Bribery Scandal - FBI Probe - Book Richardson Involved

[zonagrad]

I think 99% of loyal fans agree with that last paragraph.

[azcat49]

My god. People are still worried cause of negative tweets and stories that nobody outside of the fan base cares about?

Cal has been dirty for decades and who the fuck cares. Win.

Also, if anyone has an idea what the NCAA does then they are fucking Nostradamus...it's the most disorganized and bat shit crazy entity in all of sports that has no rhyme or reason for doing what it does.

I'll wait for the example where self-sanctioning was a positive for the University/program. People are clutching their pearls when we had a FB program that was looking the other way on sexually abusing children, while current coaches in the PAC look the other way when multiple players--in multiple years--rape co-ed's.

Spare me the "we shoudla self sanctioned" bullshit about someone dropping bags to secure recruits. Arizona should put their lawyers to good use and tell the NCAA to fuck itself.

I think DMJ just got his nuts bit off by ODogg!!!!

[dovecanyoncat]

My god. People are still worried cause of negative tweets and stories that nobody outside of the fan base cares about?

Cal has been dirty for decades and who the fuck cares. Win.

Also, if anyone has an idea what the NCAA does then they are fucking Nostradamus...it's the most disorganized and bat shit crazy entity in all of sports that has no rhyme or reason for doing what it does.

I'll wait for the example where self-sanctioning was a positive for the University/program. People are clutching their pearls when we had a FB program that was looking the other way on sexually abusing children, while current coaches in the PAC look the other way when multiple players--in multiple years--rape co-ed's.

Spare me the "we shoudla self sanctioned" bullshit about someone dropping bags to secure recruits. Arizona should put their lawyers to good use and tell the NCAA to fuck itself.

I think DMJ just got his hurts bit off by ODogg!!!!

Game over, baby, game over!

[CatFanOneMil]

I hate to be the guy that reminds us we can't have nice things, especially after last nights performance by an amazing incoming class...but there still seems to be a sword hanging by a thread over our program...

Last night SVP was the first sign of EatShitPN breaking from the tired and worn out Schlabadong stories about Sean Miller raping Dick Vilates grandmother and eating babies in his Lamborghini paid for by kick-backs, but even the SVP comment was a 2 ounce apology in a one ton truck...

Last I recall there were supposed to be no less than SIX schools hit with sanctions at the end of the summer...

Stan Wilcox, NCAA vice president for regulatory affairs, said two high-profile programs would receive notices of allegations by early July.

The remaining four would be rolled out later in the summer in what was described as a wave of NCAA investigations meant to clean up major-college basketball.

"There's even another group of cases that we're still working on," Wilcox said. "The main thing is that we're up and ready. We're moving forward and you'll see consequences."

Sooo...we got KansASS that has Bill Selfie taking self's with Snoop Dog and strippers saying "Nope"...and Georgia Tech got a little hammered...but if you do a Googly search for who else 90% of the hits will be about Sean Miller and the Wildcats facing prison time for money laundering Nike shoe boxes in Deandre Aytons closet...

Who else got sanctioned at the end of the summer (which last I checked happened BEFORE the rest of the country adjusted their clocks to Az time)???

Several articles QUOTE the vice prez of regulatory affairs for the NCAA...this was an OFFICIAL statement and everyone seems to have forgotten about it...

What gives?

Did they give up or were schools sanctioned in a double secret probation from Dean Wormers office?

I mean frankly I don't mind being the worst fraternity in NCAA history, but dumping fizzies into the swim meet pool is hardly sanctionable...

Scott Van Pelt broke ranks with the rank and file calling for Miller to be fired...is that a sign of things to come or just a trick of the tail?

(Extra points for Genesis reference)

p.s. Just saw that Utah got sanctionedin August...so we're down to three slots left for sanctionee's...

[Spaceman Spiff]

Dude, you're confusing sanctions with notices, leaving out NC State and Auburn and lots else.

[CatFanOneMil]

Dude, you're confusing sanctions with notices, leaving out NC State and Auburn and lots else.

Ok, same the same even if it is different, but WHICH teams even got notices?

NCAA said AT LEAST SIX TEAMS would be notified...Kansas got their notice,NC State got theirs...Auburn had two players suspended (prior to the NCAA official announcement)...and Pearl seems to think they might get some minor ding, but acts like it's no biggie...

My point is the NCAA mad a big hoopla about cleaning u the hoops and Az figured pretty high in all the billboards as the poster child for sanctions...or at minimum getting one of those nasty notice of allegation letters...and I trust Dave Heeke to handle it about as much as I trust EastcoastSpinNetwork to clear Sean Miller...

Who else got an invitation to the party? There were supposed to be six invitations printed out and so far I don't think we've heard anything...

[YoDeFoe]

NC State and Kansas got notices already. I expect Arizona, USC, Auburn, Oklahoma St, LSU, Creighton, and Louisville to also receive notices related to the FBI investigation.

The NCAA is moving slowly. I'm sure they'd like to make the most aggressive case against these schools as possible, while also balancing against the concern of overstepping and having to later retreat.

[CatFanOneMil]

NC State and Kansas got notices already. I expect Arizona, USC, Auburn, Oklahoma St, LSU, Creighton, and Louisville to also receive notices related to the FBI investigation.

The NCAA is moving slowly. I'm sure they'd like to make the most aggressive case against these schools as possible, while also balancing against the concern of overstepping and having to later retreat.

Yes I agree, but I also think they sent out the most egregious violation notices with the best evidence first, if not then they are doing some sloppy work...

I personally do not think the violation notices are ramping UP, I think they are winding DOWN...Bruce Pearl may be a bluffer, but he is not ignorant.

[Spaceman Spiff]

NC State and Kansas got notices already. I expect Arizona, USC, Auburn, Oklahoma St, LSU, Creighton, and Louisville to also receive notices related to the FBI investigation.

The NCAA is moving slowly. I'm sure they'd like to make the most aggressive case against these schools as possible, while also balancing against the concern of overstepping and having to later retreat.

We'll get a notice. I'm happy we weren't in the first two. I half expected we would be in the first two, and am pleasantly surprised to see the NCAA stick to evidence in going to NCSU and KU first.

But Book got convicted in federal court. Something has to be coming for that. Assessing where we stand is always about the idea that it will be punishment that's less than crippling, not that anyone thinks we'll escape punishment.

[JMarkJohns]

NC State and Kansas got notices already. I expect Arizona, USC, Auburn, Oklahoma St, LSU, Creighton, and Louisville to also receive notices related to the FBI investigation.

The NCAA is moving slowly. I'm sure they'd like to make the most aggressive case against these schools as possible, while also balancing against the concern of overstepping and having to later retreat.

We'll get a notice. I'm happy we weren't in the first two. I half expected we would be in the first two, and am pleasantly surprised to see the NCAA stick to evidence in going to NCSU and KU first.

But Book got convicted in federal court. Something has to be coming for that. Assessing where we stand is always about the idea that it will be punishment that's less than crippling, not that anyone thinks we'll escape punishment.

Book didn’t get convicted. He plead guilty to taking bribes, not a single aspect of which invalidates or makes ineligible any player. None of his pleadings or punishment revolves around anything he did with players, money to players, or money for players.

There’s a lot of differences.

[YoDeFoe]

NC State and Kansas got notices already. I expect Arizona, USC, Auburn, Oklahoma St, LSU, Creighton, and Louisville to also receive notices related to the FBI investigation.

The NCAA is moving slowly. I'm sure they'd like to make the most aggressive case against these schools as possible, while also balancing against the concern of overstepping and having to later retreat.

We'll get a notice. I'm happy we weren't in the first two. I half expected we would be in the first two, and am pleasantly surprised to see the NCAA stick to evidence in going to NCSU and KU first.

But Book got convicted in federal court. Something has to be coming for that. Assessing where we stand is always about the idea that it will be punishment that's less than crippling, not that anyone thinks we'll escape punishment.

Book didn’t get convicted. He plead guilty to taking bribes, not a single aspect of which invalidates or makes ineligible any player. None of his pleadings or punishment revolves around anything he did with players, money to players, or money for players.

There’s a lot of differences.

Let's not be pedantic - whether by verdict or plea, Book committed a felony through his work for our program. We'll receive a notice for that misconduct.

[CatFanOneMil]

NC State and Kansas got notices already. I expect Arizona, USC, Auburn, Oklahoma St, LSU, Creighton, and Louisville to also receive notices related to the FBI investigation.

The NCAA is moving slowly. I'm sure they'd like to make the most aggressive case against these schools as possible, while also balancing against the concern of overstepping and having to later retreat.

We'll get a notice. I'm happy we weren't in the first two. I half expected we would be in the first two, and am pleasantly surprised to see the NCAA stick to evidence in going to NCSU and KU first.

But Book got convicted in federal court. Something has to be coming for that. Assessing where we stand is always about the idea that it will be punishment that's less than crippling, not that anyone thinks we'll escape punishment.

Book didn’t get convicted. He plead guilty to taking bribes, not a single aspect of which invalidates or makes ineligible any player. None of his pleadings or punishment revolves around anything he did with players, money to players, or money for players.

There’s a lot of differences.

Let's not be pedantic - whether by verdict or plea, Book committed a felony through his work for our program. We'll receive a notice for that misconduct.

A notice of what? Book was fired as soon as Miller found out the extent and evidence for his wrongdoing...

I get that the NCAA "feels" like they need to punish every little infraction, but you don't get to make up infractions just for the sake of "looks"...

I seriously do not think the NCAA gives a rats ass about appearances here...it will come down to provable violations on the Universities part...I think what people tend to forget is this is not "Miller vs. the NCAA" it's the University of Arizona vs. the NCAA, the same University that the FBI listed as a VICTIM...

I keep hearing how we are going to get some drop kick penalty but so far no one has shown me the violation and consequences that the NCAA can use here.

As JMJ has pointed out, Book did not break an NCAA rule he broke a federal one...and as I read the evidence I cannot find anywhere he steered a player to an agent...which would be the closest thing to an infraction (other than committing a felony) that they can enforce...

Everyone comes back to "lack of institutional control" and I say if thats all they've got how can we expect much penalty?

[ChooChooCat]

The one thing to really dwell on here is in a court of law you need stone cold proof. In the court of the NCAA they don't need that to sanction. I know they're looking deep into Rawle Alkins's transcript right now based on Book's comments that he paid a guy to change his grades. There literally is no way the NCAA will ever get proof of someone ever being paid to do such an act (they certainly won't get it from Book directly), but that doesn't matter unfortunately.

[CatFanOneMil]

The one thing to really dwell on here is in a court of law you need stone cold proof. In the court of the NCAA they don't need that to sanction. I know they're looking deep into Rawle Alkins's transcript right now based on Book's comments that he paid a guy to change his grades. There literally is no way the NCAA will ever get proof of someone ever being paid to do such an act (they certainly won't get it from Book directly), but that doesn't matter unfortunately.

I don't think that is something to dwell on, hell with the current Memphis situation starting to boil over the LAST thing the NCAA wants is to pull some kind of rabbit sanction out of it's ass, everything has to be by-the-book and while I am sure we are under the microscope if you go and read the NCAA's EXAMPLES of a head coach NOT being sanctioned (example 2 where an instructor actually did the coursework for 5 players) it was determined that because the coach had no interaction with the instructor and there was no information that the head coach could have known about there were no sanctions handed down for "institutional compliance"...in other words the NCAA gives an example where some instructor actually does the classwork for 5 athletes and the head coach does NOT get dinged...what are the chances that Miller KNEW of anything Book might be doing under the table with grades?

I can guarantee you if Miller knew and let it slide then he should be fired, but I can also equally state if it even happened and Miller did NOT know then chances are its another nothing burger based on Book lies.

The NCAA does not give out "ghost rules"...either its an infraction or its not...in Memphis it is impermissible for FAMILY to get benefits from boosters...if anything Aytons mom might drag us down because of a job she got...but even that is hearsay.

[Spaceman Spiff]

NC State and Kansas got notices already. I expect Arizona, USC, Auburn, Oklahoma St, LSU, Creighton, and Louisville to also receive notices related to the FBI investigation.

The NCAA is moving slowly. I'm sure they'd like to make the most aggressive case against these schools as possible, while also balancing against the concern of overstepping and having to later retreat.

We'll get a notice. I'm happy we weren't in the first two. I half expected we would be in the first two, and am pleasantly surprised to see the NCAA stick to evidence in going to NCSU and KU first.

But Book got convicted in federal court. Something has to be coming for that. Assessing where we stand is always about the idea that it will be punishment that's less than crippling, not that anyone thinks we'll escape punishment.

Book didn’t get convicted. He plead guilty to taking bribes, not a single aspect of which invalidates or makes ineligible any player. None of his pleadings or punishment revolves around anything he did with players, money to players, or money for players.

There’s a lot of differences.

When you plead guilty, you admit guilt and are convicted of a felony. There's no difference between plea and trial.

I agree much more about the bribery. He pled guilty to taking bribes to steer players, though.

[YoDeFoe]

Regarding “fake rules” - there are several that could apply.

Unethical conduct
Failure to monitor
Failure to promote compliance
Lack of institutional control
Improper recruiting

The first allegation seems certain. The rest less so in descending order, based on some combination of actual evidence and how the NCAA feels.

[JMarkJohns]

NC State and Kansas got notices already. I expect Arizona, USC, Auburn, Oklahoma St, LSU, Creighton, and Louisville to also receive notices related to the FBI investigation.

The NCAA is moving slowly. I'm sure they'd like to make the most aggressive case against these schools as possible, while also balancing against the concern of overstepping and having to later retreat.

We'll get a notice. I'm happy we weren't in the first two. I half expected we would be in the first two, and am pleasantly surprised to see the NCAA stick to evidence in going to NCSU and KU first.

But Book got convicted in federal court. Something has to be coming for that. Assessing where we stand is always about the idea that it will be punishment that's less than crippling, not that anyone thinks we'll escape punishment.

Book didn’t get convicted. He plead guilty to taking bribes, not a single aspect of which invalidates or makes ineligible any player. None of his pleadings or punishment revolves around anything he did with players, money to players, or money for players.

There’s a lot of differences.

When you plead guilty, you admit guilt and are convicted of a felony. There's no difference between plea and trial.

I agree much more about the bribery. He pled guilty to taking bribes to steer players, though.

Steering players isn’t a crime or NCAA penalty. Promoting agencies for post-NCAA career isn’t at issue. It’s a state employee being paid to, which is illegal.

Coaches advise on many matters beyond basketball.

[pc in NM]

Criminal violations and NCAA violations are two entirely distinct categories.

As far as aI understand, Book pleaded guilty to accepting money illegally. He may, or may not, have intended to, or actually used any of that money to violate NCAA regulations. There was no evidence beyond observed conversations between Book and the Dddidas guys that was admitted into the court proceedings.

The NCAA would have to obtain distinct evidence outside of what transpired in the court case.

Reportedly, the U of A has hired a credible law firm to conduct exactly that type of investigation of possible NCAA violations. All indications are that if they had uncovered any that: 1) the U of A would have self-reported the findings (specifically to mitigate any “lack of institutional control” claims); and 2) disciplined CSM. Neither has occurred, so, it seems that there may in fact not be evidence there....

Change my mind.

[Longhorned]

I think the question of Book paying someone to change Atkinson’s transcript is unrelated to Book’s felony, and obviously would be in the NCAA purview. I can also see how it’s something Arizona’s compliance office wouldn’t have caught, since they would have been among the targets of deceit. Since it was in Book’s personal interests to bring Miller a prize NYC recruit, it would also fit the pattern of Book’s deceit of Miller. And it would absolutely be legit if the NCAA hits our program if they find evidence Book did that.

Book was clearly awful for Arizona, and many of us on the outside seem to have grasped that before Miller understood the relationship needed to end immediately. This example of Book’s mouthing off is potentially different from his self-serving lies. Just have to wait and see.

[CatFanOneMil]

I think the question of Book paying someone to change Atkinson’s transcript is unrelated to Book’s felony, and obviously would be in the NCAA purview. I can also see how it’s something Arizona’s compliance office wouldn’t have caught, since they would have been among the targets of deceit. Since it was in Book’s personal interests to bring Miller a prize NYC recruit, it would also fit the pattern of Book’s deceit of Miller. And it would absolutely be legit if the NCAA hits our program if they find evidence Book did that.

Book was clearly awful for Arizona, and many of us on the outside seem to have grasped that before Miller understood the relationship needed to end immediately. This example of Book’s mouthing off is potentially different from his self-serving lies. Just have to wait and see.

EXCEPT...that on the NCAA's own website about HOW coaches are penalized they give an example that I listed above where the head coach had no direct knowledge of an instructor ACTUALLY DOING THE WORK for student athletes, and in their OWN example they cite this as the reason there were no penalties imposed for lack of control...they cannot hit Miller if Book kept it hidden...and in this case I doubt he was that smart...it would require a bit of a conspiracy for him to pull this off and we all know Book is the dumbest motherfucker to ever come to Arizona...being dumb is not a crime, doing crime while being dumb is both.

[Jefe]

[YoDeFoe]

We're going to have scholarships reduced in like 2023 over something that happened in summer 2017.

[RondaeShimmy]

"The source said Oklahoma State will contest the Level I designation but is not in dispute of the facts of the case. The school is aiming for a hearing with the NCAA within the next four months -- before the end of the season. If the Level I violation holds, Oklahoma State stands to potentially lose a scholarship or two, face a fine, be docked recruiting days and could face probation."

[ChooChooCat]

That's just about what we should be looking at.

[PHXCATS]

That's just about what we should be looking at.

Exactly

Keep in mind that Oklahoma's coach caused a player to miss time. Book's actions did not

[CatFanOneMil]

That's just about what we should be looking at.

Pretty much EXACTLY what we should expect with one notable exception, we did not have any players affected by Books actions like Evans did (Evans' actions caused one Oklahoma State player, later to be revealed in federal court as Jeffrey Carroll, to miss three games at the start of the 2017-18 season. The source told CBS Sports that Evans is also accused by the NCAA of accepting at least $18,000 and as much as $40,000).

While I do not expect the NCAA to go "lightly" on UofA, the designation of a Level I violation is probably connected to the issue of damaging a student athlete...

I fully expect heads will explode when UA gets their letter...people are gonna be fucking livid...when in fact WE should be livid.

[Spaceman Spiff]

That's just about what we should be looking at.

Frankly, it would be pretty reasonable. I've never thought we'd escape unscathed, but it seems a relatively reasonable penalty.

[zonagrad]

That's just about what we should be looking at.

Pretty much EXACTLY what we should expect with one notable exception, we did not have any players affected by Books actions like Evans did (Evans' actions caused one Oklahoma State player, later to be revealed in federal court as Jeffrey Carroll, to miss three games at the start of the 2017-18 season. The source told CBS Sports that Evans is also accused by the NCAA of accepting at least $18,000 and as much as $40,000).

While I do not expect the NCAA to go "lightly" on UofA, the designation of a Level I violation is probably connected to the issue of damaging a student athlete...

I fully expect heads will explode when UA gets their letter...people are gonna be fucking livid...when in fact WE should be livid.

Unless Arizona gets at least a post-season ban -- the national perception is going to be the NCAA went light on Arizona. And we shouldn't get a post-season ban because so far there is zero evidence. The irresponsible reporting by ESPN and others severely damaged Arizona and Miller's reputation. In fact, that would be one of the arguments the UA lawyers should throw at the NCAA: that we've endured nearly two years of punishment by the misrepresentation of the facts. I doubt the NCAA gives a shit -- but it's the truth.

[YoDeFoe]

That's just about what we should be looking at.

Exactly

Keep in mind that Oklahoma's coach caused a player to miss time. Book's actions did not

Sort of... they held out Carroll while investigating. We simply played Alkins and chose not to hold him out. Both were being targeted by their assistant coach for steering to Dawkins.

Arizona and OK State are basically in the same boat here.

Auburn and KU and UL and USC are the group where players lost an entire year of eligibility due to payments (or concerns over payments). Creighton could be in either group depending on the evidence (there's testimony that assistant coach Preston Murphy had a deal to pay Bowen's family $100k and provide a job for his father).

The additional hair for Arizona is how often our name came up and all the additional talk (school transcripts, Sean taking care of payments, etc) - which I don't buy there's hard evidence on but I also don't have a ton of faith in the NCAA. Lastly, there's the remaining question of Shareef's eligibility and our other assistant coach's involvement. Again don't believe there's hard evidence there but it's a risk.

[YoDeFoe]

That's just about what we should be looking at.

Pretty much EXACTLY what we should expect with one notable exception, we did not have any players affected by Books actions like Evans did (Evans' actions caused one Oklahoma State player, later to be revealed in federal court as Jeffrey Carroll, to miss three games at the start of the 2017-18 season. The source told CBS Sports that Evans is also accused by the NCAA of accepting at least $18,000 and as much as $40,000).

While I do not expect the NCAA to go "lightly" on UofA, the designation of a Level I violation is probably connected to the issue of damaging a student athlete...

I fully expect heads will explode when UA gets their letter...people are gonna be fucking livid...when in fact WE should be livid.

Unless Arizona gets at least a post-season ban -- the national perception is going to be the NCAA went light on Arizona. And we shouldn't get a post-season ban because so far there is zero evidence. The irresponsible reporting by ESPN and others severely damaged Arizona and Miller's reputation. In fact, that would be one of the arguments the UA lawyers should throw at the NCAA: that we've endured nearly two years of punishment by the misrepresentation of the facts. I doubt the NCAA gives a shit -- but it's the truth.

It's certainly an argument I would make, and it dovetails with one of our main arguments of defense: that Book said a lot of things that simply weren't true, that were self serving in gaining him more bribery money but which became incredibly damaging to the university/program as they reverberated through the media. The stories he told weren't true and we've suffered the burden of those false and negative rumors since the beginning of the trail. Connect that to the lost recruits (very easy from timing and their own statements) and there's measurable damage.

Again that works two fold for us: 1) it puts to bed the question of whether the talk is true and should carry additional violations, and 2) it further casts us as a victim who should not be unduly punished.

[ChooChooCat]

The Book stories and namely the Rawle transcript stuff is what's taking so long for the NCAA to finalize their stuff on us quite frankly.

[YoDeFoe]

The Book stories and namely the Rawle transcript stuff is what's taking so long for the NCAA to finalize their stuff on us quite frankly.

Which is part of why I'm not going to blow those off. Maybe there's something in there, something that shakes loose. We're more exposed than other programs because of all of those loose threads.

[CatFanOneMil]

So it seems to me that ESPN has basically forgotten about all the NCAA stuff for now, especially when it comes to Kansas.

I'm not really surprised but watching Kansas play on ESPN you would never know that there have been some serious allegations raised against the team for basically cheating...not one damn word.

This goes for other teams as well...and I notice that as a general rule ESPN has been throwing their worst announcers at our games...

Wonder what pops up against Gonzaga?

[84Cat]

So it seems to me that ESPN has basically forgotten about all the NCAA stuff for now, especially when it comes to Kansas.

I'm not really surprised but watching Kansas play on ESPN you would never know that there have been some serious allegations raised against the team for basically cheating...not one damn word.

This goes for other teams as well...and I notice that as a general rule ESPN has been throwing their worst announcers at our games...

Wonder what pops up against Gonzaga?

Dan Shulman and Jay Bilas are calling the game against Gonzaga according to the game notes

[RondaeShimmy]

So it seems to me that ESPN has basically forgotten about all the NCAA stuff for now, especially when it comes to Kansas.

I'm not really surprised but watching Kansas play on ESPN you would never know that there have been some serious allegations raised against the team for basically cheating...not one damn word.

This goes for other teams as well...and I notice that as a general rule ESPN has been throwing their worst announcers at our games...

Wonder what pops up against Gonzaga?

Dan Shulman and Jay Bilas are calling the game against Gonzaga according to the game notes

https://espnpressroom.com/us/college-basketball-mens/" target="_blank

Bilas is calling the Georgia Tech vs Kentucky game on Saturday

Dave Feldman, Sean Farnham are on the Gonzaga game

[azcat49]

There is no way Bilas, Vitale or Davis ever set foot in McKale. I wish they would because it would be epic

[84Cat]

Opps, wrong year. Why does it take so long to get get the notes up for each game?

[PHXCATS]

So it seems to me that ESPN has basically forgotten about all the NCAA stuff for now, especially when it comes to Kansas.

I'm not really surprised but watching Kansas play on ESPN you would never know that there have been some serious allegations raised against the team for basically cheating...not one damn word.

This goes for other teams as well...and I notice that as a general rule ESPN has been throwing their worst announcers at our games...

Wonder what pops up against Gonzaga?

Let me first say that espn and Larry Scott are absolute trash at their jobs. Lets make that extremely clear.

But the quality of announcers for espn has put out there for Arizona games to date means absolutely nothing. It is not against Arizona in any way what so ever. The games on the espn family of networks has been the crap Wooden Legacy and Baylor to date. Baylor was during college football championship games so it would be absolutely riduclus to send a good broadcast team to Baylor. As for the Wooden Legacy, that was maybe the 15th best tournament that weekend that espn had rights to so they would logically for their business send their 15th best team or a west coast team. And the best west coast teams were assigned to better tournaments already.

If espn does not send Walton and or Pasch during conference play, that will tell you something.

[Jefe]

https://www.thescore.com/ncaab/news/190 ... -ncaa-case" target="_blank

Ex-NC State coach's attorneys question fairness of NCAA case

RALEIGH, N.C. (AP) Attorneys for former North Carolina State coach Mark Gottfried are questioning the fairness of the NCAA process after he was charged with failing to adequately monitor the Wolfpack men's basketball program for violations, including during the recruitment of former basketball star Dennis Smith Jr.

In a response to NCAA charges filed over the summer, the attorneys say Gottfried - now coach at Cal State Northridge - fulfilled his obligations to monitor the program and was following NCAA rules. They also say the NCAA is improperly using court testimony last year by a government witness that he delivered $40,000 to former Wolfpack assistant coach Orlando Early intended for Smith's family in 2015.

Specifically, attorneys Scott Tompsett and Elliot Abrams say NCAA bylaws prohibit its use in the infractions process because the court case it originated from is under appeal.

''The NCAA broke their own rule when they considered evidence from a court case on appeal and then relied on that evidence to charge Mr. Gottfried with a Level I violation,'' they said in a statement to The Associated Press. ''They should withdraw the allegation and let the court case run its course.''

The AP obtained a copy of Gottfried's response from N.C. State through a public-records request Wednesday. The NCAA filed four charges in July in the wake of college basketball's corruption scandal, with Gottfried charged individually under the provision of head-coach responsibility for violations within his program.

The NCAA has alleged that T.J. Gassnola was acting as an outside consultant of Adidas - which has an apparel deal with the school - to ''ensure Smith's commitment'' to the Wolfpack with the payment.

Yet the school, which released its response Monday, states the NCAA has not proven money was actually provided to Smith while questioning Gassnola's credibility. It also noted Smith - who entered the NBA draft in 2017 after one year at North Carolina State - denied receiving money in an interview with the school earlier this year.

In their response, Gottfried's attorneys say the NCAA enforcement staff hasn't told Gottfried how he failed to adequately monitor Early's recruitment of Smith or what he was required to have done differently, saying that the lack of clarity ''may be not a lack of desire but a lack of ability'' to explain it.

Additionally, the response accuses the NCAA of ''prejudgment'' after public comments by NCAA officials earlier this year that charges were forthcoming even with investigations ongoing.

The rest of case focuses largely on improper complimentary admissions on the men's basketball guest pass list. Gottfried's attorneys argue he directed his staff to communicate with the school's compliance office regularly, and relied on compliance staffers to monitor admissions logs.

The NCAA enforcement staff has 60 days to file its own response, which typically leads to a hearing with a panel of the infractions committee followed by a ruling weeks to months later. The staff of current coach Kevin Keatts, who replaced Gottfried in March 2017, has not been accused of wrongdoing.

[CatFanOneMil]

https://www.thescore.com/ncaab/news/190 ... -ncaa-case

Ex-NC State coach's attorneys question fairness of NCAA case

RALEIGH, N.C. (AP) Attorneys for former North Carolina State coach Mark Gottfried are questioning the fairness of the NCAA process after he was charged with failing to adequately monitor the Wolfpack men's basketball program for violations, including during the recruitment of former basketball star Dennis Smith Jr.

In a response to NCAA charges filed over the summer, the attorneys say Gottfried - now coach at Cal State Northridge - fulfilled his obligations to monitor the program and was following NCAA rules. They also say the NCAA is improperly using court testimony last year by a government witness that he delivered $40,000 to former Wolfpack assistant coach Orlando Early intended for Smith's family in 2015.

Specifically, attorneys Scott Tompsett and Elliot Abrams say NCAA bylaws prohibit its use in the infractions process because the court case it originated from is under appeal.

''The NCAA broke their own rule when they considered evidence from a court case on appeal and then relied on that evidence to charge Mr. Gottfried with a Level I violation,'' they said in a statement to The Associated Press. ''They should withdraw the allegation and let the court case run its course.''

The AP obtained a copy of Gottfried's response from N.C. State through a public-records request Wednesday. The NCAA filed four charges in July in the wake of college basketball's corruption scandal, with Gottfried charged individually under the provision of head-coach responsibility for violations within his program.

The NCAA has alleged that T.J. Gassnola was acting as an outside consultant of Adidas - which has an apparel deal with the school - to ''ensure Smith's commitment'' to the Wolfpack with the payment.

Yet the school, which released its response Monday, states the NCAA has not proven money was actually provided to Smith while questioning Gassnola's credibility. It also noted Smith - who entered the NBA draft in 2017 after one year at North Carolina State - denied receiving money in an interview with the school earlier this year.

In their response, Gottfried's attorneys say the NCAA enforcement staff hasn't told Gottfried how he failed to adequately monitor Early's recruitment of Smith or what he was required to have done differently, saying that the lack of clarity ''may be not a lack of desire but a lack of ability'' to explain it.

Additionally, the response accuses the NCAA of ''prejudgment'' after public comments by NCAA officials earlier this year that charges were forthcoming even with investigations ongoing.

The rest of case focuses largely on improper complimentary admissions on the men's basketball guest pass list. Gottfried's attorneys argue he directed his staff to communicate with the school's compliance office regularly, and relied on compliance staffers to monitor admissions logs.

The NCAA enforcement staff has 60 days to file its own response, which typically leads to a hearing with a panel of the infractions committee followed by a ruling weeks to months later. The staff of current coach Kevin Keatts, who replaced Gottfried in March 2017, has not been accused of wrongdoing.

^^^^THIS^^^^ might be why the hammer has not fallen on UofA...

Of course just because people are watching does not mean some organization is NOT going to break it's own rules, hell look at our government to see what is possible to get away with...still...the wheels of justice move slowly but grind exceedingly fine...it might give UofA ammo to push back and given the actual absence of real evidence of negligence on Millers part it could be why the NCAdontgiveadamnA has not moved on us yet.

[zonagrad]

I think Miller can show he followed all the rules a lot easier than the NCAA can show Miller allowed rules to be broken because at the end of the day -- there's no proof any rules were broken. Bad optics because of Book Richardson. But no violations. None.

[Spaceman Spiff]

The more other schools litigate, the better off we are.

[PHXCATS]

I think Miller can show he followed all the rules a lot easier than the NCAA can show Miller allowed rules to be broken because at the end of the day -- there's no proof any rules were broken. Bad optics because of Book Richardson. But no violations. None.

You are spot on

There could be some bullshit rule about following laws of the land or ethical conduct but I think that would just be a probation thing

[TheCat]

What we face and we will lose is that a head coach is responsible for the actions of his staff. We may mitigate some by showing meticulous records but the fact remains you failed to be compliant to the rules. Now if Kansas gets the same or less punishment than us I will lose my MF'n mind.

[pc in NM]

What we face and we will lose is that a head coach is responsible for the actions of his staff. We may mitigate some by showing meticulous records but the fact remains you failed to be compliant to the rules. Now if Kansas gets the same or less punishment than us I will lose my MF'n mind.

What specific NCAA rules are you referencing, and how, specifically were they broken?

[ByJoveByJingle]

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-baske ... eral-probe" target="_blank

USC officials acknowledged Friday that the university has received a notice of allegations from the NCAA regarding alleged violations in its men's basketball program

USC is the fourth Division I program to receive an NCAA notice of allegations related to the federal investigation, joining Kansas, NC State and Oklahoma State. Sources previously told ESPN that Arizona, Auburn, Creighton, Louisville and LSU were also under scrutiny by NCAA investigators.

[TheCat]

PC in NM,

NCAA Division I Bylaw 11.1.1.1 states that a head coach is
presumed to be responsible for the actions of all staff members who
report, directly or indirectly, to the head coach. The head coach will
be held accountable for violations in the program unless he or she
can rebut the presumption of responsibility.

A key point to remember is the Committee on Infractions, not the enforcement staff,
that concludes whether the head coach satisfied the requirements of Bylaw
11.1.1.1. The Committee on Infractions is made up of representatives from
the membership and the public

After ESPN how do you think we are perceived?

[pc in NM]

PC in NM,

NCAA Division I Bylaw 11.1.1.1 states that a head coach is
presumed to be responsible for the actions of all staff members who
report, directly or indirectly, to the head coach. The head coach will
be held accountable for violations in the program unless he or she
can rebut the presumption of responsibility.

A key point to remember is the Committee on Infractions, not the enforcement staff,
that concludes whether the head coach satisfied the requirements of Bylaw
11.1.1.1. The Committee on Infractions is made up of representatives from
the membership and the public

After ESPN how do you think we are perceived?

you have not even tried to identify what, if any, NCAA rule has been violated.

Violation of a federal law is not covered by the NCAA unless that action ALSO violates a NCAA regulation.

UNC committed academic fraud by having classes for which students received grades for virtually no performance. UNC athletes enrolled in, and received phony grades. But, because non-athletes were enrolled in the classes, the academic fraud did not constitute a NCAA violation.

An assistant coach was convicted of fraud. Got it. A fellow fraudster alleged that student athletes received illegitimate payments. Got it. BUT, there has apparently been no actual evidence of such illegitimate payments....

Got it?

[Irish27]

I would not be surprised if the Cats receive a similar penalty that USC gets. Hopefully a slap on the wrist.

[azgreg]

PC in NM,

NCAA Division I Bylaw 11.1.1.1 states that a head coach is
presumed to be responsible for the actions of all staff members who
report, directly or indirectly, to the head coach. The head coach will
be held accountable for violations in the program unless he or she
can rebut the presumption of responsibility.

A key point to remember is the Committee on Infractions, not the enforcement staff,
that concludes whether the head coach satisfied the requirements of Bylaw
11.1.1.1. The Committee on Infractions is made up of representatives from
the membership and the public

After ESPN how do you think we are perceived?

This is true. However, it's not a zero tolerance rule. As long as the school and coach show that they were ahead of the situation as soon as they were aware of it, they are fine.