Bear Down Wildcats

The only new things we haven’t known for years is that the NCAA would be upset about not getting the Steptoe report even though they were at all the meetings

Choo does it say what the other two level 1s are? We got the 2 against Miller and swim coach and 1 against university. Thx

PHXCATS wrote:The only new things we haven’t known for years is that the NCAA would be upset about not getting the Steptoe report even though they were at all the meetings

Also says they're holding it against Arizona that Mark Phelps and Book didn't cooperate with the NCAA after they were let go from Arizona. So the NCAA is holding Arizona responsible for the actions of former employees after they were no longer employees, which is PETTTTTTTYYYY.

Fwiw Scheer is saying Phelps did cooperate, so that's bunk.

NickyBCats wrote:Choo does it say what the other two level 1s are? We got the 2 against Miller and swim coach and 1 against university. Thx

I don't know any more than you do on this brother. So far only one is against Miller, which was the one we were all expecting, as far as I can tell.

Is Ayton even mentioned?

ChooChooCat wrote:

NickyBCats wrote:Choo does it say what the other two level 1s are? We got the 2 against Miller and swim coach and 1 against university. Thx

I don't know any more than you do on this brother. So far only one is against Miller, which was the one we were all expecting, as far as I can tell.

Yep just the one and it can easily be fought

Alieberman wrote:Is Ayton even mentioned?

Not in what was leaked

Alieberman wrote:Is Ayton even mentioned?

The entire report wasn't leaked yet, just the level of violations.

UAEebs86 wrote:

This is my read on it too. They likely didn't get what they wanted on Rawle, which is why they're mad that Book didn't talk to them, which once again isn't Arizona's fault. The Phelps shit is just silly if Shareef O'Neal has been cleared since day one (at a better academic university), so that one likely went nowhere as well. Maybe they hit us for Phelps lending (keyword) Keanu Pinder some cash for a plane ticket to go to a friend's wedding when he was already enrolled at Arizona.

ChooChooCat wrote:

UAEebs86 wrote:

This is my read on it too. They likely didn't get what they wanted on Rawle, which is why they're mad that Book didn't talk to them, which once again isn't Arizona's fault. The Phelps shit is just silly if Shareef O'Neal has been cleared since day one (at a better academic university), so that one likely went nowhere as well. Maybe they hit us for Phelps lending (keyword) Keanu Pinder some cash for a plane ticket to go to a friend's wedding when he was already enrolled at Arizona.

Which Phelps was already punished for

If this is it then I'm disappointed. Dick Vitale will never sext us Wildcat fans his special erection.

What happened with the swim team?

Serious question: is it possible this is Miller's final season as our coach? Maybe it's too early to really have a read on this, but this is the question my AZ alum friends have been texting me all weekend, some with a hint of anticipation.

Does the team's performance this year have any bearing on the Miller decision? Does missing the tourney give administration the cover they need to make a move, provided they're leaning in that direction? On the other hand, does getting far in the tourney buy him a few more years?

Beachcat97 wrote:Serious question: is it possible this is Miller's final season as our coach? Maybe it's too early to really have a read on this, but this is the question my AZ alum friends have been texting me all weekend, some with a hint of anticipation.

Does the team's performance this year have any bearing on the Miller decision? Does missing the tourney give administration the cover they need to make a move, provided they're leaning in that direction? On the other hand, does getting far in the tourney buy him a few more years?

Oh absolutely it's possible. He's down to one more year on his contract after this year and you have to either extend the guy or can him, there's no in between. I suppose Heeke/Robbins can be absolutely moronically stupid and make Miller a lame duck coaching on a one year contract, but that'd be one of the dumbest things you'd ever see an athletic department ever do. Ultimately I think the guy has to prove he's the one to carry us out of this mess and if the team this year and the future looks promising then they probably extend him. If it doesn't look good then you have all the reasons you need to move on. The final outcome on the penalties though will dictate a lot though, namely the level of coach we could attract to replace Sean if it comes to that.

Choo's last comment is what I believe will be the ultimate decider. Do Heeke and Robbins really believe they can get a coach not only with Miller's resume but also find someone who has embraced the program legacy and community as much as Miller has? At this point can they really find someone with the same passion for Arizona basketball, recruit on an elite level and put the team - for the most part - year in and year out in a position to make a deep March run?

I think they keep Miller. Just get the feeling the way they have supported him up to this point means they are all in on Miller unless something disastrous or more scandalous happens that leaves them with no choice.

Like going 4-24 or he and Ayton opened up a secret slush fund account in the Bahamas.

ChooChooCat wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:Serious question: is it possible this is Miller's final season as our coach? Maybe it's too early to really have a read on this, but this is the question my AZ alum friends have been texting me all weekend, some with a hint of anticipation.

Does the team's performance this year have any bearing on the Miller decision? Does missing the tourney give administration the cover they need to make a move, provided they're leaning in that direction? On the other hand, does getting far in the tourney buy him a few more years?

Oh absolutely it's possible. He's down to one more year on his contract after this year and you have to either extend the guy or can him, there's no in between. I suppose Heeke/Robbins can be absolutely moronically stupid and make Miller a lame duck coaching on a one year contract, but that'd be one of the dumbest things you'd ever see an athletic department ever do. Ultimately I think the guy has to prove he's the one to carry us out of this mess and if the team this year and the future looks promising then they probably extend him. If it doesn't look good then you have all the reasons you need to move on. The final outcome on the penalties though will dictate a lot though, namely the level of coach we could attract to replace Sean if it comes to that.

Thanks, Choo. Appreciate the insight, as always.

So who leaked it? FOIA request went thru? Did Greg Hansen throw a massive party and was too hung over to cover this?

Jefe wrote:So who leaked it? FOIA request went thru? Did Greg Hansen throw a massive party and was too hung over to cover this?

Arizona strategically leaked some of it through their outside council

PHXCATS wrote:

Jefe wrote:So who leaked it? FOIA request went thru? Did Greg Hansen throw a massive party and was too hung over to cover this?

Arizona strategically leaked some of it through their outside council

No, they didn't.

ChooChooCat wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:

Jefe wrote:So who leaked it? FOIA request went thru? Did Greg Hansen throw a massive party and was too hung over to cover this?

Arizona strategically leaked some of it through their outside council

No, they didn't.

How did the Athletic get it then?

ABOR took no action today on Miller. https://247sports.com/college/arizona/A ... 27S6XJVP0Y" target="_blank

PHXCATS wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:

Jefe wrote:So who leaked it? FOIA request went thru? Did Greg Hansen throw a massive party and was too hung over to cover this?

Arizona strategically leaked some of it through their outside council

No, they didn't.

How did the Athletic get it then?

If Arizona didn't give it to Seth Davis, then who do you think did?

ChooChooCat wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:

Jefe wrote:So who leaked it? FOIA request went thru? Did Greg Hansen throw a massive party and was too hung over to cover this?

Arizona strategically leaked some of it through their outside council

No, they didn't.

How did the Athletic get it then?

If Arizona didn't give it to Seth Davis, then who do you think did?

I have seen and heard from multiple places that Davis got it from the attorney but if you know or have reason to believe different I will defer to your knowledge on it

Schlabach had the wrong coach, the wrong kid, the wrong shoe company, the wrong school, the right dollar amount. He heard the story about paying a kid 100k, and heard that there was a wiretap on an Arizona coach and decided in his imagination the two were the same story. He yolo'ed on it and was wrong. And his sorry amateur ass and the disgrace that is espn refuse to admit it.

ChooChooCat wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:

Jefe wrote:So who leaked it? FOIA request went thru? Did Greg Hansen throw a massive party and was too hung over to cover this?

Arizona strategically leaked some of it through their outside council

No, they didn't.

How did the Athletic get it then?

If Arizona didn't give it to Seth Davis, then who do you think did?

Sure would like to know as I am not smart enough to figure it out. My only guess would be Vitale who seems to be in cahoots with the NCAA

Trying to sort this out and stay caught up. So are most here still of the opinion that Miller's only wrongdoing here was ignorance of Book's recruiting tactics? Or are some of you thinking Miller was more aware than we've been led to believe?

I've given Miller the benefit of the doubt again and again. But if we're being honest, I'm not sure how objective I tend to be with AZ hoops.

From the article, it doesn't sound like Davis has seen the source material and was instead provided with a general description (via text or phone). Similar to Schlabach's article (though I won't continue the parallel to say that its equally fallacious).

Beachcat97 wrote:Trying to sort this out and stay caught up. So are most here still of the opinion that Miller's only wrongdoing here was ignorance of Book's recruiting tactics? Or are some of you thinking Miller was more aware than we've been led to believe?

I've given Miller the benefit of the doubt again and again. But if we're being honest, I'm not sure how objective I tend to be with AZ hoops.

Miller certainly didn't know what Book was up to - he wouldn't have allowed Book to go take a bribe from some dude they didn't know that was funded by Adidas money.

Does Miller know about Nike money that helps us secure recruits? I think we're all past the *wink wink* stage - yes, of course he does. That's the case for all of the major recruits to all of the major programs. Whether it is payments to players or economic opportunity for parents or further funding for their AAU director... the shoe companies make sure they're corralling talent under their umbrella of programs (AAU, HS, NCAA).

As far as these allegations - we need to see the NOA to see the evidence and specific accusations.

But if there was more than just what we know about Book (plus with the "obstruction" and institutional control charges against the program)... I'm for goddamn sure there'd be an ESPN / Yahoo / Athletic frenzy over it. That "validating" info for the credulous Arizona doomsayers would be out immediately, plastered wall to wall.

Beachcat97 wrote:Trying to sort this out and stay caught up. So are most here still of the opinion that Miller's only wrongdoing here was ignorance of Book's recruiting tactics? Or are some of you thinking Miller was more aware than we've been led to believe?

I've given Miller the benefit of the doubt again and again. But if we're being honest, I'm not sure how objective I tend to be with AZ hoops.

What players did Book pay to come to Arizona?

So will we take the full 90 days to craft an appeal or will we fire that out quickly and start the wheels turning with the independent council?

I guess my question is: why does UofA have to volunteer to make itself the scapegoat -- ie: by firing Miller -- when all these other coaches/programs roll right along? If AZ were the only program doing this, I'd understand. But we're talking about Kansas, Louisville, Duke, USC, UNC...rules are being broken all over the place.

On the other hand, if Miller can't get us to the tourney and reach the thresholds we expect at AZ, that's another matter altogether. If the program isn't contending for a Pac title by next season, then I could see his seat warming up. But not over this bribery bullshit.

If Miller gets the team to perform and start getting shit back on track with fan expectations he will be the coach. If not he will be replaced. I doubt he is fired bc of this scandal. My opinion is he is beginning to right the ship.

So basically The media is reporting Arizona getting 5 level 1 violations. However, only 4 are for basketball. People remember the Ayton story and assume Arizona is getting violations for paying recruits.

When in reality...Arizona is getting in trouble for Book accepting a bribe for pushing players to a certain agency after leaving college. The allegations from NCAA are not for paying a recruit or player...but that is what everyone assumes is happening because of the bullshit Ayton story.

In this part of the country, everyone believes that to be the case and it is infuriating.

Well I think Choo said he wouldn’t he fired for the FBI BS but rather for poor on court performance. He has said this is an important year for Miller more than a few times. Not sure how we evaluate that performance in a year that is so sideways as 2020 is though.

azcat49 wrote:So will we take the full 90 days to craft an appeal or will we fire that out quickly and start the wheels turning with the independent council?

They're going to go through IARP. The downside there is if they lose there's no appeal, every decision is final.

http://www.ncaa.org/themes-topics/iarp" target="_blank

This will likely drag on for another 2 years or so at minimum, unfortunate because this cloud hanging over the program even longer is really bad.

I think Kansas and almost all programs are fighting this through IARP, except OK St

I can't see Miller getting fired since the UofA and many schools are hurting financially due to the pandemic. Even Sumlin won't be fired.

I think the number of appeals to the NCAA’s ruling is somewhere in the 40 range (it may be 20 and I’m dumb) and only 6 were overturned. So IARP, although questionable how it’ll go, is literally a better option.

IndianaZonaFan wrote:So basically The media is reporting Arizona getting 5 level 1 violations. However, only 4 are for basketball. People remember the Ayton story and assume Arizona is getting violations for paying recruits.

When in reality...Arizona is getting in trouble for Book accepting a bribe for pushing players to a certain agency after leaving college. The allegations from NCAA are not for paying a recruit or player...but that is what everyone assumes is happening because of the bullshit Ayton story.

In this part of the country, everyone believes that to be the case and it is infuriating.

Only 2 are against the bball program I believe (maybe it’s 3), one is definitely against the swimming program, and the rest is against the University itself.

YoDeFoe wrote:From the article, it doesn't sound like Davis has seen the source material and was instead provided with a general description (via text or phone). Similar to Schlabach's article (though I won't continue the parallel to say that its equally fallacious).

All that was linked to Davis was the University’s lawyer’s response to the NOA that was sent to the NCAA.

So then in theory we don’t have to answer to the NCAA other than we are going the IARP route. We then forward all we have (like the 1.5m investigation info) and anything else (info such as O’Neil and Alkins being cleared and our assistants meeting with the NCAA to answer question) Pertaining to the case and wait for a final finding. Just seems odd it would take two years. I would think 2 months

Beachcat97 wrote:Trying to sort this out and stay caught up. So are most here still of the opinion that Miller's only wrongdoing here was ignorance of Book's recruiting tactics? Or are some of you thinking Miller was more aware than we've been led to believe?

I've given Miller the benefit of the doubt again and again. But if we're being honest, I'm not sure how objective I tend to be with AZ hoops.

What can you prove BeachCat? I don’t give a damn what you think Miller knew or didn’t, that is literally irrelevant. What can you prove he knew?

azcat49 wrote:So then in theory we don’t have to answer to the NCAA other than we are going the IARP route. We then forward all we have (like the 1.5m investigation info) and anything else (info such as O’Neil and Alkins being cleared and our assistants meeting with the NCAA to answer question) Pertaining to the case and wait for a final finding. Just seems odd it would take two years. I would think 2 months

Remember we’re also behind Kansas, NC State, Memphis, etc., etc., in the IARP line. Those schools chose the IARP wayyyyy before we have, so yeah that’s the hold up.

IndianaZonaFan wrote:So basically The media is reporting Arizona getting 5 level 1 violations. However, only 4 are for basketball. People remember the Ayton story and assume Arizona is getting violations for paying recruits.

When in reality...Arizona is getting in trouble for Book accepting a bribe for pushing players to a certain agency after leaving college. The allegations from NCAA are not for paying a recruit or player...but that is what everyone assumes is happening because of the bullshit Ayton story.

In this part of the country, everyone believes that to be the case and it is infuriating.

100% spot on

100% the right call

Can present the arguments of Miller did everything he could at the time once he knew and that there were procedures in place to keep compliant but Book on his own went against it and that the media and NCAA are out against Arizona more than any other school because espn got all butthurt that yahoo scooped them with the Michigan State story earlier that Friday

ChooChooCat wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:Trying to sort this out and stay caught up. So are most here still of the opinion that Miller's only wrongdoing here was ignorance of Book's recruiting tactics? Or are some of you thinking Miller was more aware than we've been led to believe?

I've given Miller the benefit of the doubt again and again. But if we're being honest, I'm not sure how objective I tend to be with AZ hoops.

What can you prove BeachCat? I don’t give a damn what you think Miller knew or didn’t, that is literally irrelevant. What can you prove he knew?

Can't prove anything. And I've maintained all along that it would make zero sense for Miller to look us all in the eye and lie about all this. If he were somehow culpable or otherwise implicated, I think we'd know by now.

So all I really care about at this point is whether he can get us contending for league titles again sooner than later.

So even though Pasternack was at the meeting, he did not take the bait and is completely in the clear. Talk about dodging a bullet. I would hope he pulled Book aside afterwards and told him to stay clear of Dawkins. I would also think he told Miller all about that meeting. Did we already cover this? haha

Jefe wrote:So even though Pasternack was at the meeting, he did not take the bait and is completely in the clear. Talk about dodging a bullet. I would hope he pulled Book aside afterwards and told him to stay clear of Dawkins. I would also think he told Miller all about that meeting. Did we already cover this? haha

Common regulatory compliance understandings:

If Pasternack did not immediately notify CSM and/or internal compliance staff, he is as guilty of the infraction as Book.

If he did inform CSM, then any delay by CSM 1) to notify internal compliance staff and/or failure to enact discipline on Book would constitute violations for CSM.