The offense just isn't built for March...

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:11 pm

To be sure, Miller's style will not allow for many of Lute’s early tourney exits. His teams play hard, tough, smart and do not beat themselves. The Wildcats dominate defensively and on the glass. Their practices focus on fundamentals and tempo among their points of emphasis.

Defensively, Miller essentially runs the "pack-line" whereby his team rarely extends beyond the 3-point line, but limits penetration and rules the boards while forcing opponents to take contested jump shots with good depth and excellent length.

It's the offensive philosophy that could determine whether this team raises a banner in Indy, or even gets there. Will Arizona ever use its athletes on both ends to expose athletic mismatches? Will Miller let all those athletes get out and run? Does the Wildcats' defensive style limit their ceiling?

Miller's offensive style is straight out of the 80s and 90s with classic motion that either isolates the post, uses high-low action or opens the lane so centers can back-screen passers in order to create driving angles, post-ups and mismatches. Arizona is meat and potatoes. Occasionally they'll run a play for an alley-oop or a 3-point shot, but motion offense, man-to-man defense and "we are tougher and better than you" is the name of the game.

In many ways that style is the same one I've questioned with Syracuse over the years. Sure the Cuse is unique with its 2-3 zone, which is undeniably effective but can also be counterproductive as teams can slow the pace against the Orange. Syracuse has better athletes than 75 percent of its competition, yet uses a defense designed for inferior athletes. The same is true in many ways with Arizona.

Arizona should want more possessions, not fewer, as it has far more talent than most of its opponents, yet doesn't shoot the ball that well in the halfcourt. Picking up full court, engaging the offense closer to the midcourt line and installing a traditional secondary-break offense would all be smart uses of the Wildcats' prodigious speed and length. Even if you miss a quick shot, a likely starting lineup including Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, Stanley Johnson or Gabe York, Brandon Ashley and Kaleb Tarczewski would get a whole lot of second shot opportunities anyway.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:42 pm

Well, I'm not sure whether this season's outcome really stands to impact Sean Miller's job security in any way, especially negatively. The general opinion (here, at least) is that he's beyond reproach, that two Pac titles and two Elite Eights in five years is pretty damn impressive, and that his recruiting ability alone puts him in a class among the best coaches in the nation.

But I wonder how anything short of a Pac title and Final Four will sit with everyone. This team is starting the season ranked higher than last season's Pac champs, and as NYC, points out, we have an abundance of NBA talent. It's not really fair to say "FF or bust," ever, given the whimsical nature of college basketball, particularly the tournament. But look at what we have: a very "team first" fifth year senior PG, one of the best frontcourts in the nation, remarkable athleticism and depth, and lots of returning guys. If they lose in the Elite Eight or earlier, are we going to pat them (and Coach Miller) on the back, and say "get 'em next year"? Or would a less-than-stellar finish raise concerns about the state of the program? Not sure.

Anyway, I think Coach Miller will get these guys playing their best by March, and I think a lot of these concerns (if they're even warranted) will go away this season.

Bear Down!

Zero · Post by **Zero** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:43 pm

And it begins.

3goggles · Post by **3goggles** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:45 pm

Oh boy here we go! Barely half way though an Exhibition game!

3goggles · Post by **3goggles** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:47 pm

We should've won this game 100-0

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:47 pm

Had to be done, offense is atrocious - cost Miller a F4 already

PieceOfMeat · Post by **PieceOfMeat** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:49 pm

Should I do a quick summation of the points that people who hate this thread will make?

Miller can't make their free throws for them. That's mental.
Miller can't make open shots for them.
The players need to step up and make shots.
Miller's offense gets them the looks, the players need to make them.
Miller's recruiting isn't an issue, these guys were good shooters in high school.

Can't think of other ones at the moment. But basically, the gist will be "this isn't on Miller". Oh, thought of another. "Let's see how this season goes before we declare his offense is an issue".

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:50 pm

Offense is fine, players just need to buy into it for 40 minutes.

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:57 pm

Merkin wrote:Offense is fine, players just need to buy into it for 40 minutes.

Miller lost/cant control his team if they're not buying in. /S

Last year Gordon & Nick were all in, offense still sucked.

Zero · Post by **Zero** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:07 pm

And they won 30 games and were a shot away from the final four.

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:11 pm

Which was lost because of offense

CBCat · Post by **CBCat** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:16 pm

NYCat wrote:Precursor: think the cats will still win by a comfortable margin, didn't want to post this after a loss.

Is horrific and always has been. And at some point he's going to have to change his old style of offense.

It's what cost a Final Four opportunity last year vs Wisconsin, and it's just looks like it will continue again this year.

I mean we have at minimum 4 NBA draftable players and its frusting to watch them do nothing. And its boring, idk if that's the word - maybe not entertaining is the phrase. I mean we have RHJ, Stanley, & Ashley and they're aren't fun to watch at all in this offense. Neither was last year with Gordon & Nick aside from any dunks they had.

Nothing has improved, Tarc still puts the ball on the floor, FTs suck, no one can shoot, still don't feed the ball down low (when they have a clear advantage there) routinely, don't take advantage of the size and clear athleticism this team possess, no intensity, no energy, etc.

I hate knowing that Another Fucking Slow Start, offensive droughts, huge portions of not scoring (5-7+ mins. like last year), barely scoring above 50 like a shitty B1G team, are for sure going to happen and will cost this team in March.

Please put a little more time in practice to practice offense, defense gives you an opportunity to compete for championships but offense wins you it - just look at last year as an example.

Its early and an exhibition game but I feel like melting down.

meh,
I've never been thrilled with Miller's O esp after 20+ yrs of Lute but what I saw tonight was about 9 guys getting in rhythem together in the second half and enjoying setting ea other up. This is Miller. #1 D in the entire D1 Basketball universe---its tough for almost all of us to wrap our heads around it. Still waiting for that knock down jumper dude like Salim or Dickerson or Terry or hell even Gardner and he will emerge I suppose one year but this is who we are and prob will always be. What I like is Miller has set Arizona and "himself" as a truely elite place for the very top 5* dudes to develop for league. There can be no question about that. And I'm ok with that. We'll take our chances with that for a possiblility for a 'ship every year.

3goggles · Post by **3goggles** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:20 pm

NYCat wrote:
Merkin wrote:Offense is fine, players just need to buy into it for 40 minutes.
Miller lost/cant control his team if they're not buying in. /S

Last year Gordon & Nick were all in, offense still sucked.

Your right he has lost his team! Fuck it we better cancel the season! I thought it was just the football team but you are just negative nancy!

waysouthcat · Post by **waysouthcat** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:30 pm

NYCat wrote:Precursor: think the cats will still win by a comfortable margin, didn't want to post this after a loss.

Is horrific and always has been. And at some point he's going to have to change his old style of offense.

It's what cost a Final Four opportunity last year vs Wisconsin, and it's just looks like it will continue again this year.

I mean we have at minimum 4 NBA draftable players and its frusting to watch them do nothing. And its boring, idk if that's the word - maybe not entertaining is the phrase. I mean we have RHJ, Stanley, & Ashley and they're aren't fun to watch at all in this offense. Neither was last year with Gordon & Nick aside from any dunks they had.

Nothing has improved, Tarc still puts the ball on the floor, FTs suck, no one can shoot, still don't feed the ball down low (when they have a clear advantage there) routinely, don't take advantage of the size and clear athleticism this team possess, no intensity, no energy, etc.

I hate knowing that Another Fucking Slow Start, offensive droughts, huge portions of not scoring (5-7+ mins. like last year), barely scoring above 50 like a shitty B1G team, are for sure going to happen and will cost this team in March.

Please put a little more time in practice to practice offense, defense gives you an opportunity to compete for championships but offense wins you it - just look at last year as an example.

Its early and an exhibition game but I feel like melting down.

Move to Cleveland buddy.

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:31 pm

Relax this is the first game.

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:34 pm

I'm not complaining about the games vs the Mount St Mary's, Cal Poly Pomona, Oregon St, UNLV, Washington State's (etc) of the world; but when games actually matter in March just like last year vs Wisconsin. This team will win the PAC 12, win 30+, #1 seed that's pretty obvious. All I'm saying is I want Sean Miller to drop his 1980s offense. Defense is there, the wear down is there, size & athleticism for the D is there - maybe spend more time on offense in practice (?!).

Hate to even quote him, but I agree.

It's the offensive philosophy that could determine whether this team raises a banner in Indy, or even gets there. Will Arizona ever use its athletes on both ends to expose athletic mismatches? Will Miller let all those athletes get out and run? Does the Wildcats' defensive style limit their offensive ceiling?

__

3goggles wrote: Your right he has lost his team! Fuck it we better cancel the season! I thought it was just the football team but you are just negative nancy!

The /s for sarcasm is there for a reason

loomer · Post by **loomer** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:44 pm

Offense looked like it picked up where it left off from last year, but it's early

CBCat · Post by **CBCat** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:53 pm

loomer wrote:Offense looked like it picked up where it left off from last year, but it's early

What's new?

But just like players, Coaches improve too...let's believe that this early.

loomer · Post by **loomer** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:04 pm

NYCat wrote:I'm not complaining about the games vs the Mount St Mary's, Cal Poly Pomona, Oregon St, UNLV, Washington State's (etc) of the world; but when games actually matter in March just like last year vs Wisconsin. This team will win the PAC 12, win 30+, #1 seed that's pretty obvious. All I'm saying is I want Sean Miller to drop his 1980s offense. Defense is there, the wear down is there, size & athleticism for the D is there - maybe spend more time on offense in practice (?!).

Hate to even quote him, but I agree.

It's the offensive philosophy that could determine whether this team raises a banner in Indy, or even gets there. Will Arizona ever use its athletes on both ends to expose athletic mismatches? Will Miller let all those athletes get out and run? Does the Wildcats' defensive style limit their offensive ceiling?

__

3goggles wrote: Your right he has lost his team! Fuck it we better cancel the season! I thought it was just the football team but you are just negative nancy!
The /s for sarcasm is there for a reason

Absolutely. We will never be an uptempo team because the packline doesn't support speed because its a low turnover rate defense(283 in tempo last year). Wisconsin beat us with a packline but that defense suits their personnel better than it suits ours. They could afford playing a slow tempo because they were an elite shooting and offensive team. We aren't fortunate enough to have those qualities so you think we would create more possessions not less possessions. Only 62 possessions tonight...

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:19 pm

Just win baby.

catgrad97 · Post by **catgrad97** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:22 pm

Great points loomer and NYCat. The packline works into April if you have players who can make contested shots out of it. Last player who did that on this team was.....Kyle Fogg?

Still think we get over the Final Four hump this year, but a couple of our starters are going to have to have a come-to-Jesus moment about their full-game intensity and knock off the soft starts once and for all.

Anybody who saw that Pomona game today can guess who I'm talking about. Hint: It won't be Ashley, Rondae or TJ.

I still see there's no shortage of insightful fans out there who think constructive criticism makes us big meanies towards the basketball and football programs though. Must be nice to think that 18- to 22-year-olds are still kids in this country.

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:31 pm

i thought the team looked great -- excellent rebounding and assists to FG's

i also thought Stanley Johnson was fantastic, i hope he plays more

CBCat · Post by **CBCat** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:39 pm

97cats wrote:i thought the team looked great -- excellent rebounding and assists to FG's

i also thought Stanley Johnson was fantastic, i hope he plays more

Stanley improved by the minute tonight. How could a player like Stanley not take advantage and love playing with this sort of talent. He's gonna have his ups and downs early thus coming off the bench, but I already feel he was "getting it" second half. You're right. He was really good second half. This is gonna be a special season. I love players like Stanley but I also love guys like PJC, watching them come in for like a couple minutes at a time and making real contributions and growing within the system, taking advantage of the talent they are playing with, feeding these guys. I think Stanley is gonna do that too. I could be wrong, but I see Miller bringing in even better talent than years past including last year. This is going to be a special season if one Brandon Ashley can really be the man this year. jmo. Somebody has to be the anchor and the rock other than the defacto TJ and for me that is Brandon.

Bosy Billups · Post by **Bosy Billups** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:57 pm

You can't be disciplined on defense and sloppy on offense at the same time.

You can't be disciplined on offense and sloppy on defense at the same time.

You can be disciplined on defense and disciplined on offense at the same time.

You can be sloppy on defense and sloppy on offense at the same time.

Which one do you want?

Daryl Zero · Post by **Daryl Zero** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:37 pm

Great Monkey Soup!

Its just the first exhibition game.

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:44 pm

Arizona is just running a defense made for less talented teams, for example Bennett at UVA is a good example when to use it. The pack line defense help less talented teams "hang in there" with better teams, but why use it if you're the better (more talented) team? Would a simple man to man defense be good enough with the size & athleticism the team has? Plain & simple it in turn limits/slows down the offense, ironically keeping less talented teams in the game.

Guess I never figured that out till today.

Again hate to quote him again but I agree with this too.

Miller's offensive style is straight out of the 80s and 90s with classic motion that either isolates the post, uses high-low action or opens the lane so centers can back-screen passers in order to create driving angles, post-ups and mismatches. Arizona is meat and potatoes. Occasionally they'll run a play for an alley-oop or a 3-point shot, but motion offense, man-to-man defense and "we are tougher and better than you" is the name of the game.

In many ways that style is the same one I've questioned with Syracuse over the years. Sure the Cuse is unique with its 2-3 zone, which is undeniably effective but can also be counterproductive as teams can slow the pace against the Orange. Syracuse has better athletes than 75 percent of its competition, yet uses a defense designed for inferior athletes. The same is true in many ways with Arizona

.

If you look at all the close games last year they were all slow paced and/or low scoring games (Stanford, SDSU, UM for example)

But let's focus on the loses here. All teams which had less talent, size & athleticism

Cal: slow paced, low scoring game (score in the high 50s), lost Ashley that game.

ASU: Slow paced, low scoring, needed 2OT to get to 60+ points

Oregon: slowish pace, scored in the high 50s (UA), this game Oregon was hitting outside shots which is how you beat the packline.

UCLA: probably an outlier as UCLA was hitting shots from everywhere, which is how you beat the pack line

Wisconsin: slow paced, low scoring game ( low 50s end of regulation before OT)

This year Miller doesn't have that elite defense,

PieceOfMeat · Post by **PieceOfMeat** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:51 pm

CSM isn't changing.

Ultimately, that's all that matters.

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:55 pm

3-3-5 isn't changing either, but I'll still complain about it.

cats101 · Post by **cats101** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:10 pm

I at least thought we would make it to the first real game before a meltdown.

elriop20 · Post by **elriop20** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:34 pm

I missed the game... Who started today??

Bosy Billups · Post by **Bosy Billups** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:42 pm

East Coast toughness in the West Coast. I love it.

AZCatGirl · Post by **AZCatGirl** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:44 pm

Everyone should take Miller's advise and not make this game bigger than it is.

PieceOfMeat · Post by **PieceOfMeat** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:47 pm

elriop20 wrote:I missed the game... Who started today??

Tarc
BAsh
TJ
RHJ
York

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:51 pm

cats101 wrote:I at least thought we would make it to the first real game before a meltdown.

What meltdown, No one's melting down here.

And this thread isn't about the exhibition game, for those who want to focus and circlejerk about that.

catgrad97 wrote: I still see there's no shortage of insightful fans out there who think constructive criticism makes us big meanies towards the basketball and football programs though. Must be nice to think that 18- to 22-year-olds are still kids in this country.

Yup

cats101 · Post by **cats101** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:56 pm

"Its early and an exhibition game but I feel like melting down."

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:59 pm

Sean Miller's offensive...

loomer · Post by **loomer** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:01 pm

Heck, Duke won a title with the packline in 2010 but guess where their offense was ranked? #1. K completely changed his philosophy with that team because they didn't have the athletes to play his signature man-man pressure. He adapted to his personnel. Wisconsin had the #49 defense but went to the FF because they had the #4 offense. The highly ranked packline teams that had elite offenses have gone far in the tourney, while the elite defenses (Arizona, Virgina) have not in recent years.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:09 pm

Can we revisit this thread at a more relevant time?

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:17 pm

loomer wrote:Heck, Duke won a title with the packline in 2010 but guess where their offense was ranked? #1. K completely changed his philosophy with that team because they didn't have the athletes to play his signature man-man pressure. He adapted to his personnel. Wisconsin had the #49 defense but went to the FF because they had the #4 offense. The highly ranked packline teams that had elite offenses have gone far in the tourney, while the elite defenses (Arizona, Virgina) have not in recent years.

Fine. But we have freaking Ashley, SJ, and RHJ -- those are some very good offensive players.

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:22 pm

PieceOfMeat wrote:Should I do a quick summation of the points that people who hate this thread will make?

Miller can't make their free throws for them. That's mental.
Miller can't make open shots for them.
The players need to step up and make shots.
Miller's offense gets them the looks, the players need to make them.
Miller's recruiting isn't an issue, these guys were good shooters in high school.

Can't think of other ones at the moment. But basically, the gist will be "this isn't on Miller". Oh, thought of another. "Let's see how this season goes before we declare his offense is an issue".

And in the spirit of equal representation... Those who love this thread may not say it directly. But they'll be thinking "This isn't the way Lute did it".

And like most of our parents, they will remember that era (which was indeed remarkable) much more fondly than it actually was. They'll forgive and forget the early tourney exits, and the utter dysfunction that clouded the program since '05 until the change in regime.

I loved Lute, and I love Miller, neither are - or ever were - perfect. Regardless of the selective memory that some posters like to embrace.

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:38 pm

NYCat wrote:I'm not complaining about the games vs the Mount St Mary's, Cal Poly Pomona, Oregon St, UNLV, Washington State's (etc) of the world; but when games actually matter in March just like last year vs Wisconsin. This team will win the PAC 12, win 30+, #1 seed that's pretty obvious.

cats101 wrote:"Its early and an exhibition game but I feel like melting down."

(E) me, i used wrong phrasing and clearly no one is melting down. Not calling for Miller's head, saying players suck or anything like that.

I'm saying because of the packline it limits the offense capabilities (read the thread, not the circkejerk comments). And as seen above I don't think the sky is falling. I'm criticizing (constructively) the offensive scheme. Which is fair, because even last year with Nick & Aaron (""""players who bought in"""") the offense sucked and cost the team a final four. Defense allows you to compete for 'ships but offense wins you it.

loomer wrote:Heck, Duke won a title with the packline in 2010 but guess where their offense was ranked? #1. K completely changed his philosophy with that team because they didn't have the athletes to play his signature man-man pressure. He adapted to his personnel. Wisconsin had the #49 defense but went to the FF because they had the #4 offense. The highly ranked packline teams that had elite offenses have gone far in the tourney, while the elite defenses (Arizona, Virgina) have not in recent years.

No one wants to believe, CBB proves over and over that a) regular season doesn't matter [UConn, UK proved that right again] b) offense wins in the tournament [along with a good guard combo].

----

I was in a lot of game threads last year and knew pretty early that the offense was a problem. Somehow everyone didnt notice it or pay attention but knew it was a big clog in the machine. I can't even think of how many games the team went 5,6, or 7 minutes w/o scoring (late in the 2nd half). The team struggled to score for big stretches of time, no only in the beginning of games, but the almost expected 2nd half drought.

Guess what cost Arizona the game vs Wisconsin? You guessed it, late 2nd half offensive drought. Nick was sole scorer but still struggling (6/16) a couple of points from RHJ and a FT or two from TJ, but other than that it was the offense struggling.

This year doesn't look any different. McConnell still won't be a legitimate offensive threat which teams have to focus on. There's still a offensive log jam where too many players play the same way, position and style (wings, last year Gordon/Ashley). No one can shoot, Yorkshire is streaky, which doesn't give any spacing for the wings. Tarczewski still puts the ball on the floor, instead of dunking or easy layup. No go to scorer, who's the floor leader/leader, who takes over (not the locker room leader)?

I don't want Lute's (offensive) teams because they sucked in March, never attended while he was a coach here and I always thought those teams would choke in the tournament, which they eventually did.

Still think they go to a F4 because if they don't it will be the biggest disappointment ever. Miller doesn't have as good of a defense though, maybe it'll open up the offense.

Bosy Billups · Post by **Bosy Billups** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 5:45 am

Not to let stats get in the way of a good story, but if I'm reading KenPom's final rankings from 2014, here they are:

1. Louisville: Adjusted O = 15, Adjusted D = 4
2. Arizona: Adjusted O = 20, Adjusted D = 1
3. Florida: Adjusted O = 18, Adjusted D = 2
4. Virginia: Adjusted O = 21, Adjusted D = 5
5. Wichita St.: Adjusted O = 8, Adjusted D = 12
6. Wisconsin: Adjusted O = 4, Adjusted D = 49
7. Tennessee: Adjusted O = 17, Adjusted D = 19
8. Connecticut: Adjusted O = 39, Adjusted D = 10

http://kenpom.com/index.php?y=2014

Moreover, how about other years?

2013
Arizona: Adjusted 0 = 10, Adjusted D = 47

2012 (obviously a transition year)
Arizona: Adjusted 0 = 86, Adjusted D = 41

2011
Arizona: Adjusted 0 = 8, Adjusted D = 88

Maybe's there is some recency bias going on here, but a top 20 O in 3 of the last 4 years does not support this thread.

Discuss...

PS - please no "doesn't pass the eye test" arguments.

illcat · Post by **illcat** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:50 am

And I thought about taking in a game or two this year but nyc and all of his infinite wisdom convinced me otherwise.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:27 am

Well, the posters certainly aren't off to a Fucking Slow Start. Pace yourselves. That Elite Eight loss and subsequent coaching search are a long way off.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:29 am

Zero wrote:And it begins.

It's exhibition posting. They'll step it up when it counts.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:34 am

Merkin wrote:Offense is fine, players just need to buy into it for 40 minutes.

52 points over the final 25 minutes. Just need to increase focus and get used to each other.

MountainCat · Post by **MountainCat** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:50 am

Does anyone remember last years exhibition game? Or the year before that?

Slow start, but this was the best one in three years. Does anyone really think that York will be a starting when the season counts? Chalk up these games to miller MAKING the freshman come off the bench AND forcing them to work their way into the line-up. By the time the games start to count, the lineup will change and the chemistry will be good.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:08 am

I think raising these points against a team that plays a match up zone might not be the best time. I do get what he is saying. Watching the cats trying to execute their perimeter game is frustrating. It consists of penetration and kick. No curl cuts, no down screens, no skip passes.

I do think the time to worry about this is when it starts to impact recruiting and that is not now. I love Miller in March so I can live with a little offensive frustration. Beats the frustration of losing to Santa Clara

salim'sheadband · Post by **salim'sheadband** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:32 am

I am responding in earnest to the OP, no sarcasm, but this isn't rocket science. As I've said before and will continue to say throughout the season, the players just need to make shots. If you actually look at our metrics when we do that compared to other teams with so-called "good" offenses there's basically no difference. We need to make about 50% of our total field goals, 37% of our 3s, and 75% of our free throws. If we can do that we will have a top-20 (aka elite) offense - as Miller has had three previous times in his ten year career. Miller couldn't "make" Gordon make shots or free throws, or TJ, or anyone else. We just didn't have good offensive players last year. Say what you will about the "scheme" but if it were that easy to get guys open for layups all the time everyone would do it, and honestly, that's the point of the motion offense anyway.

And as someone else said, if you're going off of the "eye test" I can't help you there; I don't know how to measure subjective expectations, but I will repeat the words of Coach Wooden and remind you not to confuse activity with achievement.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:43 am

salim'sheadband wrote:I am responding in earnest to the OP, no sarcasm, but this isn't rocket science. As I've said before and will continue to say throughout the season, the players just need to make shots. If you actually look at our metrics when we do that compared to other teams with so-called "good" offenses there's basically no difference. We need to make about 50% of our total field goals, 37% of our 3s, and 75% of our free throws. If we can do that we will have a top-20 (aka elite) offense - as Miller has had three previous times in his ten year career. Miller couldn't "make" Gordon make shots or free throws, or TJ, or anyone else. We just didn't have good offensive players last year. Say what you will about the "scheme" but if it were that easy to get guys open for layups all the time everyone would do it, and honestly, that's the point of the motion offense anyway.

And as someone else said, if you're going off of the "eye test" I can't help you there; I don't know how to measure subjective expectations, but I will repeat the words of Coach Wooden and remind you not to confuse activity with achievement.

We just did not have great shooters last year. Nick was Nick, but McConnell had an off year in comparison to his numbers at Duquesne, Rondae's shot was pretty bad, Gordon's wasn't that much better (and worse from the free throw line), and our best shooter went down with an injury halfway through the season. As you mentioned, without good shooters, teams will look inept on the offensive end. Shit, how many times did we as fans bitch and moan about us missing bunnies? It was like a tip drill out there at some points where it seemed like no matter how close our guys got to the basket, the ball simply would not go in even on layups.

This year we should be improved as far as shooting. I have to think that TJ will return to his past numbers. Hopefully Bash will be healthy all year. Rondae looks improved. Pitts or Gabe should give us that outside threat. And if SJ can pick and choose his spots instead of taking heat-check threes out of the rhythm of the offense like a lot of star freshman love to do, our shooting percentage will improve and this talk about Miller's offense sucking will quickly and thankfully die down.

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