Bear Down Wildcats

GT did make the mistake of cooperating with the NCAA, something that Kansas won't be doing.

prh wrote:GT did make the mistake of cooperating with the NCAA, something that Kansas won't be doing.

NCAA has enough evidence to bury Kansas without cooperation. That's why Kansas is fighting this in the court of public opinion - they can't fight the facts.

GT just got a post season ban (plus some) for an assistant coach coordinating a trip to the strip club with two boosters.

Kansas's head coach and top assistant were coordinating impermissible benefits to gain commitments for years. Text messages and sworn testimony confirm it.

prh wrote:GT did make the mistake of cooperating with the NCAA, something that Kansas won't be doing.

... and I'm sure Bill Self is thinking, "if Roy Williams can can avoid penalties and sanctions, so can I. I will just deny, deny, deny..."

NOT

So if that’s what GT did how bad is it gonna get for us?

CalStateTempe wrote:So if that’s what GT did how bad is it gonna get for us?

For what? What rules did Arizona break?

CalStateTempe wrote:So if that’s what GT did how bad is it gonna get for us?

The coach actively tried to undermine the NCAA’s investigation. That’s always gonna get you the hammer (see: USC w/ Reggie Bush).

I was told but a trustworthy source that no post season ban is expected. Keep in mind how the amount of interest and money that will be lost if there was a post season ban. The PAC-12 and NCAA would lose a lot of money. See how much the PAC-12 and NCAA lost this year in Vegas.

prh wrote:GT did make the mistake of cooperating with the NCAA, something that Kansas won't be doing.

Maybe somebody did, but the assistant coach didn’t.

LaBarrie is accused of providing false and misleading information to NCAA investigators and Georgia Tech officials regarding his knowledge of the alleged incident. He also is accused of trying to influence the player to provide misleading information to investigators.

CalStateTempe wrote:So if that’s what GT did how bad is it gonna get for us?

Totally unrelated activities. Here is the NCAA on GT:

Two Georgia Tech boosters provided impermissible benefits to the men’s basketball program, according to a Division I Committee on Infractions panel.

“Both sets of violations occurred because men’s basketball coaching staff members invited outside individuals into their program,” the committee said in its decision. “They permitted these outside individuals to interact with their student-athletes, and those actions resulted in violations.”

None of that applies to Arizona. GT also had major violations in men's ball in 2014 and 2011. Again, doesn't apply to Arizona. The assistant coach in question at GT lied to investigators and obstructed witness testimony - I assume that doesn't apply to Arizona.

The Level 1 violations at GT occurred because an assistant coach took an active player and a recruit to a strip club and a night club, the active player told the compliance office, and the assistant coach then lied about it and tried to cover it up. It's nothing like what we're involved in.

Thanks YDF.

Just hunkered down waiting for this to blow over

So we have
Kansas
GT
NCst

3 more?

PHXCATS wrote:I was told but a trustworthy source that no post season ban is expected.

I believe that there is confidence in the program, though I also believe we could get a one year ban. We will certainly get probation and a scholarship reduction.

PHXCATS wrote:Keep in mind how the amount of interest and money that will be lost if there was a post season ban. The PAC-12 and NCAA would lose a lot of money. See how much the PAC-12 and NCAA lost this year in Vegas.

This line of reasoning won't be taken into account by the NCAA. KU fans have said the same thing. It didn't break the NCAA when Arizona didn't play in the tournament. It didn't break the NCAA when Louisville, the largest revenue generator in the sport, didn't play in the tournament. No team is above receiving a post-season ban and fans who think their program is "too big to fail" are letting narcissism get the best of them.

One last point about GT vs Arizona...

I view Arizona's potential violations as likely to be less than GT's (no evidence of impermissible benefits), and therefore the punishment for Arizona ought to be below GT's. Hopefully, that means less than a one year ban (zero). TBD.

YoDeFoe wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:I was told but a trustworthy source that no post season ban is expected.

I believe that there is confidence in the program, though I also believe we could get a one year ban. We will certainly get probation and a scholarship reduction.

PHXCATS wrote:Keep in mind how the amount of interest and money that will be lost if there was a post season ban. The PAC-12 and NCAA would lose a lot of money. See how much the PAC-12 and NCAA lost this year in Vegas.

This line of reasoning won't be taken into account by the NCAA. KU fans have said the same thing. It didn't break the NCAA when Arizona didn't play in the tournament. It didn't break the NCAA when Louisville, the largest revenue generator in the sport, didn't play in the tournament. No team is above receiving a post-season ban and fans who think their program is "too big to fail" are letting narcissism get the best of them.

I will add to what I meant by this. I truly believe there is not enough to do a post season ban. With Louisville, with what we will have in Kansas, what we had with USC and Ohio State football etc was actual proof. We dont have actual proof here. So the PAC-12 and NCAA wont want to do a post season ban as it will result in millions of lost dollars when there is no proof to please the media and uninformed fans of other programs.

YoDeFoe wrote:One last point about GT vs Arizona...

I view Arizona's potential violations as likely to be less than GT's (no evidence of impermissible benefits), and therefore the punishment for Arizona ought to be below GT's. Hopefully, that means less than a one year ban (zero). TBD.

We, at a minimum, need to push very hard on that point. We aren't very comparable to GT.

When something happens with Ok. St. or USC, then we have our comparison point. We're better situated than them with no eligibility suspensions.

You have to think the NCAA looks at us as a conundrum. They would love to follow ESPIN and make an example of us but it would be hard, given their own exoneration of our players in question. Just wish we would get to it and get it by us

azcat49 wrote:You have to think the NCAA looks at us as a conundrum. They would love to follow ESPIN and make an example of us but it would be hard, given their own exoneration of our players in question. Just wish we would get to it and get it by us

Why? Why would they do that?

PHXCATS wrote:

azcat49 wrote:You have to think the NCAA looks at us as a conundrum. They would love to follow ESPIN and make an example of us but it would be hard, given their own exoneration of our players in question. Just wish we would get to it and get it by us

Why? Why would they do that?

Because if they don't go hard on us with the media coverage as it is, there will be backlash. You don't think Dickie V will lose his mind if our notice has substantially less than Kansas?

The NCAA knows they are full of shit. That's the issue.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:

azcat49 wrote:You have to think the NCAA looks at us as a conundrum. They would love to follow ESPIN and make an example of us but it would be hard, given their own exoneration of our players in question. Just wish we would get to it and get it by us

Why? Why would they do that?

Because if they don't go hard on us with the media coverage as it is, there will be backlash. You don't think Dickie V will lose his mind if our notice has substantially less than Kansas?

What does the NCAA want more? Bilas Dickie V yahoo and Schlabach upset for a week or an extra few million dollars?

People keep forgetting the NCAA is not a "for profit" corporation...it is a co-op, it is basically a committee on steroids...

It's pretty much the home owners association of college sports, they can tell what colors are allowed on your garage door and fine you if you leave your trash bins out or have weeds in your front lawn, but actual LEGAL power is all volunteered...of course THAT does hold up in court, as Kansas will soon discover.

PHXCATS wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:

azcat49 wrote:You have to think the NCAA looks at us as a conundrum. They would love to follow ESPIN and make an example of us but it would be hard, given their own exoneration of our players in question. Just wish we would get to it and get it by us

Why? Why would they do that?

Because if they don't go hard on us with the media coverage as it is, there will be backlash. You don't think Dickie V will lose his mind if our notice has substantially less than Kansas?

What does the NCAA want more? Bilas Dickie V yahoo and Schlabach upset for a week or an extra few million dollars?

The NCAA sells amateurism for billions. That image is worth far more to them than Arizona.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:

azcat49 wrote:You have to think the NCAA looks at us as a conundrum. They would love to follow ESPIN and make an example of us but it would be hard, given their own exoneration of our players in question. Just wish we would get to it and get it by us

Why? Why would they do that?

Because if they don't go hard on us with the media coverage as it is, there will be backlash. You don't think Dickie V will lose his mind if our notice has substantially less than Kansas?

What does the NCAA want more? Bilas Dickie V yahoo and Schlabach upset for a week or an extra few million dollars?

The NCAA sells amateurism for billions. That image is worth far more to them than Arizona.

Who is not an amateur at Arizona?

PHXCATS wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

PHXCATS wrote: Why? Why would they do that?

Because if they don't go hard on us with the media coverage as it is, there will be backlash. You don't think Dickie V will lose his mind if our notice has substantially less than Kansas?

What does the NCAA want more? Bilas Dickie V yahoo and Schlabach upset for a week or an extra few million dollars?

The NCAA sells amateurism for billions. That image is worth far more to them than Arizona.

Who is not an amateur at Arizona?

Pretty much any highly rated basketball recruit. I would extend to highly rated football recruits, but we don't really have many of those.

PHXCATS wrote:I was told but a trustworthy source that no post season ban is expected. Keep in mind how the amount of interest and money that will be lost if there was a post season ban. The PAC-12 and NCAA would lose a lot of money. See how much the PAC-12 and NCAA lost this year in Vegas.

How about we look at it another way.

A post season ban on Arizona eliminates 50% of the countries interest in the PAC 12.

That means PAC 12 networks gets even less viewership, the schools are provided even less money, no Arizona in the tourney for a year hits the bottom line more with NCAA money not being distributed to the conference.

Maybe it's enough to get Larry Scott fired and a deal with Fox sports or another real network that normal people can watch.
So the take away here is

When life hands you lemons...

Fire Larry Scott.

They're not gonna fuck with our 2020 postseason. '21...who knows?

I'll continue to say: I don't think the NCAA gives a shit about fans or revenue in this one.

Here's who is being influenced to play favoritism: media members / journalists.

Titus and Sam Vecenie were on One Shinning Pod this week talking about the scandal and THANK GOD they noted how wild it is that the media wanted Miller fired on the spot but are having a collective "let's wait and see" moment for Bill Self. "Who will be the brave journalist to say Bill Self should be fired?"

Except they say it's not wild at all - Bill Self is a good ol' boy who everyone in the media loves and Sean Miller flew too close to the sun, picking up top recruiting classes year after year and pissing off every major coach in the process, they say. We've heard the same from some of our members here (shoutout 97).

I wonder if these media members are aware of their lack of journalistic ethics or if they even care.

Also, they love seeing Dickie V vs Arizona fans on Twitter and how deep Dick is up his own ass.

I'm losing my shit over the kid gloves that Self is getting treated with by the media. They're carrying his water for him in the press - "Self comes out defiant, this will be a fight, the NCAA is gunning for Self, has the NCAA overstepped, is the NCAA trying to make an example out of Self, can the NCAA prove that Gassnola was a booster?"

That last one... wow. Here is how the NCAA defines who is a booster:

6.4.2 Representatives of Athletics Interests. An institution's "responsibility" for the conduct of its intercollegiate athletics program shall include responsibility for the acts of individuals when a member of the institution's executive or athletics administration has knowledge or should have knowledge that such an individual:

(a) Has participated in or is a member of an agency or organization as described in Constitution 6.4.1;
(b) Has made financial contributions to the athletics department or to an athletics booster organization of that institution;
(c) Has been requested by the athletics department staff to assist in the recruitment of prospective student-athletes or is assisting in the recruitment of prospective student-athletes;
(d) Has assisted or is assisting in providing benefits to enrolled student-athletes; or
(e) Is otherwise involved in promoting the institution's athletics program.

That's the law. Notice little letter (c) there? or (d)? or (e)? It's black and white - Gassnola was clearly a booster and Self himself engaged him as a booster in documented text messages. Gassnola acknowledges acting as a booster in sworn testimony.

So WHAT THE FUCK, media? Unbelievable.

YoDeFoe wrote:Here's who is being influenced to play favoritism: media members / journalists.

Titus and Sam Vecenie were on One Shinning Pod this week talking about the scandal and THANK GOD they noted how wild it is that the media wanted Miller fired on the spot but are having a collective "let's wait and see" moment for Bill Self. "Who will be the brave journalist to say Bill Self should be fired?"

Except they say it's not wild at all - Bill Self is a good ol' boy who everyone in the media loves and Sean Miller flew too close to the sun, picking up top recruiting classes year after year and pissing off every major coach in the process, they say. We've heard the same from some of our members here (shoutout 97).

I wonder if these media members are aware of their lack of journalistic ethics or if they even care.

Also, they love seeing Dickie V vs Arizona fans on Twitter and how deep Dick is up his own ass.

And yeah, there are two journalistic standards here.

The punishment will fall into two camps. 1. - If you got an advantage in recruiting (see KU, NCSt) and if you 2. had an assistant involved in steering a player after they had signed to a financial advisor (see AZ, USC, Ok ST.). Auburn is an animal to itself. For sure the second one with the Rifleman but lied about their self inflicted secret probation.

I think the NCAA will deal with the first one more harshly. It strikes at the heart of being a amateur and disadvantages others vs someone making a money grab.

I think the publicity against Ariz will be a problem. I think a bigger problem for the NCAA will be to treat us different then USC etc.

They are also addressing in that order. I think Sean will be suspended for 10 games because he failed to control the actions of Book. I think their will be scholarship reductions but think a tourney ban is iffy. The only thing Sean did was fail to control Book and that will be the same punishment for the other guys that have an assistant involved.

TheCat wrote:The punishment will fall into two camps. 1. - If you got an advantage in recruiting (see KU, NCSt) and if you 2. had an assistant involved in steering a player after they had signed to a financial advisor (see AZ, USC, Ok ST.). Auburn is an animal to itself. For sure the second one with the Rifleman but lied about their self inflicted secret probation.

I think the NCAA will deal with the first one more harshly. It strikes at the heart of being a amateur and disadvantages others vs someone making a money grab.

I think the publicity against Ariz will be a problem. I think a bigger problem for the NCAA will be to treat us different then USC etc.

They are also addressing in that order. I think Sean will be suspended for 10 games because he failed to control the actions of Book. I think their will be scholarship reductions but think a tourney ban is iffy. The only thing Sean did was fail to control Book and that will be the same punishment for the other guys that have an assistant involved.

Agreed on the above. I'm hopeful that the media aspect isn't a driving factor as the NCAA has largely stayed out of the spotlight and has simply handed out the NOAs / punishments without press conferences or fan fare. That's to our advantage if they maintain that strategy.

Kansas, however, is going all out with a media blitz trying to drag the NCAA into fighting in the media instead of in the courtroom (or whatever NCAA equivalent). If they're successful in turning this into a trial by ESPN, we'll have the most to lose by that turn in process. That's a big reason why I'm so inflamed about it.

TheCat wrote:The punishment will fall into two camps. 1. - If you got an advantage in recruiting (see KU, NCSt) and if you 2. had an assistant involved in steering a player after they had signed to a financial advisor (see AZ, USC, Ok ST.). Auburn is an animal to itself. For sure the second one with the Rifleman but lied about their self inflicted secret probation.

I think the NCAA will deal with the first one more harshly. It strikes at the heart of being a amateur and disadvantages others vs someone making a money grab.

I think the publicity against Ariz will be a problem. I think a bigger problem for the NCAA will be to treat us different then USC etc.

They are also addressing in that order. I think Sean will be suspended for 10 games because he failed to control the actions of Book. I think their will be scholarship reductions but think a tourney ban is iffy. The only thing Sean did was fail to control Book and that will be the same punishment for the other guys that have an assistant involved.

10 games????

Seriously...try to remember that it took an FBI sting operation to even discover what Book was doing...how in hell is a coach supposed to find that crap, hire private eyes to follow his staff around 24/7 ?

The Pac 12 has pretty serious compliance REPORTING regulations, let alone the University and Miller himself...

I'm pretty sure there's no way to control rogue assistants no matter how hard you try...it looks easy because Book is dumber than a $5.00 rock...

Fucking FBI was needed to even catch HIM!

You cannot penalize what is impossible to control.

YoDeFoe wrote:

TheCat wrote:The punishment will fall into two camps. 1. - If you got an advantage in recruiting (see KU, NCSt) and if you 2. had an assistant involved in steering a player after they had signed to a financial advisor (see AZ, USC, Ok ST.). Auburn is an animal to itself. For sure the second one with the Rifleman but lied about their self inflicted secret probation.

I think the NCAA will deal with the first one more harshly. It strikes at the heart of being a amateur and disadvantages others vs someone making a money grab.

I think the publicity against Ariz will be a problem. I think a bigger problem for the NCAA will be to treat us different then USC etc.

They are also addressing in that order. I think Sean will be suspended for 10 games because he failed to control the actions of Book. I think their will be scholarship reductions but think a tourney ban is iffy. The only thing Sean did was fail to control Book and that will be the same punishment for the other guys that have an assistant involved.

Agreed on the above. I'm hopeful that the media aspect isn't a driving factor as the NCAA has largely stayed out of the spotlight and has simply handed out the NOAs / punishments without press conferences or fan fare. That's to our advantage if they maintain that strategy.

Kansas, however, is going all out with a media blitz trying to drag the NCAA into fighting in the media instead of in the courtroom (or whatever NCAA equivalent). If they're successful in turning this into a trial by ESPN, we'll have the most to lose by that turn in process. That's a big reason why I'm so inflamed about it.

I don't hate Kansas for their response. It's a smart one with the NCAA. The NCAA thrives on schools accepting punishment, and isn't well situated to fight or litigate.

You shouldn't lie to the NCAA, but cooperating does no good. GT proved that the other day. They self reported booster violations about a recruit who wound up at Duke and caught a tourney ban.

The Bill Self tweet where he's wearing a shirt with the biggest Adidas logo possible with gold chains. I love it, but god dammit nobody from the media will shit on him for that will they? Now if Sean Miller did something like that the collective response would be to fire him on the spot. Absolute dog shit.

ChooChooCat wrote:The Bill Self tweet where he's wearing a shirt with the biggest Adidas logo possible with gold chains. I love it, but god dammit nobody from the media will shit on him for that will they? Now if Sean Miller did something like that the collective response would be to fire him on the spot. Absolute dog shit.

100% accurate. its truly absurd

wow. KU posted it 3 hours ago

Dick Vitale would crap his depends if Sean Miller did anything like that. Then he’d smear it all over Twitter.

Not everyone backing down. I posted this in arch rivals but it might be good here as well.
https://sports.yahoo.com/kansas-bill-se ... 55766.html" target="_blank

The difference is they have bank records, wiretaps, etc. from Adidas that leaves no doubt that Self was in the know.

If ever there were a fucking perfect time to win a natty, it's this year. Just imagine the awkwardness of the ESPN coverage. It would be must-see TV for Wildcat Nation.

This is their strategy: Shoot the moon, make the whole thing a circus, throw as much mud in the water (and memes into twitter) as possible. Make the NCAA look like a joke or at least make them look weak.

Because Kansas is dead to rights and is staring down a multi-year ban and a show cause for their HOF head coach. He's a dead man walking.

TheCat wrote:Not everyone backing down. I posted this in arch rivals but it might be good here as well.
https://sports.yahoo.com/kansas-bill-se ... 55766.html" target="_blank

The difference is they have bank records, wiretaps, etc. from Adidas that leaves no doubt that Self was in the know.

PS all of these articles that lead with "HERE'S BILL SELF'S DEFENSE" can go fuck themselves.

Tell the people what is in the NOA, then tell us Dollar Bill's defense in contrast. It's ridiculous.

What an asshole.

He means FBI findings

Chicat wrote:

What an asshole.

DickV is a stain upon sports...the level of hypocrisy there has reached ludicrous speeds and eleven on the amp...can't wait when Bill Self goes to the NBA and leaves Kansas in a shambles.

PHXCATS wrote:

YoDeFoe wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:I was told but a trustworthy source that no post season ban is expected.

I believe that there is confidence in the program, though I also believe we could get a one year ban. We will certainly get probation and a scholarship reduction.

PHXCATS wrote:Keep in mind how the amount of interest and money that will be lost if there was a post season ban. The PAC-12 and NCAA would lose a lot of money. See how much the PAC-12 and NCAA lost this year in Vegas.

This line of reasoning won't be taken into account by the NCAA. KU fans have said the same thing. It didn't break the NCAA when Arizona didn't play in the tournament. It didn't break the NCAA when Louisville, the largest revenue generator in the sport, didn't play in the tournament. No team is above receiving a post-season ban and fans who think their program is "too big to fail" are letting narcissism get the best of them.

I will add to what I meant by this. I truly believe there is not enough to do a post season ban. With Louisville, with what we will have in Kansas, what we had with USC and Ohio State football etc was actual proof. We dont have actual proof here. So the PAC-12 and NCAA wont want to do a post season ban as it will result in millions of lost dollars when there is no proof to please the media and uninformed fans of other programs.

Delusional.

Oh good, some fun is back. What proof of added benefits? Ayton, Alkins, Quinnerly all cleared to play( unlike a few KU guys). Yes Book took money, but he kept it. Just trying to figure out your thought process and thinking on the two situations?

azcat49 wrote:Oh good, some fun is back. What proof of added benefits? Ayton, Alkins, Quinnerly all cleared to play( unlike a few KU guys). Yes Book took money, but he kept it. Just trying to figure out your thought process and thinking on the two situations?

So is he trying to say that ayton was paid to go to Kansas but he didn't go there so we are delusional to think that there isn't proof of a guy being paid to go to Arizona?

U.P. Zona Fan wrote:

azcat49 wrote:Oh good, some fun is back. What proof of added benefits? Ayton, Alkins, Quinnerly all cleared to play( unlike a few KU guys). Yes Book took money, but he kept it. Just trying to figure out your thought process and thinking on the two situations?

So is he trying to say that ayton was paid to go to Kansas but he didn't go there so we are delusional to think that there isn't proof of a guy being paid to go to Arizona?

You’d definitely have to pay me to go to Kansas.

(*shudder*)

Yuck....

enfuego wrote:

We know.