Bear Down Wildcats

RiseAndFire wrote:aggressive pack line m2m defense for 40 minutes isn't going to work with 7 or even 8'players , unless they don't need to play offense. another reason why having just one flavor of defense is so foolish.

this year will be about watching kobi, Rawls,lauri, and Pinder - pretty athletic bunch. chances of making it to Phoenix are slim as usual

RiseAndFire wrote:aggressive pack line m2m defense for 40 minutes isn't going to work with 7 or even 8'players , unless they don't need to play offense. another reason why having just one flavor of defense is so foolish.

this year will be about watching kobi, Rawls,lauri, and Pinder - pretty athletic bunch. chances of making it to Phoenix are slim as usual

Nice to see Cordero's basketball cousin is back. Ugh

71 points against 1-2 No.Colorado team starting 3Soph/2Frosh with nobody over 6'8 who lost by 37 to butler

they played a simple zone defense which of course miller and the team have little if any experience practicing or playing against because......?

I've seen enough t o know how this will go
3rd place P12 finish
24-8 record
5 seed
2nd round exit

if I'm way off just record your guess and we'll see who gets it right. I'm curious if anyone really thinks Miller can make the FF this year

Who hurt you sweetie?

RiseAndFire wrote:71 points against 1-2 No.Colorado team starting 3Soph/2Frosh with nobody over 6'8 who lost by 37 to butler

they played a simple zone defense which of course miller and the team have little if any experience practicing or playing against because......?

I've seen enough t o know how this will go
3rd place P12 finish
24-8 record
5 seed
2nd round exit

if I'm way off just record your guess and we'll see who gets it right. I'm curious if anyone really thinks Miller can make the FF this year

With Trier, yes. Long way to go defensively, but ill bet on Miller there. 2-3 seed this year and we have an elite 1, 2, punch.

RiseAndFire wrote:71 points against 1-2 No.Colorado team starting 3Soph/2Frosh with nobody over 6'8 who lost by 37 to butler

they played a simple zone defense which of course miller and the team have little if any experience practicing or playing against because......?

I've seen enough t o know how this will go
3rd place P12 finish
24-8 record
5 seed
2nd round exit

if I'm way off just record your guess and we'll see who gets it right. I'm curious if anyone really thinks Miller can make the FF this year

You know how this will go? A 2nd round loss? How many times has Miller lost in the 2nd round at Arizona?

Please stop coming around and interrupting our intelligent discussion with your drivel.

RiseAndFire wrote:71 points against 1-2 No.Colorado team starting 3Soph/2Frosh with nobody over 6'8 who lost by 37 to butler

they played a simple zone defense which of course miller and the team have little if any experience practicing or playing against because......?

I've seen enough t o know how this will go
3rd place P12 finish
24-8 record
5 seed
2nd round exit

if I'm way off just record your guess and we'll see who gets it right. I'm curious if anyone really thinks Miller can make the FF this year

I think Miller can maoe the FF this year.

TucsonClip wrote:

RiseAndFire wrote:71 points against 1-2 No.Colorado team starting 3Soph/2Frosh with nobody over 6'8 who lost by 37 to butler

they played a simple zone defense which of course miller and the team have little if any experience practicing or playing against because......?

I've seen enough t o know how this will go
3rd place P12 finish
24-8 record
5 seed
2nd round exit

if I'm way off just record your guess and we'll see who gets it right. I'm curious if anyone really thinks Miller can make the FF this year

With Trier, yes. Long way to go defensively, but ill bet on Miller there. 2-3 seed this year and we have an elite 1, 2, punch.

Nice to see RiseAndFail show his face. Clips post, however, is accurate as usual. Good luck worrying about Trier and Lauri come March. Defense does have a long way to go, but given Miller's track record, a team filled with capable defenders, and looking at the game-to-game improvements on individual and team levels, I'm not too worried. In the interim, we still haven't had a team shoot higher than 43% against us and some of the "cream puffs" have knocked down some ridiculous shots that pad those shooting numbers even more.

Is it too early to look at Kenpom? 19th in Adjusted O and 20th in Adjusted D.

"I've seen enough of this to know..." but yet I'm gonna continue to watch and go to a message board to post my "knowledge".

Do us a favor, mmm kay? Since you know how it's gonna go, bow out now. Go watch Dr. Phil.

Projecting that dudes can't play pack line defense for 35 minutes a game is ridiculous. They're athletes. They'll get used to it.

And that's really all that it is - getting used to it. I remember learning team defense and the first couple of months were brutal. Always forgetting the second rotation. Always wanting to take a breather on D. Everything moving faster than I could think.

But as time went on my conditioning improved and my understanding of the system improved. The first rotation was subconscious. The second rotation I could see before I needed to move.

That's where the young guys are going. On that same journey.

Team defense relies on everyone being on a string, so that when one guy moves the rest rotate or shift to hold the line/box. We look bad on defense because guys are failing to perform those rotations, because they're not yet mentally and physically conditioned. They'll get there.

Good team D also conserves energy in the long run too. Wasnt just the conditioning.

Hey, Riseandfire's back!

Welcome... The rational discussion has gotten overwhelmingly boring in enfuego's unusual absence.

rgdeuce wrote:Good team D also conserves energy in the long run too. Wasnt just the conditioning.

Plus, zone is not an excuse to be lazy. Any legit coach would tell you that you expend as much effort in zone as man.

If you've never played past elementary school, zone is the D you rest in. At higher levels, you don't take possessions off.

Plus, a lot of off ball concepts in the pack line are similar to zone. The same idea of using help D to constrict lanes to the basket is a huge one. Doing that and recovering in man isn't much different from zone.

Does anyone else here HATE Pac 12 Network incompetence?

How is it they can post the score to a UCLA game that finishes after our game but not post our score on the same Pac 12 scores page?

Fuggin hate Larry Scott and the whole Pac 12 "Dis-UA" network...

every year its the same crap they will post some stupid thing about us or get it wrong, like "UA wins in Tempe again in a home crowd"

CatFanOneMil wrote:Does anyone else here HATE Pac 12 Network incompetence?

How is it they can post the score to a UCLA game that finishes after our game but not post our score on the same Pac 12 scores page?

Fuggin hate Larry Scott and the whole Pac 12 "Dis-UA" network...

every year its the same crap they will post some stupid thing about us or get it wrong, like "UA wins in Tempe again in a home crowd"

Lavin called Book 'Pooh'?

Puerco wrote:Lavin called Book 'Pooh'?

yeah, that was weird.

dirtbags wrote:

Puerco wrote:Lavin called Book 'Pooh'?

yeah, that was weird.

Lavin is like listening to paint dry...I think he tries to be objective but he doesn't sober up enough to do it...he's probably one of those guys who goes to sleep as he drinks...he certainly has that effect on me.

So far, I'm surprised with our team. We're actually a bit better than I thought, as PJC and Comanche have really improved, and our freshman have been quite good. PJC is at least now functional on both ends of the floor and not an outright liability.

But what I see most is that this is pretty much an all new team playing together, and it's gonna take some time just to start playing better as a cohesive team. That happens to every team with a lot of new players, college or pro. Remember when Lebron went to Miami, with Wade and Bosh, they struggled mightily the first 10 games before they got it sorted out, it just takes some time. Our switch and help D can be a lot better, and our offense at times goes in the tank, but overall been enjoying this group of Cats.

I was thinking all offseason after we lost out on JJ and Ferguson couldn't play that we were another first round exit team this year; but seeing that Allen doesn't need to be our point guard in the tournament (hopefully), I think we have as good of shot now as anybody to make a deep run. Markannen is a beast, and it's nice to have a little 3 point shooting out of Alkins and Simmons.

Gotta get this off my chest before Butler game.

I thought we'd never get off 51 last night! Up 51-43, and we just couldn't score. Broncos couldn't either, only closed it to 51-46. But the thing is, we had three possessions coming out of timeouts, when you're most likely to score. Didn't score on any of them.

Then Ristic missed two free throws. Then Kobi missed two free throws ... and made the third. Yes! 52!

Geez!

OK, all better now. Go Cats! Beat the Geezers of Butler (three seniors, two juniors).

Played better against Butler. Like how we elevated our game against a better team. Shows a higher ceiling.

College basketball rankings: Arizona upset shakes up latest Top 25 (and one)

21
Arizona The Wildcats only made three 3-pointers in Friday's loss to Butler. Kobi Simmons was 0-of-3 from beyond the arc and is now averaging 12.7 points in 28.2 minutes per game. 9 5-1

http://www.cbssports.com/college-basket ... 5-and-one/" target="_blank


Should be interesting against the Zags.
10
Gonzaga

HiCat wrote:Arizona upset

What upset? Butler was favored.

Cats will get a day more rest than Gonazaga, and UA owns the Zags.

Preseason poll is the only reason Butler was an upset. Assumed Trier/Smith. Anyone think Michigan State was ever No. 12?

First off, the Butler loss is not a bad loss and considering circumstances Arizona was actually fortunate to have a chance to win at the end.

Second, the MSU win will look better and better as year progresses.

Olsondogg wrote:First off, the Butler loss is not a bad loss and considering circumstances Arizona was actually fortunate to have a chance to win at the end.

Second, the MSU win will look better and better as year progresses.

Butler hurts because were up 4 with less than 2 minutes to play. That's a tough loss to anyone. I agree that Butler is a good team that won't embarass us later.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:First off, the Butler loss is not a bad loss and considering circumstances Arizona was actually fortunate to have a chance to win at the end.

Second, the MSU win will look better and better as year progresses.

Butler hurts because were up 4 with less than 2 minutes to play. That's a tough loss to anyone. I agree that Butler is a good team that won't embarass us later.

I'm still trying to figure out the foul calls that pretty much locked that game up.

true, @odogg. msu will be a force by tourney time. fucking ridiculous that izzo, of all people, had to apologize for their tough preseason scheduling and injuries. dude has like 7 FFs in 16 years. he doesn't have to explain shit.

It's November and I can't stand when people freak out, good or bad, in November.

I mean yeah we haven't lost this early in a season in forever, but good lord consider circumstances and timing. This isn't losing to whatever the fuck Indiana lost to this past week.

Olsondogg wrote:It's November and I can't stand when people freak out, good or bad, in November.

I mean yeah we haven't lost this early in a season in forever, but good lord consider circumstances and timing. This isn't losing to whatever the fuck Indiana lost to this past week.

It is kind of weird not to be undefeated in November. Of course being the last team to lose a regular season game hasn't gotten us to a Final Four recently...

Chicat wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:It's November and I can't stand when people freak out, good or bad, in November.

I mean yeah we haven't lost this early in a season in forever, but good lord consider circumstances and timing. This isn't losing to whatever the fuck Indiana lost to this past week.

It is kind of weird not to be undefeated in November. Of course being the last team to lose a regular season game hasn't gotten us to a Final Four recently...

I am patiently holding judgement on this team until I see the actual full team play on the court at once...I don't know when it will happen, but hopefully it should.

I just don't see how people consider Butler to be a concern. No Trier, and Lauri with 5 foul calls (really only one foul...maybe). Furthermore having this years team be young and raw and full of talent speaks alot more to me. This isn't a team with 21-23 year old seniors...I just think that the team will be much different looking and much better the more it plays together. I'll take some regular season losses to be prepared for March wins.

Olsondogg wrote:

Chicat wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:It's November and I can't stand when people freak out, good or bad, in November.

I mean yeah we haven't lost this early in a season in forever, but good lord consider circumstances and timing. This isn't losing to whatever the fuck Indiana lost to this past week.

It is kind of weird not to be undefeated in November. Of course being the last team to lose a regular season game hasn't gotten us to a Final Four recently...

I am patiently holding judgement on this team until I see the actual full team play on the court at once...I don't know when it will happen, but hopefully it should.

I just don't see how people consider Butler to be a concern. No Trier, and Lauri with 5 foul calls (really only one foul...maybe). Furthermore having this years team be young and raw and full of talent speaks alot more to me. This isn't a team with 21-23 year old seniors...I just think that the team will be much different looking and much better the more it plays together. I'll take some regular season losses to be prepared for March wins.

^^^This^^^ It is still November...and with all the adjustments that HAVE been made and all the ones YET to be made it will be a season in flux until Feb...and then some.

College basketball rankings: Arizona falls to 16th in AP, 15th in Coaches polls

by Jason Bartel Nov 28, 2016, 12:45pm PST

http://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketball ... a-bulldogs" target="_blank

Our fan base bitches when our pre-conference schedule is not tough enough

Our fan base bitches when we lose a pre-conference game.

There are going to be parts of our fan base that will bitch no matter what. And this is true of every fan base. Ultimately, who cares? They are just people talking.

Some will breathlessly talk about how all games affect seeding and what if this loss is the difference between a 2 and a 3? What if we get shipped out of the west because of this November stumble? Why cannot we see how big this is? If you don't know how HUGE this is, you don't understand how this works.

Of course, a loss against a quality mid-major might just be the thing that gets a freshman who is used to winning and thought his shit didn't stink to pay attention, sparking a 15 game winning streak where there wouldn't have been one.

Losses are never fun. But c'mon...a loss in November to a team that was a point spread favorite when our best player fouled out early as part of the parade of "points of emphasis" fouls that happen EVERY FUCKING PRE-CONFERENCE SCHEDULE and go away by tournament time should be the cause of the mildest concern.

We used to play the most insane pre-conference schedules ever seen. Michigan State 2016-style pre-conference schedules. And we lost games (unless they were in New York). And people understood the process. Sean Miller came in with a bit different philosophy, especially early on. As the program has grown, he has taken on greater difficulty, though he has not been willing to give away damaging and, quite frankly, embarrassing 2-for-1 series to get Duke or those kinds of teams into Tucson. So he plays one-offs at neutral sites, and has gotten Arizona into the major pre-conference tournament mix (Maui 2018 is on my radar). But then, the fan base (parts) melt down over a loss to a very good mid-major with more recent chances to win a national title than us when our young and incomplete roster had some foul issues late. Is our fan base ready to return to playing a Duke at home and maybe losing (except we don't lose to Duke at home, so change that to UConn)?

In the internet/message board era, it really doesn't matter what you do, there is going to be some part of the fanbase who will say it was done better in the old days, or you are doing it wrong, etc, etc. Lute Olson, the God he was, never had to deal with the one-and-done environment. He barely had to deal with 2 and done...barely. Keeping an elite roster in today's era from year to year requires tireless recruiting. Lute Olson also never pulled classes like the ones we have had. If he had, we probably would have won a few titles, because Lute definitely made lower top 100 players into NBA players. But you have very little time to develop the super talented...it is more like a Rubik's cube than a building project...figure out how the pieces fit now and assemble quickly. There is no building a foundation with top players. The game is totally different. And we have been rather successful considering where we were for a brief moment.

November is November. And while it does inform our seeding in March, getting better and playing better and finishing better is far more important overall. So we lost a tight game against a good RPI opponent. We'll have a couple more opportunities with Gonzaga and Texas A&M and conference. And more importantly...what is on film vs Butler that our coaches can use to improve the team?

Butler ALMOST beat Oregon last night...they are supposed to be the best team in the Pac (although that view is slipping as we speak)...losing to Butler is actually a pretty good loss (if such a thing exists anymore) in my opinion because it IS early in the season...playing against the zone that much was a text book learning game...

As far as Ap/coaches polls...meh...polls said Hillary would win by a landslide we see how that worked out.

CatFanOneMil wrote:Butler ALMOST beat Oregon last night...they are supposed to be the best team in the Pac (although that view is slipping as we speak)...losing to Butler is actually a pretty good loss (if such a thing exists anymore) in my opinion because it IS early in the season...playing against the zone that much was a text book learning game...

As far as Ap/coaches polls...meh...polls said Hillary would win by a landslide we see how that worked out.

Butler beat Utah last night...

CatFanOneMil wrote:Butler ALMOST beat Oregon last night...they are supposed to be the best team in the Pac (although that view is slipping as we speak)...losing to Butler is actually a pretty good loss (if such a thing exists anymore) in my opinion because it IS early in the season...playing against the zone that much was a text book learning game...

As far as Ap/coaches polls...meh...polls said Hillary would win by a landslide we see how that worked out.

When you account for all the people voting in the AP poll without being eligible, who even knows?

TucsonClip wrote:

CatFanOneMil wrote:Butler ALMOST beat Oregon last night...they are supposed to be the best team in the Pac (although that view is slipping as we speak)...losing to Butler is actually a pretty good loss (if such a thing exists anymore) in my opinion because it IS early in the season...playing against the zone that much was a text book learning game...

As far as Ap/coaches polls...meh...polls said Hillary would win by a landslide we see how that worked out.

Butler beat Utah last night...

In Utah

Double-digit lead most of the way. Just better.

CatFanOneMil wrote:Butler ALMOST beat Oregon last night...they are supposed to be the best team in the Pac (although that view is slipping as we speak)...losing to Butler is actually a pretty good loss (if such a thing exists anymore) in my opinion because it IS early in the season...playing against the zone that much was a text book learning game...

As far as Ap/coaches polls...meh...polls said Hillary would win by a landslide we see how that worked out.

Huh? You mean Boise St?

EVCat wrote:Our fan base bitches when our pre-conference schedule is not tough enough

Our fan base bitches when we lose a pre-conference game.

There are going to be parts of our fan base that will bitch no matter what. And this is true of every fan base. Ultimately, who cares? They are just people talking.

I would really agree with this take. Really. If I could find an example of our fan base bitching because we lost to Butler. But since I can't, I'm left wondering what the hell some of you guys are ranting about.

I mean, unless you're just talking about that one particular guy who's about as manic-depressive an example as you could find on the internet...? But he's hardly our 'fan base'.

Well he is kind of right. Not the Butler game itself, but there have been instances where people have complained about losses that "shouldn't have happened." If not that, it's something to the effect of "the sky is falling" and "this team is horrible, they are a bubble team, they are at best a team who will get to the round of 32" when they have a close game against someone we are expected to cream. Last year's Santa Clara game jumps out in my mind, but there are plenty of others. Nothing wrong with being critical of a performance as long as it is focused on a poor performance in that particular game. Or if it's a trend, then you can talk about it without being knee jerk, but then you also have to consider other factors too (eg it's early in the season, we are young, we will get better)

But a lot of people (mostly away from here, I think he was speaking about Wildcat fans in general) do want a tougher schedule but cannot be understanding of the fact that we are always going to get the other team's best game, sometimes you have off nights, sometimes the officials suck, and sometimes it is just not your night. I mean, that's sports. Some people either havent been exposed to higher level competition where this becomes more evident, or they have and forgot, or they have not been able to fully grasp through watching and reading that shit happens sometimes. You have people who want the world but will not see "big picture" if they get it. In most cases in the early nonconference season, to me, the 150th best team in the nation who is filled with upperclassmen is much scarier than the 75th best team who is very young. Michigan State was a nice pull for us early because like us, they have tons of talent but they are young and inexperienced. If we played a similarly ranked team in that game who were more experienced, more times than not we probably lose that game. Every game, win or loss, should be looked at with context, but many do not do that.

rgdeuce wrote:Well he is kind of right. Not the Butler game itself, but there have been instances where people have complained about losses that "shouldn't have happened." If not that, it's something to the effect of "the sky is falling" and "this team is horrible, they are a bubble team, they are at best a team who will get to the round of 32" when they have a close game against someone we are expected to cream. Last year's Santa Clara game jumps out in my mind, but there are plenty of others. Nothing wrong with being critical of a performance as long as it is focused on a poor performance in that particular game. Or if it's a trend, then you can talk about it without being knee jerk, but then you also have to consider other factors too (eg it's early in the season, we are young, we will get better)

I think if you were to really search your memory you'd be hard pressed to find more than a handful of posters who have expressed those sentiments. And I'd bet it was the same posters every time. Including one in particular.....

Just because literally one or two people are talking about the sky falling doesn't make it a disturbing trend amongst Arizona fans. All fanbases have their Eeyores, and ours is no exception.

To try to leave Butler behind, here's my thinking. We lost because:

1. Butler played well, and is a solid team overall.
2. The refs gave us a really tough hand to play.
3. Crucial mistakes.
4. Trier's continued/permanent absence really strips our major scorer from us. When Lauri gets in foul trouble, we have ride or die with Kobi and Rawle, and we saw both sides of the coin from them vs Butler.

We play TX Southern next and need to take steps forward. The sky is not falling, but we need to be building on success and failure. Any time you're that close to a W...well, I don't believe in moral victories.

New player.

Merkin wrote:New player.

If reading between the lines, AT not coming back anytime soon.

Merkin wrote:New player.

6'3 170

PJC is 5'11 170

Beachcat97 wrote:

Merkin wrote:New player.

If reading between the lines, AT not coming back anytime soon.

Filling an open walk on spot has nothing to do with the other situation. You went to U of A right? You should be better than that.

PHXCATS wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:

Merkin wrote:New player.

If reading between the lines, AT not coming back anytime soon.

Filling an open walk on spot has nothing to do with the other situation. You went to U of A right? You should be better than that.

We don't have enough guys to adequately practice. Trier has been practicing this whole time. Ergo, RC97 needs new reading between the lines glasses.

Beachcat97 wrote:

Merkin wrote:New player.

If reading between the lines, AT not coming back anytime soon.

If the logic is: we're missing Allonzo, let's add a walk on, we have much deeper problems than Zo's absence.

Chicat wrote:We don't have enough guys to adequately practice. Trier has been practicing this whole time. Ergo, RC97 needs new reading between the lines glasses.

Ergo...indeed. Non sequitur. Infirmus animus.

We'll see how this plays out.