Bear Down Wildcats

https://twitter.com/SSJreef/status/915707318347501568" target="_blank

CatFanOneMil wrote:https://twitter.com/SSJreef/status/915707318347501568

NYCat wrote:

CatFanOneMil wrote:https://twitter.com/SSJreef/status/915707318347501568

I do like that.

Roy Williams, Bill Self, and Steve Alford must love Book.

Costal Carolina is really going to pay for this

Maybe too soon to commit Nassir

So in other words, it wouldn’t be surprising to see UNC lose some or all of its ‘18 class. What a crazy off-season.

Beachcat97 wrote:So in other words, it wouldn’t be surprising to see UNC lose some or all of its ‘18 class. What a crazy off-season.

Help me out, Beachcat.

Friday is usually a news dump day.

We shall see.

lol nothing is going to happen to UNC

They'll get a nice warning to not do it again, get extra scholarships, they get to skip the opening weekend of the tournament and the NCAA will come down hard on ecu and coastal Carolina.

Either way UNC is taking the NCAA to court

UNC is gonna get off scot-free? How is that?

Pretty sure NCAA going after UNC for fake classes violates the NCAAs own bylaws. Thus if the NCAA does hand down anything UNC will take them to court over violation of contract.

Maybe the NCAA does to prove a point even if they lose.

https://www.si.com/college-football/201 ... emic-fraud" target="_blank

UNC has mounted a compelling response to NCAA notice of allegations

The NCAA also is under intense pressure from the membership to strike hard in the Ole Miss case, but the NCAA definitely has applicable bylaws to use in that case. North Carolina’s attorneys will argue that the NCAA had no applicable bylaw when the academic fraud took place in Chapel Hill, and they may be correct.

For years, the NCAA didn’t want to wade into the murky waters of determining what is or isn’t academically sound. It left such determinations up to accrediting agencies. (It should be noted that in this case, North Carolina was placed on probation for a year by its accrediting agency.) This is why the NCAA did nothing about Tennessee’s Chair Stacking 101 classes in the late 1990s or Auburn’s directed reading classes in the early 2000s.

Shouldn’t an academic fraud case revolve around the violation of bylaws that forbid academic fraud? Well, it might if there were any such rules in the NCAA’s manual when these classes were offered. But the rules regarding academic integrity were murky at best, something attorneys Rick Evrard and Bob Kirchner point out early and often in the 106-page response that North Carolina submitted to the NCAA earlier this month. “Because the issue of the Courses is an academic issue, the University denies that there were NCAA violations,” the attorneys wrote. They also correctly point out that these classes were available to all students and thus can’t be considered benefits that were available to athletes and not the general student body

Basically UNC is likely going to take the NCAA to town if they go to court. Anyway this will be far from over, long drawn out court proceeding and followed by long drawn out appeals.

Thanks, NYC. What UNC is alleged to have done is appalling. We're talking about a veritable "culture" of academic corruption. The fake classes are probably so mundane over there that no one even gives it a second thought. Providing improper benefits to players may professionalize college sports in ways we don't want, but what UNC did goes even further because it degrades the value of a UNC diploma.

Welp looks like there's no announcement coming tomorrow. They've delayed it this long, why not another weekend?

Yeah, next week I guess

UNC-Chapel Hill had to be notified 24 hrs before the announcement. Good god is the NCAA incompetent

So....



https://twitter.com/RealJahvonQ/status/ ... 3778458624" target="_blank

If an overseeing body is prevented from penalizing a member for widespread institutional fraud central to its mission, but compelled to punish another member institution for the isolated actions of a lower ranking individual, then that body's bylaws, policies, and procedures are a joke.

YoDeFoe wrote:So....



https://twitter.com/RealJahvonQ/status/ ... 3778458624" target="_blank

FWIW, I don't think Quinerly's eligibility is automatically done. The NCAA will absolutely have him under a microscope, but I've never been certain he can't play in college. The allegation is bad, but the more you think about it, he is not far off from Little's situation.

Longhorned wrote:An overseeing body is prevented from penalizing a member for widespread institutional fraud central to its mission, but compelled to punish another member institution for the isolated actions of a lower ranking individual.

I edited your post to directly quote the Mission Statement of the NCAA's compliance division.

We haven't heard anything official about Quinerly's status, not to mention the status of current players. So no reason to assume anyone will be ineligible.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

YoDeFoe wrote:So....



https://twitter.com/RealJahvonQ/status/ ... 3778458624" target="_blank

FWIW, I don't think Quinerly's eligibility is automatically done. The NCAA will absolutely have him under a microscope, but I've never been certain he can't play in college. The allegation is bad, but the more you think about it, he is not far off from Little's situation.

I mean there's gotta be proof that 1. Quinerly or someone in his family received money from Book or "a booster" and 2. Quinerly was complicit with those actions. As we've seen with the NCAA (Cam Newton) if the student athlete was unaware of it they'll be given a pass. Either way at this point if Quinerly is going to go to college I don't see how he could go to any school not named Arizona. Him decommitting would be pretty much an admission of guilt and I'm not sure another major school would pursue him at the moment due to the allegations.

ChooChooCat wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

YoDeFoe wrote:So....



https://twitter.com/RealJahvonQ/status/ ... 3778458624" target="_blank

FWIW, I don't think Quinerly's eligibility is automatically done. The NCAA will absolutely have him under a microscope, but I've never been certain he can't play in college. The allegation is bad, but the more you think about it, he is not far off from Little's situation.

I mean there's gotta be proof that 1. Quinerly or someone in his family received money from Book or "a booster" and 2. Quinerly was complicit with those actions. As we've seen with the NCAA (Cam Newton) if the student athlete was unaware of it they'll be given a pass. Either way at this point if Quinerly is going to go to college I don't see how he could go to any school not named Arizona. Him decommitting would be pretty much an admission of guilt and I'm not sure another major school would pursue him at the moment due to the allegations.

I'm not 100% on point #2. The NCAA can "imply" enough that I wouldn't feel safe on that point.

The remainder is something I can completely agree with.

Choo just tell me he's ours so I can finish my romance novel about his game pls.

YoDeFoe wrote:Choo just tell me he's ours so I can finish my romance novel about his game pls.

lol I feel pretty confident that IF he goes to college he will go to Arizona. He's pot committed at this point. I can't guarantee he goes to college now of course nor that he'd be cleared obviously. One option for him as well if the NCAA finds him ineligible for accepting gifts is enrolling at Arizona, sitting out the year, and being eligible the following year. I have no idea if he'd even entertain that idea though.

ChooChooCat wrote:

YoDeFoe wrote:Choo just tell me he's ours so I can finish my romance novel about his game pls.

lol I feel pretty confident that IF he goes to college he will go to Arizona. He's pot committed at this point. I can't guarantee he goes to college now of course nor that he'd be cleared obviously. One option for him as well if the NCAA finds him ineligible for accepting gifts is enrolling at Arizona, sitting out the year, and being eligible the following year. I have no idea if he'd even entertain that idea though.

Yeah, it seems like the eligibility is the far bigger issue than which college.

http://www.kentucky.com/sports/college/ ... 18861.html" target="_blank

Fucking great

All or nothing this year. We're probably going to be searching for the Jarrid Famous and Kadeem Jacks of the recruiting world for the next season or two.

Wow. Well, here’s the fallout. If we can keep this year’s entire team eligible, get Rawle back healthy by the start of Pac play, hold on to the rest of our ‘18 class, and avoid any other serious setbacks, we’ll be ok. But it will suck if Bol goes to Oregon.

Fuck

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... estigation" target="_blank

I don't get how this is going to get better anytime soon. West coast talent in 2019 is garbage, Book recruited the East.

Maybe this will force Miller to recruit guys he can coach and develop. Probably should've been doing that the whole time.

Arizona could have had one of its all-time great recruiting classes. Now you have to hope the remaining commits keep their commitments and sign. Amazingly, UNC was able to continue recruiting and even win a title under an academic fraud investigation by the NCAA.

Guys, let’s put a little faith in Romar. He’s still a relatively new hire. We haven’t yet seen his recruiting impact.

midnightx wrote:Arizona could have had one of its all-time great recruiting classes. Now you have to hope the remaining commits keep their commitments and sign. Amazingly, UNC was able to continue recruiting and even win a title under an academic fraud investigation by the NCAA.

UNC predominantly didn't recruit any one and done. It may be the tactic Miller has to pursue, although I don't think he does unless he's forced to.

Beachcat97 wrote:http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... estigation

Quinerly remains committed to Arizona.

"For now, I'm committed," he said.

Wow! Didn't see this.

SunnyAZ wrote:

And this folks, is why we need to get the inevitable sanctions/penalties from the Book Bribery Scandal BEHIND us as quickly as we possibly can. I realize this concept is extremely unpopular among the majority of the "Instant Gratification" crowd on this board that want to play in the PAC12 tournament and 2018 NCAA tournament, but taking our lumps this year is the best thing for the program in the long run. If we can get the NCAA to go along with self imposed sanctions that include missing the 2018 post-season tourney we have a good chance of containing the damage to the early "One and done's" signers in the 2018 class (Bol). Miller would be able to recruit the 2019 and subsequent classes without Tournament sanctions hanging over the programs head.

If we take the Instant Gratification route and play in the tourney next year, the NCAA will surely get around to hammering us for 2019 (and possibly beyond). Miller would be stuck recruiting asu level recruits for 2-3 years. By the time we would become eligible for the tourney again we could well be floundering at the bottom of the PAC12 and unable to field a competitive team to even make the tourney.

Fortunately, this decision will be made by the University Administration ( and ABOR) in conjunction with legal counsel.......not message board posters.

If we have current players on roster who were paid and there's proof of that we sanction ourselves. Ditto if there's any proof that money got to the Quinerly family from Book with the slight difference is if we paid somebody currently on the team with proof then we sanction this year's team and if there's no proof of that, but proof of Quinerly then sanction the following season. If all investigations show that there's zero proof then you don't sanction yourself. Recruiting in 2018 is fucked no matter what at this point with the caveat we get some more clarity by the end of the season and then can play the grad transfer sweepstakes. Either way take whatever hit there is and regroup in 2019.

ChooChooCat wrote:If we have current players on roster who were paid and there's proof of that we sanction ourselves. Ditto if there's any proof that money got to the Quinerly family from Book with the slight difference is if we paid somebody currently on the team with proof then we sanction this year's team and if there's no proof of that, but proof of Quinerly then sanction the following season. If all investigations show that there's zero proof then you don't sanction yourself. Recruiting in 2018 is fucked no matter what at this point. Take the hit and regroup in 2019.

Choo - We are going to get clobbered, period, just from what the FBI has publicly revealed. And we will NOT be regrouping in 2019 if we wait for the NCAA to sanction us....and possibly not in 2020 either. Taking the hit now is the only way to minimize the damage. If we take the hit in 2018 we at least have a chance to regroup in 2019.

Quinerly said that he remains committed to Sean Miller’s program and also noted that he’s hired lawyer, Alan Milstein, to represent him.

“I’m still committed to Arizona right now, but I’m just taking it slow,” Quinerly said. “I got a lawyer. He’s just giving me step by step what to do and what to say, things like that. He’s just helping me a lot.

“He said I should be fine,” he added.

https://scout.com/college/basketball/re ... -108552394" target="_blank

dmjcat wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:If we have current players on roster who were paid and there's proof of that we sanction ourselves. Ditto if there's any proof that money got to the Quinerly family from Book with the slight difference is if we paid somebody currently on the team with proof then we sanction this year's team and if there's no proof of that, but proof of Quinerly then sanction the following season. If all investigations show that there's zero proof then you don't sanction yourself. Recruiting in 2018 is fucked no matter what at this point. Take the hit and regroup in 2019.

Choo - We are going to get clobbered, period, just from what the FBI has publicly revealed. And we will NOT be regrouping in 2019 if we wait for the NCAA to sanction us....and possibly not in 2020 either. Taking the hit now is the only way to minimize the damage. If we take the hit in 2018 we at least have a chance to regroup in 2019.

What has the FBI publicly revealed DMJ? They've revealed that Book wanted 15k to give to Quinerly's mother. At the moment there's no money trail saying that 1. Quinerly's mother or Quinerly received such money or even 2. That Book received said money. In the event that 2 is proven then you still have to prove 1 for anyone not named Book Richardson to suffer. The FBI also revealed that Book (or was it the Adidas guy) said that we have somebody on the roster who was already taken care of. At the moment there's no money trail yet on that player or his group receiving such money. The Little situation is null and void, no money was given or received.

If any of the above are proven yes we're going to get clobbered period I agree. Until that though literally every damn thing is hearsay.

Get off the sanction train until there's proof. If there's proof we sanction. Until then no. You take the UNC approach to this every single damn time. Make the FBI and/or NCAA prove there's something there outside of hearsay. Literally at the moment without a paper trail of some sort this whole thing equates to a couple of guys talking a bunch of shit.

If it makes you feel any better you fully cooperate with the NCAA and FBI and help them find proof if any exists to show good faith. You don't admit to guilt without there being proof that you are in fact guilty DMJ.

dmjcat wrote:

SunnyAZ wrote:

If we take the Instant Gratification route and play in the tourney next year, the NCAA will surely get around to hammering us for 2019 (and possibly beyond). Miller would be stuck recruiting asu level recruits for 2-3 years. By the time we would become eligible for the tourney again we could well be floundering at the bottom of the PAC12 and unable to field a competitive team to even make the tourney.

Fortunately, this decision will be made by the University Administration ( and ABOR) in conjunction with legal counsel.......not message board posters.

Amen.

P.S. There is poster here (one that tears into me pretty harshly anytime he sees my name) that said the worst part of all this has been the fans. I'm still not sure who and what he was specifically referencing, but I couldn't agree more with the subtext. The other board is now unreadable. The amount of denial, coupled with the lack of awareness of Arizona's problem is stupefying.

"Win and vacate!"

Lets band together, now, and prove our university-- as a whole-- is worse than Memphis. That will show em. Who cares? (Meaning: who possibly could think differently?)

ChooChooCat wrote:

dmjcat wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:If we have current players on roster who were paid and there's proof of that we sanction ourselves. Ditto if there's any proof that money got to the Quinerly family from Book with the slight difference is if we paid somebody currently on the team with proof then we sanction this year's team and if there's no proof of that, but proof of Quinerly then sanction the following season. If all investigations show that there's zero proof then you don't sanction yourself. Recruiting in 2018 is fucked no matter what at this point. Take the hit and regroup in 2019.

Choo - We are going to get clobbered, period, just from what the FBI has publicly revealed. And we will NOT be regrouping in 2019 if we wait for the NCAA to sanction us....and possibly not in 2020 either. Taking the hit now is the only way to minimize the damage. If we take the hit in 2018 we at least have a chance to regroup in 2019.

What has the FBI publicly revealed DMJ? They've revealed that Book wanted 15k to give to Quinerly's mother. At the moment there's no money trail saying that 1. Quinerly's mother or Quinerly received such money or even 2. That Book received said money. In the event that 2 is proven then you still have to prove 1 for anyone not named Book Richardson to suffer. The FBI also revealed that Book (or was it the Adidas guy) said that we have somebody on the roster who was already taken care of. At the moment there's no money trail yet on that player or his group receiving such money. The Little situation is null and void, no money was given or received.

If any of the above are proven yes we're going to get clobbered period I agree. Until that though literally every damn thing is hearsay.

Get off the sanction train until there's proof. If there's proof we sanction. Until then no. You take the UNC approach to this every single damn time. Make the FBI and/or NCAA prove there's something there outside of hearsay. Literally at the moment without a paper trail of some sort this whole thing equates to a couple of guys talking a bunch of shit.

I think its time for people to get off the "Denial Train". The NCAA does not require legal proof that Book passed out money.....the FBI documentation will be all they require. If we take the UNC route then there are going to be a boatload of Bols in 2018/2019/2020 who will not even consider playing for the Cats due to ongoing investigations and sanctions hanging over the program.

Hank of sb wrote:

dmjcat wrote:

SunnyAZ wrote:

If we take the Instant Gratification route and play in the tourney next year, the NCAA will surely get around to hammering us for 2019 (and possibly beyond). Miller would be stuck recruiting asu level recruits for 2-3 years. By the time we would become eligible for the tourney again we could well be floundering at the bottom of the PAC12 and unable to field a competitive team to even make the tourney.

Fortunately, this decision will be made by the University Administration ( and ABOR) in conjunction with legal counsel.......not message board posters.

Amen.

P.S. There is poster here (one that tears into me pretty harshly anytime he sees my name) that said the worst part of all this has been the fans. I'm still not sure who and what he was specifically referencing, but I couldn't agree more with the subtext. The other board is now unreadable. The amount of denial, coupled with the lack of awareness of Arizona's problem is stupefying.

"Win and vacate!"

Lets band together, now, and prove our university-- as a whole-- is worse than Memphis. That will show em. Who cares? (Meaning: who possibly could think differently?)

TLDNR ever, go away. You have an angle and an axe to grind. Good for you. Take it out on your dog or something.

dmjcat wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:

dmjcat wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:If we have current players on roster who were paid and there's proof of that we sanction ourselves. Ditto if there's any proof that money got to the Quinerly family from Book with the slight difference is if we paid somebody currently on the team with proof then we sanction this year's team and if there's no proof of that, but proof of Quinerly then sanction the following season. If all investigations show that there's zero proof then you don't sanction yourself. Recruiting in 2018 is fucked no matter what at this point. Take the hit and regroup in 2019.

Choo - We are going to get clobbered, period, just from what the FBI has publicly revealed. And we will NOT be regrouping in 2019 if we wait for the NCAA to sanction us....and possibly not in 2020 either. Taking the hit now is the only way to minimize the damage. If we take the hit in 2018 we at least have a chance to regroup in 2019.

What has the FBI publicly revealed DMJ? They've revealed that Book wanted 15k to give to Quinerly's mother. At the moment there's no money trail saying that 1. Quinerly's mother or Quinerly received such money or even 2. That Book received said money. In the event that 2 is proven then you still have to prove 1 for anyone not named Book Richardson to suffer. The FBI also revealed that Book (or was it the Adidas guy) said that we have somebody on the roster who was already taken care of. At the moment there's no money trail yet on that player or his group receiving such money. The Little situation is null and void, no money was given or received.

If any of the above are proven yes we're going to get clobbered period I agree. Until that though literally every damn thing is hearsay.

Get off the sanction train until there's proof. If there's proof we sanction. Until then no. You take the UNC approach to this every single damn time. Make the FBI and/or NCAA prove there's something there outside of hearsay. Literally at the moment without a paper trail of some sort this whole thing equates to a couple of guys talking a bunch of shit.

I think its time for people to get off the "Denial Train". The NCAA does not require legal proof that Book passed out money.....the FBI documentation will be all they require. If we take the UNC route then there are going to be a boatload of Bols in 2018/2019/2020 who will not even consider playing for the Cats due to ongoing investigations and sanctions hanging over the program.

Oh yeah? Tell that to Cam Newton.

In regards to your recruiting comments, the longer this drags on with nothing occurring the more likely Miller can get past all the negative recruiting angles. Roy Williams has done it already. I'm not in denial, I just want proof, and until that proof exists there's no reason for any denial. Maybe read up on due process when you get the chance.

There is a lot more to this situation than we know. The UA has already contacted the NCAA and is having conversations about the situation. I'm sure we will know the best course of action to take to mitigate the damage. I trust the UA will do what is in their best interest. For more info, read this:

http://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcat ... 8eab8.html" target="_blank

ChooChooCat wrote:

dmjcat wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:

dmjcat wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:If we have current players on roster who were paid and there's proof of that we sanction ourselves. Ditto if there's any proof that money got to the Quinerly family from Book with the slight difference is if we paid somebody currently on the team with proof then we sanction this year's team and if there's no proof of that, but proof of Quinerly then sanction the following season. If all investigations show that there's zero proof then you don't sanction yourself. Recruiting in 2018 is fucked no matter what at this point. Take the hit and regroup in 2019.

Choo - We are going to get clobbered, period, just from what the FBI has publicly revealed. And we will NOT be regrouping in 2019 if we wait for the NCAA to sanction us....and possibly not in 2020 either. Taking the hit now is the only way to minimize the damage. If we take the hit in 2018 we at least have a chance to regroup in 2019.

What has the FBI publicly revealed DMJ? They've revealed that Book wanted 15k to give to Quinerly's mother. At the moment there's no money trail saying that 1. Quinerly's mother or Quinerly received such money or even 2. That Book received said money. In the event that 2 is proven then you still have to prove 1 for anyone not named Book Richardson to suffer. The FBI also revealed that Book (or was it the Adidas guy) said that we have somebody on the roster who was already taken care of. At the moment there's no money trail yet on that player or his group receiving such money. The Little situation is null and void, no money was given or received.

If any of the above are proven yes we're going to get clobbered period I agree. Until that though literally every damn thing is hearsay.

Get off the sanction train until there's proof. If there's proof we sanction. Until then no. You take the UNC approach to this every single damn time. Make the FBI and/or NCAA prove there's something there outside of hearsay. Literally at the moment without a paper trail of some sort this whole thing equates to a couple of guys talking a bunch of shit.

I think its time for people to get off the "Denial Train". The NCAA does not require legal proof that Book passed out money.....the FBI documentation will be all they require. If we take the UNC route then there are going to be a boatload of Bols in 2018/2019/2020 who will not even consider playing for the Cats due to ongoing investigations and sanctions hanging over the program.

Oh yeah? Tell that to Cam Newton.

In regards to your recruiting comments, the longer this drags on with nothing occurring the more likely Miller can get past all the negative recruiting angles. Roy Williams has done it already. I'm not in denial, I just want proof, and until that proof exists there's no reason for any denial. Maybe read up on due process when you get the chance.

LMAO........when has the NCAA EVER cared about "Due Process"??????

We are dealing the NCAA here, not a court of law.

We can agree to disagree. I for one doubt that the UA administration (and ABOR) is going to take the Jerry Tarkanian route.

84Cat wrote:There is a lot more to this situation than we know. The UA has already contacted the NCAA and is having conversations about the situation. I'm sure we will know the best course of action to take to mitigate the damage. I trust the UA will do what is in their best interest. For more info, read this:

http://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcat ... 8eab8.html" target="_blank

Did Pascoe write "if allegations are proven true" enough? For some apparently not.

dmjcat wrote:
LMAO........when has the NCAA EVER cared about "Due Process"??????

We are dealing the NCAA here, not a court of law.

We can agree to disagree. I for one doubt that the UA administration (and ABOR) is going to take the Jerry Tarkanian route.

Ummm I just named the most recent and prominent situation with Cam Newton did I not?