Allonzo Trier

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:19 am

catgrad97 wrote: OK, great, he's back. Made the right decision.

But before we build a Drew Struzan-inspired shrine to a 19-year-old, maybe we ought to downgrade Allonzo Trier's status from "savior" to key piece of the puzzle or something more reasonable...fair?

After all, this is the same kid whose shot was pushed in, so to speak, by two Wichita State guards. That effort is conveniently forgotten in the unconditional fan love, I guess.

Cue the "I don't think we're going that overboard" push of the pendulum too far the other way. I think this board is getting a bit bipolar on potential and recruiting hype and not looking critically enough at a player's last performance.

You cant crap on a dude who had an off night (33%, 13% under his average) against the number 1 defensive team in the country on a night where the whole offense was complete crap. You can't crap down D'Angelo Russel's throat because of what our guys did to him in the tournament. You aren't going to have success against Wichita State throwing the ball to a star and sayin go get em tiger, and because of this team's frequent issues with ball movement and waiting too late in the shot clock to look for a good shot, that was how Trier got a significant number of his buckets the whole year. Wings have off nights even when they aren't playing the nation's or their league's top defense.

whatisee · Post by **whatisee** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:38 am

gumby wrote:If Miller is wiling to give him a second chance .... overlook his last game. ... insists on judging the total season .... then he must still be sweating.

We need a cool, calm, collected coach.

are you on Meth? serious question

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:51 am

I once worked with a meth head and she sweated like Sean Miller

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:56 am

Honestly, what's up with the sweating. Is it the weight loss?

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:59 am

I'd also say that, despite his poor numbers, Trier looked to be one of the only Cats out there trying to grind. He wasn't getting it...he was having an off day. But RA and Zeus looked passive, KaDeem looked scared shitless, and Gabe didn't have the space to operate his style of game because Wichita State was overplaying him to damn near midcourt.

Trier was, to me, far down the list of problems we had that night. And I watched him get to the rim against elite competition all year. He doesn't throw fits, scream at people, etc. Fine. And every team needs someone like that, which we didn't have this year. But kid got to the basket and finished and hit big shots all year.

baconus66 · Post by **baconus66** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:02 am

Obviously Trier returning is going to be very important offensively, but I think his biggest improvement and thus biggest influence on the success of the team is a big jump defensively.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:17 am

EVCat wrote:I'd also say that, despite his poor numbers, Trier looked to be one of the only Cats out there trying to grind. He wasn't getting it...he was having an off day. But RA and Zeus looked passive, KaDeem looked scared shitless, and Gabe didn't have the space to operate his style of game because Wichita State was overplaying him to damn near midcourt.

Trier was, to me, far down the list of problems we had that night. And I watched him get to the rim against elite competition all year. He doesn't throw fits, scream at people, etc. Fine. And every team needs someone like that, which we didn't have this year. But kid got to the basket and finished and hit big shots all year.

Agree w pretty much everything except for Zeus. In my opinion, he was the only guy who looked like he did not want to go home.

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:46 am

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:04 am

That is the funniest shit I've seen all day. Awesome...

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:20 am

baconus66 wrote:Obviously Trier returning is going to be very important offensively, but I think his biggest improvement and thus biggest influence on the success of the team is a big jump defensively.

I'm much more concerned with how he evolves offensively honestly. He needs to involve his teammates more (especially with the talent influx next season) and there are many little nuances he can improve on on that end as well.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:25 am

ChooChooCat wrote:
baconus66 wrote:Obviously Trier returning is going to be very important offensively, but I think his biggest improvement and thus biggest influence on the success of the team is a big jump defensively.
I'm much more concerned with how he evolves offensively honestly. He needs to involve his teammates more (especially with the talent influx next season) and there are many little nuances he can improve on on that end as well.

Nuances like . . . . don't just lower your shoulder and bull rush the SF, PF, and C and expect to not get your shit swatted? Nuances like that one?

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:29 am

The fact that Trier will be on the floor with other offensive weapons, will be huge. I mean, lets be honest...he was the only guy that could really create a shot with his bull rush. Gabe, for all his great shooting nights from the arc, was not one to create a shot. Zeus and Anderson were garbage guys. At times I guess Kadeem could drive in and get a bucket, but for the most part Trier was the guy to shut down if you wanted to stall Arizona on the offensive end.

Next year that changes.

Also, I can say that I saw some big time improvements on the defensive side. Hopefully the team makeup is good next year.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:31 am

ChooChooCat wrote:
baconus66 wrote:Obviously Trier returning is going to be very important offensively, but I think his biggest improvement and thus biggest influence on the success of the team is a big jump defensively.
I'm much more concerned with how he evolves offensively honestly. He needs to involve his teammates more (especially with the talent influx next season) and there are many little nuances he can improve on on that end as well.

I'm not hugely concerned. Zo already has a fairly mature game for a freshman going into a sophmore year. He needs to pick his spots driving better as Chi says, but that isn't a huge issue. Getting to the line is an area he's good in, and his aggressiveness in getting to the rim is a big reason why.

If the 3 ball is there for him all year, that plus maturation and we're good. He's probably taking York's mantle as our main perimeter scorer, and he was significantly more efficient in that role than GY last year already.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:38 am

whatisee wrote:
gumby wrote:If Miller is wiling to give him a second chance .... overlook his last game. ... insists on judging the total season .... then he must still be sweating.

We need a cool, calm, collected coach.
are you on Meth? serious question

You make that sound like a bad thing.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:40 am

gumby wrote:
whatisee wrote:
gumby wrote:If Miller is wiling to give him a second chance .... overlook his last game. ... insists on judging the total season .... then he must still be sweating.

We need a cool, calm, collected coach.
are you on Meth? serious question
You make that sound like a bad thing.

Kudos for supporting the local economy.

threenumberones · Post by **threenumberones** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:27 am

Well done Zo - unfinished business. I'd love nothing more than to hang your jersey my man. You've got a shot at it.

Now stop reading this board and get yer ass into the gym.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:36 pm

I really don't think Trier's bullrush was that big of a problem. Dude gets to the line, that's a big part of his game. He forced some stuff, yes, but that's going to happen when you have a player who is assertive with his dribble anyhow, and in addition, combine him with an offense that is frequently getting him the ball in non-advantageous spots and expecting him to make something happen. Think of how many times there was no offensive flow, no ball movement, players weren't moving, nobody else could create, and the ball got thrown out to Zo with five or six on the shot clock, and because of the preceding, his defender was already in position to defend him. Or how many times nobody could find a good shot and with 3 or 4 seconds left, Trier gets thrown the ball like "here!"

Speaking in a general sense and not to any individual poster here, I think Trier's offensive abilities are underappreciated. Trier has areas to improve obviously, but he is a complete scorer. I said this a while ago, maybe in here, but how many guys has Arizona had since 2000 who could do all of this or come close, freshman or even beyond: 1) Drive with several NBA-level moves/or elite athleticism, and have great body control 2) Finish with both hands at an elite (for college) level 3) Know how to draw contact, get to the line at a high rate and make roughly 80% of them 4) Pull up off the dribble a sink a midrange shot with good consistency 5) Drain 3's at an above 36% clip with a decent volume of attempts. Keep in mind, I had to stretch a few things on a few of these guys to get them to fit that criteria:

Derrick Williams as a sophomore, Chase Budinger, Gilbert Arenas as a sophomore, Bayless, Nick Johnson soph and junior seasons? Richard Jefferson if you forgive 1 or 2 criteria in each of his sophomore and junior seasons, Hassan Adams as a sophomore if you forgive the FTs, Wise as a junior, albeit being the third option behind two NBA first rounders. That's pretty damn good company, five guys who have had long NBA careers, two more guys who had a cup of coffee in the NBA, and Nick Wise who had the benefit of playing alongside Jordan Hill and Chase Budinger. Bayless is the only one to do that as a freshman. And not all those guys got to the line at the same rate as Trier.

dirtbags · Post by **dirtbags** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:05 pm

excellent take, @rgdeuce - so what are the areas you'd like to see 'zo prioritize in the offseason?

aside from the chris rounds treatment, i'm hoping allonzo will get better at creating for his teammates rather than feeling like he has to shoulder the offense and force something up. tough habit to break from his aau days and even this past season, though. would also love for him to improve on D, of course, but am unsure if it's a priority to him -- maybe with the new talent coming in next year.

mentally, i'm hoping 'zo will assert himself more next season, not necessarily with the ball, but vocally. we'll have a bit of a leadership void, and am unsure who will step up. PJC and dusan don't quite seem to have the personality for it. kadeem? ray? kobi? i don't know. would love for it to be 'zo, though.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:13 pm

dirtbags wrote:excellent take, @rgdeuce - so what are the areas you'd like to see 'zo prioritize in the offseason?

aside from the chris rounds treatment, i'm hoping allonzo will get better at creating for his teammates rather than feeling like he has to shoulder the offense and force something up. tough habit to break from his aau days and even this past season, though. would also love for him to improve on D, of course, but am unsure if it's a priority to him -- maybe with the new talent coming in next year.

mentally, i'm hoping 'zo will assert himself more next season, not necessarily with the ball, but vocally. we'll have a bit of a leadership void, and am unsure who will step up. PJC and dusan don't quite seem to have the personality for it. kadeem? ray? kobi? i don't know. would love for it to be 'zo, though.

I'm thinking the addition of weapons around him will help. This year, York was our only other perimeter scorer, and even there, he was strictly a shooter, not a creator going to the rim. PJC was basically limited to wide open threes. Allen flashed a bit but never got rolling, particularly post illness. Tollefsen/Pitts/Simon? Nope, nope, nope.

Next year, it depends on adjustment, but Alkins can score off the bounce and by shooting. So can Kobi, so can Ray. Frankly, all three of those guys are a more well rounded perimeter scorer than we had to complement Trier this year.

It's easier to pick your spots when you can afford to pick your spots. This year, Trier didn't have that luxury. Next year, he has a better chance of it.

Bear Down Vegas · Post by **Bear Down Vegas** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:44 pm

rgdeuce wrote:I really don't think Trier's bullrush was that big of a problem. Dude gets to the line, that's a big part of his game. He forced some stuff, yes, but that's going to happen when you have a player who is assertive with his dribble anyhow, and in addition, combine him with an offense that is frequently getting him the ball in non-advantageous spots and expecting him to make something happen. Think of how many times there was no offensive flow, no ball movement, players weren't moving, nobody else could create, and the ball got thrown out to Zo with five or six on the shot clock, and because of the preceding, his defender was already in position to defend him. Or how many times nobody could find a good shot and with 3 or 4 seconds left, Trier gets thrown the ball like "here!"

Speaking in a general sense and not to any individual poster here, I think Trier's offensive abilities are underappreciated. Trier has areas to improve obviously, but he is a complete scorer. I said this a while ago, maybe in here, but how many guys has Arizona had since 2000 who could do all of this or come close, freshman or even beyond: 1) Drive with several NBA-level moves/or elite athleticism, and have great body control 2) Finish with both hands at an elite (for college) level 3) Know how to draw contact, get to the line at a high rate and make roughly 80% of them 4) Pull up off the dribble a sink a midrange shot with good consistency 5) Drain 3's at an above 36% clip with a decent volume of attempts. Keep in mind, I had to stretch a few things on a few of these guys to get them to fit that criteria:

Derrick Williams as a sophomore, Chase Budinger, Gilbert Arenas as a sophomore, Bayless, Nick Johnson soph and junior seasons? Richard Jefferson if you forgive 1 or 2 criteria in each of his sophomore and junior seasons, Hassan Adams as a sophomore if you forgive the FTs, Wise as a junior, albeit being the third option behind two NBA first rounders. That's pretty damn good company, five guys who have had long NBA careers, two more guys who had a cup of coffee in the NBA, and Nick Wise who had the benefit of playing alongside Jordan Hill and Chase Budinger. Bayless is the only one to do that as a freshman. And not all those guys got to the line at the same rate as Trier.

Love when I read posts like this. Thanks for that.

billk78 · Post by **billk78** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:24 pm

Olsondogg wrote:The fact that Trier will be on the floor with other offensive weapons, will be huge. I mean, lets be honest...he was the only guy that could really create a shot with his bull rush. Gabe, for all his great shooting nights from the arc, was not one to create a shot. Zeus and Anderson were garbage guys. At times I guess Kadeem could drive in and get a bucket, but for the most part Trier was the guy to shut down if you wanted to stall Arizona on the offensive end.

Next year that changes.

Also, I can say that I saw some big time improvements on the defensive side. Hopefully the team makeup is good next year.

^^^
EXACTLY

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:48 pm

Rawle Alkins Excited for Allonzo Trier's Return to Arizona
By Adam Zagoria | Apr. 4 | 8:01PM

- Count Rawle Alkins among those excited for Allonzo Trier's return to Arizona for his sophomore season.

"It seems like it would be good," the Brooklyn native told SNY.tv on Monday. "Now teams won't know what to do with us. It's going to be very hard to double-team any one of us on the team, we'll be a matchup nightmare."

https://www.sny.tv/college-recruiting/n ... /170477392" target="_blank

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:04 pm

God I hope Alkins is eligible next year.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:05 pm

dirtbags wrote:excellent take, @rgdeuce - so what are the areas you'd like to see 'zo prioritize in the offseason?

aside from the chris rounds treatment, i'm hoping allonzo will get better at creating for his teammates rather than feeling like he has to shoulder the offense and force something up. tough habit to break from his aau days and even this past season, though. would also love for him to improve on D, of course, but am unsure if it's a priority to him -- maybe with the new talent coming in next year.

mentally, i'm hoping 'zo will assert himself more next season, not necessarily with the ball, but vocally. we'll have a bit of a leadership void, and am unsure who will step up. PJC and dusan don't quite seem to have the personality for it. kadeem? ray? kobi? i don't know. would love for it to be 'zo, though.

Shooting and strength, both go without saying and should be pretty much any player's goal. The two areas I would like to see a concerted effort at improving are defense and passing. Specifically with the passing, getting others involved/good shots off of his playmaking ability. Lot of people have been talking about that here since the season ended and I agree with it. He is going to be a handful for teams to defend and there are going to be plenty of opportunities to get teammates easy buckets when help comes.

thenewazcats · Post by **thenewazcats** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:30 pm

rgdeuce wrote:
EVCat wrote:I'd also say that, despite his poor numbers, Trier looked to be one of the only Cats out there trying to grind. He wasn't getting it...he was having an off day. But RA and Zeus looked passive, KaDeem looked scared shitless, and Gabe didn't have the space to operate his style of game because Wichita State was overplaying him to damn near midcourt.

Trier was, to me, far down the list of problems we had that night. And I watched him get to the rim against elite competition all year. He doesn't throw fits, scream at people, etc. Fine. And every team needs someone like that, which we didn't have this year. But kid got to the basket and finished and hit big shots all year.
Agree w pretty much everything except for Zeus. In my opinion, he was the only guy who looked like he did not want to go home.

Second that. Zeus was the only guy busting his ass. That was pretty clear. Shot wasn't falling but he went out playing hard.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:02 pm

I love Zeus. Someday, those that don't love him now, will look back and say, damn...we could use a Kaleb right now...

(and Someday will be sometime next season)

PennZona20 · Post by **PennZona20** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:42 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:God I hope Alkins is eligible next year.

Wait ...... What ?? Seriously?

I thought this was only a concern w Jj??

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:09 am

rgdeuce wrote:
dirtbags wrote:excellent take, @rgdeuce - so what are the areas you'd like to see 'zo prioritize in the offseason?

aside from the chris rounds treatment, i'm hoping allonzo will get better at creating for his teammates rather than feeling like he has to shoulder the offense and force something up. tough habit to break from his aau days and even this past season, though. would also love for him to improve on D, of course, but am unsure if it's a priority to him -- maybe with the new talent coming in next year.

mentally, i'm hoping 'zo will assert himself more next season, not necessarily with the ball, but vocally. we'll have a bit of a leadership void, and am unsure who will step up. PJC and dusan don't quite seem to have the personality for it. kadeem? ray? kobi? i don't know. would love for it to be 'zo, though.
Shooting and strength, both go without saying and should be pretty much any player's goal. The two areas I would like to see a concerted effort at improving are defense and passing. Specifically with the passing, getting others involved/good shots off of his playmaking ability. Lot of people have been talking about that here since the season ended and I agree with it. He is going to be a handful for teams to defend and there are going to be plenty of opportunities to get teammates easy buckets when help comes.

You're spot on in this thread, RG.

Bullrush: eh, okay fine. But Trier still had the highest offensive rating of any backcourt player on the team not related to an ex-UCLA coach.
Zeus: Zeus and PJC were the only two players worth watching in the WSU game. The others were shellshocked, Trier included.
Defensive Rating and Assist % are the two advanced stats that leap out at you if you look at Trier's season. In every other way he was our most effective wing player. Improve on defense and learn how to involve your teammates -- off a bullrush maybe? -- and Trier's going to be an outstanding sophomore.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 3:44 am

PennZona20 wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:God I hope Alkins is eligible next year.
Wait ...... What ?? Seriously?

I thought this was only a concern w Jj??

There is a question as to whether he finished his core requirements in the allotted timeframe. Everyone expects the NCAA to take a look. The UA compliance office doesn't seem to think it will be an issue.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:33 am

Chicat wrote:
gumby wrote:
whatisee wrote:
gumby wrote:If Miller is wiling to give him a second chance .... overlook his last game. ... insists on judging the total season .... then he must still be sweating.

We need a cool, calm, collected coach.
are you on Meth? serious question
You make that sound like a bad thing.
Kudos for supporting the local economy.

And they say manufacturing is dead.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:20 am

gumby wrote:
Chicat wrote:
gumby wrote:
whatisee wrote:
gumby wrote:If Miller is wiling to give him a second chance .... overlook his last game. ... insists on judging the total season .... then he must still be sweating.

We need a cool, calm, collected coach.
are you on Meth? serious question
You make that sound like a bad thing.
Kudos for supporting the local economy.
And they say manufacturing is dead.

G-g-g-g-g-umby

catgrad97 · Post by **catgrad97** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:46 am

Chicat wrote:
catgrad97 wrote:I think this board is getting a bit bipolar on potential and recruiting hype and not looking critically enough at a player's last performance.
Bibby, Simon, and Dickerson combined to shoot 6 for 36 in their last game of their college careers against Utah in '98. So screw that whole "National Championship" thing because we should look critically at a player's last performance?

Ha!

By the way, I think the term you're looking for is "shit pushed in". Which is an ugly way of describing what was a bad matchup against a good team. If you really think that Trier was prison raped by WSU, it is you who needs some perspective, not us.

You're a different person when you forget to file your taxes. "Prison raped"... Nobody puts words in somebody else's mouth with such flair as you, Chi.

For perspective, then, let's totally disregard a performance against what is, yes, still a mid-major in which everyone except Zeus, including Trier, seemed content to be outhustled, settle for jumpers and just cruise to the end of the season.

Disregarding that, Trier's 11-of-21 shooting combined against Colorado and Oregon in the conference tournament semifinals--thank you for hijacking that, Pac-12 refs--was actually the spike in the midst of otherwise Wichita-like shooting nights, post-injury.

If you really want to chalk up all of Trier's 4 for 13 to the defense of the Shockers, even though I seem to recall him missing multiple open baseline Js in both halves, unharrassed, that's your privilege.

But Trier also shot a combined 4 of 18 in the home games against Cal and Stanford--the only games after the injury, with the exception of his first limited performance at Washington, in which he did not have double-digit attempts in a game.

4 of 13 and 5 for 11 against those stellar UCLA and ASU defenses. 4 of 10 against USC. Even the 23 points at Utah were out of 17 shots. Hell, give any of our guards 17 shots in a game and they could've hit for at least 20.

For further perspective: Even before the injury, the kid had a back-to-back stretch in which he shot a combined 9 of 22 in 53 minutes against NAU and UNLV.

1 of 10 against Pacific? 3 of 9 against Northwestern State? How would you characterize those defenses?

rgdeuce wrote:You can't crap down D'Angelo Russel's throat because of what our guys did to him in the tournament.

Where was I crapping on Allonzo Trier? The kid was our star guard recruit last year: Should we not have higher expectations?

rgdeuce wrote: You aren't going to have success against Wichita State throwing the ball to a star and sayin go get em tiger, and because of this team's frequent issues with ball movement and waiting too late in the shot clock to look for a good shot, that was how Trier got a significant number of his buckets the whole year.

This is a very good point, and something the team can't afford to repeat next season. Create offense, not settle for jumpers and isos. That was not just a Wichita State issue with this team.

But we recruit the best to play their best, against the best. Bringing in five-star guards and not being critical of their performance against an 11 seed from the Missouri Valley Conference, no matter the team's defensive rating, is too pat for me to accept, I'm sorry.

rgdeuce wrote:Wings have off nights even when they aren't playing the nation's or their league's top defense.

True, but before you write off those other examples I cited, post-injury, to off shooting by a freshman, keep in mind he never missed more than two free-throw attempts in any of those games.

It wasn't his shooting that was off--it was the shot selection, including the "bull rush," which is a nice way of glossing over poor judgment on offense.

That has to change, especially if he's going to be the leader of next year's team. I'll buy that better teammates and more flow to the offense might help get him there, but he's not quite "elite" yet, friends and neighbors.

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:21 am

Who will be the stars of college basketball in 2016-2017?

17. Allonzo Trier, Arizona Wildcats
Although he missed seven games in January and February after suffering a broken hand, Trier posted season stats good enough to rank a few spots higher on this list. Then again, the freshman compiled those numbers while playing alongside Ryan Anderson and Gabe York. Both teammates will be gone next season, and it's reasonable to expect the 6-foot-4 wing's efficiency to dip as his workload increases. On the other hand, a healthy Ray Smith and new arrivals such as Rawle Alkins and Kobi Simmons (and perhaps even Josh Jackson -- see No. 10) could give Trier enough support to meet or exceed expectations set in 2015-16. Sean Miller certainly hopes so.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketb ... all-season" target="_blank

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:23 am

while playing alongside Ryan Anderson and Gabe York.

What about Tarczewski who was much more valuable than York?

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:40 pm

catgrad97 wrote:"Prison raped"... Nobody puts words in somebody else's mouth with such flair as you, Chi.

In the movie "Training Day" Ethan Hawke is asked by a gang member if he's ever had his shit pushed in. He was referring to being raped in prison.

mrqsjhnsnsux · Post by **mrqsjhnsnsux** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:18 pm

Merkin wrote:while playing alongside Ryan Anderson and Gabe York.

What about Tarczewski who was much more valuable than York?

Maybe those two were mentioned because they were ahead of Trier in the PPG category and Zues was not?

: Untitled.png (20.69 KiB) Viewed 2229 times

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:47 pm

True, but no serious UA fan would not leave out Zeus in that conversation.

No one is going to be missed more next year. He didn't wow with a lot of offensive stats, but he was the only player on the team that made other players better. He was always in the right place at the right time. He rotated well on defense, and set great picks.

He also didn't cost the Cats 3 ball games trying to play hero ball end of game and ending up getting the ball knocked away.

Zeus knew his limitations.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 3:20 pm

He also took the brunt of Miller's frustration with the team because, quite frankly, he was the only one who could...

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:48 pm

Merkin wrote:True, but no serious UA fan would not leave out Zeus in that conversation.

No one is going to be missed more next year. He didn't wow with a lot of offensive stats, but he was the only player on the team that made other players better. He was always in the right place at the right time. He rotated well on defense, and set great picks.

He also didn't cost the Cats 3 ball games trying to play hero ball end of game and ending up getting the ball knocked away.

Zeus knew his limitations.

Actually, for a guy whose weakest skill was his offense, he had over a 22 PER during Pac play this year. He was never a big scorer, but became very efficient.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:31 pm

Catgrad, two things: 1) you're cherry picking games on a perimeter player, 2) completely disregarding the fact Trier was a freshman on a team that had plenty of holes offensively. I can sit here and cherry pick NBA all star guards/wings if you want and make them look bad. You complain about his field goal attempts, but he was more efficient than both Dorsey and Brown. You cited games where he took too many shots: his two highest attempts in a game 19 (10-19) and 17 (8-17). Both of those games he was shooting over 40% from 3 too. In what world does your best scorer, a perimeter player shoot 50% from the floor and 40 plus from 3 and you get mad at 17 and 19 shots? Those were both games he was needed to carry us too, at Utah and at USC, one of which went into multiple overtimes. I just dont understand what you want out of a freshman. Hell, im more than happy getting Trier's numbers out of a sophomore 5 star.

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:46 pm

Tarczewski will be a don't appreciate what ya got until it's gone.

I remember hating Shakur toward the end. Couldn't make an entry pass to Ivan, couldn't hit an in-rhythm pull up jumper, and had a sub-2/1 A/TO in final dozen games.

And I'd give almost anything to have someone like him again. Frustrations and all.

And Tarc's frustrations were never about effort. Just wishing he had better hands/touch around the basket.

He will be missed.

But Comanche has already shown more upside to help replace him than any PG before TJ ever did I. Replacing Shakur.

But Tarc is one of those guys whose mere presence impacts the game, even more than the stats indicate.

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:50 am

catgrad97 wrote:For perspective, then, let's totally disregard a performance against what is, yes, still a mid-major in which everyone except Zeus, including Trier, seemed content to be outhustled, settle for jumpers and just cruise to the end of the season.

Disregarding that, Trier's 11-of-21 shooting combined against Colorado and Oregon in the conference tournament semifinals--thank you for hijacking that, Pac-12 refs--was actually the spike in the midst of otherwise Wichita-like shooting nights, post-injury.

If you really want to chalk up all of Trier's 4 for 13 to the defense of the Shockers, even though I seem to recall him missing multiple open baseline Js in both halves, unharrassed, that's your privilege.

But Trier also shot a combined 4 of 18 in the home games against Cal and Stanford--the only games after the injury, with the exception of his first limited performance at Washington, in which he did not have double-digit attempts in a game.

4 of 13 and 5 for 11 against those stellar UCLA and ASU defenses. 4 of 10 against USC. Even the 23 points at Utah were out of 17 shots. Hell, give any of our guards 17 shots in a game and they could've hit for at least 20.

For further perspective: Even before the injury, the kid had a back-to-back stretch in which he shot a combined 9 of 22 in 53 minutes against NAU and UNLV.

1 of 10 against Pacific? 3 of 9 against Northwestern State? How would you characterize those defenses?

Why are you cherry picking statistics from individual games, CG97? We have an entire season worth of statistics accumulated for us to use. I posted these in earlier in the thread in response to the silly negative comparisons of Trier and Dorsey:

And just to get past the emotion in comparing Trier and Dorsey, here are the advanced stats comparing the two:

PER (18.7 - 17.8), TS% (.603 - .575), eFG% (.542 - .537), WS/40 (.170 - .148), ORtg (116.7 - 115.3), DRtg (101.3 - 103.9)

You can compare Trier's stats to any other backcourt player from last year. Honestly, I urge you to do so with this link:

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/sch ... /2016.html

If you take the time to do so, you'll realize that Trier was far and away our best backcourt player over the season. Or you could ignore that, continue to cherry pick individual performances to support your position, and look ignorant and uninformed. Your choice.

We all know that Trier has some areas to improve. Scoring efficiently is not one of them.

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:19 am

Allonzo Trier talks about his decision to return for his sophomore season
Apr 6, 2016, 6:04p

"For me, the type of person I am, I’m an all-in type of person," he said. "If I decide to do something, I’m going to put my all into it, and I didn’t want to be one foot out the door, and one foot in with this university and this basketball team. I understood that the process to being great for this program starts now, and I didn’t want to be halfway with this team. I wanted to show that I’m back and be dedicated to this team and give my all to this team, and start working with these guys and lock arms, and really start working towards next year to have a big year."

"I’m excited to come back and have a little bit of a different role, and for myself to do some things that I didn’t do my freshman year," Trier said. "To be a big part of this team, and be one of the leaders of this team, and hopefully take this team to another level that we weren’t able to reach last year."

"If I didn’t want to win and come back to be a leader and try to bring this team to a Final Four," Trier said. "I wouldn’t be here."

http://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketball ... ore-season" target="_blank

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:30 am

Oh man, we're gonna be good next year. Really good.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:04 pm

In Buddy Hield's final game, he scored nine points. In a game where his teammates needed him most. Six Villanova players outscored him. Hield and his teammates allowed 71.4 percent shooting. They lost by 44.

Buddy Hield, give back your awards.

dirtbags · Post by **dirtbags** » Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:20 pm

HiCat wrote:Allonzo Trier talks about his decision to return for his sophomore season
Apr 6, 2016, 6:04p

"For me, the type of person I am, I’m an all-in type of person," he said. "If I decide to do something, I’m going to put my all into it, and I didn’t want to be one foot out the door, and one foot in with this university and this basketball team. I understood that the process to being great for this program starts now, and I didn’t want to be halfway with this team. I wanted to show that I’m back and be dedicated to this team and give my all to this team, and start working with these guys and lock arms, and really start working towards next year to have a big year."

"I’m excited to come back and have a little bit of a different role, and for myself to do some things that I didn’t do my freshman year," Trier said. "To be a big part of this team, and be one of the leaders of this team, and hopefully take this team to another level that we weren’t able to reach last year."

"If I didn’t want to win and come back to be a leader and try to bring this team to a Final Four," Trier said. "I wouldn’t be here."

http://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketball ... ore-season" target="_blank

nice soundbytes from 'zo, and a good first step towards being next year's floor leader.

i'm waiting for the day that a UofA player just says outright, "okay, i'm staying another year because i'm having way too much fun being a college student, the women here are gorgeous, and i love Arizona Basketball" and drops mic. was kinda hoping stanley was going be the one to do it last year, haha.

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Fri Apr 08, 2016 5:55 am

lol, Dirtbags. That person would be my hero for life.

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:29 pm

my fingers are crossed, are yours?

Zero · Post by **Zero** » Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:32 pm

Yes. Big time.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:37 pm

Why would they need to be?

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