Bear Down Wildcats

gumby wrote:Goes for the performing arts, too. Stage parents and sports parents. Hell, even Spelling Bee parents.

Think I may watch Little Miss Sunshine again, just so I can see how these parents do it.

dirtbags wrote: makes me wonder how much of the rabid sports parenting is pushing kids to become affluent pros vs. living vicariously through their sports achievements. or maybe something else. i used to think it was mostly the former, but have seen parents in wrestling -- a sport with no path from amateurism to the pros (MMA is neither a desired destination nor feasible for most) or the olympics (no real freestyle or greco at the prep or college level) -- push their kids to train, compete, travel, and diet year 'round from a very very young age. it's not uncommon for elite wrestlers to travel cross-country on their own dime, compete in day-long tourneys & duals (with some of the biggest events falling on xmas and new years) on weekends, endure life-altering injuries & disfigurement, and have no late-childhood memories of like, thanksgiving because they've always been focused on making weight. and for what? a half-ride scholly to some d1 midwestern school?

not trying to disqualify the impact of aau on these kids' lives in sports like basketball, but there's just as much ugliness without them as well.

My sister was in competitive gymnastics when she was younger. This was back in the early 90s. She trained under the former U of A gymcats coach and a former olympian from a South American country. Both good people who werent maniacs and even then, the training and pressure on 5-13 year old girls was crazy to see. That sport destroys bodies and one girl in particular who was an olympic hopeful seemingly spent her entire summer days in that gym. She spent one year away from her family at a gym in another state, it was either USA coach Bela Karolyi's gym or someone who worked with him. She had an emotional meltdown everyone decided it was best she come back to Tucson to regroup/train for awhile. I overheard the stories of how things were there when the moms would talk about it. Her parents were WILD, just downright mean. How u would expect an overbearing and abusive "football dad" would be. I was only 10 at the time and I think she was my age. The U of A coach coaches Kerri Strug before she went off to Karolyi, and this girl was supposed to be the next Keri Strug. Seriously worse than any stuff I saw in this documentary and again, almost none of that came from the Tucson coaches.

Cool fact: I walked into the training room looking for my mom during one of the practices and saw a college gymnasts vagina. epic

dirtbags wrote:

prh wrote: I came here to say that, it was crazy. Aside from the events in Tucson, you had Stanley, Jerryd, Miles, and I feel like a few others I don't remember. I didn't even notice CV or the pgu trash

And if I hear "bust yo ass" one more time in my entire life, I might hit somebody. He was even more obnoxious than I expected.

going off of memory, i remember seeing PJC, gabe, stanley, miles, jerryd, CSM, coach book, iggy, anderson, ayton, maybe jerrett? (not sure) plus the all the guys during their shoots in tucson (TJ, nick, bash, etc.). i'm sure someone with better eyes will spot others.


about the york scene in vegas - hard to hold anything against 18 year old gabe, given all the pampering, accolades, and whatever ego-inflating came from his aau coaches. was more disturbed by the way the aau coach held potential recruits as ransom and tried to manage our team by proxy. others have mentioned it here before, but it was astonishing how blatant he was about it.

Yea my wife watched it w me and after was sayin how Gabe looked like a little bitch in it. I had to tell her how that is completely understandable based on how these kids are treated and how some of the adults around them act. They pump that BS in their heads. Those Magic coaches are gangbangers doing a legal but completely unethical hustle, and seeing them pretend like they care is sickening

rgdeuce wrote:

dirtbags wrote: makes me wonder how much of the rabid sports parenting is pushing kids to become affluent pros vs. living vicariously through their sports achievements. or maybe something else. i used to think it was mostly the former, but have seen parents in wrestling -- a sport with no path from amateurism to the pros (MMA is neither a desired destination nor feasible for most) or the olympics (no real freestyle or greco at the prep or college level) -- push their kids to train, compete, travel, and diet year 'round from a very very young age. it's not uncommon for elite wrestlers to travel cross-country on their own dime, compete in day-long tourneys & duals (with some of the biggest events falling on xmas and new years) on weekends, endure life-altering injuries & disfigurement, and have no late-childhood memories of like, thanksgiving because they've always been focused on making weight. and for what? a half-ride scholly to some d1 midwestern school?

not trying to disqualify the impact of aau on these kids' lives in sports like basketball, but there's just as much ugliness without them as well.

My sister was in competitive gymnastics when she was younger. This was back in the early 90s. She trained under the former U of A gymcats coach and a former olympian from a South American country. Both good people who werent maniacs and even then, the training and pressure on 5-13 year old girls was crazy to see. That sport destroys bodies and one girl in particular who was an olympic hopeful seemingly spent her entire summer days in that gym. She spent one year away from her family at a gym in another state, it was either USA coach Bela Karolyi's gym or someone who worked with him. She had an emotional meltdown everyone decided it was best she come back to Tucson to regroup/train for awhile. I overheard the stories of how things were there when the moms would talk about it. Her parents were WILD, just downright mean. How u would expect an overbearing and abusive "football dad" would be. I was only 10 at the time and I think she was my age. The U of A coach coaches Kerri Strug before she went off to Karolyi, and this girl was supposed to be the next Keri Strug. Seriously worse than any stuff I saw in this documentary and again, almost none of that came from the Tucson coaches.

Cool fact: I walked into the training room looking for my mom during one of the practices and saw a college gymnasts vagina. epic

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2016/12/1 ... veals.html" target="_blank

That's one spinoff of the ugliness in youth sports. Kids and parents are so desperate to make it, they're easy prey.

23 minutes / game vs. 29 mins pre injury. Hope PJC's 100% ready to rock and roll by the 21st.

“The one thing I’m excited about is the next seven-day window gives him a chance to get some rest,” Miller said. “He’ll be at seven weeks since he got hurt and I think he’ll have that next gear that maybe he doesn’t quite have. He’s doing the best job he can, but he wants to be 100 percent, we want him to be 100 percent, and we need him to be moving forward.”

http://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketball ... ing-lineup" target="_blank

It'd be great if he could find his shot now that he's got a week to look for it...

Puerco wrote:It'd be great if he could find his shot now that he's got a week to look for it...

17% from 3 on the season, 0-10 in conference play.

Returned to his away conference game form, I see. PJC has got to have the biggest difference in home vs. away statistics of any player since I've been following UA hoops.

Puerco wrote:Returned to his away conference game form, I see. PJC has got to have the biggest difference in home vs. away statistics of any player since I've been following UA hoops.

This made me curious so I looked at the numbers.

2017
0-7 3FG% Pac-12 Road Games
0-3 3FG% Pac-12 Home Games

2016
3-11 (27%) 3FG% Pac-12 Road Games
15-26 (58%) 3FG% Pac-12 Home Games

Pretty big disparity in the number of attempts as well.

loomer wrote:

Puerco wrote:Returned to his away conference game form, I see. PJC has got to have the biggest difference in home vs. away statistics of any player since I've been following UA hoops.

This made me curious so I looked at the numbers.

2017
0-7 3FG% Pac-12 Road Games
0-3 3FG% Pac-12 Home Games

2016
3-11 (27%) 3FG% Pac-12 Road Games
15-26 (58%) 3FG% Pac-12 Home Games

Pretty big disparity in the number of attempts as well.

Well, look at the bright side. His 3 point % is identical home and away in 2017 after being -31 in 2016.

He just needs two to go down and then his confidence will return. Unfortunately that means he needs to keep shooting.

His shot last night was the least of my worries.

I felt bad for him since his parents were in attendance.

Miller took him out in crunch time when USC almost caught up, but it was good to see him out there to finish the game, hopefully increasing his confidence.

Was a very long game for PJC in all aspects of the game.

Assuming PJC's game last night was a momentary departure from his recent performances, what is his role against UCLA? On defense, how much more effective will Allen be on Lonzo Ball? Enough to bother him a little? Is it worth what you give up by taking Allen away from his own strengths on offense, and missing out on PJC's ability to pick apart UCLA's loose defense?

Ball is so talented that there's no point in bullying a smaller defender, and he won't. I'd rather have PJC out there for more rather than fewer backup minutes. But if PJC is ineffective like last night, I don't know what to say.

Longhorned wrote:Assuming PJC's game last night was a momentary departure from his recent performances, what is his role against UCLA? On defense, how much more effective will Allen be on Lonzo Ball? Enough to bother him a little? Is it worth what you give up by taking Allen away from his own strengths on offense, and missing out on PJC's ability to pick apart UCLA's loose defense?

Ball is so talented that there's no point in bullying a smaller defender, and he won't. I'd rather have PJC out there for more rather than fewer backup minutes. But if PJC is ineffective like last night, I don't know what to say.

I'd play a normal rotation until and unless the game dictates otherwise. I do think Allen is definitely the guy on Ball. Ball is the one who initiates so much for UCLA, you need your best defender for him. UCLA's D will compensate for any offensive effect.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Longhorned wrote:Assuming PJC's game last night was a momentary departure from his recent performances, what is his role against UCLA? On defense, how much more effective will Allen be on Lonzo Ball? Enough to bother him a little? Is it worth what you give up by taking Allen away from his own strengths on offense, and missing out on PJC's ability to pick apart UCLA's loose defense?

Ball is so talented that there's no point in bullying a smaller defender, and he won't. I'd rather have PJC out there for more rather than fewer backup minutes. But if PJC is ineffective like last night, I don't know what to say.

I'd play a normal rotation until and unless the game dictates otherwise. I do think Allen is definitely the guy on Ball. Ball is the one who initiates so much for UCLA, you need your best defender for him. UCLA's D will compensate for any offensive effect.

I agree, but PJC might make them compensate more. PJC will find momentarily undefended cutters all afternoon long, unless he's more interested in telegraphed cross-court passes.

PJC looks like he's not getting the normal lift out of his legs in his three point shots since coming back from the ankle injury. Likely just mental - getting back to knowing he can jump and land safely. Possible still some conditioning.

Regarding playing vs UCLA: I want PJC out there as much as possible. Our offense is far more effective with PJC running the point and we need all the offense we can get against UCLA.

I'm guessing Allen is in every minute that Ball is and defends him at all times. His minutes at the 2 will come at the expense of Kobi and Rawle.

Chicat wrote:I'm guessing Allen is in every minute that Ball is and defends him at all times. His minutes at the 2 will come at the expense of Kobi and Rawle.

But especially at the expense of Kobi, since Miller is more likely to play Rawle alongside PJC and Kadeem. I'd take Kadeem over Kobi as much as possible.

Not sure who PJC will cover. Alford is at least 6" taller than him and will shoot right over PJC. At least Alford won't blow by PJC like was done to PJC last night.

some stats:

since his return (six games) Cartwright is averaging 2.33 ppg on 5-24 from the floor with zero three point makes in ten attempts.

he's had three games in that stretch without a field goal made -- two on the road and one at home.

he has a strong thirty-three assists vs eight turnovers and has grabbed thirteen rebounds and swiped eight steals.

he's also collected thirteen personal fouls while logging an average of 22.8 mpg and is 4-6 from the line.

He's doing fantastically...except for putting the ball in the bucket. Which is fixable and won't always be this bad.

What's his +/-?

I imagine UCLA will double Ristic and/or LM down and let PJC shoot all game.

Does Ramon go to PJC's home games too? I can't imagine him being at USC didn't help Parker's game.

ASUHATER! wrote:He's doing fantastically...except for putting the ball in the bucket. Which is fixable and won't always be this bad.

one again we see things completely differently -- hes been ok, an adequate backup with some low-lows.....certainly nowhere near "fantastically"

Merkin wrote:What's his +/-?

i never look at that stat in basketball -- very misleading

Merkin wrote:I imagine UCLA will double Ristic and/or LM down and let PJC shoot all game.

maybe -- i dont think UCLA is concerned about it and will focus more on attacking him on defense whenever hes in the game, that will be a hot point.

Merkin wrote:Does Ramon go to PJC's home games too? I can't imagine him being at USC didn't help Parker's game.

smh

97cats wrote:some stats:

since his return (six games) Cartwright is averaging 2.33 ppg on 5-24 from the floor with zero three point makes in ten attempts.

he's had three games in that stretch without a field goal made -- two on the road and one at home.

he has a strong thirty-three assists vs eight turnovers and has grabbed thirteen rebounds and swiped eight steals.

he's also collected thirteen personal fouls while logging an average of 22.8 mpg and is 4-6 from the line.

All that adds up to a reliable true point guard off the bench, which is a rare asset and a valuable one when the offense is flowing and the team is scoring. When the offense looks like it did last night while he was in the game, combined with the disadvantage of defending the point, having him on the floor is just an opportunity cost in exchange for resting starters.

ASUHATER! wrote:He's doing fantastically...except for putting the ball in the bucket. Which is fixable and won't always be this bad.

I just don't see it like this. He has a decent a/to ratio, but 5.4 assists in 26 mpg isn't mindblowing when that is your thing. His D is ok, but doesn't stand out. He needs to make shots to be more than a reserve.

Truthfully the only game since his return where I was thinking "Jesus, wtf Parker," was this last game. He didn't have it in any realm of the game yesterday. His 3 point shot not falling makes him nearly worthless offensively outside of the times he makes perfect passes (few and far between last night). He was benched in crunch time last night and rightfully so. To my recollection he's always been awful on the LA trip (his home crowd).

This game won't be close.

i am gonna let myself believe that last night's game was an anomaly for PJC and that he'll continue the upward trajectory he was on since returning to the lineup. not worried about his offense or passing as much as him falling asleep on defense. i think he's got the athleticism and long arms to defend little alf and holiday, and i guess help KA try to put a lid on loball.

Beachcat97 wrote:This game won't be close.

Vegas only has us as a 4 point dog, ditto with Kenpom.

ChooChooCat wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:This game won't be close.

Vegas only has us as a 4 point dog, ditto with Kenpom.

For those with the means, bet big on ucla tomorrow. That's as close to a lock as you'll ever find.

ChooChooCat wrote:Truthfully the only game since his return where I was thinking "Jesus, wtf Parker," was this last game. He didn't have it in any realm of the game yesterday. His 3 point shot not falling makes him nearly worthless offensively outside of the times he makes perfect passes (few and far between last night). He was benched in crunch time last night and rightfully so. To my recollection he's always been awful on the LA trip (his home crowd).

yep, would love to see PJC log a huge game in LA. chance, too.

Beachcat97 wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:This game won't be close.

Vegas only has us as a 4 point dog, ditto with Kenpom.

For those with the means, bet big on ucla tomorrow. That's as close to a lock as you'll ever find.

You are literally the worst.

For those with the means, wear Depends. You're going to soil yourself.

ChooChooCat wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:This game won't be close.

Vegas only has us as a 4 point dog, ditto with Kenpom.

Yeah, but Vegas hates Arizona. Beachcat is right. We're fixing to take the Bruins to the woodshed and spank that ass.

BC, the fake reverse jinx schtick isn't funny now and won't be later either. Give it up.

Puerco wrote:BC, the fake reverse jinx schtick isn't funny now and won't be later either. Give it up.

If we win, there is no "later" for BeachBruin.

As soon as PJC hit his first 3, I cracked a huge smile and yelled finally in the middle of the bar. Glad He was able to see one go through the net.

Frybry02 wrote:As soon as PJC hit his first 3, I cracked a huge smile and yelled finally in the middle of the bar. Glad He was able to see one go through the net.

Great confidence boost day for PJC. He may not have played a ton, but he made an impact when he did. Hopefully those 2 threes will get help his shot return, but he also had 4 assists and a steal, with no turnovers.

prh wrote:

Frybry02 wrote:As soon as PJC hit his first 3, I cracked a huge smile and yelled finally in the middle of the bar. Glad He was able to see one go through the net.

Great confidence boost day for PJC. He may not have played a ton, but he made an impact when he did. Hopefully those 2 threes will get help his shot return, but he also had 4 assists and a steal, with no turnovers.

He looked more confident than he has since he came back, which is especially important because it was on the road.

Yep, good to see PJC play a decent game away from home, at least statistically. When he was in I kept thinking they needed to get him out, but I was thinking that about Commanche and Pinder as well. Allen and the other starters were just so damn good yesterday.

Honestly everyone outside of Pinder played well. Which we needed to go into Pauley and come out w a W.

97 is basically a PJC troll at this point. It's literally like the only thing he posts about.

Beachcat97 wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:This game won't be close.

Vegas only has us as a 4 point dog, ditto with Kenpom.

For those with the means, bet big on ucla tomorrow. That's as close to a lock as you'll ever find.

Does anyone ever take betting advice from obvious trolls?

Hopefully this game brought back confidence in his shot. He's gonna get even more open looks from this point on

Olsondogg wrote:97 is basically a PJC troll at this point. It's literally like the only thing he posts about.

I get his beef and it has less to do with the fact PJC is on this team, but rather that Arizona, with the reputation of Point Guard U (regardless of the piece of shit website), should have an elite point guard more often than a total of 2 years in an 8 year period, and we shouldn't have to attract one via transfer.

I'm not a PJC hater by any stretch, he brings value, and I love him in his current role, but he's not an elite level point guard. It's quite frankly odd and frustrating that Arizona under Sean Miller has had trouble recruiting elite level point guards, namely due to our reputation for one, but also the fact our head man was a point guard himself. We got screwed out of one in this class (Jaylen Hands) due to the Compton Magic filtering kids to UCLA at a very efficient rate, so it's hard to be upset about that, but regardless it's still a bit frustrating. Maybe that changes in the 2018 class or maybe we recruit Trevon Duval, get him to commit, convince him to actually attend college, and somehow gets his transcripts in order. Either way it'd be great to reverse this trend soon.

ChooChooCat wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:97 is basically a PJC troll at this point. It's literally like the only thing he posts about.

I get his beef and it has less to do with the fact PJC is on this team, but rather that Arizona, with the reputation of Point Guard U (regardless of the piece of shit website), should have an elite point guard more often than a total of 2 years in an 8 year period, and we shouldn't have to attract one via transfer.

I'm not a PJC hater by any stretch, he brings value, and I love him in his current role, but he's not an elite level point guard. It's quite frankly odd and frustrating that Arizona under Sean Miller has had trouble recruiting elite level point guards, namely due to our reputation for one, but also the fact our head man was a point guard himself. We got screwed out of one in this class (Jaylen Hands) due to the Compton Magic filtering kids to UCLA at a very efficient rate, so it's hard to be upset about that, but regardless it's still a bit frustrating. Maybe that changes in the 2018 class or maybe we recruit Trevon Duval, get him to commit, convince him to actually attend college, and somehow gets his transcripts in order. Either way it'd be great to reverse this trend soon.

Pretty much this. PJC can give us something, but the kid is a junior who started as a soph and this year and we're happy he played a decent road game. I think there's a place on our roster for him, but it gets glaring when we are bringing in boatloads of talent at other positions and PJC is probably better suited for the bench role he has right now.

Our backcourt depth is scary right now. Not only does CSM have options depending on the opponent and flow of the game but we will no longer be gassed in the second half.

PJC certainly has a big role on this team and he is still our best distributor. I think his defense and every now and then his rebounding gets overlooked. He man's up pretty well and has quick hands when opponents try and drive the lane. He also is very quick at going after loose balls on missed shots.

He is just another piece of the puzzle.

PJC is an efficient distributor. Couple things that get overlooked is his effectiveness in probing the zones that have killed us more times than not, and his probing in general that forces help/the defense to collapse. The latter does not always show up in the stat sheet, because his pass sometimes results in a second pass and the second passer gets credit for the assist on the made basket. Hes a huge asset off the bench. I wouldnt be too concerned about the road stuff, hes had several good road games now. Cant let a stinker against USC stand out, gotta see the big picture this season (so far). Hes going to have road struggles and so will others. Before this season, I would 100 percent agree

I think we all agree he's a great piece to have on an elite team.

Certainly we feel w a guy like Sean Miller, a great college pg in his own right, and the program we have, we should be getting elite level pgs on the reg, and that's where the frustration lies. PJC is certainly not elite, but he is a key cog to making our team elite.