Bear Down Wildcats

Longhorned wrote:

gumby wrote:Cats +15 with Parker, best on team. Barcello ... still has the yips. Alkins, bad turnovers. Parker is crucial.

Definitely.

But here’s what I don’t understand. He’s so good at breaking the press, so why doesn’t the team break toward the basket more often for a high percentage shot earlier in the shot clock? I understand that the purpose of that kind of press is to dictate a faster pace that favors ASU, but Arizona just seems to err too much on the side of holding up the ball to allow ASU to set their defense. When that happens, the feisty swarm in the paint makes it harder for our bigs to score or kick out to a shooter.

I was screaming all night for us to make them pay for the press. Fastest way to get them out of it.


I think it's Coach Miller telling him to slow it down.

meh

I must be watching a different game - not today tho will I be a prick, not on New Year’s Eve after that win.

best to everyone in 2018, including ‘Little’ PJC

97cats wrote:meh

I must be watching a different game - not today tho will I be a prick, not on New Year’s Eve after that win.

best to everyone in 2018, including ‘Little’ PJC

97Cats, I watched the same game. We didn't win because of PJC... We won because of Ayton and Trier. PJC played his role and gotta give him props for that.

Also yes he's the best ball handler or pg on the team. That is our biggest weakness and it's Miller's fault not PJC. PJC is what he is. I'm just glad he played his role last night for 90% of the game and didn't try to play outside of himself too much.

it has gotten to the point where 2-7 from the floor, 1-4 from three, 5 points and 5 assists is a great game in the eyes of many for ‘Little’ PJC, as Walton calls him.

Never in the history of Arizona basketball has the bar for what is good or even above average play been manipulated to fit a certain players limitations.

He’s serviceable at best, and was outclassed and outplayed once again yesterday, getting beat off the dribble play after play and being shot right over the top repeatedly for easy baskets.

yes he can break the press and yes he did a fairly good job of protecting the basketball, but he’s a non threat playing non threatening basketball and he gets abused on defense.

I get what Goodman is saying, his stat line last night is exactly depicts the type of impact player he is, nothing sticks out unless you really pull the onion layers back and find that he only committed one turnover, and champion and celebrate that!!!! Oh, and he can break the press!!!

well, there in lies the impact of PJC ...

If he has two more turnovers we lose that game. No doubt in my mind.

If his stat line is 5 points, 4 assists, 3 turnovers, ASU is #1 in the nation when the polls come out. Anybody happy with that outcome?

Not sure why we are discounting his ballhandling and handling pressure. Isn’t that two of the main things we need from a PG?

SMH at people hammering PJC when Rawle was the one who disappeared (save for one nice assist to Ristic) in the second half and had five turnovers.

PJC was the only one who could really handle the press. AT was OK. Alkins, Barcello, Smith, etc. were a hot mess.

Pjc can't attack the rim whatsoever, you would think he'd develop a floater or something

That's why the fast break always stops in a press allowing the defense to get set. He can't finish at the rim or will get blocked so it's obvious he'll pass it out

But this team looks absolutely terrible without two players on the floor, Ayton (obviously) and pjc the other. The teams has looked ok if rawle or Trier aren't doing anything

Would love if he were more aggressive on offense, but he can't attack so taking care of the ball, dishing out assists, and hitting an open 3 or two is the best we'll get

UAEebs86 wrote:SMH at people hammering PJC when Rawle was the one who disappeared (save for one nice assist to Ristic) in the second half and had five turnovers.

PJC was the only one who could really handle the press. AT was OK. Alkins, Barcello, Smith, etc. were a hot mess.

There is a difference between "hammering PJC" and merely pointing out that PJC is not an elite PG. One only has to look at PJC's line last night vs. Holders to understand that there is a vast difference in talent between the two. PJC is undoubtedly our best ball handler and our best PG.........and as a result I think it highly unlikely we get past the Sweet 16 this year. Its not PJC's fault (he is who he is). Miller has simply failed to recruit adequately at the PG position.

Chicat wrote:If he has two more turnovers we lose that game. No doubt in my mind.

If his stat line is 5 points, 4 assists, 3 turnovers, ASU is #1 in the nation when the polls come out. Anybody happy with that outcome?

Not sure why we are discounting his ballhandling and handling pressure. Isn’t that two of the main things we need from a PG?

so he didn’t lose Arizona the game, this is what it’s been relegated to with him, so under that premis he did his job.

but for me, I believe, and it’s my opinion, you need more from your PG who played 32plus mins than just not losing the game for you. At some point he has to make an impactful stamp on a big game outside of just not fucking it up.

Again, my opinion, which I know some share and some don’t.

But, he was not great, he wasn’t even good, he was serviceable in a game whene he needed to be, so props for that, but I know Arizona is going to need more from it’s PG on the road in conf play and in March to reach its highest potential.

If you are looking at stats to determine worth or impact on a game you are doing it wrong

He may not be an all star but he was Damn impressive last night and had a huge positive impact on the game for Arizona

PHXCATS wrote:If you are looking at stats to determine worth or impact on a game you are doing it wrong

good point, so where did he impact the game outside of breaking the press? certainly not on defense or as a threat on offense. He didn’t take control of the game and dictate anything, he fades into the background playing a non threatening game, posing little to no threat and demanding little to no attention from the opposition outside of advancing the ball.

so tell me, where else did he impact the game?

97cats wrote:

Chicat wrote:If he has two more turnovers we lose that game. No doubt in my mind.

If his stat line is 5 points, 4 assists, 3 turnovers, ASU is #1 in the nation when the polls come out. Anybody happy with that outcome?

Not sure why we are discounting his ballhandling and handling pressure. Isn’t that two of the main things we need from a PG?

so he didn’t lose Arizona the game, this is what it’s been relegated to with him, so under that premis he did his job.

but for me, I believe, and it’s my opinion, you need more from your PG who played 32plus mins than just not losing the game for you. At some point he has to make an impactful stamp on a big game outside of just not fucking it up.

Again, my opinion, which I know some share and some don’t.

But, he was not great, he wasn’t even good, he was serviceable in a game whene he needed to be, so props for that, but I know Arizona is going to need more from it’s PG on the road in conf play and in March to reach its highest potential.

“He didn’t lose the game” is an interesting semantic way of saying we beat the #3 team in the country directly because of PJC’s decision making and ballhandling.

Much like “being shot over repeatedly” is an interesting way of saying his parents didn’t pass along the correct genes for him to have grown to be 6’ 2”.

PJC won’t take over a game. I’d highlight the fact that with Ayton, Trier, Rawle, and even Dusan, we don’t need him to.

We’ve had other PGs who could and would take over games such as TJ, Momo, and Lyons. Know what they have in common with PJC? A disturbing lack of Final Fours. Maybe we don’t need a guy who takes over. Maybe we just need a guy who can make the right play in pressure situations so we can survive and advance. I’m willing to wait and see if PJC can be that guy before determine that the things he lacks doom us to failure on the big stage once again.

I’m on record as saying Parker will need to have the tourney of his life to get us a natty. But I’m not on record as dismissing that possibility before we even get to March.

PHXCATS wrote:If you are looking at stats to determine worth or impact on a game you are doing it wrong

He may not be an all star but he was Damn impressive last night and had a huge positive impact on the game for Arizona

Ehh, productive players generally tend to demonstrate their worth in a measurable way. There are tons of basic and advanced metrics. If you can't pull one for a player, it says something.

The bar for PJC is that he did not lose the game for us while other guys were winning it. He hit that mark.

Happy New Year, Chi - I will take your advice and adopt the wait and see approach for the third year in a row with him, and reserve judgement until then, that’s fair and a good point by you.

however, nothing I’ve seen from him up to the point gives me any reason to believe he will lead Arizona to anything.

i hope He proves his worth and at this point is the only option at that position, and as a four year wildcat he deserves that opportunity, as much as I believe he should never have been put in this position.

97cats wrote:

Chicat wrote:If he has two more turnovers we lose that game. No doubt in my mind.

If his stat line is 5 points, 4 assists, 3 turnovers, ASU is #1 in the nation when the polls come out. Anybody happy with that outcome?

Not sure why we are discounting his ballhandling and handling pressure. Isn’t that two of the main things we need from a PG?

so he didn’t lose Arizona the game, this is what it’s been relegated to with him, so under that premis he did his job.

but for me, I believe, and it’s my opinion, you need more from your PG who played 32plus mins than just not losing the game for you. At some point he has to make an impactful stamp on a big game outside of just not fucking it up.

Again, my opinion, which I know some share and some don’t.

But, he was not great, he wasn’t even good, he was serviceable in a game whene he needed to be, so props for that, but I know Arizona is going to need more from it’s PG on the road in conf play and in March to reach its highest potential.

Does every silver lining have its cloud in your world? Boo for this.

97cats wrote:Happy New Year, Chi - I will take your advice and adopt the wait and see approach for the third year in a row with him, and reserve judgement until then, that’s fair and a good point by you.

however, nothing I’ve seen from him up to the point gives me any reason to believe he will lead Arizona to anything.

i hope He proves his worth and at this point is the only option at that position, and as a four year wildcat he deserves that opportunity, as much as I believe he should never have been put in this position.

Agree wholeheartedly with that. I would feel a lot better if PJC was coming off the bench as a change of pace guy and one who could break the press and handle pressure late in halves. Unfortunately we don’t have anyone who can take that lead guard scoring and defense role we need to complement the talents and skills he does have.

So here's pjc's game log for the 'big' games since the Bahamas trip disaster

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pl ... elog/2018/" target="_blank

@ UNLV: 12pts (5-10), 2-4 3pt, 0-0 FT, 3 AST, 2 STL, 2 TO,

Texas A&M: 5pts (1-6), 1-4 3pt, 2-2 FT, 4 AST, 2 STL, 0 TO,

Alabama: 3pts (1-4), 1-2 3pt, 0-1 FT, 5 AST, 1 STL, 0 TO,

UConn: 6pts (2-3), 2-2 3pt, 0-0 FT, 3 AST, 2 STL, 4 TO

ASU: 5pts (2-7), 1-4 3pt, 0-0 FT, 6 AST, 1 STL, 1 TO


Right off the back I noticed that pjc isn't taking enough 3s and secondly that pjc absolutely doesn't get to the line at all, probably because he doesn't attack

Thanks rondae for that

What jumps out at me is that he isn't the pg we should have at Arizona based on measurables but he's the best of what we have this year at PG since barcello looks to be having difficulty making the jump to college ball.

Maybe this year is unique because we have a future NBA big man all star and other perimeter fire power to make up for PJCs lack of scoring. At least I hope.

Just going to enjoy the ride.

Chicat wrote:If he has two more turnovers we lose that game. No doubt in my mind.

If his stat line is 5 points, 4 assists, 3 turnovers, ASU is #1 in the nation when the polls come out. Anybody happy with that outcome?

Not sure why we are discounting his ballhandling and handling pressure. Isn’t that two of the main things we need from a PG?

I was more concerned with the turnovers coming from Ayton than PJC. PJC played great game last night as the 6 to 1 line indicates

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:If you are looking at stats to determine worth or impact on a game you are doing it wrong

He may not be an all star but he was Damn impressive last night and had a huge positive impact on the game for Arizona

Ehh, productive players generally tend to demonstrate their worth in a measurable way. There are tons of basic and advanced metrics. If you can't pull one for a player, it says something.

The bar for PJC is that he did not lose the game for us while other guys were winning it. He hit that mark.

Sure that's a great mark and what I have said before. We have tons of scoring options so the point needs to flow the game and get other involved not take his.

I think plus 15, best of the game proved his worth if you need a stat

I do agree that I like the that type of plus minus for a PG.

First off, he had 5 asst to 1 turnover

PHXCATS wrote: Sure that's a great mark and what I have said before. We have tons of scoring options so the point needs to flow the game and get other involved not take his.

I think plus 15, best of the game proved his worth if you need a stat

Second, plus minus is the worst stat in all of basketball to show impact of an individual.

Third, I ask you again, what did he do outside of advancing the ball against the press and not turning the ball over that positively impacted the game?

You said stats don’t tell the whole story, please fill in the gaps for me

dmjcat wrote:

UAEebs86 wrote:SMH at people hammering PJC when Rawle was the one who disappeared (save for one nice assist to Ristic) in the second half and had five turnovers.

PJC was the only one who could really handle the press. AT was OK. Alkins, Barcello, Smith, etc. were a hot mess.

There is a difference between "hammering PJC" and merely pointing out that PJC is not an elite PG. One only has to look at PJC's line last night vs. Holders to understand that there is a vast difference in talent between the two. PJC is undoubtedly our best ball handler and our best PG.........and as a result I think it highly unlikely we get past the Sweet 16 this year. Its not PJC's fault (he is who he is). Miller has simply failed to recruit adequately at the PG position.

Highly unlikely we get by the sweet 16? Talk about over reacting. The cats just need PJC to be serviceable to make it deep. We have 3 potential 1st Rd picks on the roster so he should be deferring to them..

Dosia wrote:
Highly unlikely we get by the sweet 16? Talk about over reacting. The cats just need PJC to be serviceable to make it deep. We have 3 potential 1st Rd picks on the roster so he should be deferring to them..

And to his credit he was serviceable last night - I just don’t know if serviceable is going to be enough in March from the PG position.

as Chi said, it’s more than fair to take the wait and see approach.

97cats wrote:First off, he had 5 asst to 1 turnover

PHXCATS wrote: Sure that's a great mark and what I have said before. We have tons of scoring options so the point needs to flow the game and get other involved not take his.

I think plus 15, best of the game proved his worth if you need a stat

Second, plus minus is the worst stat in all of basketball to show impact of an individual.

Third, I ask you again, what did he do outside of advancing the ball against the press and not turning the ball over that positively impacted the game?

You said stats don’t tell the whole story, please fill in the gaps for me

Plus/minus is most telling over multi-game periods. There's a lot of individual game variability, but it has greater value when you're looking at the larger data samples.

I will say, I agree with the base idea that he advanced the ball without turnovers and that is an area we struggled without him. It's something.

I'll say that I'm more concerned that his defensive metrics have fallen off this year. Offensively, PJC is who he is. Defensively is where we could use a leader.

At this moment in time i equate the PJC scoring issue to the apparent rebounding issue Trier has. Neither is required from them to perform their function for this team.

Say what you want about ASU's defense, but no team in D1 is going to be better at the full court press because no team is going to put 4 guards on the floor for so many minutes in a game. Maybe we can call PJC's role "serviceable", but his service allowed Arizona to avoid a nightmare of the Wichita State variety last night. Their pressure and quickness kept Trier out of the game for a half, made Rawle error-prone, and turned Ayton into a turnover machine.

I think it's clear that Arizona could have lost the game because of the defensive pressure, and that the main reasons Arizona won was because:

1) Arizona's awesome defense in the second half took ASU away from what they do on offense;

2) Arizona's bigs killed ASU in the block.

Those two things basically allowed Arizona to dominate ASU in the second half, and that dominance was a little to nearly offset by ASU turning Arizona over, which put Holder in position to do what he does.

Not only was PJC not a part of that problem, he was also the reason Arizona could get the ball across half court so that Trier, Ristic, and Alkins could score in dominant fashion. That's not a small deal. It's why Arizona was able to win the game on a night ASU could have beaten anybody anywhere.

Sweet 16? Honestly, im convinced you could pull three guys from this board and put them on the floor with Ayton and Trier and we make an elite eight.

A bit of hyperbole, but Ayton and Trier might be the best duo in the country. Add in Alkins when he comes full circle midway through conference play and I am going to be extremely disappointed if we dont make a FF this year, PJC or not.

Count me in the group of Parker shouldn't be in the position he's in, but he's serviceable. Is that enough for us to achieve our goals? That remains to be seen. Miller quite frankly made the wrong PG choice in Parker's class and then has fallen victim greatly to fucking shoe recruiting politics in his chances in landing someone better. I was an advocate for a grad transfer PG prior to this season, but I understand why Miller just decided to roll with him. Let's hope the kid does just enough this year to reach our goals. He needs to be way more aggressive and not miss fricken lay ups soon.

TucsonClip wrote:Sweet 16? Honestly, im convinced you could pull three guys from this board and put them on the floor with Ayton and Trier and we make an elite eight.

A bit of hyperbole, but Ayton and Trier might be the best duo in the country. Add in Alkins when he comes full circle midway through conference play and I am going to be extremely disappointed if we dont make a FF this year, PJC or not.

I'm going to need to see the talent on this board before I commit to that take.

UAEebs86 wrote:

Longhorned wrote:

gumby wrote:Cats +15 with Parker, best on team. Barcello ... still has the yips. Alkins, bad turnovers. Parker is crucial.

Definitely.

But here’s what I don’t understand. He’s so good at breaking the press, so why doesn’t the team break toward the basket more often for a high percentage shot earlier in the shot clock? I understand that the purpose of that kind of press is to dictate a faster pace that favors ASU, but Arizona just seems to err too much on the side of holding up the ball to allow ASU to set their defense. When that happens, the feisty swarm in the paint makes it harder for our bigs to score or kick out to a shooter.

I was screaming all night for us to make them pay for the press. Fastest way to get them out of it.


I think it's Coach Miller telling him to slow it down.

The best thing you can do for a team pressing you is to not make them pay. You should want teams to press you. If you execute a press offense correctly, you score easily. Especially with guys who can finish like Alkins, Trier and Ayton.

well I would definitely rather have Holder that is for sure but PJC is a good pg.

ASU has an impressive press, and when PJC wasn't in the game, it was a little scary. So...

RondaeShimmy wrote:So here's pjc's game log for the 'big' games since the Bahamas trip disaster

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pl ... elog/2018/" target="_blank

@ UNLV: 12pts (5-10), 2-4 3pt, 0-0 FT, 3 AST, 2 STL, 2 TO,

Texas A&M: 5pts (1-6), 1-4 3pt, 2-2 FT, 4 AST, 2 STL, 0 TO,

Alabama: 3pts (1-4), 1-2 3pt, 0-1 FT, 5 AST, 1 STL, 0 TO,

UConn: 6pts (2-3), 2-2 3pt, 0-0 FT, 3 AST, 2 STL, 4 TO

ASU: 5pts (2-7), 1-4 3pt, 0-0 FT, 6 AST, 1 STL, 1 TO


Right off the back I noticed that pjc isn't taking enough 3s and secondly that pjc absolutely doesn't get to the line at all, probably because he doesn't attack

RS, thanks for sharing that. What it shows me is that PJC is doing the things THIS TEAM needs him to do:
21 assists
8 steals
just 7 turnovers

He certainly doesn't need to score, because we are a very good scoring team as it is (could be a lot better with more bench help). He is doing what the team needs him to do.

zonagrad wrote:

UAEebs86 wrote:

Longhorned wrote:

gumby wrote:Cats +15 with Parker, best on team. Barcello ... still has the yips. Alkins, bad turnovers. Parker is crucial.

Definitely.

But here’s what I don’t understand. He’s so good at breaking the press, so why doesn’t the team break toward the basket more often for a high percentage shot earlier in the shot clock? I understand that the purpose of that kind of press is to dictate a faster pace that favors ASU, but Arizona just seems to err too much on the side of holding up the ball to allow ASU to set their defense. When that happens, the feisty swarm in the paint makes it harder for our bigs to score or kick out to a shooter.

I was screaming all night for us to make them pay for the press. Fastest way to get them out of it.

I think it's Coach Miller telling him to slow it down.

The best thing you can do for a team pressing you is to not make them pay. You should want teams to press you. If you execute a press offense correctly, you score easily. Especially with guys who can finish like Alkins, Trier and Ayton.

It was all about controlling tempo. If you watch Miller's postgame iv with the radio team, he was all about tempo and how players fatigued. Pressing is about sucking the other team into a faster paced, tiring game. You lure them in with easy buckets, but when the pace and fatigue sets in, you hit them with a run.

It was a concerted effort to drive them out of their pace game and make them defend us. It diverted the game into our big strength, Trier and Ayton in the half court. They never had an answer for that all night.

I think we do need PJC to be scoring. If he's not scoring, that means he's missing open shots, or passing up open shots that should be taken. If we say we'll be ok with 4 guys playing offense, we do not win a national championship.

We will run into teams that slow Zo down, or slow Ayton down, or maybe have a 3rd athlete to cover Rawle (hello Duke? Kentucky by tourney time?). Our offense is not bulletproof enough when we face high quality defensive competition to be 4 on 5.

We will be fine winning the Pac with PJC being the PJC he's always been. We will not win a title with a PG shooting 36% from the field (since Bahamas), while allowing 30 ppg to high caliber opposing PGs. We think we are fine because we've been fine with him in the past. Problem is that "fine" eventually ran out each time.

At 5'3" he was pretty effective last night against ASU.

enfuego wrote:At 5'3" he was pretty effective last night against ASU.

Hey, beating ASU at home is no small feat, right?

Why does Miller have PJC throw the ball in after a made basket? You would think you would want your best ball handler getting the ball, instead of throwing it to a very tall but prone to bad passes true freshman. Saying that you do want Trier to eventually get the ball, but so so the opponents.

Nice recovery by PJC and Ayton after that missed layup and bad pass. Nice confidence in Miller throwing the ball into Ayton after that turnover.

Merkin wrote:Why does Miller have PJC throw the ball in after a made basket? You would think you would want your best ball handler getting the ball, instead of throwing it to a very tall but prone to bad passes true freshman. Saying that you do want Trier to eventually get the ball, but so so the opponents.

Nice recovery by PJC and Ayton after that missed layup and bad pass. Nice confidence in Miller throwing the ball into Ayton after that turnover.

Because no one else can make a quality pass inbound

Plus, the idea is to pass right back to PJC after the inbound passs, to get it into the hands of someone who can actually ball handle. Besides, good to have a bigger target to inbound to.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

TucsonClip wrote:Sweet 16? Honestly, im convinced you could pull three guys from this board and put them on the floor with Ayton and Trier and we make an elite eight.

A bit of hyperbole, but Ayton and Trier might be the best duo in the country. Add in Alkins when he comes full circle midway through conference play and I am going to be extremely disappointed if we dont make a FF this year, PJC or not.

I'm going to need to see the talent on this board before I commit to that take.

Don't be so modest Spiff. I immediately pegged you as one of the 3. I won't volunteer even though I was on the 3-man team that was runner-up in the 1993 or so Tucson Senior Olympics to a team with 2 ex AZ Wildcats on it.

I peg spiff, rgduece, and youdefoe as the three they can ball

I vaugely remember someone talking about aliebs jUmper as well.

DiehardDave37 wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

TucsonClip wrote:Sweet 16? Honestly, im convinced you could pull three guys from this board and put them on the floor with Ayton and Trier and we make an elite eight.

A bit of hyperbole, but Ayton and Trier might be the best duo in the country. Add in Alkins when he comes full circle midway through conference play and I am going to be extremely disappointed if we dont make a FF this year, PJC or not.

I'm going to need to see the talent on this board before I commit to that take.

Don't be so modest Spiff. I immediately pegged you as one of the 3. I won't volunteer even though I was on the 3-man team that was runner-up in the 1993 or so Tucson Senior Olympics to a team with 2 ex AZ Wildcats on it.

Thanks! I jacked up my right shoulder lifting about a month ago, so I'm basically a really, really poor (like Great Depression level) man's Markelle Fultz. Not having time to play pickup basketball is on my top five list of things that suck about adulthood, too.

Some of my fonder memories of youth are spending all day hanging out at the park, playing ball and waiting for the next run after you lost. It's funny, because I used to play for hours on asphalt under the summer sun in Las Vegas. At 36 years old, the thought of that makes me think of heat stroke and aching knees and ankles. When I was 16, I could do that day in and day out without batting an eye.

Now I live vicariously through Arizona players and criticize PJC even though in real life he'd snap my ankles in half warming up.

CalStateTempe wrote:I peg spiff, rgduece, and youdefoe as the three they can ball

I vaugely remember someone talking about aliebs jUmper as well.

I was gonna give Gumby a nom, but then I remember way, way back when his 12 year old son was regularly stuffing him in driveway games. So no. Maybe Senior Olympics for him.

I hit my peak in high school.

That was decades ago.

Longhorned wrote:Say what you want about ASU's defense, but no team in D1 is going to be better at the full court press because no team is going to put 4 guards on the floor for so many minutes in a game. Maybe we can call PJC's role "serviceable", but his service allowed Arizona to avoid a nightmare of the Wichita State variety last night. Their pressure and quickness kept Trier out of the game for a half, made Rawle error-prone, and turned Ayton into a turnover machine.

I think it's clear that Arizona could have lost the game because of the defensive pressure, and that the main reasons Arizona won was because:

1) Arizona's awesome defense in the second half took ASU away from what they do on offense;

2) Arizona's bigs killed ASU in the block.

Those two things basically allowed Arizona to dominate ASU in the second half, and that dominance was a little to nearly offset by ASU turning Arizona over, which put Holder in position to do what he does.

Not only was PJC not a part of that problem, he was also the reason Arizona could get the ball across half court so that Trier, Ristic, and Alkins could score in dominant fashion. That's not a small deal. It's why Arizona was able to win the game on a night ASU could have beaten anybody anywhere.

(bolding added)

Great analysis LH!

And an eye-opener by Chi when he says "We’ve had other PGs who could and would take over games such as TJ, Momo, and Lyons. Know what they have in common with PJC? A disturbing lack of Final Fours."

We've got mess-with-all-Cat-PGs in our genes. Always had it. I remember times when we burned Mighty Mouse(Damon) incessantly for his propensity to "take over games". Hilarious.

97cats wrote:
Second, plus minus is the worst stat in all of basketball to show impact of an individual.

Third, I ask you again, what did he do outside of advancing the ball against the press and not turning the ball over that positively impacted the game?

You said stats don’t tell the whole story, please fill in the gaps for me

Plus / minus might be a bad stat but you have to admit we are lost when PJC is on the bench right now, right?

And I know you think many here are not critical enough of PJC but I think you are comparing PJC with what the Arizona standard should be at pg and I am comparing PJC with his physical potential. You are right, he is a subpar starting pg for the University of Arizona. However, is he playing to his ability? I say yes... or at least close to it. I don't think he is capable of being the pg you and I expect the starting pg to be. So yes, I give him a pass because he has the talent to be a very good backup pg here but because Sean Miller screwed up he is our starter... but I don't hold this against PJC.

Also for the record, my favorite players at the UofA have always been the guys that are not the most talented, but the guys who most maximized their potential (Guys like Reggie Geary, Kyle Fogg, and TJ)

Alieberman wrote:

97cats wrote:
Second, plus minus is the worst stat in all of basketball to show impact of an individual.

Third, I ask you again, what did he do outside of advancing the ball against the press and not turning the ball over that positively impacted the game?

You said stats don’t tell the whole story, please fill in the gaps for me

Plus / minus might be a bad stat but you have to admit we are lost when PJC is on the bench right now, right?

And I know you think many here are not critical enough of PJC but I think you are comparing PJC with what the Arizona standard should be at pg and I am comparing PJC with his physical potential. You are right, he is a subpar starting pg for the University of Arizona. However, is he playing to his ability? I say yes... or at least close to it. I don't think he is capable of being the pg you and I expect the starting pg to be. So yes, I give him a pass because he has the talent to be a very good backup pg here but because Sean Miller screwed up he is our starter... but I don't hold this against PJC.

Also for the record, my favorite players at the UofA have always been the guys that are not the most talented, but the guys who most maximized their potential (Guys like Reggie Geary, Kyle Fogg, and TJ)

Us without PJC sort of depends. Against a half court D that is not heavy on ball pressure, we're fine without PJC. Against pressure, we don't have a lot of options other than PJC who can handle the ball.

Instead of arguing about PJC, someone needs to tweet phillyfansince88 and get his opinion. It would save us a lot of time to have his know all end all point guard expertise.

jsbowl16 wrote:Instead of arguing about PJC, someone needs to tweet phillyfansince88 and get his opinion. It would save us a lot of time to have his know all end all point guard expertise.

Any answer will turn into ripping TJ McConnell within 2 sentences.

I feel for the guy's boss. "Look, you do a fantastic job taking tolls. We like having you in a booth. We're just getting a lot of complaints about how you won't let anyone through unless they listen to 10 seconds of you screaming about TJ McConnell."