Bear Down Wildcats

Jefe wrote:At this point do we know who our most valuable player will be? Its a toss up between the 3 freshman and could be all season. Nice problem to have for our scouting report. Oh and dont forget about our 6'10" Senior who can ball

ChooChooCat wrote:It's still to be determined, there's even a slight and I stress slight possibility Baker could obtain immediate eligibility and compete for that spot too

Woh. Played 24 games last year. I wonder what the argument could possibly be

"We really really want him to play now please"

Jefe wrote:At this point do we know who our most valuable player will be? Its a toss up between the 3 freshman and could be all season. Nice problem to have for our scouting report. Oh and dont forget about our 6'10" Senior who can ball

ChooChooCat wrote:It's still to be determined, there's even a slight and I stress slight possibility Baker could obtain immediate eligibility and compete for that spot too

Woh. Played 24 games last year. I wonder what the argument could possibly be

Hardship waivers have been pretty loose lately. Has he had a relative with flulike symptoms who lives in 100 miles of Tucson?

He missed his whole freshman year with injury too, but I doubt that helps.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Jefe wrote:At this point do we know who our most valuable player will be? Its a toss up between the 3 freshman and could be all season. Nice problem to have for our scouting report. Oh and dont forget about our 6'10" Senior who can ball

ChooChooCat wrote:It's still to be determined, there's even a slight and I stress slight possibility Baker could obtain immediate eligibility and compete for that spot too

Woh. Played 24 games last year. I wonder what the argument could possibly be

Hardship waivers have been pretty loose lately. Has he had a relative with flulike symptoms who lives in 100 miles of Tucson?

He missed his whole freshman year with injury too, but I doubt that helps.

How about “the universe fucking owes us one”?

Stone blocked the shit out of Jordan Brown, looked smart and fluid in those practice clips. Love it.

Jefe wrote:At this point do we know who our most valuable player will be? Its a toss up between the 3 freshman and could be all season. Nice problem to have for our scouting report. Oh and dont forget about our 6'10" Senior who can ball

ChooChooCat wrote:It's still to be determined, there's even a slight and I stress slight possibility Baker could obtain immediate eligibility and compete for that spot too

Woh. Played 24 games last year. I wonder what the argument could possibly be

If Nico isn't our MVP I will be shocked. It'll also mean the season will probably be disappointing.

Not sure what his case would be and the NCAA certainly will not go out of its way to do us any favors, hence why I say there's a SLIGHT chance, but I've seen tons of football transfers get immediate eligibility for reasons?...so it's certainly worth a try. He'd be a perfect 3 and D guy to start next to Nico though.

ChooChooCat wrote:

Jefe wrote:At this point do we know who our most valuable player will be? Its a toss up between the 3 freshman and could be all season. Nice problem to have for our scouting report. Oh and dont forget about our 6'10" Senior who can ball

ChooChooCat wrote:It's still to be determined, there's even a slight and I stress slight possibility Baker could obtain immediate eligibility and compete for that spot too

Woh. Played 24 games last year. I wonder what the argument could possibly be

If Nico isn't our MVP I will be shocked. It'll also mean the season will probably be disappointing.

Not sure what his case would be and the NCAA certainly will not go out of its way to do us any favors, hence why I say there's a SLIGHT chance, but I've seen tons of football transfers get immediate eligibility for reasons?...so it's certainly worth a try. He'd be a perfect 3 and D guy to start next to Nico though.

Baker is like Smith, except light years better as a ballhandler, a much more consistent shooter across the board, stronger, a better passer and better able to handle small guards.

I'd be shocked if he could get a waiver, but geez, that would be a major asset. Baker is a perfect fit with Nico and Green at the 2.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-basket ... -2019-2020" target="_blank

Guy thinks we're the 3rd best team in the Pac.

Beachcat97 wrote:https://www.sbnation.com/college-basket ... -2019-2020

Guy thinks we're the 3rd best team in the Pac.

Anyone who puts Colorado at #2 in the conference has not been following Pac 11.5 basketball...

CatFanOneMil wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:https://www.sbnation.com/college-basket ... -2019-2020

Guy thinks we're the 3rd best team in the Pac.

Anyone who puts Colorado at #2 in the conference has not been following Pac 11.5 basketball...

Dude is a Louisville apparatchik. . . so not attentive is a given.

That said The Boil has the least amount of turnover so and ended on a Texas snuffed hot streak so who knows?

ghostwhitehorse wrote:

CatFanOneMil wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:https://www.sbnation.com/college-basket ... -2019-2020

Guy thinks we're the 3rd best team in the Pac.

Anyone who puts Colorado at #2 in the conference has not been following Pac 11.5 basketball...

Dude is a Louisville apparatchik. . . so not attentive is a given.

That said The Boil has the least amount of turnover so and ended on a Texas snuffed hot streak so who knows?

Boil couldn't coach his way out of a wet paper bag even if he had Lebron on his team, this will be his last year in Colorado Rocky Mountain high, trust me.

I get the respect for UW. They have another good team, and Hopkins is obviously a strong coach.

Don't know about you guys, but I think a 1st or 2nd place finish is the bar for this AZ team. It's not often Miller has this much talent, and we don't know who (besides Nico) will be OAD. I've learned not to set the expectations too high, but in Miller's best seasons, we had excellent guard play, frontcourt depth and first rate defense. Seems like this team at least has the potential to check all of those boxes.

I feel like Goodman broke the BWill story just to fuck our preseason polling.

Or at least I wouldn’t put it past that mealy-mouthed schmuck.

Wouldn’t be too surprising to see Green emerge as our best player. He’s going to get lots of minutes and lots of shots. Kid is ready to shine.

Well Oregon just got a whole lot better for next year.

ChooChooCat wrote:Well Oregon just got a whole lot better for next year.

Good. Maybe the Pac won't be hot garbage and an RPI drag.

ChooChooCat wrote:Well Oregon just got a whole lot better for next year.

Gonna be a battle between us, UW, and Oregon this year imo.

CSM was/is in a tough place going back to the 2018 recruiting cycle and is still playing catch up. Hard to argue with what he did in last year's cycle but if we have 3 1AD's it does not leave a lot of room for catching up. Williams going down just kills any momentum. He would be the glue on this years team and the difference in being legit contenders. Now he is chasing yet again at the PG position and razor thin in depth this year and it is looking bleak going forward. Can't say he had other/better immediate opportunities or that I disagree with Baker and Brown (I absolutely agree with Brown and somewhat Baker) but we have 3 scholarships going to guys who could start or at minimum get 20+ minutes on this team sitting on the bench. In Spanish they say no bueno.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:Well Oregon just got a whole lot better for next year.

Good. Maybe the Pac won't be hot garbage and an RPI drag.

ESPN's Jeff Borzello (Yeah I know... fuck ESPN) has in his way too early pre-season rankings

17 Oregon
18 Arizona
23 Washington
24 Colorado
26 USC

If this is anywhere close to reality, the PAC will be much much better

baycat93 wrote:CSM was/is in a tough place going back to the 2018 recruiting cycle and is still playing catch up. Hard to argue with what he did in last year's cycle but if we have 3 1AD's it does not leave a lot of room for catching up. Williams going down just kills any momentum. He would be the glue on this years team and the difference in being legit contenders. Now he is chasing yet again at the PG position and razor thin in depth this year and it is looking bleak going forward. Can't say he had other/better immediate opportunities or that I disagree with Baker and Brown (I absolutely agree with Brown and somewhat Baker) but we have 3 scholarships going to guys who could start or at minimum get 20+ minutes on this team sitting on the bench. In Spanish they say no bueno.

If BWill is back, Brown, Baker and BWill are essentially three returning starters next year. I'm not sure things are bleak.

Add in Ira as a senior at PF and DD if he returns and that's a solid veteran core before any additions. I really hope BWill is back.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

baycat93 wrote:CSM was/is in a tough place going back to the 2018 recruiting cycle and is still playing catch up. Hard to argue with what he did in last year's cycle but if we have 3 1AD's it does not leave a lot of room for catching up. Williams going down just kills any momentum. He would be the glue on this years team and the difference in being legit contenders. Now he is chasing yet again at the PG position and razor thin in depth this year and it is looking bleak going forward. Can't say he had other/better immediate opportunities or that I disagree with Baker and Brown (I absolutely agree with Brown and somewhat Baker) but we have 3 scholarships going to guys who could start or at minimum get 20+ minutes on this team sitting on the bench. In Spanish they say no bueno.

If BWill is back, Brown, Baker and BWill are essentially three returning starters next year. I'm not sure things are bleak.

Add in Ira as a senior at PF and DD if he returns and that's a solid veteran core before any additions. I really hope BWill is back.

The hurdle is STEEP for BWill to ever play basketball again. Maybe some experimental treatment comes out though...fingers crossed.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

baycat93 wrote:CSM was/is in a tough place going back to the 2018 recruiting cycle and is still playing catch up. Hard to argue with what he did in last year's cycle but if we have 3 1AD's it does not leave a lot of room for catching up. Williams going down just kills any momentum. He would be the glue on this years team and the difference in being legit contenders. Now he is chasing yet again at the PG position and razor thin in depth this year and it is looking bleak going forward. Can't say he had other/better immediate opportunities or that I disagree with Baker and Brown (I absolutely agree with Brown and somewhat Baker) but we have 3 scholarships going to guys who could start or at minimum get 20+ minutes on this team sitting on the bench. In Spanish they say no bueno.

If BWill is back, Brown, Baker and BWill are essentially three returning starters next year. I'm not sure things are bleak.

Add in Ira as a senior at PF and DD if he returns and that's a solid veteran core before any additions. I really hope BWill is back.

Baker, Brown, and Lee as upperclassmen is an incredible base to work from. Dalen Terry seems like a real talent - Frank Burlison says he and Zaire Williams are the two most versatile recruits on the West Coast, and that Terry can play anywhere on the perimeter due to his size, length, court vision, and energy. Reminds him of Delon Wright.

I'm not at all upset that we have those three new additions locked in for next year, along with whoever returns.

I should have clarified: bleak at PG. I realized after writing it I sounded doom and gloom- ish. The BW situation (as apparent as it was) hit me and I feel sad, which has kinda affected the way I feel about the program in general. Just a huge bummer for everyone involved and devastating for BW.

CSM's calculated decision to get two HIGH level traditional transfers is certainly a great move to shore up next year. A this year/next year trade-off i don't think he has made before. If Baker somehow can get cleared for '19/'20 it would certainly go a long way in providing depth where we desperately need it.

Alieberman wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:Well Oregon just got a whole lot better for next year.

Good. Maybe the Pac won't be hot garbage and an RPI drag.

ESPN's Jeff Borzello (Yeah I know... fuck ESPN) has in his way too early pre-season rankings

17 Oregon
18 Arizona
23 Washington
24 Colorado
26 USC

If this is anywhere close to reality, the PAC will be much much better

Fuck Oregon

Seems rosters still aren't finalized elsewhere. Ours as well? Are we still reaching out to any transfers?

ChooChooCat wrote:Well Oregon just got a whole lot better for next year.

Can't wait for them to suck all year until March.

Think our backcourt is better than Oregon's, though. It's been a while since we could say that.

Beachcat97 wrote:Think our backcourt is better than Oregon's, though. It's been a while since we could say that.

Trier and PJC was arguably better than Pritchard and Brown in '17-18. Win shares and BPM both favor the Zona pairing. York / Trier was arguably better than Benson / Dorsey in '15-16. TJ was better than Joe Young in both of his years, without mentioning Stanley and Nick (who were miles better than Benson and Calliste, respectively).

So last year they got us (bc everyone got us) and in '16-17 they win the comparison bc of Trier's suspension (though if we're picking at year end, I'd still take Allen and Trier over freshman Pritchard and jr. Benson).

We've consistently had a better backcourt than Oregon, imo. They've benefited from great wing and post play over the last few years - dudes who are 6'7" to 6'10" have showed out for them, while we missed on recruits or had injuries to the guys we've gotten at that size range over the last four seasons.

Edit: I don't think our backcourt will be significantly better than Oregon's this year, despite my love for Nico. Prtichard as a senior is an all conference player and their grad transfer > our grad transfer (five inches taller and a better outside shooter).

YoDeFoe wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:Think our backcourt is better than Oregon's, though. It's been a while since we could say that.

Trier and PJC was arguably better than Pritchard and Brown in '17-18. Win shares and BPM both favor the Zona pairing. York / Trier was arguably better than Benson / Dorsey in '15-16. TJ was better than Joe Young in both of his years, without mentioning Stanley and Nick (who were miles better than Benson and Calliste, respectively).

So last year they got us (bc everyone got us) and in '16-17 they win the comparison bc of Trier's suspension (though if we're picking at year end, I'd still take Allen and Trier over freshman Pritchard and jr. Benson).

We've consistently had a better backcourt than Oregon, imo. They've benefited from great wing and post play over the last few years - dudes who are 6'7" to 6'10" have showed out for them, while we missed on recruits or had injuries to the guys we've gotten at that size range over the last four seasons.

Edit: I don't think our backcourt will be significantly better than Oregon's this year, despite my love for Nico. Prtichard as a senior is an all conference player and their grad transfer > our grad transfer (five inches taller and a better outside shooter).

I'm not sure about 16-17. Kadeem, Kobi, Rawle, PJC and half a year of Trier is very close to Ennis, Pritchard, Dorsey and Benson. Dorsey rotated 2 to 3 like Rawle, so it's fair to have him in the mix.

This is largely bc I think Kadeem was super underrated as a senior.

What stands out is the lack of elite 6'7" - 6'9" guys we've had since AG/RHJ in the 2013 class and Stanley in 2014. Oregon has lived off of those dudes in their recent success and those three guys were a huge part of our back to back E8 runs. Our history:

* 2014 - Craig Victor (transfer)
* 2015 - Ray Smith (medically retired)
* 2017 - Ira Lee (warming up... mostly a post player to date though)
* 2017 - Eman Akot (transfer)
* 2018 - Omar Thielemans (transfer)

Filling in... we've had Mark Tollefsen, Ryan Anderson, Mark Tollefson, Ryan Luther, and now Stone Gettings as mid-major transfers.

This season we can scooch Josh Green into that category with his strength and wingspan, though like Stanley he prefers to play at the two. I suppose it comes down to Ray Smith's freak injuries (back to back ffs), the miss on Akot, and the loss of the 2018 class that would have included Nassir Little.

YoDeFoe wrote:What stands out is the lack of elite 6'7" - 6'9" guys we've had since AG/RHJ in the 2013 class and Stanley in 2014. Oregon has lived off of those dudes in their recent success and those three guys were a huge part of our back to back E8 runs. Our history:

* 2014 - Craig Victor (transfer)
* 2015 - Ray Smith (medically retired)
* 2017 - Ira Lee (warming up... mostly a post player to date though)
* 2017 - Eman Akot (transfer)
* 2018 - Omar Thielemans (transfer)

Filling in... we've had Mark Tollefsen, Ryan Anderson, Mark Tollefson, Ryan Luther, and now Stone Gettings as mid-major transfers.

This season we can scooch Josh Green into that category with his strength and wingspan, though like Stanley he prefers to play at the two. I suppose it comes down to Ray Smith's freak injuries (back to back ffs), the miss on Akot, and the loss of the 2018 class that would have included Nassir Little.

Ray Smith, through no fault of his own, nailed us in back to back years. We thought he'd be back after the medical redshirt, then...pop. Poor kid.

I'd toss Justin Simon on that list even though he wasn't 6'7. He had the wingspan of a player that brings what you pinpoint as lacking. I do feel like Green is a return to the Rondae/Stan type wings we had for a bit there.

Dalen Terry is promising as a longer wing too. If we can keep DD, he's another bigish wing. I'll say this, Nnaji is almost in the profile of player you're discussing. He's bigger, but has a lot of the athleticism and game of the stretch 4 Oregon has used.

YoDeFoe wrote:What stands out is the lack of elite 6'7" - 6'9" guys we've had since AG/RHJ in the 2013 class and Stanley in 2014. Oregon has lived off of those dudes in their recent success and those three guys were a huge part of our back to back E8 runs. Our history:

* 2014 - Craig Victor (transfer)
* 2015 - Ray Smith (medically retired)
* 2017 - Ira Lee (warming up... mostly a post player to date though)
* 2017 - Eman Akot (transfer)
* 2018 - Omar Thielemans (transfer)

Filling in... we've had Mark Tollefsen, Ryan Anderson, Mark Tollefson, Ryan Luther, and now Stone Gettings as mid-major transfers.

This season we can scooch Josh Green into that category with his strength and wingspan, though like Stanley he prefers to play at the two. I suppose it comes down to Ray Smith's freak injuries (back to back ffs), the miss on Akot, and the loss of the 2018 class that would have included Nassir Little.

This is all true, but it's also true that Aaron Gordon and Rondae Hollis-Jefferson were amazing -- truly amazing -- defenders and rebounders whom, on the offensive end, opponents could just sag off of. They could really only score off offensive rebounds.

Stanley Johnson had this look on the court like he was just trying to adjust to the college game, and was overmatched by all the lesser talented, more experienced opponents on the floor. By the time he was finally ready to play for real, he took a poke to the eye, got drafted high on potential, and that was the end of that.

All this program has ever really needed was a real point guard together with players who are actual scoring threats. We've literally never had that combination since the Lute Olson days. Please, nobody tell me that the game has changed. I know the game has changed, but other teams have had real point guards together with players who are actual scoring threats. I'm hoping we're about to be one of those teams starting now, and that this is the beginning of a new era.

Who would you categorize as a actual scoring threat for the upcoming season? BW would have filled that role nicely.

Dave wrote:Who would you categorize as a actual scoring threat for the upcoming season? BW would have filled that role nicely.

Nico, Jeter, Green and Nnaji, in that order. Nico didn't drop 28 in 26 minutes at the Hoop Summit by accident. Jeter has a legit post game.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Dave wrote:Who would you categorize as a actual scoring threat for the upcoming season? BW would have filled that role nicely.

Nico, Jeter, Green and Nnaji, in that order. Nico didn't drop 28 in 26 minutes at the Hoop Summit by accident. Jeter has a legit post game.

Yeah, I feel like people are forgetting that Jeter was easily our best player before he got undercut by Tinkle. Every time I saw him make a move in the post, I felt like it was a great shot for our team.
I really really love this frontcourt with Jeter, Zeke and Ira. So many different looks and each one of those players are gonna get their fair share of buckets.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Dave wrote:Who would you categorize as a actual scoring threat for the upcoming season? BW would have filled that role nicely.

Nico, Jeter, Green and Nnaji, in that order. Nico didn't drop 28 in 26 minutes at the Hoop Summit by accident. Jeter has a legit post game.

For those who think Jeter is a little vanilla to be ranked second here...

I'll emphasize that Jeter was an excellent roll man last season, putting up a screaming 1.33 points per possession as the roll man in the PnR. He should look even better this season with Nico feeding him (a bigger, more dangerous guard who has exceptional timing) and with better spacing due to better shooters and slashers on the kick out.

In the end though, I'm hoping that Green is second on the list with more than 13ppg - behind Nico with 15 or more. Since we only get those two for one season, it ought to be a great one.

I want to see D Smith scoring 10+ points a game... all in garbage time in the last 5 minutes of the game as we are resting all of our actual rotation players.

YoDeFoe wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Dave wrote:Who would you categorize as a actual scoring threat for the upcoming season? BW would have filled that role nicely.

Nico, Jeter, Green and Nnaji, in that order. Nico didn't drop 28 in 26 minutes at the Hoop Summit by accident. Jeter has a legit post game.

For those who think Jeter is a little vanilla to be ranked second here...

I'll emphasize that Jeter was an excellent roll man last season, putting up a screaming 1.33 points per possession as the roll man in the PnR. He should look even better this season with Nico feeding him (a bigger, more dangerous guard who has exceptional timing) and with better spacing due to better shooters and slashers on the kick out.

In the end though, I'm hoping that Green is second on the list with more than 13ppg - behind Nico with 15 or more. Since we only get those two for one season, it ought to be a great one.

This is not based as much in stats, but my subjective thought is Jeter was very difficult to stop 1 to 1 in the post. He was (as you'd think) less efficient out of the double, but singled up, he was very good about getting the shots he wanted.

People also forget our season tanked exactly at the point Jeter had his back injury. He brought a lot to us. I would say he's comparable with the best post scorers we've had in the Miller era except for DWill's otherworldly soph season.

Three Man Weave got to us today, and did quite an excellent job I think.

https://www.three-man-weave.com/3mw/ari ... eview-2020" target="_blank

prh wrote:Three Man Weave got to us today, and did quite an excellent job I think.

https://www.three-man-weave.com/3mw/ari ... eview-2020" target="_blank

They do a great job - good writing and good analysis combined is a real treat, especially in college basketball.

I was surprised by the on/off numbers for Ira Lee... disappointed, really. Both the offense and defense suffered with him on the floor (across the board, including rebounding) but that could also be a factor of Lee really only playing with Luther in the post (Lee only played with Jeter on 2% of possessions in the last five games of the season). So really what we're seeing in those numbers is the deficiencies of the Lee/Luther combo.

Look at me talking myself into more Ira Lee. It's like 2018 all over again.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

YoDeFoe wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Dave wrote:Who would you categorize as a actual scoring threat for the upcoming season? BW would have filled that role nicely.

Nico, Jeter, Green and Nnaji, in that order. Nico didn't drop 28 in 26 minutes at the Hoop Summit by accident. Jeter has a legit post game.

For those who think Jeter is a little vanilla to be ranked second here...

I'll emphasize that Jeter was an excellent roll man last season, putting up a screaming 1.33 points per possession as the roll man in the PnR. He should look even better this season with Nico feeding him (a bigger, more dangerous guard who has exceptional timing) and with better spacing due to better shooters and slashers on the kick out.

In the end though, I'm hoping that Green is second on the list with more than 13ppg - behind Nico with 15 or more. Since we only get those two for one season, it ought to be a great one.

This is not based as much in stats, but my subjective thought is Jeter was very difficult to stop 1 to 1 in the post. He was (as you'd think) less efficient out of the double, but singled up, he was very good about getting the shots he wanted.

People also forget our season tanked exactly at the point Jeter had his back injury. He brought a lot to us. I would say he's comparable with the best post scorers we've had in the Miller era except for DWill's otherworldly soph season.

Now I'll go the other way... I think Jeter's post game is vanilla. He's very efficient turning over his left shoulder with both a hook shot or working up and under - but he has no right shoulder or face-up game. 77% of his post attempts were over his left shoulder. He also heavily favors the right block, taking 70% of his attempts from there.

prh wrote:Three Man Weave got to us today, and did quite an excellent job I think.

https://www.three-man-weave.com/3mw/ari ... eview-2020" target="_blank

Nice little write-up.

But as far as feeling sorry for Arizona fans for all we have to endure, it's not something an outsider can really understand. Could fans from other programs take what fate dishes out to Arizona fans on any given day and stay on their feet? Of course not. You can't put a shortstop inside the boxing ring and expect him to take a solid beating, either.

But by going through it constantly, Arizona fans have a different perspective and coping strategies. Unlike other fans, we wake up every morning, look in the bathroom mirror, and tell ourselves, "Today is going to be a really bad day." And then we open up our computer or turn on the TV, and it is. We're prepared for the blow of the bad news every day.

And there's so much bad news that, looking back at the timeline of awful events in the manner of that Three Man Weave article, we can hardly remember any of them in particular. They just kind of blend together into a big, dull blur that keeps us burdened, but still on our feet, walking shakily up the mountain toward the next punishment.

So no, Three Man Weave. Being an Arizona fan isn't exhausting. We're just kind of sick and hurt all the time, and it defines who we are to the point that we don't even know the alternative anymore.

Alieberman wrote:I want to see D Smith scoring 10+ points a game... all in garbage time in the last 5 minutes of the game as we are resting all of our actual rotation players.

i dont want to see Smith doing anything

YoDeFoe wrote:
Trier and PJC was arguably better than Pritchard and Brown in '17-18.

and Cartwright plus anyone wasnt better than anyone - ever

YoDeFoe wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

YoDeFoe wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Dave wrote:Who would you categorize as a actual scoring threat for the upcoming season? BW would have filled that role nicely.

Nico, Jeter, Green and Nnaji, in that order. Nico didn't drop 28 in 26 minutes at the Hoop Summit by accident. Jeter has a legit post game.

For those who think Jeter is a little vanilla to be ranked second here...

I'll emphasize that Jeter was an excellent roll man last season, putting up a screaming 1.33 points per possession as the roll man in the PnR. He should look even better this season with Nico feeding him (a bigger, more dangerous guard who has exceptional timing) and with better spacing due to better shooters and slashers on the kick out.

In the end though, I'm hoping that Green is second on the list with more than 13ppg - behind Nico with 15 or more. Since we only get those two for one season, it ought to be a great one.

This is not based as much in stats, but my subjective thought is Jeter was very difficult to stop 1 to 1 in the post. He was (as you'd think) less efficient out of the double, but singled up, he was very good about getting the shots he wanted.

People also forget our season tanked exactly at the point Jeter had his back injury. He brought a lot to us. I would say he's comparable with the best post scorers we've had in the Miller era except for DWill's otherworldly soph season.

Now I'll go the other way... I think Jeter's post game is vanilla. He's very efficient turning over his left shoulder with both a hook shot or working up and under - but he has no right shoulder or face-up game. 77% of his post attempts were over his left shoulder. He also heavily favors the right block, taking 70% of his attempts from there.

Vanilla can work well. Shaquille O'Neal wasn't particularly diverse, but he dunked on people a lot.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Vanilla can work well. Shaquille O'Neal wasn't particularly diverse, but he dunked on people a lot.

but Shaq is often overlooked for his ballerina like feet and bottom half - if we go back and watch the tape he was unbelievable at spinning and moving his feet and for a man of his size.

yes he created so much space from his girth and size that we often (myself included) forget just how nimble and fleet of foot he was, and dont remember in our minds eye the ridiculous balance and athleticism for a man of his size, heck any size.

further as a pro, when he developed his touch with both hands, is when he truly became unstoppable - he added one handed jumpers and hooks on the block to his game and the ELITE level success followed; when he added those skill level elements to the shear power in his game is when he really became one of the best centers of all time..culminating in three straight finals MVP's.

only other player to have accomplished that type of finals dominance???

you guessed it, Michael Jordan.

97cats wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Vanilla can work well. Shaquille O'Neal wasn't particularly diverse, but he dunked on people a lot.

but Shaq is often overlooked for his ballerina like feet and bottom half - if we go back and watch the tape he was unbelievable at spinning and moving his feet and for a man of his size.

yes he created so much space from his girth and size that we often (myself included) forget just how nimble and fleet of foot he was, and dont remember in our minds eye the ridiculous balance and athleticism for a man of his size, heck any size.

further as a pro, when he developed his touch with both hands is when he truly became unstoppable - one handed jumpers and hooks on the block to his game to unworldly new heights and success; when he added that element to the shear power you mention is when he really became one of the best centers of all time..culminating in three straight finals MVP's.

only other player to have accomplished that type of finals dominance???

you guessed it, Michael Jordan.

Well, I'm excited to see Jeter as a senior with these type of comparisons floating around.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Well, I'm excited to see Jeter as a senior with these type of comparisons floating around.

myself, i would compare Jeter and his skill set/foot work/positioning and make-up more to a very, very, very poor mans Kevin McHale than Shaq but thats just me

97cats wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Well, I'm excited to see Jeter as a senior with these type of comparisons floating around.

myself, i would compare Jeter and his skill set/foot work/positioning and make-up more to a very, very, very poor mans Kevin McHale than Shaq but thats just me

I was just joking with the comparisons.

My only point with Shaq is that effectiveness can trump variety.

In Chase's example, a 20.7 PER and .590 TSP are both indicators for me that even if he's a bit one dimensional, that one dimension tends to be fairly effective.

Dusan Ristic was 21.7 and .586 as a junior and increased as a senior. I think that's a reasonable comparison point, at least as far as post game goes. Jeter is much faster and a much better defender.

all good points, and i know you werent comparing him to Shaq in the first few posts, it was the "excited to see the comparisons" post that i was chatting about - and i get it for sure.

thats why i said Kevin McHale which is still a GINORMOUS stretch for Jeter

Go Cats!!