Bear Down Wildcats

Lol. Love it ev!

Longhorned wrote:

gumby wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:I know everyone's gonna laugh but pinder has been the X factor for us. He's going to be a solid player and fan favorite for upcoming season.

I blame trier trying to get his more than anything, but that's ok, he's earned it and producing.

Not laughing. Agree.

I asked in the game thread if it's just my imagination, or is Pinder just really good? I feel like we're supposed to say he's a limited player with frustrating mental breakdowns, but shows effort as a junkyard dog. But in addition to all that, I keep seeing flashes where he makes his own offense and shows body control and a smooth touch in finishing on contested shots in motion within 5 feet.

And it's not just that he shows no fear. Clearly, he has no fear. That's not his game face. He's actually that guy. Wakes up, can't find his tooth brush, pulls the sink out of the wall, and eats an entire cold meatloaf. He's exactly what you want against high seed, white collar teams in the tourney.

I like Pinder, but he has two significant limitations. The first is that his offense is dunks, layups and inside 5 foot shots. Beyond that, he's not doing anything. Second is that he's not quick enough to guard a 3 and too small to man up a good post.

This automatically imposes a limit on his game. He can absolutely bring something with effort and is our best choice vs a quick 4, but those two limitations...he has to be a guy who plays a limited role and maybe pops up once during the NCAA's in a time of need. Asking for more than that puts him in a role that I don't think he's cut out for.

On PJC, having him be a steady shooter and contributor is big. He'll never really be a star pg, but he can be a legit contributor and with Kobi stepping back, if he brings it every night, you feel good that there are 4 consistent perimeter producers.

CalStateTempe wrote:Lol. Love it ev!

It's funny to see my moniker shortened like that. For the first time, I see where I could be mistaken as an Evan or Ev (Meacham....uhhh)....

East Valley Cat. But that seemed like too much to say...

That would be a good thread elsewhere...the best "Motherfuckers" at Arizona. Wayne Womack, Gene, Rick Anderson....we've had a few. Court motherfuckers, not just bad guys. No Chris Rodgers...

EVCat wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:Lol. Love it ev!

It's funny to see my moniker shortened like that. For the first time, I see where I could be mistaken as an Evan or Ev (Meacham....uhhh)....

East Valley Cat. But that seemed like too much to say...

That would be a good thread elsewhere...the best "Motherfuckers" at Arizona. Wayne Womack, Gene, Rick Anderson....we've had a few. Court motherfuckers, not just bad guys. No Chris Rodgers...

I always assumed your name was Evan too!

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Longhorned wrote:

gumby wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:I know everyone's gonna laugh but pinder has been the X factor for us. He's going to be a solid player and fan favorite for upcoming season.

I blame trier trying to get his more than anything, but that's ok, he's earned it and producing.

Not laughing. Agree.

I asked in the game thread if it's just my imagination, or is Pinder just really good? I feel like we're supposed to say he's a limited player with frustrating mental breakdowns, but shows effort as a junkyard dog. But in addition to all that, I keep seeing flashes where he makes his own offense and shows body control and a smooth touch in finishing on contested shots in motion within 5 feet.

And it's not just that he shows no fear. Clearly, he has no fear. That's not his game face. He's actually that guy. Wakes up, can't find his tooth brush, pulls the sink out of the wall, and eats an entire cold meatloaf. He's exactly what you want against high seed, white collar teams in the tourney.

I like Pinder, but he has two significant limitations. The first is that his offense is dunks, layups and inside 5 foot shots. Beyond that, he's not doing anything. Second is that he's not quick enough to guard a 3 and too small to man up a good post.

This automatically imposes a limit on his game. He can absolutely bring something with effort and is our best choice vs a quick 4, but those two limitations...he has to be a guy who plays a limited role and maybe pops up once during the NCAA's in a time of need. Asking for more than that puts him in a role that I don't think he's cut out for.

My takeaway from watching decades of tourney games is the great importance of bench players (who all have severe limitations, even on 1-seed teams) who slip through the cracks of the opposing team's game plan long enough before they're able to exploit his weaknesses. Pinder has limitations but he brings toughness, rim protection, rebounding, and a surprising knack for scoring in the paint. When it comes to what he's good at, he's good.

Longhorned wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Longhorned wrote:

gumby wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:I know everyone's gonna laugh but pinder has been the X factor for us. He's going to be a solid player and fan favorite for upcoming season.

I blame trier trying to get his more than anything, but that's ok, he's earned it and producing.

Not laughing. Agree.

I asked in the game thread if it's just my imagination, or is Pinder just really good? I feel like we're supposed to say he's a limited player with frustrating mental breakdowns, but shows effort as a junkyard dog. But in addition to all that, I keep seeing flashes where he makes his own offense and shows body control and a smooth touch in finishing on contested shots in motion within 5 feet.

And it's not just that he shows no fear. Clearly, he has no fear. That's not his game face. He's actually that guy. Wakes up, can't find his tooth brush, pulls the sink out of the wall, and eats an entire cold meatloaf. He's exactly what you want against high seed, white collar teams in the tourney.

I like Pinder, but he has two significant limitations. The first is that his offense is dunks, layups and inside 5 foot shots. Beyond that, he's not doing anything. Second is that he's not quick enough to guard a 3 and too small to man up a good post.

This automatically imposes a limit on his game. He can absolutely bring something with effort and is our best choice vs a quick 4, but those two limitations...he has to be a guy who plays a limited role and maybe pops up once during the NCAA's in a time of need. Asking for more than that puts him in a role that I don't think he's cut out for.

My takeaway from watching decades of tourney games is the great importance of bench players (who all have severe limitations, even on 1-seed teams) who slip through the cracks of the opposing team's game plan long enough before they're able to exploit his weaknesses. Pinder has limitations but he brings toughness, rim protection, rebounding, and a surprising knack for scoring in the paint. When it comes to what he's good at, he's good.

I don't disagree. If we only need Pinder to be important in one tourney game...well, every tourney game is an elimination game. Having a bench energy guy who overperforms in one game can be the difference between an early exit and a deep run.

Do enjoy watching Pinder play, and know he will never get any plays called for him, but his scoring the last 5 games have been 0, 3, 2, DNP, 0.

Any defense will just lay off him and clog the paint.

PJC is playing the best basketball of his life right now. He was flat out awesome tonight.

Chicat wrote:PJC is playing the best basketball of his life right now. He was flat out awesome tonight.

This. Nothing more need be said

His defense looked good all night. Great awareness, leadership, and composure. A true Sean Miller coached PG playing best when it matters most

Three killer steals. Wow.

Dude was Mighty Mouse.....He's really coming into his own right now.....and at the perfect time too. Bear Down PJC!

EVCat wrote:Pinder is best in a game like this with athletic bigs and lots of perimeter shots. He is much better at getting loose rebounds than Dusan and Chance. You lose a piece on offense and you don't want it to be your primary look, but 12 to 15 of Pinder on the floor harassing Leaf or Welsh and getting on the floor...being our motherfucker...would be nice. This team lacks a real motherfucker...a Gene Edgerson or Rick Anderson. It's a role that Pinder could take if he wants it. It's a path to the floor, and in a 3 game in 3 day tournament, we need to find lift and extra minutes where we can.

I think I found our motherfucker with about 0.9 secs left in the UCLA game!!!!

Don't bring the ball down to his level ...... lightning quick hands.

The starting lineup tomorrow better be :

PJC
Trier
Allen
Alkins
Lauri

PennZona20 wrote:Don't bring the ball down to his level ...... lightning quick hands.

The starting lineup tomorrow better be :

PJC
Trier
Allen
Alkins
Lauri

We can only hope

IndianaZonaFan wrote:

EVCat wrote:Pinder is best in a game like this with athletic bigs and lots of perimeter shots. He is much better at getting loose rebounds than Dusan and Chance. You lose a piece on offense and you don't want it to be your primary look, but 12 to 15 of Pinder on the floor harassing Leaf or Welsh and getting on the floor...being our motherfucker...would be nice. This team lacks a real motherfucker...a Gene Edgerson or Rick Anderson. It's a role that Pinder could take if he wants it. It's a path to the floor, and in a 3 game in 3 day tournament, we need to find lift and extra minutes where we can.

I think I found our motherfucker with about 0.9 secs left in the UCLA game!!!!

filthy language.

really? I like high motor guy. Not so much into motherfucker, motherfucker, motherfucker but that is Ev cat...is so much motherfucker guy. Pinder should be our motherfucker, Ristic should be a mottherfucker...E.E was a motherfucker! Sickens me to no end, such filth,
filth. and, I am leaving here. bye, can't do this anymore.

He should come off the bench. If anyone should start the next game it's Pinder, and you put him on Brooks. . I personally think you keep this rotation that got you there

Ehh, I dunno. We need to worry about scoring too and basically playing 4 on 5 against a great defensive team who is still going to put points up no matter how well we defend is a recipe for trouble. What makes me feel good about today's game is how well we have been shooting from outside the last two games. Keep pace and defend the best we can, and put yourself in position at the end to be the one to make the big plays/get the big stops and win.

Personally, Id start Chance and move Lauri to the 5 when that Oregon lineup gets smaller. That wont happen though.

For all the criticism and concern about PJC, some warranted obviously, how many teams in the NCAA have an upperclassmen PG coming off the bench and playing at the level PJC has been and bringing what he does?

PJC went from goat to hitting those two huge 3s and having a couple real nice hustle plays. Ill almost forgive those late foul line misses

The rebound he grabbed near the end of the game when Oregon was charging may have been his best play of the game.

My favorite players are usually not the most physically gifted, it's the guys that maximize their talents. PJC is giving us everything he can right now and it's wonderful to see

http://tucson.com/sports/" target="_blank

Alieberman wrote:The rebound he grabbed near the end of the game when Oregon was charging may have been his best play of the game.

My favorite players are usually not the most physically gifted, it's the guys that maximize their talents. PJC is giving us everything he can right now and it's wonderful to see

Monster rebound. And hit an enormous three to stem one of the Duck charges.

gumby wrote:

Alieberman wrote:The rebound he grabbed near the end of the game when Oregon was charging may have been his best play of the game.

My favorite players are usually not the most physically gifted, it's the guys that maximize their talents. PJC is giving us everything he can right now and it's wonderful to see

Monster rebound. And hit an enormous three to stem one of the Duck charges.

Didn't two of his 3's stem Duck charges?

"A giant among shriveling midgets." -- Bill Walton

Longhorned wrote:

gumby wrote:

Alieberman wrote:The rebound he grabbed near the end of the game when Oregon was charging may have been his best play of the game.

My favorite players are usually not the most physically gifted, it's the guys that maximize their talents. PJC is giving us everything he can right now and it's wonderful to see

Monster rebound. And hit an enormous three to stem one of the Duck charges.

Didn't two of his 3's stem Duck charges?

He had a two off the glass that was sweet as well during that Duck run.

With what Miller has done with tj and pjc is only a matter of time too we get a Ball type pg in an Arizona uniform.

Certainly makes sense as he was a high level PG as well. We have become "wing U" a bit because that is where there is a glut of elite college basketball players. But our main guy is a PG of the highest order at the college level and I imagine he has plenty to offer in that development. We've had different reasons for our PG struggles and missed on "can't miss" prospects. But when Miller has a player to mold at PG, he has

A guy like Ball will never come to Arizona because every player, no matter how good, has to fit into the system. If you aren't willing to play harder on defense and run the called offensive plays you won't see the floor. But I do think we will see improved talent coming in at PG with the success of guys like TJ and Kadeem. Call me crazy but I'd rather see the next TJ than the next Ball in an Arizona uniform

Lonzo Ball would have thrived here and he can defend. You look at who he plays for and still have a hard time picking out things you dont like about the kid. Ball would have won conference POY had he come to Arizona.

Lonzo Ball is special and unlike any player in a long time.

Most point guards are like Frank Jackson, Tyler Ulis, De'Aaron Fox, Tyus Jones etc. And they all choose UK, Duke, KU. Miller has to be able to get a couple and put them in the pros so he has a history of putting guards in the NBA. Then they'll flock.

rgdeuce wrote:Lonzo Ball would have thrived here and he can defend. You look at who he plays for and still have a hard time picking out things you dont like about the kid. Ball would have won conference POY had he come to Arizona.

Absolutely, could have defended. But the question is would he? He has been as much a part of UCLA's defensive woes as anyone. And his dad would have never let him go to a school with as structured offense as ours

Lonzo Ball can't catch an airball 3 under the basket with no other player within 5 feet from him.

PJC out-jumps people over a foot taller than him to secure a key rebound.

PJC > LB

baconus66 wrote:

rgdeuce wrote:Lonzo Ball would have thrived here and he can defend. You look at who he plays for and still have a hard time picking out things you dont like about the kid. Ball would have won conference POY had he come to Arizona.

Absolutely, could have defended. But the question is would he? He has been as much a part of UCLA's defensive woes as anyone. And his dad would have never let him go to a school with as structured offense as ours

Yes he would. If there is one ounce of selfish, prima donna is his body, I havent seen it. Amazing when u consider who his dad and coaches are. UCLA and the Balls are an arranged marriage, thats why he is there. I think Lonzo has actualy defended well in the games I have watched and his defensive ceiling certainly is sky high even at the NBA level. His coach just hasnt shown him all the tools in his toolbelt and most of his teammates have no interest in defense, for obvious reasons.

I'll put up a ton of money on Ball eventually being one of the best defensive PGs in the NBA down the road.

NYCat wrote:Lonzo Ball is special and unlike any player in a long time.

Most point guards are like Frank Jackson, Tyler Ulis, De'Aaron Fox, Tyus Jones etc. And they all choose UK, Duke, KU. Miller has to be able to get a couple and put them in the pros so he has a history of putting guards in the NBA. Then they'll flock.

Calipari's style of play is a point guards wet dream because of their freedom to dribble and attack. very fun, which is why he gets all the best point guards. Combine that with knowing you are going to have five star weapons at every position to pass to, its a no brainer. Everyone else though, puzzles me why Miller hasnt stolen any from the other schools, sans Josiah. If the thought is Miller will handcuff you, all you have to do is watch what TJ did and was allowed to do without elite attributes, and he was a guy we had to beg to ahoot a lot of the time

Chicat wrote:PJC is playing the best basketball of his life right now. He was flat out awesome tonight.

He found his role and he's producing the way we want from someone in that role right now. He hit some big shots last night.

rgdeuce wrote: Everyone else though, puzzles me why Miller hasnt stolen any from the other schools, sans Josiah

Josiah debacle the reason?

Self also hasn't landed a top pg since Selby. Graham, and others were mid, low 4*s.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, PJC has fantastic 3 pt shot selection. He never takes the shot if he is guarded tight and is always looking for the open player inside first, but when the D gives him an open shot or the shot clock calls for it he takes it and makes it most of the time. He is very much as mature a player and leader as Kadeem. A senior in everything but name

Most of that is necessity though due to his height and the amount of time he takes to get a shot off.

NYC, I'm not sure Josiah was the issue. Josiah had his moments, but his issue was 100% on him. That's the reason I brought up TJ, it's proof that a point guard has leash at Arizona to play at an All American/Conference POY level.

UAEebs86 wrote:

Longhorned wrote:

gumby wrote:

Alieberman wrote:The rebound he grabbed near the end of the game when Oregon was charging may have been his best play of the game.

My favorite players are usually not the most physically gifted, it's the guys that maximize their talents. PJC is giving us everything he can right now and it's wonderful to see

Monster rebound. And hit an enormous three to stem one of the Duck charges.

Didn't two of his 3's stem Duck charges?

He had a two off the glass that was sweet as well during that Duck run.

Oh yeah. Stop-and-go floater, with the kiss!

Alieberman wrote:Lonzo Ball can't catch an airball 3 under the basket with no other player within 5 feet from him.

PJC out-jumps people over a foot taller than him to secure a key rebound.

PJC > LB

Put PJC on Golden State, put Steph Curry on Arizona. Watch what happens.

I'd call it a wash. Maybe slight edge to Golden State after that swap.

baconus66 wrote:I've said it before and I'll say it again, PJC has fantastic 3 pt shot selection. He never takes the shot if he is guarded tight and is always looking for the open player inside first, but when the D gives him an open shot or the shot clock calls for it he takes it and makes it most of the time. He is very much as mature a player and leader as Kadeem. A senior in everything but name

I'm not sure that isn't height based, as RG says. However, it shouldn't detract from the fact he is making a lot of good decisions right now. Getting nitpicky, the only thing I could have asked for is better responses to the press.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

baconus66 wrote:I've said it before and I'll say it again, PJC has fantastic 3 pt shot selection. He never takes the shot if he is guarded tight and is always looking for the open player inside first, but when the D gives him an open shot or the shot clock calls for it he takes it and makes it most of the time. He is very much as mature a player and leader as Kadeem. A senior in everything but name

I'm not sure that isn't height based, as RG says. However, it shouldn't detract from the fact he is making a lot of good decisions right now. Getting nitpicky, the only thing I could have asked for is better responses to the press.

How does Arizona fix its problems with the press? We need to find a way to 1) inbound without getting trapped in a corner or launching a full-court cannon to Lauri, and 2) taking advantage of a defense that hasn't set.

#2 will be a problem against FSU because they're athletic like Oregon.

Longhorned wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

baconus66 wrote:I've said it before and I'll say it again, PJC has fantastic 3 pt shot selection. He never takes the shot if he is guarded tight and is always looking for the open player inside first, but when the D gives him an open shot or the shot clock calls for it he takes it and makes it most of the time. He is very much as mature a player and leader as Kadeem. A senior in everything but name

I'm not sure that isn't height based, as RG says. However, it shouldn't detract from the fact he is making a lot of good decisions right now. Getting nitpicky, the only thing I could have asked for is better responses to the press.

How does Arizona fix its problems with the press? We need to find a way to 1) inbound without getting trapped in a corner or launching a full-court cannon to Lauri, and 2) taking advantage of a defense that hasn't set.

#2 will be a problem against FSU because they're athletic like Oregon.

I thought we did a better job towards the end of the game attacking the corner trap by dribbling away before it closed or quick passes back to the in bounder.

Still needs some polishing up though I agree.

Longhorned wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

baconus66 wrote:I've said it before and I'll say it again, PJC has fantastic 3 pt shot selection. He never takes the shot if he is guarded tight and is always looking for the open player inside first, but when the D gives him an open shot or the shot clock calls for it he takes it and makes it most of the time. He is very much as mature a player and leader as Kadeem. A senior in everything but name

I'm not sure that isn't height based, as RG says. However, it shouldn't detract from the fact he is making a lot of good decisions right now. Getting nitpicky, the only thing I could have asked for is better responses to the press.

How does Arizona fix its problems with the press? We need to find a way to 1) inbound without getting trapped in a corner or launching a full-court cannon to Lauri, and 2) taking advantage of a defense that hasn't set.

#2 will be a problem against FSU because they're athletic like Oregon.

Thoughts:

1. I don't like inbounding to Parker. That's the easiest time for a D to trap and he can't throw over a trap. I like him much better as a second pass where he can catch heading downcourt. We get stuck inbounding to him as he is headed towards the inbounder. That is a bad start.

2. We don't really have cutters in the middle. If you inbound to the corner, then have the inbounder cut hard down the middle of the court, at worst, he pulls a defender with him. Incidentally, I like Parker for that. Then, if you can't hit that guy, the swing to the guy in the weakside corner is easier.

3. I don't mind a look that includes throwing long. A press wants to push to the endline. Throwing long (or showing you're willing to) has the same effect as football in making the D stay honest. You don't want to do it unless it's there (like it was against Oregon with Lauri) but it has a positive effect.

Other things are just general things like being strong with the ball and staying out of the corners. Just my 2 cents.

Inbounding the ball at the end of games over the last few years causes my blood pressure to rise.

We are horrible at it.

Longhorned wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

baconus66 wrote:I've said it before and I'll say it again, PJC has fantastic 3 pt shot selection. He never takes the shot if he is guarded tight and is always looking for the open player inside first, but when the D gives him an open shot or the shot clock calls for it he takes it and makes it most of the time. He is very much as mature a player and leader as Kadeem. A senior in everything but name

I'm not sure that isn't height based, as RG says. However, it shouldn't detract from the fact he is making a lot of good decisions right now. Getting nitpicky, the only thing I could have asked for is better responses to the press.

How does Arizona fix its problems with the press? We need to find a way to 1) inbound without getting trapped in a corner or launching a full-court cannon to Lauri, and 2) taking advantage of a defense that hasn't set.

#2 will be a problem against FSU because they're athletic like Oregon.

Bill Walton was spot on with his analysis of the situation with Kadeem. He is not a decisive inbounder. We have also used PJC as an inbounder, and obviously his lack of size is an issue when he has someone towering over him, both vision wise and in terms of taking away a pass over top. I think Trier is our best bet to inbound on press. Lauri is dangerous on a return pass and I worry about Rawle getting himself into trouble with a return pass. Teams are playing the middle hard and giving us the corners, which is why we always end up trapped over there. I too am from the school of, if you break the press make them pay, and would like to see a little more aggression when there is an advantage.