Bear Down Wildcats

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

jsbowl16 wrote:Instead of arguing about PJC, someone needs to tweet phillyfansince88 and get his opinion. It would save us a lot of time to have his know all end all point guard expertise.

Any answer will turn into ripping TJ McConnell within 2 sentences.

I feel for the guy's boss. "Look, you do a fantastic job taking tolls. We like having you in a booth. We're just getting a lot of complaints about how you won't let anyone through unless they listen to 10 seconds of you screaming about TJ McConnell."

He doth protest too much. He probably hit on TJ and got turned down. Harassment charges imminent.

happy New Year, Al to you and the family

Alieberman wrote: Plus / minus might be a bad stat but you have to admit we are lost when PJC is on the bench right now, right?

i wouldnt call Arizona lost, but the team as a whole in the second half handled ASU better when Cartwright was on the floor.

Alieberman wrote:And I know you think many here are not critical enough of PJC but I think you are comparing PJC with what the Arizona standard should be at pg

i dont know if its so much as "many here arent critical enough" its the over-congratulating and confusing mediocre or as i like to call it "serviceable" play with great and outstanding play.

Alieberman wrote:and I am comparing PJC with his physical potential.

if the game against ASU is the best he can play due to his own potential thats a scary thought for the starting PG playing 32+mins for Arizona

Alieberman wrote:You are right, he is a subpar starting pg for the University of Arizona.

i agree, he should not be playing or be counted on to play more than 12-15mins per game off the bench for Arizona

Alieberman wrote:However, is he playing to his ability? I say yes... or at least close to it.

so hes playing as good as he can play right now?? again thats a scary thought for the starting PG at Arizona

Alieberman wrote:I don't think he is capable of being the pg you and I expect the starting pg to be.

i agree

Alieberman wrote:So yes, I give him a pass because he has the talent to be a very good backup pg here but because Sean Miller screwed up he is our starter... but I don't hold this against PJC.

i agree on the back-up comment and i 100% agree that this is not the players fault, this is Sean Miller's fault completely.

Alieberman wrote:Also for the record, my favorite players at the UofA have always been the guys that are not the most talented, but the guys who most maximized their potential (Guys like Reggie Geary, Kyle Fogg, and TJ)

i respect that opinion, you're a great supporter of the team and a terrific/loyal fan

Chicat wrote:

i love Miller, but this entire statement is the biggest crock of shit

comparing his defense to what? the shit it was last year? so its less shitty?

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

and perfect PG for this team?

GTFO, Coach

97cats wrote:

Chicat wrote:

i love Miller, but this entire statement is the biggest crock of shit

comparing his defense to what? the shit it was last year? so its less shitty?

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

and perfect PG for this team?

GTFO, Coach

My amateur psychoanalysis:

Parker gets down on himself easily. Miller's handling of him reflects this. He gives PJC a lot of reassurance, and that is probably appropriate given Parker's mental makeup.

97Cats in this thread

TheBlackLodge wrote:97Cats

Al, asked me a question, i replied -- i thought that was good board etiquette?

and, if Sean Miller says stupid and ridiculous things im going to comment.

97cats wrote:

TheBlackLodge wrote:97Cats

Al, asked me a question, i replied -- i thought that was good board etiquette?

and, if Sean Miller says stupid and ridiculous things im going to comment.

I'm sure he appreciated your replies, Jon, but that wasn't my point. Whether it's personal or not (you insist it isn't) you have gone out of your way, on here and 247/Scout premium, to try and take the air out of PJC's excellent performance. Both the stats (6/1 A to T ratio) and the eye test reflect this, and yet here you are, still beating that damn horse.

Also, you keep saying he had five assists when every box score I've seen (including from the UA Athletics Department) shows six. Seems pretty small of you, TBH.

I thought you were going to let this shit go and just enjoy the season. Am I misremembering?!

Parker is at a size disadvantage against bigger and aggressive guards. It is what it is.

My hope is that he shoots more threes. That's something he can control.

TheBlackLodge wrote:
Whether it's personal or not (you insist it isn't) you have gone out of your way, on here and 247/Scout premium, to try and take the air out of PJC's excellent performance. Both the stats (6/1 A to T ratio) and the eye test reflect this, and yet here you are, still beating that damn horse.

this is it, once again, his performance is far from excellent, and against ASU he was not excellent, IMO.

your opinion of excellent is far, far from when mine is, advancing the ball and not turning it over is a requirement of the position, but doesnt make his play excellent, or further one i feel strong about heading into the conf season and March.

so we just disagree apparently, cause playing 33mins and going 2-7 from the floor, 1-3 from three, dropping 6asst to 1 turnover while getting beat off the dribble and shot over for easy baskets repeatedly is not excellent point guard play.

but, here you are again, beating a dead horse touting his play as excellent, lowering the bar again for what is excellent PG play at Arizona.

YoDeFoe wrote:My hope is that he shoots more threes. That's something he can control.

I would love that too, but I feel like we run only maybe a play or two a game to get him an open three. Would like to see more of that.

97cats wrote:

TheBlackLodge wrote:

this is it, once again, his performance is far from excellent, and against ASU he was not excellent, IMO.

your opinion of excellent is far, far from when mine is, advancing the ball and not turning it over is a requirement of the position, but doesnt make his play excellent, or further one i feel strong about heading into the conf season and March.

so we just disagree apparently, cause playing 33mins and going 2-7 from the floor, 1-3 from three, dropping 6asst to 1 turnover while getting beat off the dribble and shot over for easy baskets repeatedly is not excellent point guard play.

but, here you are again, beating a dead horse touting his play as excellent, lowering the bar again for what is excellent PG play at Arizona.

First off, this is my third post in this thread, so my horse is still alive and kicking. Don't let your emotions get it twisted.

Second, given his less than average shooting performance, I'll walk back from excellent to very good. But to say PJC was "far from excellent" only reveals your own bias towards him. I was at the game and saw what everyone else did: The offense struggled to break ASU's full-court press when PJC was on the bench. I was screaming at Miller from section 119 to burn a damn TO to get Parker in before the under 8:00. Once he was inserted back into the lineup, the press was easily dissolved.

Defensively, he played as well as expected. PJC will always get shot over, that is his weak point and something that cannot be helped. But Tra Holder didn't score 31 on him alone, and I know you know that. Holder burned a number of our defenders, but given how well every other ASU player was held in check, it didn't matter. Tra got his and we still would have won going away if not for some awful TOs at the end. He wasn't perfect but without PJC, we lose this game.

Only 27 games left until the bar is raised back up

Every shot that is not a wide open shot that PJC takes is a shot and touch away from Alkins, Trier, Ayton, Ristic, Lee, Smith, Randolph etc.

Take care of the ball, distribute the ball, flow the offense, take open shots as they come and play d. Thats all that is needed

Bottom line PJC plays at U of A we all support U of A players.

PJC talent level is a starter on an WAC team or a backup pg at a program like U of A.

Miller is the coach and doesn't have a pg the level of his program, so he plays what he has. It's Miller's fault not PJC. But PJC isn't an excellent pg he's serviceable. Serviceable in your starting line up is a weakness when competing for national championships. He's our biggest weakness in our starting line up. Why do people get so sensitive about this. He is what he is, he's a backup pg playing starters minutes. That's a fact.

I still want him to succeed and play well. But he hasn't shown that he has that potential. It seems to me his mental make up limits his ceiling. I hope I'm wrong and he's as good as some here seem to suggest. If that's the case it's a cake walk to a final 4 instead of a battle because of all the talent on this roster. This roster was perfect to TJ imo.

Miller...

“Parker has done a real good job in a quiet way because he’s not a high scorer, but you have to remember the team that he’s playing on,” head coach Sean Miller said.

“In some ways, he’s the perfect point guard for this team. With Rawle back now, you have two wings that can score, we have a good low post game and what Parker does is what a lot of coaches would love their point guard to do.”

“Defensively I think this is the best that he’s played,” Miller said. “Even against ASU, Tra Holder had a big night, he has a lot of big nights against a lot of players, but a lot of those points didn’t come one-on-one against Parker. He thrived in transition and sometimes against other matchups.”

but..
Can the Wildcats reach the Final Four or win a national championship with PJC as their starting point guard?

Many folks don’t think so.


https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketbal ... llo-injury" target="_blank

ZZZZZZZZZ

PHXCATS wrote:Every shot that is not a wide open shot that PJC takes is a shot and touch away from Alkins, Trier, Ayton, Ristic, Lee, Smith, Randolph etc.

Scratch Lee from this list and I'll agree. I don't want Lee taking any shots other than put-backs.

DiehardDave37 wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:Every shot that is not a wide open shot that PJC takes is a shot and touch away from Alkins, Trier, Ayton, Ristic, Lee, Smith, Randolph etc.

Scratch Lee from this list and I'll agree. I don't want Lee taking any shots other than put-backs.

I am with you DHD. I am a huge Lee fan, love what he does (well)... but that shot he took from above the free throw line against ASU was terrible.

HiCat wrote: but..
Can the Wildcats reach the Final Four or win a national championship with PJC as their starting point guard?

Many folks don’t think so.

To those folks i'd ask: how many FF's and Natty's have Miller won (or even went to) with PG's better than PJC?

Every Miller team is going to have a weakness. If you want to view this year's weakness as being PG then so be it, but if we can't make it to the FF with this team then when can we?

Chicat wrote:

This is a joke, right? PJC is without a doubt the weakest defensive link on this team. Larger guards simply rise up and shoot over him, faster guards blow by him. Go back and look at our games, especially the losses and you will see guys he is trying to "cover" putting up career numbers on PJC.

We become a better team defensively when they trust Alex more.

Unless that's what Miller is shooting for. Weak ass defensive guard play.

Ah, I see now in the quote. It's the best PJC has played. Which was incredibly horrid to begin with.

Now that was a great half of basketball by PJC

Alieberman wrote:Now that was a great half of basketball by PJC

Except for when he was on the bench. He's so good, I resent the bench for existing.

97cats wrote:

TheBlackLodge wrote:97Cats

Al, asked me a question, i replied -- i thought that was good board etiquette?

and, if Sean Miller says stupid and ridiculous things im going to comment.

And of course I appreciate your response. I just want you to be wrong on this 1 thing for the good of Arizona this year!

From hero to goat, what a difference in halves

And goat, not GOAT.

Parker was very, very good tonight.

Alieberman wrote:Now that was a great half of basketball by PJC

And his 2nd half was pure dogshit

Alieberman wrote:

Alieberman wrote:Now that was a great half of basketball by PJC

And his 2nd half was pure dogshit

How pissed was Miller when PJC fouled those 2 3 point shooters?

Merkin wrote:

Alieberman wrote:

Alieberman wrote:Now that was a great half of basketball by PJC

And his 2nd half was pure dogshit

How pissed was Miller when PJC fouled those 2 3 point shooters?

At least one wasn't a foul. I'm usually ripping on PJC, but a lot of the second half wasn't on him. We did a poor job on screens and it made him look worse than he was.

So who here thinks that key 4th foul was legit? PJC with the ball under pressure, backs toward the top of the key as Bibbins reaches in, PJC extends his left arm, and Bibbins dives into PJC's chest. I don't think that's a call at all. The only reason there's a whistle is because Bibbins ends up on the floor by his own action.

Longhorned wrote:So who here thinks that key 4th foul was legit? PJC with the ball under pressure, backs toward the top of the key as Bibbins reaches in, PJC extends his left arm, and Bibbins dives into PJC's chest. I don't think that's a call at all. The only reason there's a whistle is because Bibbins ends up on the floor by his own action.

Dude tripped over his own feet while grabbing Parker, and since Parker was trying to hold the guy off with his left arm as it happened the ref called it offensive. A truly terrible call.

Alieberman wrote:
And his 2nd half was pure dogshit

How so? Bullshit foul calls (three times. Those 3 pt fouls were awful and the 4th foul even worse)

dcZONAfan wrote:

Longhorned wrote:So who here thinks that key 4th foul was legit? PJC with the ball under pressure, backs toward the top of the key as Bibbins reaches in, PJC extends his left arm, and Bibbins dives into PJC's chest. I don't think that's a call at all. The only reason there's a whistle is because Bibbins ends up on the floor by his own action.

Dude tripped over his own feet while grabbing Parker, and since Parker was trying to hold the guy off with his left arm as it happened the ref called it offensive. A truly terrible call.

And that was the key foul that took PJC out of the game. The stupid fouls on 3-point shooters aside, it's the fine line between a dogshit half and other possibilities.

dcZONAfan wrote:

Alieberman wrote:
And his 2nd half was pure dogshit

How so? Bullshit foul calls (three times. Those 3 pt fouls were awful and the 4th foul even worse)

Absolutely! That offensive foul call was possibly the worst call I have seen so far this season. The guy really didn't trip over his own feet, he tripped over a teammate's feet.

BBQ wildcat wrote:

dcZONAfan wrote:

Alieberman wrote:
And his 2nd half was pure dogshit

How so? Bullshit foul calls (three times. Those 3 pt fouls were awful and the 4th foul even worse)

Absolutely! That offensive foul call was possibly the worst call I have seen so far this season. The guy really didn't trip over his own feet, he tripped over a teammate's feet.

Now hold on just a minute, and let's get this straight. The worst call this season was when UConn player fouled Trier from behind on a fast break to the basket and they called an offensive foul. December 21, 2017. Worst call of all time.

We were up and down with PJC on the floor . . . but I thought we looked pretty much like dogshit with him on the bench.

Longhorned wrote: Now hold on just a minute, and let's get this straight. The worst call this season was when UConn player fouled Trier from behind on a fast break to the basket and they called an offensive foul. December 21, 2017. Worst call of all time.

Still scratch my head over that one. If I recall right, it was the ref in the opposite end of the court that made the call, not the ref right in front of the play.

In any event, good to see PJC out there in crunch time. Build up his confidence after being pulled. He pulled down his arms every time a 3 point shot was going up. Not going to make freshman mistake 3 times in one game.

dcZONAfan wrote:

Longhorned wrote:So who here thinks that key 4th foul was legit? PJC with the ball under pressure, backs toward the top of the key as Bibbins reaches in, PJC extends his left arm, and Bibbins dives into PJC's chest. I don't think that's a call at all. The only reason there's a whistle is because Bibbins ends up on the floor by his own action.

Dude tripped over his own feet while grabbing Parker, and since Parker was trying to hold the guy off with his left arm as it happened the ref called it offensive. A truly terrible call.

This is what happened. Utah guy visibly tripped over his teammate who was playing post D. It was a bad call, but...

dcZONAfan wrote:

Alieberman wrote:
And his 2nd half was pure dogshit

How so? Bullshit foul calls (three times. Those 3 pt fouls were awful and the 4th foul even worse)

He looked constantly out of position on D in the 2nd half and maybe 1 of those 3 ball fouls wasn't actually a foul but you don't touch a 3 point shooter and you shouldn't have to race halfway across the court to guard a wide open 3 point shooter who isn't missing in the 2nd half.

Longhorned wrote:

BBQ wildcat wrote:

dcZONAfan wrote:

Alieberman wrote:
And his 2nd half was pure dogshit

How so? Bullshit foul calls (three times. Those 3 pt fouls were awful and the 4th foul even worse)

Absolutely! That offensive foul call was possibly the worst call I have seen so far this season. The guy really didn't trip over his own feet, he tripped over a teammate's feet.

Now hold on just a minute, and let's get this straight. The worst call this season was when UConn player fouled Trier from behind on a fast break to the basket and they called an offensive foul. December 21, 2017. Worst call of all time.

You are absolutely right! My bad.

Alieberman wrote:

dcZONAfan wrote:

Alieberman wrote:
And his 2nd half was pure dogshit

How so? Bullshit foul calls (three times. Those 3 pt fouls were awful and the 4th foul even worse)

He looked constantly out of position on D in the 2nd half and maybe 1 of those 3 ball fouls wasn't actually a foul but you don't touch a 3 point shooter and you shouldn't have to race halfway across the court to guard a wide open 3 point shooter who isn't missing in the 2nd half.

Eh, I've been harsh on Parker in the past, but most of that wasn't on him. We did a horrible job handling Utah's screening action in the 2nd and it left Parker helping FAR more than he should have to. That put him in the place of having to recover to his man a lot, and there isn't a defender alive who can look that good if they constantly have to recover to the ball.

I thought one of the 3 point foul calls was BS and that Parker didn't touch him.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Alieberman wrote:

dcZONAfan wrote:

Alieberman wrote:
And his 2nd half was pure dogshit

How so? Bullshit foul calls (three times. Those 3 pt fouls were awful and the 4th foul even worse)

He looked constantly out of position on D in the 2nd half and maybe 1 of those 3 ball fouls wasn't actually a foul but you don't touch a 3 point shooter and you shouldn't have to race halfway across the court to guard a wide open 3 point shooter who isn't missing in the 2nd half.

Eh, I've been harsh on Parker in the past, but most of that wasn't on him. We did a horrible job handling Utah's screening action in the 2nd and it left Parker helping FAR more than he should have to. That put him in the place of having to recover to his man a lot, and there isn't a defender alive who can look that good if they constantly have to recover to the ball.

I thought one of the 3 point foul calls was BS and that Parker didn't touch him.

I admittedly don't have the basketball IQ to understand all the ins and outs of the defenses we are running but I do know I kept seeing unguarded wide open 3 point shots against a team that literally wasn't missing ANY 3 point shots... and it seemed to always be PJC's man who was taking the shots. I guess I don't understand why PJC was having to help and then forced to recover when we knew they were looking for 3 point shots every time down the court?

I didn't realize this until Pasch said it, but you cannot touch a shooter until his feet return to the ground. I have wondered why players get called for fouls after the ball leaves the shooter's hands, since the contact had no impact at all on the flight of the ball. Used to be contact was allowed in basketball, as long as one player did not force an advantage over the other player.

Pretty sure there was contact on the 2 PJC fouls on the 3 point shooter, although at least one had no impact on the flight of the ball.

In any event, after CSM pulled PJC, after he returned he kept his arms down after the player released the ball.

Alieberman wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Alieberman wrote:

dcZONAfan wrote:

Alieberman wrote:
And his 2nd half was pure dogshit

How so? Bullshit foul calls (three times. Those 3 pt fouls were awful and the 4th foul even worse)

He looked constantly out of position on D in the 2nd half and maybe 1 of those 3 ball fouls wasn't actually a foul but you don't touch a 3 point shooter and you shouldn't have to race halfway across the court to guard a wide open 3 point shooter who isn't missing in the 2nd half.

Eh, I've been harsh on Parker in the past, but most of that wasn't on him. We did a horrible job handling Utah's screening action in the 2nd and it left Parker helping FAR more than he should have to. That put him in the place of having to recover to his man a lot, and there isn't a defender alive who can look that good if they constantly have to recover to the ball.

I thought one of the 3 point foul calls was BS and that Parker didn't touch him.

I admittedly don't have the basketball IQ to understand all the ins and outs of the defenses we are running but I do know I kept seeing unguarded wide open 3 point shots against a team that literally wasn't missing ANY 3 point shots... and it seemed to always be PJC's man who was taking the shots. I guess I don't understand why PJC was having to help and then forced to recover when we knew they were looking for 3 point shots every time down the court?

My caveat: I have not rewatched the game and this is memory based from last night.

There are a couple of overall factors. Utah ran an offense heavy on perimeter screening. Miller also switched Parker to give him greater responsibility.

What I saw was that we had overall trouble with handling screens. This led to a lot of people trailing. What this means in packline terms is that off ball defenders had to help until the on ball defender got through, then recover to their man.

It cuts back to some of the packline principles. Job 1 is always cut off penetration. When we're executing poorly on screens, off ball defenders get sucked in a lot. This happened a bit to Parker. Him leaving his man open looks bad on him but he's really just filling his role and the breakdown happened earlier.

The second way he got hurt is that he was getting run off a lot of screens. Very few defenders can fight through without good help from the screeners man. This is the direct way we sucked last night. We were very ineffective in buying recovery time for the defender fighting through the screen. Again, this leaves Parker trailing an open guy, but really isn't on him.

I saw a lot of that last night, that Parker was basically playing the principles the way he was supposed to, but that a lot of issues stemmed from screens usually resulting in a gap that threw us into rotations.

lets stick to the good from my keyboard for once on PJC, he was terrific in the first half in a game where AZ had to come focused out of the gate and temper that rabid crowd.

for the first time i can remember in an AZ uniform he controlled the game for an entire 20 minutes and it showed. if that first half isnt indicative of what steady excellent PG play can do for this years team i dont know what ever will.

i gripped that Coach Miller made a mistake removing him when he was his hottest after the two made free throws and sat him -- i thought he shoulda road the hot confident hand there regardless of the altitude and short turnaround concerns and try and blow the game wide open.

what was even more impressive, after the long rest Cartwright re-entered the game and continued the hot play, ending the half strongly.

as for his second half and the defensive struggles, Utah made a concerted effort to go at Cartwright and shoot over top of him. it resulted in what spiff said, they put him in more pic and roll ball screens and ran him along the baseline and down-screened him off the low block circle cut. my thought while i was watching was LK was making him work on defense two fold: 1) to make him play both ends in hopes of effecting his production on the offensive side of the ball and 2) that was Utah's best match-up to attack.

what transpired spilled over to the other guys and the Utes started making shots not just on Cartwright but Alkins Trier and Smith too.

as for the fourth foul, he initiated the contact with his off arm when he didnt need to, he has a bit of a bad habit when he goes into the lane of trying to arm-bar to gain separation, which can be effective when bodied tight but equally ineffective when there is separation and its not needed, to me it was an easy call.

the biggest plus i saw, maybe even better than the first half, after a very difficult stretch in the second and after he was forced to sit, he came back in with no lost confidence and remained poised to finish the game, hitting two sets of big free throws and playing mostly mistake free.

i think its pretty obvious seeing Arizona's ceiling when they get excellent play from the point of attack on this years team, they are almost impossible to handle given all the ELITE pieces on the floor.

my position on this years team and some of my opinion is derived from this point, Arizona is one of the two or three best teams in the nation when its PG plays like it did in the first half.

great first half from Cartwright in a very tough weekday road game in a hostile environment, it cant be stated enough how important it was for Arizona to gain total control of the game from the opening tip.

lets see how this continues to develop over the course of the next two months.

Speaking to 97's post, that is why I don't ding PJC a ton for the second half D. I consider Scottie Pippen the best perimeter defender of all time, but even he couldn't have done it alone if he had to run off 2-3 screens per possession. That is a situation that requires team D to shine, and we really didn't.

I'm not saying he was perfect, but in a screen heavy offense, the onus is on the screener's man. PJC didn't lay on screens and tried to fight through, which is what he has to do. He isn't exceptional at it (largely physical limits) but you always need help.

We had large scale issues defending the screen in the second half. I thought a lot of Parker looking bad was a combo of Utah attacking him and Miller having him defend guys who got hot.

The last few posts are everything that’s great about the b-ball forum. Thanks guys. Great stuff.

Chicat wrote:The last few posts are everything that’s great about the b-ball forum. Thanks guys. Great stuff.

I totally agree... and I'm the 1 they are disagreeing with!

I agree, that's pretty impressive knowledge of basketball. I made a mental note to reread those posts when I have more time to digest them and try to understand the pack line better.

Great comments, especially Spiff's crisp point-out of PJC being run off screens and not getting help from the screener's man.

And there's this line:

4-6 3-4 8-8 0-4 4 4 19 3 1 0 2