Bear Down Wildcats

repost it here

http://espn.go.com/ncb/notebook/_/page/ ... 50-coaches
where will miller end up?

Top 10 for sure I'd think. But you never know with the talking heads in Bristol.

Personally, and I love CSM, but I don't think he deserves top 10.

Elite 8's are nice...but he hasn't been to a Final 4, and so many other coaches have been. I feel the same way about UA frankly...I think we are nearly an elite program, and have literally come from nowhere a few decades ago...but our blood isn't quite blue yet.

I'm ok with anything in the top-15. He's top-5 young coach, maybe top-3, but it's an odd time in coaching because of the soon-to-be-retiring lot.

I'd put him 8-9, but I can see a bump down since no Final 4s yet.

Probably around 10 or 11

I figure that Coach K, Roy Williams, Pitino, Ollie, Self, Calipari, Donovan, Boehim and Izzo will be ahead of him. Then most likely ESPN will blow Greg Marshall too and put him ahead and then comes Miller

TyAbbottGotOwned wrote:Probably around 10 or 11

I figure that Coach K, Roy Williams, Pitino, Ollie, Self, Calipari, Donovan, Boehim and Izzo will be ahead of him. Then most likely ESPN will blow Greg Marshall too and put him ahead and then comes Miller

Putting Ollie ahead of Miller makes me sick to my stomach.

Alieberman wrote:

TyAbbottGotOwned wrote:Probably around 10 or 11

I figure that Coach K, Roy Williams, Pitino, Ollie, Self, Calipari, Donovan, Boehim and Izzo will be ahead of him. Then most likely ESPN will blow Greg Marshall too and put him ahead and then comes Miller

Putting Ollie ahead of Miller makes me sick to my stomach.

I don't entirely disagree, but its just how these kind of yearly offseason rankings work

ollie is getting all the love just from that 1 6 game stretch obviously. outside of that, he's 46-14 in his first 1 years with no conference titles and a 22-14 conference record. them getting hot for 6 games makes him a top 10 coach.

No. The ring does.

still. 6 games don't a coaching career make.

I'm fine if ESPN ranks Ollie over Miller. It doesn't alter the fact that Arizona has the right guy.

Spaceman, did you have another handle at goazcats? Or new poster on the scene? Just curious!

pokinmik wrote:Spaceman, did you have another handle at goazcats? Or new poster on the scene? Just curious!

I was Pooh Man. On this new board, I'm here to conquer the galaxy.

And Sean Miller is still #1 on my list of coaches who are best for Arizona.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

pokinmik wrote:Spaceman, did you have another handle at goazcats? Or new poster on the scene? Just curious!

I was Pooh Man. On this new board, I'm here to conquer the galaxy.

And Sean Miller is still #1 on my list of coaches who are best for Arizona.

Haha sweet.

Yep same here, I seriously wouldn't trade Miller for any other coach.

Kevin Ollie's going to be another Altman train wreck at UConn in a couple more seasons.

No enmity here--he just really doesn't have much control over that program.

the couple of people that changed their names are confusing to me....i have no context in which to place your posts..

Maybe have those with different names put their GoAzCats name in their sig.

Laughing at UCLA with the 36th best coach. I'd probably put him a little bit higher, but the neighborhood is correct.

Miller is top 10. Can he crack top 5? I'd guess they go with guys with more historical final fours in comparison to a "who is the best coach right at this moment" kind of analysis.

I wouldn't want a coach over Miller. However, I could rattle off 10 coaches with more accomplishments...today.

Now in a year?

Well that's a different story...

Sean made the Top 20. Now it's just a matter of seeing how high. I think 7-10 is where he'll end up.

Archie comes in at #26 btw.

Ollie won a title with remnants of the Calhoun era, but it is hard to put him up there with the elite coaches in the game right now. No one really knows if he will ultimately rebuild UConn into a power-house. I certainly wouldn't put him ahead of Larry Brown.

I don't see how you justify Thad Matta at #20.

If you're going off of accomplishments he's probably 10-15 range but if you asked any program who they would want to coach their program for the long run Miller is top 5 easy - maybe top 3

They're basing the rankings on a coach's value right now. It's not about career accomplishments. I'm more interested in where they place K than Miller. There aren't 5 better coaches in the country right now than CSM. If someone misses that, I don't give a damn. We dealt with an unappreciated coach for 25+ years. CSM will win at least 1 title in the next 5 years.

UAdevil wrote:Top 10 for sure I'd think. But you never know with the talking heads in Bristol.

No Final Fours makes a top 10 coach?

I'm all about Coach Miller, but post season success is needed.

I find ESPN's rankings...unsatisfactory.

salim'sheadband wrote:I find ESPN's rankings...unsatisfactory.

When are we going to see the annual SHB's coaches rankings? Looking forward to it as always!

Roy comes in at #16:

http://espn.go.com/ncb/notebook/_/page/ ... y-williams

salim'sheadband wrote:I find ESPN's rankings...unsatisfactory.

Have you been reading Nero Wolfe?


If so. . . very satisfactory.

Jim placed at #12

cats101 wrote:Jim placed at #12

Boeheim at 12?? Behind Shaka?? These rankings are quickly losing credibility. But then, Eammon Brennan is one of the voters, so I guess credibility was strained from the get go.

These rankings are odd to say the least. It is not clear what the criteria is. ESPN's love affair with Shaka is comical; yes he lead a mid-major to a final four, but it isn't like the guy is running a major program in a major conference who needs to recruit 5-star talent every year to stay relevant. Boeheim and Williams are top-ten coaches. Seriously, putting aside personal likes and dislikes on this board towards opposing coaches and teams; does anyone in the coaching world truly hold Shaka in higher regard than Williams? On one hand, you have a coach with huge winning percentages at both Kansas and North Carolina, multiple final fours, national championships, deep tournament runs, coached in countless major games against other major programs, who has put a large amount of players in the NBA -- on another hand, you have a young coach at a mid-major caliber program in VCU with one final four run with nowhere near the same resume and ongoing program demands. ESPN has lost it.

midnightx wrote:These rankings are odd to say the least. It is not clear what the criteria is. ESPN's love affair with Shaka is comical; yes he lead a mid-major to a final four, but it isn't like the guy is running a major program in a major conference who needs to recruit 5-star talent every year to stay relevant. Boeheim and Williams are top-ten coaches. Seriously, putting aside personal likes and dislikes on this board towards opposing coaches and teams; does anyone in the coaching world truly hold Shaka in higher regard than Williams? On one hand, you have a coach with huge winning percentages at both Kansas and North Carolina, multiple final fours, national championships, deep tournament runs, coached in countless major games against other major programs, who has put a large amount of players in the NBA -- on another hand, you have a young coach at a mid-major caliber program in VCU with one final four run with nowhere near the same resume and ongoing program demands. ESPN has lost it.

While I sure don't agree with Shaka over Roy as things stand today, but they're making these rankings based on who are the best coaches today not who were the best coaches. Resumes are pretty much put to the side in these rankings. If you're a school would you hire Roy Williams over Sean Miller today for instance? I didn't use Shaka as an example because I'm still far from sold on him as a coach. It's going to be comical that Kevin Ollie will be ranked as highly as he is when the door is more than wide open on him right now. I've seen Tubby Smith and Mike Davis do wonders with another coach's players only to fall off in a matter of years.

ElGatoBlanco wrote:

midnightx wrote:These rankings are odd to say the least. It is not clear what the criteria is. ESPN's love affair with Shaka is comical; yes he lead a mid-major to a final four, but it isn't like the guy is running a major program in a major conference who needs to recruit 5-star talent every year to stay relevant. Boeheim and Williams are top-ten coaches. Seriously, putting aside personal likes and dislikes on this board towards opposing coaches and teams; does anyone in the coaching world truly hold Shaka in higher regard than Williams? On one hand, you have a coach with huge winning percentages at both Kansas and North Carolina, multiple final fours, national championships, deep tournament runs, coached in countless major games against other major programs, who has put a large amount of players in the NBA -- on another hand, you have a young coach at a mid-major caliber program in VCU with one final four run with nowhere near the same resume and ongoing program demands. ESPN has lost it.

While I sure don't agree with Shaka over Roy as things stand today, but they're making these rankings based on who are the best coaches today not who were the best coaches. Resumes are pretty much put to the side in these rankings. If you're a school would you hire Roy Williams over Sean Miller today for instance? I didn't use Shaka as an example because I'm still far from sold on him as a coach. It's going to be comical that Kevin Ollie will be ranked as highly as he is when the door is more than wide open on him right now. I've seen Tubby Smith and Mike Davis do wonders with another coach's players only to fall off in a matter of years.

The term "another coaches players" always cracks me up. Sure, coaches inherit players...but to say that Tubby didn't do a hell of a job getting that team over a hump to win a natty, when Pitino couldn't do that over a 4 seed, says something. I get that Kevin Ollie did what he did with "Calhoun's players" and that we can wait to see how good he is when he has to coach his "own players". But, he did a hell of a job with a team that absolutely nobody picked to win it all...it's not like anyone looked at the team that was on probation in UConn and said "That's a championship team right there in a few years..."

Its one thing to be a Roy or Coach K and have some clout just by being who you are over the years. It's another thing to take something over that is in disarray and do something with it. People still knock Miller for his first Elite 8 at UA, cause he did it with "Floyd's players"...which is an absolute fucking joke.

Speaking of Miller, If there is one reason, and one reason alone that Miller shouldn't be considered a top coach right now, today, it's because he hasn't gotten to that last weekend in the tourney. Once that is accomplished...watch out.

Boeheim is too high imo

Olsondogg wrote:

ElGatoBlanco wrote:

midnightx wrote:These rankings are odd to say the least. It is not clear what the criteria is. ESPN's love affair with Shaka is comical; yes he lead a mid-major to a final four, but it isn't like the guy is running a major program in a major conference who needs to recruit 5-star talent every year to stay relevant. Boeheim and Williams are top-ten coaches. Seriously, putting aside personal likes and dislikes on this board towards opposing coaches and teams; does anyone in the coaching world truly hold Shaka in higher regard than Williams? On one hand, you have a coach with huge winning percentages at both Kansas and North Carolina, multiple final fours, national championships, deep tournament runs, coached in countless major games against other major programs, who has put a large amount of players in the NBA -- on another hand, you have a young coach at a mid-major caliber program in VCU with one final four run with nowhere near the same resume and ongoing program demands. ESPN has lost it.

While I sure don't agree with Shaka over Roy as things stand today, but they're making these rankings based on who are the best coaches today not who were the best coaches. Resumes are pretty much put to the side in these rankings. If you're a school would you hire Roy Williams over Sean Miller today for instance? I didn't use Shaka as an example because I'm still far from sold on him as a coach. It's going to be comical that Kevin Ollie will be ranked as highly as he is when the door is more than wide open on him right now. I've seen Tubby Smith and Mike Davis do wonders with another coach's players only to fall off in a matter of years.

The term "another coaches players" always cracks me up. Sure, coaches inherit players...but to say that Tubby didn't do a hell of a job getting that team over a hump to win a natty, when Pitino couldn't do that over a 4 seed, says something. I get that Kevin Ollie did what he did with "Calhoun's players" and that we can wait to see how good he is when he has to coach his "own players". But, he did a hell of a job with a team that absolutely nobody picked to win it all...it's not like anyone looked at the team that was on probation in UConn and said "That's a championship team right there in a few years..."

Its one thing to be a Roy or Coach K and have some clout just by being who you are over the years. It's another thing to take something over that is in disarray and do something with it. People still knock Miller for his first Elite 8 at UA, cause he did it with "Floyd's players"...which is an absolute fucking joke.

Speaking of Miller, If there is one reason, and one reason alone that Miller shouldn't be considered a top coach right now, today, it's because he hasn't gotten to that last weekend in the tourney. Once that is accomplished...watch out.

Got that team over the hump? That main group of players went to 3 straight national championship games and won the year before that 4 seed beat them. Spare me that talk as if Tubby did something astounding. The hump...that's funny.

I don't get the Floyd/Miller comparison seeing as Miller coached all those players from when they were freshmen. Calhoun brought in and coached Boatright, Daniels, and Napier from when they were freshmen and needless to say that was the core of that UCONN team this year. That comparison just falls flat on its face. Tubby Smith won a title with a Pitino team and was never able to get to the Final Four after that. Mike Davis made the NCAA Finals at Indiana with Bobby Knight's players and then couldn't make it past the 2nd round of the tournament after that.

The book is very much wide open on Ollie. Literally the only coach put in that situation that went on to any sort of big success after the fact was Steve Fisher.

UAGreg wrote:Sean made the Top 20. Now it's just a matter of seeing how high. I think 7-10 is where he'll end up.

Archie comes in at #26 btw.

That is pretty cool. All the best to Archie; the future is wide open.

ElGatoBlanco wrote:
Got that team over the hump? That main group of players went to 3 straight national championship games and won the year before that 4 seed beat them. Spare me that talk as if Tubby did something astounding. The hump...that's funny.

I don't get the Floyd/Miller comparison seeing as Miller coached all those players from when they were freshmen. Calhoun brought in and coached Boatright, Daniels, and Napier from when they were freshmen and needless to say that was the core of that UCONN team this year. That comparison just falls flat on its face. Tubby Smith won a title with a Pitino team and was never able to get to the Final Four after that. Mike Davis made the NCAA Finals at Indiana with Bobby Knight's players and then couldn't make it past the 2nd round of the tournament after that.

The book is very much wide open on Ollie. Literally the only coach put in that situation that went on to any sort of big success after the fact was Steve Fisher.

Yes, got them over the hump. If you think that replacing a legend at UK, with all the criticism that Tubby endured, and taking that team all the way to a title is something less than astounding, then I'd hate to see what qualifies in your book.

So Tubby Smith...went to the Elite 8 three times after his national championship run. Won 76% of his games at UK, and never missed a tourney. Maybe that wasnt' good enough for UK fans, but then they got this guy:



How'd that work out?


I'm so glad you like to disparage coaches that replace legends at big time programs and act as if it is easy...and that any success should only be attributed to the prior regime.



Book "very much wide open on Ollie"...ok great. Tell him that next time you see him, when he is staring at his ring and counting his $$$. Dude did a hell of a job this past year with what he inherited.

Best coach without a final four and it looks like ESPN agrees, although this list is still in inconsistent imo. Need to get over the hump this year.

Eamonn is back on my list. Fuckin idiot says OLSEN in his article. Douche.

Olsondogg wrote:

ElGatoBlanco wrote:
Got that team over the hump? That main group of players went to 3 straight national championship games and won the year before that 4 seed beat them. Spare me that talk as if Tubby did something astounding. The hump...that's funny.

I don't get the Floyd/Miller comparison seeing as Miller coached all those players from when they were freshmen. Calhoun brought in and coached Boatright, Daniels, and Napier from when they were freshmen and needless to say that was the core of that UCONN team this year. That comparison just falls flat on its face. Tubby Smith won a title with a Pitino team and was never able to get to the Final Four after that. Mike Davis made the NCAA Finals at Indiana with Bobby Knight's players and then couldn't make it past the 2nd round of the tournament after that.

The book is very much wide open on Ollie. Literally the only coach put in that situation that went on to any sort of big success after the fact was Steve Fisher.

Yes, got them over the hump. If you think that replacing a legend at UK, with all the criticism that Tubby endured, and taking that team all the way to a title is something less than astounding, then I'd hate to see what qualifies in your book.

So Tubby Smith...went to the Elite 8 three times after his national championship run. Won 76% of his games at UK, and never missed a tourney. Maybe that wasnt' good enough for UK fans, but then they got this guy:



How'd that work out?


I'm so glad you like to disparage coaches that replace legends at big time programs and act as if it is easy...and that any success should only be attributed to the prior regime.



Book "very much wide open on Ollie"...ok great. Tell him that next time you see him, when he is staring at his ring and counting his $$$. Dude did a hell of a job this past year with what he inherited.

Lol what criticism did Tubby endure exactly his first year? I disparage the Kevin Ollie love and I remain steadfast on my stance that the book is wide open on him and historical evidence is on my side in that regard. Tubby made the Elite 8 a few times after that national title team and went on to accomplish nothing else at Minnesota. The point is would you consider Tubby a top 10 coach at any time of his coaching career like ESPN is apparently ranking Kevin Ollie? Truthfully outside of that one national championship Tubby's time at UK is more similar to Steve Lavin's tenure at UCLA than anything resembling a top 10 coach at any point. I'm truthfully sorry that Tubby got canned for Gillispie, but finishing 6th in the SEC in your 9th year followed by a 4th place finish in your 10th wasn't going to keep that fanbase happy, especially when he finished with double digit losses in half of his 10 seasons there.

Good to know you're friends with Ollie apparently? That at least explains your take completely. Tell him I said hi and he doesn't deserve to be top 10 on any coaching list at this juncture. I hope he doesn't fall the way of Mike Davis or Tubby, but it's more likely he will than not. As it stands Ollie should hang a plaque of Shabazz Napier's face up on his wall and kiss it every day. He and Calhoun made his career.

I'm good with SM being ranked 11th. Sounds about right. And I expect him to climb into the top 10 very soon.

This one goes to 11.

National media outlets can rank him however they want. College Basketball fans can argue about his offense, lack of final fours, and "love" for the east coast. UCLA fans can bitch all they want about his press conferences, #playersprogram propaganda, intensity, and kicking their a$$ in recruiting. Larry Scott can try to ignore him all he wants. Basnight can accuse him of cheating all he wants.

But for me.....as a diehard, well informed, Arizona Basketball fan in 2014. There isn't one man I would rather have as the head coach of Arizona Basketball currently and going forward.

wouldnt trade Sean Miller for two Calipari's and a Krzyzewski

and Greg Marshall ahead of Sean Miller????

bwhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

ElGatoBlanco wrote:
Lol what criticism did Tubby endure exactly his first year? I disparage the Kevin Ollie love and I remain steadfast on my stance that the book is wide open on him and historical evidence is on my side in that regard. Tubby made the Elite 8 a few times after that national title team and went on to accomplish nothing else at Minnesota. The point is would you consider Tubby a top 10 coach at any time of his coaching career like ESPN is apparently ranking Kevin Ollie? Truthfully outside of that one national championship Tubby's time at UK is more similar to Steve Lavin's tenure at UCLA than anything resembling a top 10 coach at any point. I'm truthfully sorry that Tubby got canned for Gillispie, but finishing 6th in the SEC in your 9th year followed by a 4th place finish in your 10th wasn't going to keep that fanbase happy, especially when he finished with double digit losses in half of his 10 seasons there.

Good to know you're friends with Ollie apparently? That at least explains your take completely. Tell him I said hi and he doesn't deserve to be top 10 on any coaching list at this juncture. I hope he doesn't fall the way of Mike Davis or Tubby, but it's more likely he will than not. As it stands Ollie should hang a plaque of Shabazz Napier's face up on his wall and kiss it every day. He and Calhoun made his career.

"Outside of that one national championship"....wait, let me laugh at that while Lute is praised endlessly and rightfully so throughout the UA fanbase. Then you go on to compare Tubby to Lavin, who has only made 1 Elite 8 ever, and has never won ...classic. To defend Tubby, yet again, his 1998 national championship is unique in modern times, as being the only team in over twenty years to win without a first-team All-American or future NBA lottery pick. Also, he went to Minnesota--a team that made the NCAA's exactly once since 1999 and took them 3 times in the next 6 years...

So sorry Gato, that national champs don't matter when you "inherit players". Keep your book open, keep reading it...and let me know when some national championship winning coaches meet your standard.

97cats wrote:wouldnt trade Sean Miller for two Calipari's and a Krzyzewski

and Greg Marshall ahead of Sean Miller????

bwhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

The only way Marshall is ahead of Miller is alphabetically.