Re: let's talk '19
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:26 pm
Drew Timme will officially visit us in the next week or so. We're in his final 5, but we're probably sitting 4th at best at the moment.
So, a pay cut vs college to play in Fort Wayne.ChooChooCat wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:
How much is a good amount of kids? I mean there's a few academic casualty kids and Kobi Simmonses out there that this is great for. Most kids as a business decision though will continue to choose the NCAA and it wont even be close.Newportcat wrote:Disagree
I think a good amount of kids will choose this path as they can simply focus on basketball and not have to go to School
College Basketball exposure is not what it once was especially if that said player is only looking at being in school 1 year.
Step in the right direction in my opinion though from the standpoint if a kid needs money and does not want to go to College, has a better avenue now
Doesnt matter if they're exposed versus more mature players who are getting paid 30k and fighting to make it to the league. That 125k for one season is fools gold.Beachcat97 wrote:125K at 18 is a sh*t-ton of money, especially for kids who grew up poor.
It certainly sounds like that's what agents are saying this afternoon.ChooChooCat wrote:Doesnt matter if they're exposed versus more mature players who are getting paid 30k and fighting to make it to the league. That 125k for one season is fools gold.Beachcat97 wrote:125K at 18 is a sh*t-ton of money, especially for kids who grew up poor.
Ouch! Duke is now going to have to raise their recruiting dollars in order to keep players from going to the NBA.ChooChooCat wrote:
it was called the development league (now gatorade league lol) but it is barely basketball. Kadeem Allen was freaking dropping 30 a couple of times. Almost everything about it es no bueno. Well now except for the money.Newportcat wrote:Disagree
I think a good amount of kids will choose this path as they can simply focus on basketball and not have to go to School
I could see 5-10 players doing this. To me that's a good amount.ChooChooCat wrote:How much is a good amount of kids? I mean there's a few academic casualty kids and Kobi Simmonses out there that this is great for. Most kids as a business decision though will continue to choose the NCAA and it wont even be close.Newportcat wrote:Disagree
I think a good amount of kids will choose this path as they can simply focus on basketball and not have to go to School
College Basketball exposure is not what it once was especially if that said player is only looking at being in school 1 year.
Step in the right direction in my opinion though from the standpoint if a kid needs money and does not want to go to College, has a better avenue now
Ayton got $8M at 19 years old. The 20th pick in the draft is making $2.1M this season.Beachcat97 wrote:125K at 18 is a sh*t-ton of money, especially for kids who grew up poor.
Per class? No way. Keep in mind this is meant for "elite players." The definition of that is up in the air certainly, but what normal people would consider elite roughly 99.5% would say fuck off to the G league for 125k.Newportcat wrote:I could see 5-10 players doing this. To me that's a good amount.ChooChooCat wrote:How much is a good amount of kids? I mean there's a few academic casualty kids and Kobi Simmonses out there that this is great for. Most kids as a business decision though will continue to choose the NCAA and it wont even be close.Newportcat wrote:Disagree
I think a good amount of kids will choose this path as they can simply focus on basketball and not have to go to School
College Basketball exposure is not what it once was especially if that said player is only looking at being in school 1 year.
Step in the right direction in my opinion though from the standpoint if a kid needs money and does not want to go to College, has a better avenue now
Yes they canNYCat wrote:Can a 3★/4★ even make a G league roster out of HS? And if they did would they even play? The G league will be filled with college all stars, former 5★ prospects, former high prospects on two way contracts etc. And they're not getting the elite prospect money, they're getting paid shit.
Depending on how weak or strong a recruiting class is, usually only the top 13-15 prospects could do this without exposing weakness, not playing, etc
I think everyone here is missing the bigger point. NBA is trying to create a minor league system under Adam Silver that does look at bypassing college. Is it perfect yet, heck no but they are progressive steps forward from relying on college basketball to be their minor league systemChooChooCat wrote:Per class? No way. Keep in mind this is meant for "elite players." The definition of that is up in the air certainly, but what normal people would consider elite roughly 99.5% would say fuck off to the G league for 125k.Newportcat wrote:I could see 5-10 players doing this. To me that's a good amount.ChooChooCat wrote:How much is a good amount of kids? I mean there's a few academic casualty kids and Kobi Simmonses out there that this is great for. Most kids as a business decision though will continue to choose the NCAA and it wont even be close.Newportcat wrote:Disagree
I think a good amount of kids will choose this path as they can simply focus on basketball and not have to go to School
College Basketball exposure is not what it once was especially if that said player is only looking at being in school 1 year.
Step in the right direction in my opinion though from the standpoint if a kid needs money and does not want to go to College, has a better avenue now
Once again, dominating your peers or remaining a mystery leads to being drafted higher, which leads to a longer guaranteed contract, and much more money, even if your fictional reality of $500K to every G League player comes true (spoiler alert, it won't).Newportcat wrote:I think everyone here is missing the bigger point. NBA is trying to create a minor league system under Adam Silver that does look at bypassing college. Is it perfect yet, heck no but they are progressive steps forward from relying on college basketball to be their minor league systemChooChooCat wrote:Per class? No way. Keep in mind this is meant for "elite players." The definition of that is up in the air certainly, but what normal people would consider elite roughly 99.5% would say fuck off to the G league for 125k.Newportcat wrote:I could see 5-10 players doing this. To me that's a good amount.ChooChooCat wrote:How much is a good amount of kids? I mean there's a few academic casualty kids and Kobi Simmonses out there that this is great for. Most kids as a business decision though will continue to choose the NCAA and it wont even be close.Newportcat wrote:Disagree
I think a good amount of kids will choose this path as they can simply focus on basketball and not have to go to School
College Basketball exposure is not what it once was especially if that said player is only looking at being in school 1 year.
Step in the right direction in my opinion though from the standpoint if a kid needs money and does not want to go to College, has a better avenue now
If elite players don’t take $125k maybe they will take $500k. Point is NBA is making interesting changes
This coupled with removing one and done rule has major implications for college basketball over the next five years
Guys goals are to get to the league. If nba figured out a better way to do that then college guys will take it. My point is the NBA is clearly actively trying to create that better way.
I support this 100%.Newportcat wrote:Once again, dominating your peers or remaining a mystery leads to being drafted higher, which leads to a longer guaranteed contract, and much more money, even if your fictional reality of $500K to every G League player comes true (spoiler alert, it won't).
Once the age restriction is over in 2022ish the real elite HS talent will just go pro and the secondary elite talent will dominate their talent pool in college and benefit tremendously in the draft for it.
I simply disagree from the standpoint that I think players will view the GLeague much more beneficially to doing what they ultimately want which is to play basketball professionally. It is not just about the $125K but all the other benefits the NBA is saying they will provide that will help prepare these guys for being a professional basketball player. Now will the GLeague ever get to $500K probably not, but they are providing alternatives that are much more attractive then they ever have been. Keep in mind too, these guys can now get endorsement deals so will add to $125K.
Look at this video and see the reaction of two former players. They seem very positive on this and thats really to me the most important opinion.
Dismissing this or thinking it will not affect College Basketball to me is short sided. Outside of the NCAA tournament, College Basketball has been on the decline for many years (attendance, TV ratings, etc) and decreasing the talent pool will only hurt the game further.
Love this. Obviously don't have any inside knowledge but I would be surprised as of now if Dylan Smith came back next year, I would guess he grad transfers. I would also guess we lose at least one more guy...Akot/Randolph to the draf potentially, maybe Barcello as a transfer. If we can snag Armstrong (likely) and Nnaji (maybe 50/50 here), this would be an absolutely fantastic class. If no Nnaji, potentially a traditional transfer for 2020. Either way, has the makings of a national title contender imo. Key will be Williams coming back...if he does, I think we have the best group of guards/wings in the country next year.NYCat wrote:Anyway, back to recruiting. It's looking like Arizona will be done with recruiting in November. Fire up the 2020 thread
• Terry Armstrong: will decide soon, taking a visit to UNM. Heavy favorites here
• Zeke Nnaji: decides in November after all of his visits. Down to KU & UA. Robinson-Earl committing first to Kansas could help
• Jeremiah Robinson-Earl: decides sometime in November. Feels like KU, UNC, Nova are ahead
• Drew Timme: decides in November, feels like Arizona is way being
Scholarship count for 2019-2020 is looking tight..
1. Nico Mannion*
2. Josh Green*
3. Christian Koloko*
4. Chase Jeter
5. Ira Lee
6. Devonaire Doutrive
7. Brandon Williams
8. Terry Armstrong*
9. Dylan Smith**
10. Emmanuel Akot**
11. Stone Gettings
12. Brandon Randolph**
13. Alex Barcello
* 2018 recruit
** If they return to Arizona
Smith grad transferring is possiblity if he loses minutes this season, that opens up a spot. One or both of Akot/Randolph entering the draft also opens up another scholarship.
Frankly I like all the versatility, athleticsm Arizona could have at the wing. Beyond Jeter, just park Koloko down low to protect the rim and grab boards and let the wings do their thing.
The quicker Jeremiah Robinson-Earl commits to Kansas the better.NYCat wrote:Anyway, back to recruiting. It's looking like Arizona will be done with recruiting in November (at least high school prospects). Fire up the 2020 thread
• Terry Armstrong: will decide soon, taking a visit to UNM. Heavy favorites here
• Zeke Nnaji: decides in November after all of his visits. Down to KU & UA. Robinson-Earl committing first to Kansas could help
• Jeremiah Robinson-Earl: decides sometime in November. Feels like KU, UNC, Nova are ahead
• Drew Timme: decides in November, feels like Arizona is way behind.
Scholarship count for 2019-2020 is looking tight..
1. Nico Mannion*
2. Josh Green*
3. Christian Koloko*
4. Chase Jeter
5. Ira Lee
6. Devonaire Doutrive
7. Brandon Williams
8. Terry Armstrong*
9. Dylan Smith**
10. Emmanuel Akot**
11. Stone Gettings
12. Brandon Randolph**
13. Alex Barcello
* 2018 recruit
** If they return to Arizona
Smith grad transferring is possiblity if he loses minutes this season, that opens up a spot. One or both of Akot/Randolph entering the draft also opens up another scholarship or two.
Frankly I like all the versatility, athleticism, multiple ball handlers etc Arizona could have at the wing. Beyond Jeter, just park Koloko down low to protect the rim and grab boards and let the wings do their thing.
I could definitely be wrong and your points about the teams not owning their rights and therefore not caring about their development is a great point.ChooChooCat wrote:Newport you're point about the G league being a better developer of talent isnt unfounded, however you're missing so much on this man. For one if a kid goes straight to the G league then they're not tied to any NBA team, hence no team truly gives two shits about the development of that player. Say he plays for the Lakers G League team and they dont own the rights to him, why would they ever play him above guys whose rights they do own and whose development they're invested in? If they come to a college, guess what, the college is immediately invested in the physical and mental development of that player and he will absolutely get as many minutes as he can handle. Also let's not forget the difference in marketing. Any "elite" player will get infinitely more shine playing at Arizona, Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, UCLA, etc. than they will with the Fort Wayne Mad Ants. Branding matters for "elite" guys and the NCAA absolutely shits all over the G League in this matter.
Ultimately you're falling for the dog and pony show. The G League is providing a bogus PR stunt to make it look like they're trying to "fix" a mess they caused in the first place with the one and done rule. Another words you're a sucker lol. Agents, however, are not. They are the ones providing information to these prospects, hence why you'll see little to none of these guys go this route until 2022.
Had a 27 and 10 game last week: http://www.fiba.basketball/europe/u18b/ ... eijenbergh" target="_blankVrenz Bleijenbergh, 6"10" PF/SF, Belgium
Bleijenbergh was by far the biggest breakout prospect of this event. After averaging just 5.9 points and 4.0 rebounds at the 2017 FIBA u18 Division B European Championships, Bleijenbergh attempted at going the college route but didn't receive a single offer. Regardless of his future, Bleijenbergh has very good size, a frame with plenty of room to gain strength, can play both forward positions due to his shooting ability, quick first step, body control and terrific vision and rebounds in and outside of his area. He's averaging 14.0 points, 7.4 rebounds and an event-leading 6.2 assists per game.
You're absolutely right that the NBA is trying to make a competent minor league system and this is just step 1 of raising wages to really make it a competitive option for prospects. I'm glad you didnt take it personally when I called you a "sucker," I felt bad reading my post again and made it seem like I thought you were dumb, which was totally not what I was trying to convey.Newportcat wrote:I could definitely be wrong and your points about the teams not owning their rights and therefore not caring about their development is a great point.ChooChooCat wrote:Newport you're point about the G league being a better developer of talent isnt unfounded, however you're missing so much on this man. For one if a kid goes straight to the G league then they're not tied to any NBA team, hence no team truly gives two shits about the development of that player. Say he plays for the Lakers G League team and they dont own the rights to him, why would they ever play him above guys whose rights they do own and whose development they're invested in? If they come to a college, guess what, the college is immediately invested in the physical and mental development of that player and he will absolutely get as many minutes as he can handle. Also let's not forget the difference in marketing. Any "elite" player will get infinitely more shine playing at Arizona, Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, UCLA, etc. than they will with the Fort Wayne Mad Ants. Branding matters for "elite" guys and the NCAA absolutely shits all over the G League in this matter.
Ultimately you're falling for the dog and pony show. The G League is providing a bogus PR stunt to make it look like they're trying to "fix" a mess they caused in the first place with the one and done rule. Another words you're a sucker lol. Agents, however, are not. They are the ones providing information to these prospects, hence why you'll see little to none of these guys go this route until 2022.
I do think the marketing of a player through college basketball is much less prevalent today then what it was 20 years ago. As I tell all my buddies, I remember the starting 5 still from the Fab 5 and UNLV's early 90's team. I have no idea who was on Kentucky last year or this year. I did not realize Booker went to Kentucky until like 2 weeks ago. Everyone knows Ayton went to Arizona but for all the wrong reasons. I think the marketing you are discussing for the elite players who ultimately get most of the marketing by being in college a year or two is weak unless their team makes a final four.
You make some very valid points and again could be very wrong on this. If I am I will happily eat crow. But to me the NBA is aggressively trying to find ways to create a better Minor league/development system which should scare any fan of the college game. This coupled with the fact the casual fan really does not care much about college basketball anymore until the tournament and all the FBI issues recently suggest to me the College game is in a precarious situation.
I also believe this PR stunt is a step and not a final one. When one and done rule is removed then a team could own their rights to a player who opted to go straight to the G League or NBA out of high school.
Ultimately I think guys want to get paid as early as possible. Tell a guy he has a chance to make $125K a year and skip going to college and the NBA figures out how to make it a better path to the NBA, more guys will go that way. Players listen to their parents, other family members, and other players first, not agents. One of my good friends is a top NFL agent and he would tell you this.
That's why that video struck me so much as both Chauncey and Tracy felt like this was a great move and guys should do it.
Again, could be totally wrong and always respect your opinions Choo
He signed a pro contract and is not going to play college ball.Jefe wrote: Where are we at with this guy?
Had a 27 and 10 game last week: http://www.fiba.basketball/europe/u18b/ ... eijenbergh" target="_blankVrenz Bleijenbergh, 6"10" PF/SF, Belgium
Bleijenbergh was by far the biggest breakout prospect of this event. After averaging just 5.9 points and 4.0 rebounds at the 2017 FIBA u18 Division B European Championships, Bleijenbergh attempted at going the college route but didn't receive a single offer. Regardless of his future, Bleijenbergh has very good size, a frame with plenty of room to gain strength, can play both forward positions due to his shooting ability, quick first step, body control and terrific vision and rebounds in and outside of his area. He's averaging 14.0 points, 7.4 rebounds and an event-leading 6.2 assists per game.
Problrm is, those dudes aren't gonna get offered a contract according to what was stated. They are offering 125k for high level guys with NBA prospects, not 4 year college level dudes.Newportcat wrote:Sorry, when I said a good amount of players I did not mean the players like a Deandre Ayton. I mean more 3-4 star guys who hate school. I actually could see a decent
Deandre Ayton in 3 years is not going to college and going straight to the league.
I could see the guy who hates school just doing this. Like the 10th round pick in the MLB draft who goes straight to Professional baseball. Figuring if he craps out at 22, he can always go back to school (Which they will usually not do)
Both the NFL and NBA have long used college football and basketball as their minor leagues. NFL seems hell bent on continuing that for the foreseeable future while the NBA seems the opposite. It appears the NBA really wants to control player development more and create a better minor league system.
Not necessarily good for college basketball long term
After Machina told me I was a bad fan of the U of A for not attending U of A football games, nothing anyone can say will make me feel worse then that....ChooChooCat wrote:You're absolutely right that the NBA is trying to make a competent minor league system and this is just step 1 of raising wages to really make it a competitive option for prospects. I'm glad you didnt take it personally when I called you a "sucker," I felt bad reading my post again and made it seem like I thought you were dumb, which was totally not what I was trying to convey.Newportcat wrote:I could definitely be wrong and your points about the teams not owning their rights and therefore not caring about their development is a great point.ChooChooCat wrote:Newport you're point about the G league being a better developer of talent isnt unfounded, however you're missing so much on this man. For one if a kid goes straight to the G league then they're not tied to any NBA team, hence no team truly gives two shits about the development of that player. Say he plays for the Lakers G League team and they dont own the rights to him, why would they ever play him above guys whose rights they do own and whose development they're invested in? If they come to a college, guess what, the college is immediately invested in the physical and mental development of that player and he will absolutely get as many minutes as he can handle. Also let's not forget the difference in marketing. Any "elite" player will get infinitely more shine playing at Arizona, Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, UCLA, etc. than they will with the Fort Wayne Mad Ants. Branding matters for "elite" guys and the NCAA absolutely shits all over the G League in this matter.
Ultimately you're falling for the dog and pony show. The G League is providing a bogus PR stunt to make it look like they're trying to "fix" a mess they caused in the first place with the one and done rule. Another words you're a sucker lol. Agents, however, are not. They are the ones providing information to these prospects, hence why you'll see little to none of these guys go this route until 2022.
I do think the marketing of a player through college basketball is much less prevalent today then what it was 20 years ago. As I tell all my buddies, I remember the starting 5 still from the Fab 5 and UNLV's early 90's team. I have no idea who was on Kentucky last year or this year. I did not realize Booker went to Kentucky until like 2 weeks ago. Everyone knows Ayton went to Arizona but for all the wrong reasons. I think the marketing you are discussing for the elite players who ultimately get most of the marketing by being in college a year or two is weak unless their team makes a final four.
You make some very valid points and again could be very wrong on this. If I am I will happily eat crow. But to me the NBA is aggressively trying to find ways to create a better Minor league/development system which should scare any fan of the college game. This coupled with the fact the casual fan really does not care much about college basketball anymore until the tournament and all the FBI issues recently suggest to me the College game is in a precarious situation.
I also believe this PR stunt is a step and not a final one. When one and done rule is removed then a team could own their rights to a player who opted to go straight to the G League or NBA out of high school.
Ultimately I think guys want to get paid as early as possible. Tell a guy he has a chance to make $125K a year and skip going to college and the NBA figures out how to make it a better path to the NBA, more guys will go that way. Players listen to their parents, other family members, and other players first, not agents. One of my good friends is a top NFL agent and he would tell you this.
That's why that video struck me so much as both Chauncey and Tracy felt like this was a great move and guys should do it.
Again, could be totally wrong and always respect your opinions Choo
Great discussion either way and I think there will be a place in the world where both a competent G league and a NCAA exist and those two sides will be more in a competition in a few years from now rather than they will be immediately due to this 125k rule. I disagree with your brand argument, but also see your point. I think the reason the NCAA survives regardless of losing talent to the league will be the brands of its schools. I think the mid majors of the world will be the ones to ultimately suffer and the NCAA couldn't care less about them.
The danger is if the kid truly isn’t ready. Getting exposed by a bunch of stronger, hungrier dudes nightly under the NBA’s microscope is not ideal. At least in Australia you’re largely hidden behind some highlight packages and stat sheets.Newportcat wrote:I can’t read the athletic so you can post a Summary
$125k plus the potential to sign an endorsement deal right away is a lot of money to many of these players and their families
Jeez. Nico, Green and Armstrong would be super effing loaded on the perimeter. Add BWill, Randolph and Akot, maybe Doutrive and good lord.ChooChooCat wrote:Terry Armstrong finished his visit to UNM over the weekend and should be deciding soon. Lots of recent crystal ball picks for the good guys have come in.
To boot: the only non-Zona pick was made in 2016 and is for Sparty, who is not in his final four.ChooChooCat wrote:Terry Armstrong finished his visit to UNM over the weekend and should be deciding soon. Lots of recent crystal ball picks for the good guys have come in.
Going to be such a great class. Gotta think at least one of Akot/Randolph will be gone next year just based on the number of guards/wings coming in next year.ChooChooCat wrote:Terry Armstrong finished his visit to UNM over the weekend and should be deciding soon. Lots of recent crystal ball picks for the good guys have come in.
This would be crazy and if/when he commits I'm not even going to understand it still. Once I get to the fifth dude on that list my brain just starts to melt down.Spaceman Spiff wrote:Jeez. Nico, Green and Armstrong would be super effing loaded on the perimeter. Add BWill, Randolph and Akot, maybe Doutrive and good lord.ChooChooCat wrote:Terry Armstrong finished his visit to UNM over the weekend and should be deciding soon. Lots of recent crystal ball picks for the good guys have come in.