Bear Down Wildcats

To opposing teams credit, I don’t know how you defend him aside adding up all 5 fouls for your bigs and using them all.

CatMG wrote:It is unbelievable how skilled he is. While I admit I haven't seen much of the other players that are going to high in the draft, I would find it hard to believe Ayton doesn't go #1.

The foreign kid who's projected #1 is a 18 yr. old basketball prodigy if you believe that. Magic Johnsonish with size and ball handling skills.

That being said i would still take the Black Mermaid with the #1 pick

Anyone recognize the spot on analysis from Fran Fraschilla last night stating defenders are supposed to allow an offensive player adequate space (i think he said there is an imaginary cone) when they have the ball and that wasn't happening with Ayton. Defenders are swarming around him so closely any move he makes creates contact but it shouldn't be a foul on him.

EastCoastCat wrote:Anyone recognize the spot on analysis from Fran Fraschilla last night stating defenders are supposed to allow an offensive player adequate space (i think he said there is an imaginary cone) when they have the ball and that wasn't happening with Ayton. Defenders are swarming around him so closely any move he makes creates contact but it shouldn't be a foul on him.

While the call in question did involve Deandre giving a bit of a lowered shoulder to make the space, it was a pretty close call, and led to Tom Crean going off in the studio shortly thereafter. Yeah...like you have to let someone land, they have the right to spin. Not step way out with elbows and arms, but to spin with their pivot to face the other way. And I think that is the first conversation I have with the refs pre-game if I am Sean.

EastCoastCat wrote:Anyone recognize the spot on analysis from Fran Fraschilla last night stating defenders are supposed to allow an offensive player adequate space (i think he said there is an imaginary cone) when they have the ball and that wasn't happening with Ayton. Defenders are swarming around him so closely any move he makes creates contact but it shouldn't be a foul on him.

Ayton's issue is that he's a monster that people bounce off of. I compared him to Shaq a while back for that reason. Normal players go full speed into him and Ayton doesn't move while the other dude pinballs off. It sh0uld be a foul on the other guy, but the refs see Ayton standing there while someone else goes flying.

EVCat wrote:

EastCoastCat wrote:Anyone recognize the spot on analysis from Fran Fraschilla last night stating defenders are supposed to allow an offensive player adequate space (i think he said there is an imaginary cone) when they have the ball and that wasn't happening with Ayton. Defenders are swarming around him so closely any move he makes creates contact but it shouldn't be a foul on him.

While the call in question did involve Deandre giving a bit of a lowered shoulder to make the space, it was a pretty close call, and led to Tom Crean going off in the studio shortly thereafter. Yeah...like you have to let someone land, they have the right to spin. Not step way out with elbows and arms, but to spin with their pivot to face the other way. And I think that is the first conversation I have with the refs pre-game if I am Sean.

Yes, a player can't raise his elbows or drop a shoulder to clear space, but the other half of that regulation is that the defenders allow him a non-injury-prone space to pivot on his axis. That's how you get the cylinder of space that the refs are supposed to allow all players, including 7-footers. If a defender presses up against Ayton, and contact results from the pivot, the ref needs to decide if it's a no-call or a foul on the defender. That one play where Ayton slightly dropped his elbow and White flopped should have been a no-call because the flop cleared the space.

Hey LH - speaking of flopping you must be impressed on how well Hurley has coached his team on this important DDC (Duke Defensive Concept).

Seriously, asu reminded me of a low rent la liga team with the way they were flopping about.

The black mermaid

NYCat wrote:The black mermaid

My god, not having Mr. Tangent calling our game with such a breath of fresh air.
Thought Fran was pretty good but the bar is so low with Walton.

EastCoastCat wrote:

NYCat wrote:The black mermaid

My god, not having Mr. Tangent calling our game with such a breath of fresh air.
Thought Fran was pretty good but the bar is so low with Walton.

You could just tell how much Pasch loved it without Walton on the call.

btfd16 wrote:

EastCoastCat wrote:

NYCat wrote:The black mermaid

My god, not having Mr. Tangent calling our game with such a breath of fresh air.
Thought Fran was pretty good but the bar is so low with Walton.

You could just tell how much Pasch loved it without Walton on the call.

I think he mentioned that about 3 or 4 times throughout the broadcast in quite a smarmy way too.

NYCat wrote:The black mermaid

It absolutely has to stay "mermaid," not "merman." The former shows the secure confidence to win a national title.

Longhorned wrote:It absolutely has to stay "mermaid," not "merman." The former shows the secure confidence to win a national title.

Moisture is the essence of wetness and wetness is the essence of beauty.

80% of practice should be rehearsing plays to get Ayton the ball.

As Chuck has said, you have to have "that guy" to win it all. We have "that guy". Let's hope we use him

Ayton is the best u of a player I have ever seen put on a u of a jersey. Granted I wasn’t around for Sean Elliott but Ayton is that good to me. I never thought I would see someone as dominant DWill was his sophomore year but Ayton to me is above him.

If he keeps working hard sky is truly the limits.

He gives us an X factor that should bode very well in the tourney

I know nothing anyone doesn’t know but sometimes I watch Ayton and pinch myself that he wears an Arizona jersey.

Newportcat wrote:Ayton is the best u of a player I have ever seen put on a u of a jersey. Granted I wasn’t around for Sean Elliott but Ayton is that good to me. I never thought I would see someone as dominant DWill was his sophomore year but Ayton to me is above him.

If he keeps working hard sky is truly the limits.

He gives us an X factor that should bode very well in the tourney

I know nothing anyone doesn’t know but sometimes I watch Ayton and pinch myself that he wears an Arizona jersey.

FYI, Greg Hansen today:

Look, Ayton isn’t the best to ever play at Arizona, no matter what the analysts say. Sean Elliott could score off the dribble, create a shot in traffic, hit a 3-pointer at any time and, perhaps most impressive, he was the best clutch shooter in UA history, big game upon big game. He wanted the ball when the Pac-10 championship was on the line at Pauley Pavilion.

Elliott was the basketball equivalent of baseball’s five-tool player. His instincts for the game set him apart.

Ayton isn’t a five-tool player. But he is the most physically imposing man in college basketball, able to run the court with guards, shoot from 3-point distance and, I’m guessing, win a pick-the-quarter-off-the-top-of-the-backboard contest.

Could Elliott do those things as a freshman?

I have never ever seen a better true freshman play at Arizona. Markkanen was the only one in that conversation. DWill truly blossomed as a sophomore.

Ayton is the best freshman in AZ history. It’s not even close, really.

And any talk about there being another Pac player with a claim to Pac POY is partisan BS.

Ultimately, Ayton may be judged largely on what happens in March. Bibby’s place all-time among AZ freshman is probably inflated a tad because of what happened in the tourney. Not that Bibby wasn’t great; he was. But if we’d lost in the S16 in ‘97, I’m not sure Bibby would have the same legendary status he always will in Tucson.

Ayton can claim a place on the AZ hoops Mt. Rushmore if we get to the FF next month.

pc in NM wrote:

Newportcat wrote:Ayton is the best u of a player I have ever seen put on a u of a jersey. Granted I wasn’t around for Sean Elliott but Ayton is that good to me. I never thought I would see someone as dominant DWill was his sophomore year but Ayton to me is above him.

If he keeps working hard sky is truly the limits.

He gives us an X factor that should bode very well in the tourney

I know nothing anyone doesn’t know but sometimes I watch Ayton and pinch myself that he wears an Arizona jersey.

FYI, Greg Hansen today:

Look, Ayton isn’t the best to ever play at Arizona, no matter what the analysts say. Sean Elliott could score off the dribble, create a shot in traffic, hit a 3-pointer at any time and, perhaps most impressive, he was the best clutch shooter in UA history, big game upon big game. He wanted the ball when the Pac-10 championship was on the line at Pauley Pavilion.

Elliott was the basketball equivalent of baseball’s five-tool player. His instincts for the game set him apart.

Ayton isn’t a five-tool player. But he is the most physically imposing man in college basketball, able to run the court with guards, shoot from 3-point distance and, I’m guessing, win a pick-the-quarter-off-the-top-of-the-backboard contest.

First off I really liked Greg’s son Ben (anyone heard from him as I haven’t in at least ten years) but everything Greg says to me is trying to stir the pot. I never take anything he says at face value

Ayton not a five tool player is such horse crap. He has the best tools I have seen from a freshmen Center ever. Can defend all around the court, can shoot, has strength, can hit the mid range shot, plus tough and aggressive, can rebound etc. that Alabama game he also hit two big shots

No disrespect to Sean elliott but Ayton is definitely a 5 tool center. He also has a much higher ceiling then any wildcat before him. I truly think he has the tools to be a hall of fame center.

Merkin wrote:Could Elliott do those things as a freshman?

I have never ever seen a better true freshman play at Arizona. Markkanen was the only one in that conversation. DWill truly blossomed as a sophomore.

Hansen is trying to be controversial for the sake of being controversial. Elliott was great, but Ayton's talent isn't just comparable to the best at Arizona. He may not hit as many big shots because he won't be here as long, but Ayton's ability is comparable to the best to ever play the game.

Elliott put up 15-5 his freshman year. As freshmen, it isn't close.

Most Hansen columns can be summed up as, “everything was better in the past.”

I shared the Hansen quote merely because it was directly to the point....

I think that a legitimate case can be made that Sean Elliot was the best player in Arizona history - for a carreer at least. I thought he was awesome as a frosh, too.

But, I think that Ayton is the most talented frosh I've ever seen in an Arizona uniform, and one of the best I've ever seen, period.

I also think that Ayton can be better utilized - as in the last 7 minutes of the ASU game - than he has been throughout the,season. The more that happens, the better Arizona's prospects in the tourney.

I do see a potential for the Cats to have a post-season resurrectipn similar to Danny Manning and KU in 1988 final four.

Newport, I agree 100% with your assessments of Greg, Ben, Ayton, and Elliott. I also miss seeing Ben Hanson at pick-up games and practices and reading his articles. I haven't heard of him in at least 10 years either. Anyone else?

I'm friends with Ben on Facebook. Seems to be doing really well, loves UA basketball as always, but really don't know anything regarding his health or relationships and such.

pc in NM wrote:I shared the Hansen quote merely because it was directly to the point....

I think that a legitimate case can be made that Sean Elliot was the best player in Arizona history - for a carreer at least. I thought he was awesome as a frosh, too.

But, I think that Ayton is the most talented frosh I've ever seen in an Arizona uniform, and one of the best I've ever seen, period.

I also think that Ayton can be better utilized - as in the last 7 minutes of the ASU game - than he has been throughout the,season. The more that happens, the better Arizona's prospects in the tourney.

I do see a potential for the Cats to have a post-season resurrectipn similar to Danny Manning and KU in 1988 final four.

A one and done is just apples and oranges with a four year guy when judging a career. You just can't do the things in one year that you can do in four. So, either there's some prorating of Ayton or Elliott or this is really just saying Elliott is better because he stayed longer.

That's why, in comparing their freshman years, Elliott was very good. Ayton is otherworldly. Elliott was a good NBA player. Ayton could be an all time great.

Ayton is a generational guy. He's someone you feel like you'll be an irritating old person telling kids about how you saw him live in college when you were young(er). Sean Elliott is Arizona's best four year player. Comparing him to Ayton isn't fair to either.

Better comparisons with Ayton are Bibby, Lauri, maybe AG.

Let's put it this way: AZ has never had a freshman win POY. And the last Pac player to do it was Love.

I'd pay good money to see Hansen get into a cage full of hungry lions.

rgdeuce wrote:I'd pay good money to see Hansen get into a cage full of hungry lions.

Start a GoFundMe page. I will chip in.

rgdeuce wrote:I'd pay good money to see Hansen get into a cage full of hungry lions.

He'd probably just talk about how the Colosseum was better. "Back in those days, they threw way more than one guy to the lions. It was basically a buffet, compared to gristle today. Gristle is still good though, because I like to end all commentary with a backhanded compliment."

What are the odds we go out exactly like last year with our best player not touching the ball for the last 10 minutes?

Deandre Ayton has ‘surpassed expectations’ at Arizona

When Sean Miller first spoke publicly about Deandre Ayton, he set the bar astronomically high for the Bahamian big man.

“I’m not gonna sugarcoat it,” the Arizona Wildcats coach said after Ayton signed his National Letter of Intent in November 2016, “he’s one of these once-in-a-generation types of players.

“Whoever the experts are that have him potentially as the number one player in his class, that’s how we look at him. That’s how I look at him.”

Fast forward 15 months and Ayton has been even better than Miller expected. Yeah, somehow that’s possible.

Ayton is averaging 19.7 points, 10.9 rebounds, 1.9 blocks, and even 1.5 assists as a freshman, while shooting 61 percent from the field.

https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketbal ... -mock-2018" target="_blank

HiCat wrote:
Ayton is averaging 19.7 points, 10.9 rebounds, 1.9 blocks, and even 1.5 assists as a freshman, while shooting 61 percent from the field.

value

Lol. Yeah, that’s some value added.

97cats wrote:

HiCat wrote:
Ayton is averaging 19.7 points, 10.9 rebounds, 1.9 blocks, and even 1.5 assists as a freshman, while shooting 61 percent from the field.

value

Someone used the Love comparison. Ayton is better than Love in every category except assists and 3 point percentage.

Ayton is producing at historic levels despite drawing constant doubles, people hammering him all the time and him still figuring out how dominant he can be. Love was more of a finished product as a frosh. Ayton makes you drool over his potential.

If we win it all this year, does Ayton get a spot on the AZ hoops Mt. Rushmore?

Beachcat97 wrote:If we win it all this year, does Ayton get a spot on the AZ hoops Mt. Rushmore?

Even if we don't win it all, I think he's in that conversation.

He does if he goes #1 as he should.

Something no other UA player has ever done.

If Ayton doesn’t go #1, I’d hate to be the GM who passes on him.

Beachcat97 wrote:If Ayton doesn’t go #1, I’d hate to be the GM who passes on him.

The crazy thing about this year's draft is that I understand why Bagley and Doncic are legit options. Any normal year, Ayton would be an easy #1, but this year the top three are all really, really good players. Then there's Bamba at 4 who's a future DPOY contender. Thus draft is loaded.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:If Ayton doesn’t go #1, I’d hate to be the GM who passes on him.

The crazy thing about this year's draft is that I understand why Bagley and Doncic are legit options. Any normal year, Ayton would be an easy #1, but this year the top three are all really, really good players. Then there's Bamba at 4 who's a future DPOY contender. Thus draft is loaded.

All true. But...we’re talking about a 7’1 athletic freak who can already shoot pretty well from 15 feet in. As others have put it here, he’s a generational player. Not sure the same is true of Bagley and Doncic. Those who pass on Ayton will be sorry.

Beachcat97 wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:If Ayton doesn’t go #1, I’d hate to be the GM who passes on him.

The crazy thing about this year's draft is that I understand why Bagley and Doncic are legit options. Any normal year, Ayton would be an easy #1, but this year the top three are all really, really good players. Then there's Bamba at 4 who's a future DPOY contender. Thus draft is loaded.

All true. But...we’re talking about a 7’1 athletic freak who can already shoot pretty well from 15 feet in. As others have put it here, he’s a generational player. Not sure the same is true of Bagley and Doncic. Those who pass on Ayton will be sorry.

Yeah, but Doncic is basically Klay Thompson with better handles/vision. Bagley is similarly one of those size/agility blends. I said Ayton was generational, and I meant it. I just think Bagley is on that level, and Doncic is a lower ceiling guy, but someone who you think will be an all star 10-15 times almost automatically.

Count me among those who think Doncic is being radically overvalued. Klay Thompson? Seriously? I doubt you actually believe that, Spiff.

Beachcat97 wrote:Count me among those who think Doncic is being radically overvalued. Klay Thompson? Seriously? I doubt you actually believe that, Spiff.

That was actually the comparison I came up with after viewing his highlights. Look, I've only seen highlights, but he has a smooth shot, great size and the handle/vision of a pg.

I used Klay bc my big knock would be that he's athletic, but not crazy explosive. A good, not great athlete.

Again, I've only seen highlights and player breakdowns, but I don't think those are overstated.

I honestly wouldnt compare Doncic to Klay at all.

Doncic is a wing/forward who can actually run an offense, run the PNR as well as any draft-eligible guard in recent memory, rebounds well, and has a shot that should be plus with deep range with more development. Klay is a better athlete, much better defender, better shooter, and probably close to the same size (without looking it up).

Pretty difficult for me to come up with a comparison. Some sort of a shorter cross between Hedo/Odom but the ability to be the primary initiator in a spread PNR with PG-like passing precision, feel, IQ. The question is how quickly does his shot develop and can he get improve defensively, at least as a team defender? Hes perfect for today's style, because you can easily slot him on the wing with another lead guard. In fact, I think that is how he reaches his ceiling.

TucsonClip wrote: Hes perfect for today's style, because you can easily slot him on the wing with another lead guard. In fact, I think that is how he reaches his ceiling.

I agree that his game seems well-suited for today's NBA. But if that's the best compliment you can pay the guy, there's no way he's a #1 pick. Best case scenario is that he's a solid starter for a lot of years. He's not going to be an All-Star. I guess we'll have to see who actually picks first. But my God, even if it's a team with a good center, draft Ayton and then trade him to one of the other 25+ teams who'd probably give up a LOT to get him.

Beachcat97 wrote:

TucsonClip wrote: Hes perfect for today's style, because you can easily slot him on the wing with another lead guard. In fact, I think that is how he reaches his ceiling.

I agree that his game seems well-suited for today's NBA. But if that's the best compliment you can pay the guy, there's no way he's a #1 pick. Best case scenario is that he's a solid starter for a lot of years. He's not going to be an All-Star. I guess we'll have to see who actually picks first. But my God, even if it's a team with a good center, draft Ayton and then trade him to one of the other 25+ teams who'd probably give up a LOT to get him.

Did you read my opinion of him (granted I havent seen as much as I would like) above that? Because you left all of that out.

My opinion isnt that he needs a lead guard, but the dude is going to develop much easier/quicker with one. Hes as good in the PNR as any guard you can name coming out of college. He's also a 6'8 wing. Thats extremely rare. However, he struggles at times when teams force him to isolate, which is why a lead guard would be beneficiary. Not to mention, he could be lethal as a spot up shooter as well. So he now gives you all kinds of ways to deploy his skills. Running an offense, spotting up, secondary ball handling actions, ect.

Not trying to act like im on a soapbox here, because I havent seen him enough to feel that comfortable with my breakdown. However, I do love Doncic. But... there is no way I would pass on Ayton.

TucsonClip wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:

TucsonClip wrote: Not trying to act like im on a soapbox here, because I havent seen him enough to feel that comfortable with my breakdown. However, I do love Doncic. But... there is no way I would pass on Ayton.

I get you, TC. I'm just not in love with Doncic the way others are. Where some see Ginobli, I see David Lee. Lee's had a nice career, and he'd probably go higher than a lot of people ahead of him if they re-did the '05 draft, but he never changed a franchise. Ayton, Bagley, Bamba...I'd take them all ahead of Doncic.