if I’m wrong.

you're not wrong

Olsondogg wrote:The other thing to note is that no program not head coach is named in the indictment. Also I believe (been long day) the UA is basically the victim in the indictment.

Someone can correct me if I’m wrong.

I don't know but that's my understanding, too.

Longhorned wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:The other thing to note is that no program not head coach is named in the indictment. Also I believe (been long day) the UA is basically the victim in the indictment.

Someone can correct me if I’m wrong.

I don't know but that's my understanding, too.

you're not wrong either

Also, the NCAA won’t do shit until feds are done. And they basically resemble a neutered, 3 legged, obese blind dog in this story.

I doubt they really want their prized pig dragged through the shit pen like this.

Olsondogg wrote:Also, the NCAA won’t do shit until feds are done. And they basically resemble a neutered, 3 legged, obese blind dog in this story.

I doubt they really want their prized pig dragged through the shit pen like this.

the FEDS want Adidas, nothing else -- think about that for a moment

Then Nike.

97cats wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:Also, the NCAA won’t do shit until feds are done. And they basically resemble a neutered, 3 legged, obese blind dog in this story.

I doubt they really want their prized pig dragged through the shit pen like this.

the FEDS want Adidas, nothing else -- think about that for a moment

Holy shit.

This is cause of TJ leaf flipping. Miller took that hard.

jajoyce wrote:At the end of the day isn’t this just called lobbying. Happens every minute in DC and in every town with a political body in this country. You pay people/do favors in exchange for things you want.

Pretty simple in my eyes.

Well that would be simply be paying players. Which I don't have any problem with tbh.

But taking money to exploit a relationship w kids to push them to shady agents & financial advisers & shoe companies is completely different. The coaches are doing it for their own gain.

Had a lawyer friend text me from Chicago today. She couldn’t believe fed would go after the coaches for this. Said it had to involve something bigger.

It’s not her field of expertise but it smelled off to her.

97cats wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:Also, the NCAA won’t do shit until feds are done. And they basically resemble a neutered, 3 legged, obese blind dog in this story.

I doubt they really want their prized pig dragged through the shit pen like this.

the FEDS want Adidas, nothing else -- think about that for a moment

At the very least, most sports fans are concerned about the recipients of benefits and the people disbursing them (coaches, players). Why would the FBI be interested in working that direction instead of the source of the money/bribes?

NYCat wrote:I believe the program/Miller will survive.

But it isn't all rosey, Little & Quinerly won't play college anywhere.

If there's someone who was paid on this year's team and that comes out this year or 2-4+ years down the line, well this current season would be erased. Plus a future post season ban for a team who wasn't involved (if it doesn't come out anytime soon), scholarship reduction.

So no we didn't die, but we got like a couple of broken ribs that could cause internal complications later down the line.

The timing has worked out perfectly for Little. He never committed and never took money. He's free to go wherever he pleases. Quinerly on the other hand....better hope Book didn't pay up.

Btw if 97 says it's so you'd be a moron to think otherwise.

Olsondogg wrote:Had a lawyer friend text me from Chicago today. She couldn’t believe fed would go after the coaches for this. Said it had to involve something bigger.

It’s not her field of expertise but it smelled off to her.

and that is where you now turn to Louisville and Bowen (who az backed off on) and the 150k (the standard amount) provided by (you know who) and it all starts to make sense.

Arizona backs off Bowen just at the right time, and bingo .....stay with me people

there is a bigger fish to fry....and more to follow with bigger names and bigger schools

20k is nothing

97cats wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:Also, the NCAA won’t do shit until feds are done. And they basically resemble a neutered, 3 legged, obese blind dog in this story.

I doubt they really want their prized pig dragged through the shit pen like this.

the FEDS want Adidas, nothing else -- think about that for a moment

This is how I see it.

Agree with Olsondogg too, they will surely have been looking at Nike. Hell... If you read the Brian Bowen part, it actually states that adidas was told to up their original offer because a rival shoe company was offering more. Only could be UA or Nike.

As a side note, someone alluded to Bowen's family flipped on UL too. Who knows.

I’ve seen the timeline too...but seemed just coincidental to me...

For those who need help, is this the storyline: Book/Past caught having relations with Adidas. Word gets back to Miller, with Fed involvement, and Miller/UA cooperate to finish their sting op? Get premium?

If Adidas, Nike go down.. are we ready for puma, new balance, Russell, big baller brand to rule college?

97cats wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:Had a lawyer friend text me from Chicago today. She couldn’t believe fed would go after the coaches for this. Said it had to involve something bigger.

It’s not her field of expertise but it smelled off to her.

and that is where you now turn to Louisville and Bowen (who az backed off on) and the 150k (the standard amount) provided by (you know who) and it all starts to make sense.

Arizona backs off Bowen just at the right time, and bingo .....stay with me people

there is a bigger fish to fry....and more to follow with bigger names and bigger schools

20k is nothing

So.. 20k just planted bait money to catch them on the taps? Holy heroes

NYCat wrote:If Adidas, Nike go down.. are we ready for puma, new balance, Russell, big baller brand to rule college?

No. I’m ready for shoe money to stop controlling recruiting.

This whole article is a very good read, but a highly recommend reading this part:

THE DEFENSES

A criminal case involving a high-profile defendant or a newsworthy subject often seems most convincing when it first becomes public. This is because the media has only heard from prosecutors, who naturally depict the purported facts and allegations to appear airtight.

In the coming weeks and months, attorneys for the defendants will likely offer rebuttals to the allegations. There are a number of defenses to these kinds of charges. The most obvious defense is, “it didn't happen." If, however, there are—as the complaints contend—numerous audio and visual recordings, emails, financial and travel records and corroborating statements by witnesses, it would prove very challenging for the defendants to assert that the government's narrative is fundamentally untrue.

With that in mind, the attorneys will likely claim that the government will be unable to prove “intent." Intent is a key element in these charges. The prosecution must prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that not only the events depicted in the complaint occurred but that the defendants acted to further the purpose of their conspiracy and criminal act.

Along those lines, the defendants might argue that their conduct merely constituted “business as usual" behavior in 21st Century American college sports. It is no secret bribes have taken place in big-time college sports for years—decades, really. The defendants could assert they could not have “intended" to commit a crime if they engaged in commonplace conduct that, while technically in violation of NCAA rules, often goes without detection. The fact that this type of conduct normally goes undetected isn't all that surprising: in most cases, a college coach and college player obtain money or gifts from a would-be advisor or agent, and, after turning pro, the player hires that advisor or agent. Everyone is happy. It is rare that a Reggie Bush situation occurs where the player doesn't hire the would-be agent who provided the gifts and legal fallout follows. Here, the government investigated, found a cooperating witness with key access and convinced that person to share everything.

Along those lines, expect the defense attorneys to portray any cooperating witnesses as untruthful and unreliable. Such witnesses are from the same turf, if you will, as those who have been charged. To that end, defense attorneys will assert that cooperating witnesses are throwing others under the bus to save themselves. Further, expect to hear that cooperating witnesses have an incentive to exaggerate in order to seem more useful to prosecutors.

Defense attorneys might also object to the admissibility of certain kinds of evidence. It appears the government used recordings of individuals to build the case. Sometimes defense attorneys can raise questions about whether those recordings were conducted in accordance with state laws and pursuant to necessary warrants.

One key decision for the co-defendants and their attorneys will be whether to try to cut a deal early with prosecutors. Prosecutors sometimes offer limited time plea deals to co-defendants. In such a deal, a co-defendant is offered a chance to plead guilty and secure a promise from the prosecutor that he or she will recommend a light punishment to the sentencing judge. In exchange, the co-defendant agrees to turn over all evidence and testify against his co-defendants.

Therein lies the “prisoner's dilemma": if none of the co-defendants takes the government's deal, the government will be less likely to convict all of them, but each co-defendant worries that another will take the deal. In turn, this worry makes each co-defendant more likely to cut a deal.

https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2 ... twitter_si" target="_blank

SunnyAZ wrote:

3 year sting operation and this is all they find on us? Solid

"This is all"? This is enough, isn't it?

You know, whoever related that story about Book asking to borrow $40 while he was making six figures as one of our assistants was so right.

He also triggered my damn memory again.

Many of you have read how I was one of those volunteers who stayed to the end of the 2007 Cactus Classic, even after Miles Simon was gone.

It was just Pastner, Storey, Storey's dad and...you guessed it...Book's NY Gauchos AAU squad (with Kemba Walker in the group).

Storey's dad and I drove Book and the Gauchos to Tucson International. On the way, stopped off at Burger King.

You know the memory doesn't "click" about certain things until someone is arrested? That's how it was today with that $40 story.

I remember being in the back of the line, paying for my own meal.

At the front of the line was Book telling Storey, "Thanks man, I really appreciate that," as Storey hands him a wad of cash. Book then plunks it on the counter as each player goes through the line.

Jesus Christ. Book was crying poor even before he got to Tucson. He had Storey pay for every f*cking player's dinner at BK.

In the chronicles of "most corrupt day of my life and I didn't even know it," that final day of the Cactus Classic wins hands down.

Any of you have a good joke about how the NCAA can nail you for free pizza AND Burger King? I could use it right about now.

Here’s a question. All the other schools lawyered up. Did UA?

I wanna say I read usc hired a former fbi lawyer?!?

97cats wrote:

threenumberones wrote:

97cats wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:Paternack leaves...Romar hired...all around the same time as the Feds start up with us.

hmmmmmmmmm

Projection or do you actually know something? I don't need to know it - only want to know where you sit on the bs meter.

So Sean would be a witness, a fed confidant? I mean, wow.

don't know how the future involvement progresses, but Coach Miller and Arizona was WAY WAY out in front of this as much as it was possible.

the NCAA still is the matter hanging outside that I don't have knowledge to comment on

Thanks, but the docket implicates that a current player has already taken money. Would Sean really blow the whistle on that? Or maybe he didn't know at that point. Or is it possible that the player went to Sean and told him about the money, and that's how this whole thing started?

So did Miller call another time out on Alford late

I'm not sure anyone on the outside (media, fans, etc..) knows how the rest of this will play out and how deep it will go. Some telling comments from the Feds that basically says, "if you know you're guilty it's best to come forward now."

I won't shed a tear if L'Ville AD Tom Jurich goes down. I've witnessed his actions since his NAU days. The guy has gamed and played the system like a maestro. Even back in the mid-90's after he took the job at CSU, Jurich rewarded his buddies at NAU by having them flown out to the Holiday Bowl to watch CSU. It was clearly on someone else's dime. The whole thing looked so dirty at the time and I was amazed the people in the NAU athletic department didn't bat an eye in taking the "free" trip to San Diego. I've watched from afar as Jurich played his cards at Louisville with Petino and football coach Bobby Petrino. I don't know how you can be a Louisville fan and not blush at the obscenity of it all.

97cats wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:Also, the NCAA won’t do shit until feds are done. And they basically resemble a neutered, 3 legged, obese blind dog in this story.

I doubt they really want their prized pig dragged through the shit pen like this.

the FEDS want Adidas, nothing else -- think about that for a moment

This is amazing. My god we might not have to ever look at an adidas sleeved uniform ever again.

Olsondogg wrote:Had a lawyer friend text me from Chicago today. She couldn’t believe fed would go after the coaches for this. Said it had to involve something bigger.

It’s not her field of expertise but it smelled off to her.

Generally speaking the feds don't waste their time with anything under the "millions" category. There absolutely is something bigger here. I am guessing massive Adidas money laundering of some sort based on nothing more than my tinfoil hat and hatred for adidas.

Olsondogg wrote:Here’s a question. All the other schools lawyered up. Did UA?

I wanna say I read usc hired a former fbi lawyer?!?

Read that too. Luis Freeh.

zonagrad wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:Here’s a question. All the other schools lawyered up. Did UA?

I wanna say I read usc hired a former fbi lawyer?!?

Read that too. Luis Freeh.

That's not just a former FBI lawyer. That's the former director of the FBI. That's how big this is.

Longhorned wrote:

97cats wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:Also, the NCAA won’t do shit until feds are done. And they basically resemble a neutered, 3 legged, obese blind dog in this story.

I doubt they really want their prized pig dragged through the shit pen like this.

the FEDS want Adidas, nothing else -- think about that for a moment

Holy shit.

Yeah the theoretical implications/potential results of that, if you want to make a mental leap or two from that baseline idea, are fascinating.

I'm definitely more interested in seeing where this leads than I was about 7 am this morning.

azcat49 wrote:AZ with assist to clean up college ball recruiting. Miller is a witch

Lol. Yes! I needed this laugh.

MIND BLOWN! I go to a kids school meeting and I come back to this?!!!?!? Craziness. If true miller is a witch. Gettin through the rest of the thread back on page 9

splitsecond wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:Had a lawyer friend text me from Chicago today. She couldn’t believe fed would go after the coaches for this. Said it had to involve something bigger.

It’s not her field of expertise but it smelled off to her.

Generally speaking the feds don't waste their time with anything under the "millions" category. There absolutely is something bigger here. I am guessing massive Adidas money laundering of some sort based on nothing more than my tinfoil hat and hatred for adidas.

Not true. They go after regular joes who swindle 100-200k in mortgage fraud all the time, people who steal mail, etc. The amount of money holds a bit of weight, but victim types and number of victims, how slam dunk of a case is it, the suspicion or hint of evidence that this could lead to something huge (as u stated), and other factors are also at play. The feds also tend to put more emphasis on particular crimes at certain types (eg: the focus in 2016 is going to be child trafficking and child porn crimes, now in 2017 we are going to focus on fraud and white collar crimes), so stuff that usually may be overlooked one year could be what the Attorney General wants to go after this year.

The Feds salivate at corporate corruption and the thought of taking down big shoe companies would be their wet dream. I've been telling people all day that the FBI isn't looking to take down college coaches. They could care less about that.

One interesting thing to note is that Adidas has remained an OTC traded company and Nike is listed on the NYSE. The regulations and required disclosures are totally different for an OTC company than they are with a Nasdaq or NYSE listed organization. It would much easier for Adidas to commit fraud and move money to different places than it would a company like Nike.

To 97's info. I hope that is somehow true and I haven't heard that. But I do know that Miller has been fed up with the Adidas thing for quite sometime. I can't see him being okay with accepting money from them and I can definitely see him loving the idea of taking them down.

So, safe to get excited about AZ basketball this season, or no?

97cats wrote:

Bosy Billups wrote:Timeline? Book was busted 3 years ago, had a mini suspension, then struck a deal to be an informant for the feds? Hmmm? #Homeland

Look at the timeline for when THIS investigation involved Richardson -- much tighter ...it's all in black and white.

I think I smell what your cooking and it smells delicious.

Very very interesting...

Olsondogg wrote:Here’s a question. All the other schools lawyered up. Did UA?

I wanna say I read usc hired a former fbi lawyer?!?

Gotta think crimal defense attorneys are among the individual attorneys Universities retain. USC must have learned from their boy Juice that stuff this big requires the best.

Bosy Billups wrote:So, safe to get excited about AZ basketball this season, or no?

It sounds like guys on the current roster took money, so any excitement will be tempered by this allegation. Who are we losing? Ayton? Randolph? Alkins? All three?

rgdeuce wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:Here’s a question. All the other schools lawyered up. Did UA?

I wanna say I read usc hired a former fbi lawyer?!?

Gotta think crimal defense attorneys are among the individual attorneys Universities retain. USC must have learned from their boy Juice that stuff this big requires the best.

Oh I’m sure they have regular counsel...but when the fbi knocks...

Beachcat97 wrote:

Bosy Billups wrote:So, safe to get excited about AZ basketball this season, or no?

It sounds like guys on the current roster took money, so any excitement will be tempered by this allegation. Who are we losing? Ayton? Randolph? Alkins? All three?

Read again. And this isn’t an NCAA issue currently.

Lol now there's a rumor that Rawle broke a foot today. FucK it all.

Longhorned wrote:I don't see how Miller could get in front of this without working with the appropriate offices on campus at the same time. It would be a notch above "self-reporting." It would involve Arizona being a willing part of the undercover investigation itself.

Which makes Larry scotts miller hate filled sanctimonious diatribe even more infuriating. He responded out of spite without knowing the whole story.

Wow. I don't look for 3 hours and come back to this.

Olsondogg wrote:The other thing to note is that no program not head coach is named in the indictment. Also I believe (been long day) the UA is basically the victim in the indictment.

Someone can correct me if I’m wrong.

Youre correct, and astutely caught the (in essence) redactions, which in most cases is done to protect the identity of victims and certain third parties (confidential sources, cooperators, witnesses, etc), minors, people who are of interest or currently under investigation, etc. Im guessing Miller by extension would be a victim even though the Universities are the only named victims in the complaint (IIRC).

This is sexy stuff, really, it just sucks it had to involve our program. But hearing what 97 has had to say, and based on some clues dropped by others on social media regarding the scope and "more to come," there is promise that we may at least get a silver lining in this timeline and then await to see how things go w the NCAA. Definitely feel better now then I was on my walk into work.

I'm slightly drunk on a Tuesday. This thread is hard to understand. I think it understand it.

So, maybe not as much drinking tomorrow?

97cats wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:Also, the NCAA won’t do shit until feds are done. And they basically resemble a neutered, 3 legged, obese blind dog in this story.

I doubt they really want their prized pig dragged through the shit pen like this.

the FEDS want Adidas, nothing else -- think about that for a moment

Good stuff and I'm getting caught up; where is the connection between adidas and Arizona? I though book just talked with the agent/broker and player/family to the tune of 20k

Lville is in some serious deep kimchi with the role of adidas in the Bowen recruitment. Also did Arizona/Miller flip on Miami for the little recruitment to add another piece to the timing?!? Miami is an adidas school.