Bear Down Wildcats

Olsondogg wrote:

jsbowl16 wrote:Jason Riley who said that Big things would happen today is saying that there will be a 1pm presser today at Louisville.

AD is gone. Pitino in meeting now. Expects to be fired. Both won’t be at presser. Louisville is done

Yeah, the only real question is how ugly Pitino makes it. Louisville is in the shadow of the death penalty.

CalStateTempe wrote:How is Miller gonna sniff out the player who took money and deal with this? I know there are some suspicions but nothing yet known (to me).

This likely has to be addressed before the start of the season if he wants a shot at having this season intact.

Who says he has to? It’s a rumor based on an FBI informant. To be legal, it hasn’t even been proven that any of that is true...that’s done in a court of law. Furthermore the ineligibility issue is an NCAA thing and not an FBI thing.

My bet? He says nothing like he did last year with trier and the season goes on.

Olsondogg wrote:

jsbowl16 wrote:Jason Riley who said that Big things would happen today is saying that there will be a 1pm presser today at Louisville.

AD is gone. Pitino in meeting now. Expects to be fired. Both won’t be at presser. Louisville is done

Just speaking to Jurich; he has nobody to blame but himself. He should have fired Pitino after Pitino's guys systemically set up underage pros for underage recruits. When he didn't he put himself (and Louisville) at risk.

I am not aware the Ayton received 500k, that would be the largest amount I've ever heard exchanging hands.

the going rate for top 15 five star players is 150k, of which Kentucky has more of than any school including Duke and UNC.

the issue is where the money comes from and that's why Adidas is of such interest to the FBI -- there has been an alleged direct line for many years.

UofAlum05 wrote:I thought it was strange how eager the FBI was to make it out that the Universities were victims.

Are you referring to language of the criminal complaint or something else? If it's just the complaint - generally complaints, indictments, informations contain the elements of a crime, the who, what, when, how, including the victims. It's not really some special or unusual thing. This situation is basically akin to a regular employee at a corporation who uses their position within the company to swindle or attempt to swindle customers. Even though he works for and is a representative of that company, he tarnishes the name and reputation of the company and its employees by engaging in an unlawful act, which breaches the trust consumers have and could subject the company to legal consequences, loss of money, etc. There is harm or the potential for harm, hence why they are considered victims.

Olsondogg wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:How is Miller gonna sniff out the player who took money and deal with this? I know there are some suspicions but nothing yet known (to me).

This likely has to be addressed before the start of the season if he wants a shot at having this season intact.

Who says he has to? It’s a rumor based on an FBI informant. To be legal, it hasn’t even been proven that any of that is true...that’s done in a court of law. Furthermore the ineligibility issue is an NCAA thing and not an FBI thing.

My bet? He says nothing like he did last year with trier and the season goes on.

Good point.

When is the next presser by miller.

Forgot to thank you 97Cats for coming by and dropping some good information. I slept like a baby last night, doubt that would have been the case had you not.

Maybe adidas is using these camps as tax shelters and "development/donations" to lower their corporate tax burden? Almost like a double Irish?

Maybe Feds have been swindled and that why they are wanting to bring adidias down?

Just some initial speculative thoughts i had last night.

rgdeuce wrote:

UofAlum05 wrote:I thought it was strange how eager the FBI was to make it out that the Universities were victims.

Are you referring to language of the criminal complaint or something else? If it's just the complaint - generally complaints, indictments, informations contain the elements of a crime, the who, what, when, how, including the victims. It's not really some special or unusual thing. This situation is basically akin to a regular employee at a corporation who uses their position within the company to swindle or attempt to swindle customers. Even though he works for and is a representative of that company, he tarnishes the name and reputation of the company and its employees by engaging in an unlawful act, which breaches the trust consumers have and could subject the company to legal consequences, loss of money, etc. There is harm or the potential for harm, hence why they are considered victims.

When an official at a public institution is bribed, the institution is a victim.

Improper use of the institution's influence by an employee for personal gain is the basic idea. By doing that, he abuses his position and victimizes the university.

Olsondogg wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:How is Miller gonna sniff out the player who took money and deal with this? I know there are some suspicions but nothing yet known (to me).

This likely has to be addressed before the start of the season if he wants a shot at having this season intact.

Who says he has to? It’s a rumor based on an FBI informant. To be legal, it hasn’t even been proven that any of that is true...that’s done in a court of law. Furthermore the ineligibility issue is an NCAA thing and not an FBI thing.

My bet? He says nothing like he did last year with trier and the season goes on.

Yeah, he or the school isn't going to say anything, standard advice from counsel when there is an ongoing investigation or criminal matter. He's a potential witness at minimum. Add the fact that he may have provided some assistance along the way.... We will never hear the FULL story from Miller.

Pitino is officially gone.

A couple of things occur to me, I have a feeling there really isn't as much of "another shoe to drop" as we think, it feels like the FBI statement was more of a fishing expedition than an actual announcement of real stuff coming down the pike...

I think we've already seen the worst of it as far as UA basketball is concerned...how that plays out with the NCAA is yet to be seen and frankly sas long as the FBI is driving the bus it could take years before we see the NCAA spanking us...and honestly this is a terrible time to let them spank you because once the Louisville dust settles it will show they were to slack in the past and they will over correct from here on out.

97cats wrote:I am not aware the Ayton received 500k, that would be the largest amount I've ever heard exchanging hands.

the going rate for top 15 five star players is 150k, of which Kentucky has more of than any school including Duke and UNC.

the issue is where the money comes from and that's why Adidas is of such interest to the FBI -- there has been an alleged direct line for many years.

Trying to process this..

Are we talking about funneling players to agents or is this payment-for-commitment dough? And yea, thanks for the info 97.

threenumberones wrote:

97cats wrote:I am not aware the Ayton received 500k, that would be the largest amount I've ever heard exchanging hands.

the going rate for top 15 five star players is 150k, of which Kentucky has more of than any school including Duke and UNC.

the issue is where the money comes from and that's why Adidas is of such interest to the FBI -- there has been an alleged direct line for many years.

Trying to process this..

Are we talking about funneling players to agents or is this payment-for-commitment dough? And yea, thanks for the info 97.

That figure is according to federal prosecutors themselves. $150,000 from Adidas to the players in exchange for the players landing at Adidas schools. That a player would receive $500,000 to attend a Nike school has no discernible anchor in the facts known publicly.

Except for that insider message board dude.

It is official: Pitino is out.

This is going to get ugly. And not just for Arizona (don't be surprised if the 2018 recruiting class disappears from decommits), but a number of the individuals and entities that are being indicted by the DOJ could conceivably try to make deals, and expose much greater and wider corruption. If five star recruits are receiving money and it is a widespread throughout college basketball's major programs, don't be surprised if other major programs are exposed down the road.

threenumberones wrote:

97cats wrote:I am not aware the Ayton received 500k, that would be the largest amount I've ever heard exchanging hands.

the going rate for top 15 five star players is 150k, of which Kentucky has more of than any school including Duke and UNC.

the issue is where the money comes from and that's why Adidas is of such interest to the FBI -- there has been an alleged direct line for many years.

Trying to process this..

Are we talking about funneling players to agents or is this payment-for-commitment dough? And yea, thanks for the info 97.

Given that we allegedly got Quinerly at a substantial discount, do we owe Book money at the end?

CatFanOneMil wrote:A couple of things occur to me, I have a feeling there really isn't as much of "another shoe to drop" as we think, it feels like the FBI statement was more of a fishing expedition than an actual announcement of real stuff coming down the pike...

I think we've already seen the worst of it as far as UA basketball is concerned...how that plays out with the NCAA is yet to be seen and frankly sas long as the FBI is driving the bus it could take years before we see the NCAA spanking us...and honestly this is a terrible time to let them spank you because once the Louisville dust settles it will show they were to slack in the past and they will over correct from here on out.

It all depends on the FBI and DOJ's end goal. We can all probably speculate that Nike and Under Armour are also involved in this type of stuff and be accurate. The FBI is tapping and confiscating phones, issuing subpoenas to cellphone carriers for phone and text records, internet service providers, email providers, social media entities, confiscating laptops, etc. All of these dudes are connected through probably one or two degrees of separation at most, and the FBI is going to have access to records, contacts lists and messages. If you are involved in this stuff, the FBI already has your name written on a notepad and/or already has your picture up on a whiteboard with strands of yarn connected to others' pictures. Add the fact that when the FBI heat is on, people will roll on others to save their bacon. If it stops at Adidas, they only need enough heads to take them down and put everyone else on notice as a deterrent.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing a lot of fans on this board feel optimistic about this roach bomb killing all these bugs behind the woodwork. College basketball may be finished, but more likely it's an opportunity to reset and build something that resembles the amateur collegiate sport we fell in love with.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

threenumberones wrote:

97cats wrote:I am not aware the Ayton received 500k, that would be the largest amount I've ever heard exchanging hands.

the going rate for top 15 five star players is 150k, of which Kentucky has more of than any school including Duke and UNC.

the issue is where the money comes from and that's why Adidas is of such interest to the FBI -- there has been an alleged direct line for many years.

Trying to process this..

Are we talking about funneling players to agents or is this payment-for-commitment dough? And yea, thanks for the info 97.

Given that we allegedly got Quinerly at a substantial discount, do we owe Book money at the end?

books buyout clause?

Friend who has insider info says Miller is out and Romar is in. Not sure how reliable it is but we have a mutual friend who is very tight with Romar.

Longhorned wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing a lot of fans on this board feel optimistic about this roach bomb killing all these bugs behind the woodwork. College basketball may be finished, but more likely it's an opportunity to reset and build something that resembles the amateur collegiate sport we fell in love with.

Totally agree. Getting past the short term, this is an incredibly good thing for the sport we all love for exactly this reason.

Get rid of one and dones move to a two year commitment. We've all talked about how big money has been corrupting the sport in past threads, this is an opportunity for the sport to record the itself.

Wha???????

Longhorned wrote:All the federales say
They could have had him any day
But they just let him slip away
Out of kindness, I suppose

I love this.

gumby wrote:

Longhorned wrote:All the federales say
They could have had him any day
But they just let him slip away
Out of kindness, I suppose

I love this.

Townes!

Here's how I remember it:
-Book was almost a non-entity when it came to our recruiting. It was a Miller/Pasternack show for a few years.
-Miller was absolutely disgusted after the 2015 season (the Gabe York senior season). He was unhappy with the roster of players they had and was furious about the Compton Magic/Adidas funneling players to Adidas.
-My hunch is that Book saw an opportunity to get back on Miller's good side.
-Then seemingly out of nowhere Rawle, Kobi, and even TFerg to an extent commit to Arizona. These were all players that every Scout and college coach in America was wary of taking.
-Then Book was back on the good graces of Miller and allowed to go independently find ways to land top tier talent into Arizona. Book thought he found some sort of connection that would bring it home for him.

97cats wrote:

Alieberman wrote:

97cats wrote:

Bosy Billups wrote:Timeline? Book was busted 3 years ago, had a mini suspension, then struck a deal to be an informant for the feds? Hmmm? #Homeland

Look at the timeline for when THIS investigation involved Richardson -- much tighter ...it's all in black and white.

Are you saying I can sleep soundly tonight?

not yet, but as in times past, Coach Miller got out in front of the issue long before ANYONE else.

there is still one variable left, the NCAA...but who knows when and where this will arise.

there are many other shoes still to drop, we are lucky az was included in the first traunch

Do any of them have three stripes?

cpt wrote:Friend who has insider info says Miller is out and Romar is in. Not sure how reliable it is but we have a mutual friend who is very tight with Romar.

Many of us have been commenting how our 5*s are different than 5*s that got to U.K. UNC and Duke for a while now...

Longhorned wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing a lot of fans on this board feel optimistic about this roach bomb killing all these bugs behind the woodwork. College basketball may be finished, but more likely it's an opportunity to reset and build something that resembles the amateur collegiate sport we fell in love with.

The one with the massive CCNY point shaving scandal of 1951? Or the one where Deon Thomas and Eric Manuel got paid in cars in the 1980's.

Heck, this stuff is tame compared to the past. You know college basketball was infested when they paid an ASU player to shave points.

NYCat wrote:If Adidas, Nike go down.. are we ready for puma, new balance, Russell, big baller brand to rule college?

How about forgoing buying all this shit?

CalStateTempe wrote:Many of us have been commenting how our 5*s are different than 5*s that got to U.K. UNC and Duke for a while now...

We're paying less?

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Longhorned wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing a lot of fans on this board feel optimistic about this roach bomb killing all these bugs behind the woodwork. College basketball may be finished, but more likely it's an opportunity to reset and build something that resembles the amateur collegiate sport we fell in love with.

The one with the massive CCNY point shaving scandal of 1951? Or the one where Deon Thomas and Eric Manuel got paid in cars in the 1980's.

Heck, this stuff is tame compared to the past. You know college basketball was infested when they paid an ASU player to shave points.

I don't know if anyone here fell in love with college basketball in 1951, but yes, in the 1980s a squeaky-clean head coach could build a thriving program without having to play dirty with criminals.

Bosy Billups wrote:So, safe to get excited about AZ basketball this season, or no?

I like the Red Team, unless it has that guy who isn't an amateur. Then I like the Blue Team, unless it has a pro, too.

NYCat wrote:

rgdeuce wrote:Jesus. How long is the recovery on a broken foot, 4-6 months?

Convenient

X-rays or it didn't happen!

Fire up the flight tracker, put Scheer in the bushes.

Pitino gone but this guy is still a free man?

97cats wrote:I am not aware the Ayton received 500k, that would be the largest amount I've ever heard exchanging hands.

the going rate for top 15 five star players is 150k, of which Kentucky has more of than any school including Duke and UNC.

the issue is where the money comes from and that's why Adidas is of such interest to the FBI -- there has been an alleged direct line for many years.

So the issue isn't the "going rate?" Jesus. What have I been following?

gumby wrote:

97cats wrote:I am not aware the Ayton received 500k, that would be the largest amount I've ever heard exchanging hands.

the going rate for top 15 five star players is 150k, of which Kentucky has more of than any school including Duke and UNC.

the issue is where the money comes from and that's why Adidas is of such interest to the FBI -- there has been an alleged direct line for many years.

So the issue isn't the "going rate?" Jesus. What have I been following?

Feel dirty yet? I certainly do.

CatFanOneMil wrote:A couple of things occur to me, I have a feeling there really isn't as much of "another shoe to drop" as we think, it feels like the FBI statement was more of a fishing expedition than an actual announcement of real stuff coming down the pike...

I think we've already seen the worst of it as far as UA basketball is concerned...how that plays out with the NCAA is yet to be seen and frankly sas long as the FBI is driving the bus it could take years before we see the NCAA spanking us...and honestly this is a terrible time to let them spank you because once the Louisville dust settles it will show they were to slack in the past and they will over correct from here on out.

They just seized Andy Miller's computer. He is a big-time agent with many tentacles. May be played out with UA, but not played out.

cpt wrote:

gumby wrote:

97cats wrote:I am not aware the Ayton received 500k, that would be the largest amount I've ever heard exchanging hands.

the going rate for top 15 five star players is 150k, of which Kentucky has more of than any school including Duke and UNC.

the issue is where the money comes from and that's why Adidas is of such interest to the FBI -- there has been an alleged direct line for many years.

So the issue isn't the "going rate?" Jesus. What have I been following?

Feel dirty yet? I certainly do.

Yeah. That combined with the pick-your-favorite-mob-family analogy made my morning.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:Many of us have been commenting how our 5*s are different than 5*s that got to U.K. UNC and Duke for a while now...

We're paying less?

Less "issues" academic or otherwise.

I don't ever recall a person staying silent who was innocent. The program is getting hammered, mocked and abused. Will be forever know as #apayersprogram. (That slogan is a victim, for sure).

Miller needs to say something. Saying nothing looks like calculation. Like he's wondering who knows what and who might flip and who might be loyal and on and on. Like he's weighing his options.

That's what it looks like. If he wants to change that, he needs to act.

every top 50 program for the last 25 years has paid for the vast majority of their top players.

the top, top programs pay for a much higher percentage due to the fact that they get a higher percentage of top players -- its been a know practice and somewhat accepted for as long as i can remember, and yes, Arizona is right there with the best of them.

the programs with the pedigree, resources, and willingness to "do what it takes" have had the clear advantage in landing the top stars.

where this falls on Adidas is that they have long been cornered with direct benefits to the teams they sponsor, whereas other programs like Arizona have had a deft process and tight secrecy.

Book exposed Arizona thru a channel it has never used, Adidas, for his own personal greed and gain -- not to mention 5k...and therein lies where all Arizona fans should be infuriated, fucking Book Richardson did this for 5k, 5 fucking k, and did so by going outside of the model that was so effective and un-penetrable up to this point.

so, its not about if the teams cheat, its how they cheat, and Arizona did it as good or better than anyone.

and one last thing, how do you guys think i know all the inside information i know? is it because you think i talk to Sean Miller everyday? or that Greg Byrne and Jim Livengood used to call me and tell me that Stanley Johnson was going to commit, or Aaron Gordon was coming to Arizona or that Chase Budinger was going to stay for his Jr year or that Sean Miller met with our main booster in Santa Fe or that John Calipari convinced Miller to come to AZ?

no, its because the web of involvement of people not directly affiliated with the program are intertwined in the mix, they are the ones who pull the strings and cover the man holes, and its like that at every school that handles their business effectively at this level.

its the darkest kept secret of of a 1000 or so people around the country at various universities who are not employees or staff members who are vital to the culture of college basketball today, and that culture is a culture of greed and billions and billions of dollars on the line.... from CBS and FOX to ESPN and Adidas and NIKE and Under Armor and Foot Locker and McDonalds and on and on and on.....

There's a big difference between buying a recruit and attempting to buy a recruit, especially if the recruit has multiple coaches involved in the process...it is possible that we have recruits that were "fished" buy a shoe company bribe that never congealed into anything but a scholarship from the school, there are various shades of nuance here, THIS IS WHY the FBI is going after the shoe company's/agents/financial advisers/ass.coaches/etc...

A kid taking extra money is one thing, his family taking money is another...a scholarship is a gentle form of bribery, it is state sanctioned, the problem is competing against empire sanctioned forms of bribery...

Book will likely do two years and write a book, UA will have some egg on its face for a rogue assistant, Miller will clean house with a flame thrower and we will survive...

Other schools might not be so lucky...I have no idea about other schools I went to Oklahoma State and as far as I could tell even as far back as the 80's they were somewhat crooked and coniving...I don't get that vibe from other schools even though I wish I did (How does Duke stay so squeeky clean? I hates 'em)...

Longhorned wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing a lot of fans on this board feel optimistic about this roach bomb killing all these bugs behind the woodwork. College basketball may be finished, but more likely it's an opportunity to reset and build something that resembles the amateur collegiate sport we fell in love with.

Like to think so, but I see a lot of shrugging about "the going rate." Seems the hope is that the bodies stay buried.

gumby wrote:I don't ever recall a person staying silent who was innocent. The program is getting hammered, mocked and abused. Will be forever know as #apayersprogram. (That slogan is a victim, for sure).

Miller needs to say something. Saying nothing looks like calculation. Like he's wondering who knows what and who might flip and who might be loyal and on and on. Like he's weighing his options.

That's what it looks like. If he wants to change that, he needs to act.

IIRC Millers silence in previous stuff was wisdom and somewhat mandated by the rules...

Silence now might actually be prudent as well as required by his contractual commitment to the Administration...he is probably only responding as he is being told to respond...if there are players on board who received money AND scholarships then it is a criminal investigation and he would be required to stay silent.

If I wanted to be suspicious of UA the place I would look is in the last 2 years the recruits that suddenly flipped TO UA, not away from us...those weird "no explanation" kind of recruit events where other schools were the major winner and suddenly the player commits to us...THOSE events are the smoking guns...

97cats wrote:every top 50 program for the last 25 years has paid for the vast majority of their top players.

the top, top programs pay for a much higher percentage due to the fact that they get a higher percentage of top players -- its been a know practice and somewhat accepted for as long as i can remember, and yes, Arizona is right there with the best of them.

the programs with the pedigree, resources, and willingness to "do what it takes" have had the clear advantage in landing the top stars.

where this falls on Adidas is that they have long been cornered with direct benefits to the teams they sponsor, whereas other programs like Arizona have had a deft process and tight secrecy.

Book exposed Arizona thru a channel it has never used, Adidas, for his own personal greed and gain -- not to mention 5k...and therein lies where all Arizona fans should be infuriated, fucking Book Richardson did this for 5k, 5 fucking k, and did so by going outside of the model that was so effective and un-penetrable up to this point.

so, its not about if the teams cheat, its how they cheat, and Arizona did it as good or better than anyone.

and one last thing, how do you guys think i know all the inside information i know? is it because you think i talk to Sean Miller everyday? or that Greg Byrne and Jim Livengood used to call me and tell me that Stanley Johnson was going to commit, or Aaron Gordon was coming to Arizona or that Chase Budinger was going to stay for his Jr year or that Sean Miller met with our main booster in Santa Fe or that John Calipari convinced Miller to come to AZ?

no, its because the web of involvement of people not directly affiliated with the program are intertwined in the mix, they are the ones who pull the strings and cover the man holes, and its like that at every school that handles their business effectively at this level.

its the darkest kept secret of of a 1000 or so people around the country at various universities who are not employees or staff members who are vital to the culture of college basketball today, and that culture is a culture of greed and billions and billions of dollars on the line.... from CBS and FOX to ESPN and Adidas and NIKE and Under Armor and Foot Locker and McDonalds and on and on and on.....

Totally thought the bolded was leading to you admitting paying players.

Maybe you did in a roundabout way