Bear Down Wildcats

If the Cats want the West and to win the conference title.

Confident that they can do it if they play hard and smart and together.

Message appears to have been heard against Colorado. Come out flat against Utah while ultimately winning despite shaky FT shooting down the stretch. Same as it ever was.

This appears to be the most important homes-stand of the year. To have any aspirations of a conference title, high tournament seed, and tournament success, we have to get the sweep. For all intents and purposes, all expectations for the season are out the window with one loss this week.

Don't be silly. It's a long conference season, and nothing that happens this week will preclude UA from winning a conference title. We lose one or even two, the title isn't impossible. Just a lot harder to achieve.

Puerco wrote:Don't be silly. It's a long conference season, and nothing that happens this week will preclude UA from winning a conference title. We lose one or even two, the title isn't impossible. Just a lot harder to achieve.

Disagree. These are pretty much must win games. You have to win at home, especially against Utah. Huge weekend for UA hoops.

Utah is NOT going to win out. Losing this week might force some must-win games off in the future, but it's simply too early in the season to think we're out of it if we drop one.

Yeah there is absolutely no way games 4 and 5 of an 18 game conference season are "must wins".

OK, so if Arizona splits at home this week, does it change anybody's expectations of this team?

catgrad97 wrote:OK, so if Arizona splits at home this week, does it change anybody's expectations of this team?

Not really. It just makes the game at Utah all the more important. As Puerco said, losing one this week sets up must-wins down the road.

If we split this weekend I still expect the Cats to win the Pac-12 regular season title. With as much talent as they have, it has to be the expectation no matter the results in games 1-5.

A month ago who thought that this would even be a discussion?

Puerco wrote:Utah is NOT going to win out. Losing this week might force some must-win games off in the future, but it's simply too early in the season to think we're out of it if we drop one.

Of course Utah is not going to win out, but losing at home to them would make it that much harder to win the conf. I doubt we win out either with our inconsistant play so I think all home games are must wins.

I don't give a fuk as to what happens in January. I only care about what happens in March. This team is in a bit of a rut, yes. If a 4 game losing streak is what we need to get our heads out of our asses, then so be it. The '97 team lost 7 games in conference play..think about that. I never understood the need to count wins and losses with such obsession. What's important is how we are coming together and growing as a team. Eye on the prize.

catgrad97 wrote:OK, so if Arizona splits at home this week, does it change anybody's expectations of this team?

Of the team not necessarily but I would say Arizona goes from over 50% chance to winning the PAC-12 to less than 25% chance with a home loss to Utah and that the chances of playing in the West are dramatically reduced.

I thought it was always LV->Portland->LA->Indianapolis

If the Cats do not sweep this week I would say it will be Syracuse or Cleveland instead of LA and that is not a good thing in my opinion

threenumberones wrote:I don't give a fuk as to what happens in January. I only care about what happens in March. This team is in a bit of a rut, yes. If a 4 game losing streak is what we need to get our heads out of our asses, then so be it. The '97 team lost 7 games in conference play..think about that. I never understood the need to count wins and losses with such obsession. What's important is how we are coming together and growing as a team. Eye on the prize.

Seeding was somewhat important before, as Miller had never lost to a lower seed, but the Wisky loss changed that. Now it's all back to peaking at the right time.

KaibabKat wrote:A month ago who thought that this would even be a discussion?

Seriously? What discussion would you find unimaginable from this board a month from now? If somebody asked me a month ago whether I thought the first pair of home games after ASU was a "must sweep," I'd have thought yeah, that's a pretty stupid discussion to entertain, but I wouldn't have put it past this board even to discuss Coach Miller supposedly blaming the fans for a loss, and then "documenting" that assertion through individual private messages referencing that old, ridiculous, butt-hurt claim from the Goazcats days that Coach Miller disrespected Phoenix fans at an event for Phoenix alumni.

threenumberones wrote:I don't give a fuk as to what happens in January. I only care about what happens in March. This team is in a bit of a rut, yes. If a 4 game losing streak is what we need to get our heads out of our asses, then so be it. The '97 team lost 7 games in conference play..think about that. I never understood the need to count wins and losses with such obsession. What's important is how we are coming together and growing as a team. Eye on the prize.

I like conference titles. Miller gives a fuk, too.

So you take a detached view as these games unfold? Score is a secondary concern?

Longhorned wrote:

KaibabKat wrote:A month ago who thought that this would even be a discussion?

Seriously? What discussion would you find unimaginable from this board a month from now? If somebody asked me a month ago whether I thought the first pair of home games after ASU was a "must sweep," I'd have thought yeah, that's a pretty stupid discussion to entertain, but I wouldn't have put it past this board even to discuss Coach Miller supposedly blaming the fans for a loss, and then "documenting" that assertion through individual private messages referencing that old, ridiculous, butt-hurt claim from the Goazcats days that Coach Miller disrespected Phoenix fans at an event for Phoenix alumni.

gumby wrote:

threenumberones wrote:I don't give a fuk as to what happens in January. I only care about what happens in March. This team is in a bit of a rut, yes. If a 4 game losing streak is what we need to get our heads out of our asses, then so be it. The '97 team lost 7 games in conference play..think about that. I never understood the need to count wins and losses with such obsession. What's important is how we are coming together and growing as a team. Eye on the prize.

I like conference titles. Miller gives a fuk, too.

So you take a detached view as these games unfold? Score is a secondary concern?

Nono, I care about what happens but for me it's more about the eye test. The point is that the W and L columns aren't the end-all be-all in this sport, and there certainly aren't must-win games at this stage. There is a 68 team playoff to determine the champ for christ's sake. Sure there are extremes like missing the tourney, etc. But, for example, I'd much rather have a really pissed off 6 loss team as a 4 seed with a chip on their shoulder than a lethargic 2 loss team that waltzed in. Look at Kentucky last year.

Is it easy to control the psychology and chemistry of the team, hell no. I think it is one of the things that made Lute great. He seemed to know how and when to push buttons, and when to let the team 'grow up' themselves.

Miller cares about conference championships? Perhaps, but just a bit. I bet it is more coaches speak and a tool in his chest for motivating/focusing his players. What Miller cares about is getting better, and if we happen to win the conference during that process then so be it.

Was I pissed off on Sunday that we floundered the game away from the get go? Absolutely. Lots of blame to be shared. But I also know it's possible for a loss or two in January to put us in a better position for wins in March, and that's not a glass is half full perspective - that's just the reality of team sports.

We've had this discussion before. Obviously a lot of people don't much care about conference championships, and only the tournament matters. I'm on the other side of that. I place a conference championship above middle round success in the tourney, so these games mean more to me than just their impact on a potential tournament seed.

But I'm with you about a couple of January losses not being a huge deal in the grand scheme of things.

Longhorned wrote:

KaibabKat wrote:A month ago who thought that this would even be a discussion?

Seriously? What discussion would you find unimaginable from this board a month from now? If somebody asked me a month ago whether I thought the first pair of home games after ASU was a "must sweep," I'd have thought yeah, that's a pretty stupid discussion to entertain, but I wouldn't have put it past this board even to discuss Coach Miller supposedly blaming the fans for a loss, and then "documenting" that assertion through individual private messages referencing that old, ridiculous, butt-hurt claim from the Goazcats days that Coach Miller disrespected Phoenix fans at an event for Phoenix alumni.

You need to look up the word "private," mister.

threenumberones wrote:

gumby wrote:

threenumberones wrote:I don't give a fuk as to what happens in January. I only care about what happens in March. This team is in a bit of a rut, yes. If a 4 game losing streak is what we need to get our heads out of our asses, then so be it. The '97 team lost 7 games in conference play..think about that. I never understood the need to count wins and losses with such obsession. What's important is how we are coming together and growing as a team. Eye on the prize.

I like conference titles. Miller gives a fuk, too.

So you take a detached view as these games unfold? Score is a secondary concern?

Nono, I care about what happens but for me it's more about the eye test. The point is that the W and L columns aren't the end-all be-all in this sport, and there certainly aren't must-win games at this stage. There is a 68 team playoff to determine the champ for christ's sake. Sure there are extremes like missing the tourney, etc. But, for example, I'd much rather have a really pissed off 6 loss team as a 4 seed with a chip on their shoulder than a lethargic 2 loss team that waltzed in. Look at Kentucky last year.

Is it easy to control the psychology and chemistry of the team, hell no. I think it is one of the things that made Lute great. He seemed to know how and when to push buttons, and when to let the team 'grow up' themselves.

Miller cares about conference championships? Perhaps, but just a bit. I bet it is more coaches speak and a tool in his chest for motivating/focusing his players. What Miller cares about is getting better, and if we happen to win the conference during that process then so be it.

Was I pissed off on Sunday that we floundered the game away from the get go? Absolutely. Lots of blame to be shared. But I also know it's possible for a loss or two in January to put us in a better position for wins in March, and that's not a glass is half full perspective - that's just the reality of team sports.

Ok, but I do think Miller genuinely cares about winning the Pac-12. Think he'd like to win the Pac-12 tourney, too. And the hordes of Wildcats who show up probably expect that.

Personally, I enjoy the season from beginning to end. Obsessing about winning the NC, or worrying about supposed (and really, unknowable) consequences of this weeks results to to extent that the season is no fun doesn’t sound too good to me.

I want to win both games this week because I love watching my team play superior basketball together and win. Keep doing that, get better every week, and they’ll probably do well in the tourney. Maybe even win it all. I hope they do.

Will be pleasantly surprised if we stay within 10 of Utah on Saturday.

psiclist23 wrote:Personally, I enjoy the season from beginning to end. Obsessing about winning the NC, or worrying about supposed (and really, unknowable) consequences of this weeks results to to extent that the season is no fun doesn’t sound too good to me.

I want to win both games this week because I love watching my team play superior basketball together and win. Keep doing that, get better every week, and they’ll probably do well in the tourney. Maybe even win it all. I hope they do.

Take your holier-than-though logic and reason and get outta here!

psiclist23 wrote:Personally, I enjoy the season from beginning to end. Obsessing about winning the NC, or worrying about supposed (and really, unknowable) consequences of this weeks results to to extent that the season is no fun doesn’t sound too good to me.

I want to win both games this week because I love watching my team play superior basketball together and win. Keep doing that, get better every week, and they’ll probably do well in the tourney. Maybe even win it all. I hope they do.

I need to get back to this. Gotten so crazed that I've come to dread game days/nights. Win, and you're supposed to (and by more next time!). Lose, and holy hell.

Beachcat97 wrote:Will be pleasantly surprised if we stay within 10 of Utah on Saturday.

So you think our ceiling is 5 points better than ASU... Makes sense.

Longhorned wrote:

KaibabKat wrote:A month ago who thought that this would even be a discussion?

Seriously? What discussion would you find unimaginable from this board a month from now? If somebody asked me a month ago whether I thought the first pair of home games after ASU was a "must sweep," I'd have thought yeah, that's a pretty stupid discussion to entertain, but I wouldn't have put it past this board even to discuss Coach Miller supposedly blaming the fans for a loss, and then "documenting" that assertion through individual private messages referencing that old, ridiculous, butt-hurt claim from the Goazcats days that Coach Miller disrespected Phoenix fans at an event for Phoenix alumni.

If you had an agenda that longed for Pastner to replace Miller as head coach you would take every mis-step during the season (which even the best teams have virtually every year) and overblow its ramifications.

On the Memphis boards I bet they never imagined having an RPI in January of 88 with a record of 1-4 against teams in the Top 100 and 4-2 against teams ranked between 101-200. They are worried about making the tournament... Seeding and region are not on the radar.

Harvey Specter wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:Will be pleasantly surprised if we stay within 10 of Utah on Saturday.

So you think our ceiling is 5 points better than ASU... Makes sense.

I think our ceiling is national champs. This team has the depth and talent to win it all. Just not sure they have the chemistry, heart, or leadership.

Beachcat97 wrote:

Harvey Specter wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:Will be pleasantly surprised if we stay within 10 of Utah on Saturday.

So you think our ceiling is 5 points better than ASU... Makes sense.

I think our ceiling is national champs. This team has the depth and talent to win it all. Just not sure they have the chemistry, heart, or leadership.

Err...

Thank god we pleased machina

Scum

These two wins were huge in terms of the conference title race. Thursday is now the second biggest game the rest of the season as things stand now. A win would be very beneficial but a loss is not the end all be all.

That's at least the 4th time I've seen you use that gif. Try something new

scumdevils86 wrote:That's at least the 4th time I've seen you use that gif. Try something new

Why don't you just address the content in my post instead of me, then I would never have to think about that gif.

Seriously, what are your thoughts on how the games this week and on Thursday impact the conference title race and the goal of being a top seed in the West?

Las Vegas->Portland->Los Angeles-> Indianapolis right?

Machina wrote:

scumdevils86 wrote:That's at least the 4th time I've seen you use that gif. Try something new

Why don't you just address the content in my post instead of me, then I would never have to think about that gif.

Seriously, what are your thoughts on how the games this week and on Thursday impact the conference title race and the goal of being a top seed in the West?

Las Vegas->Portland->Los Angeles-> Indianapolis right?

All I know is that we better win in order for CSM to stay in your good graces.

Machina wrote:

scumdevils86 wrote:That's at least the 4th time I've seen you use that gif. Try something new

Why don't you just address the content in my post instead of me, then I would never have to think about that gif.

Seriously, what are your thoughts on how the games this week and on Thursday impact the conference title race and the goal of being a top seed in the West?

Las Vegas->Portland->Los Angeles-> Indianapolis right?

no thanks, there's usually nothing interesting to address in your posts.

Must Sweep This Week. Biggest road trip of the year!

until the next one.

Got to say I disagree with you. The Mountain trip is much bigger.

Remaining games as of this moment in orders of importance.

1 @Utah
2 @Stanford
3 Stanford
4 @Washington
5 @ Colorado
6 UCLA
7 Oregon
8 @ WSU
9 @ Cal
10 @ASU
11 Cal
12 Oregon State (assuming @OSU was a fluke)
13 USC

No way! Lose these two and it's curtains! Curtains, I tell you!

Machina wrote:Got to say I disagree with you. The Mountain trip is much bigger.

Remaining games as of this moment in orders of importance.

1 @Utah
2 @Stanford
3 Stanford
4 @Washington
5 @ Colorado
6 UCLA
7 Oregon
8 @ WSU
9 @ Cal
10 @ASU
11 Cal
12 Oregon State (assuming @OSU was a fluke)
13 USC

This is a joke, right? Don't you think losing at home to USC would be far more detrimental to the team and to post-season seeding than losing at Utah?

The most difficult game is always the most important?

Puerco wrote:The most difficult game is always the most important?

Not always but it aligns at times especially when it has to do with the conference race

Unless anyone believes Utah or Stanford are going to win 15+ games in conference play, I think it's pretty obvious that our games AT those 2 teams' home courts are the LEAST 'important' of the season. Those are (arguably) the only 2 games that could be viewed as 'quality' losses since both teams are projected to make the tournament.

What we cannot afford is more losses to non-tourney teams (we already have 2) - especially at home.

Losing at Stanford and Utah might prevent us from getting a #1 seed (then again it may not), but as long as we win the conference we will stay out West. Much rather be a #2 in the West than a #1 in another region.

Harvey Specter wrote:Unless anyone believes Utah or Stanford are going to win 15+ games in conference play, I think it's pretty obvious that our games AT those 2 teams' home courts are the LEAST 'important' of the season. Those are (arguably) the only 2 games that could be viewed as 'quality' losses since both teams are projected to make the tournament.

What we cannot afford is more losses to non-tourney teams (we already have 2) - especially at home.

Losing at Stanford and Utah might prevent us from getting a #1 seed (then again it may not), but as long as we win the conference we will stay out West. Much rather be a #2 in the West than a #1 in another region.

I cannot disagree with you any more.

What do they (ESPN, CBB Experts, Bracketology etc.) always say that is important? Quality Wins. Cats have 3 right now (Utah, Gonzaga, SDSU). At Stanford would be a big one as would at Utah. Also I can see Stanford and Utah getting a good number of wins and those are the only two other teams I see as being able to compete with UA for the conference title and making the NCAAs

Does anyone listen to Machina's rants any more?

Losing to crap teams hurts a high seed, which Arizona is currently based on everything out there. Essentially Arizona is expected to win everything, and is favored in every game going forward--with maybe the game in SLC being the exception. Losing to a team with a crap RPI/Kenpom hurts far more than winning a game against the "next best" in conference helps.

Machina wrote:

Harvey Specter wrote:Unless anyone believes Utah or Stanford are going to win 15+ games in conference play, I think it's pretty obvious that our games AT those 2 teams' home courts are the LEAST 'important' of the season. Those are (arguably) the only 2 games that could be viewed as 'quality' losses since both teams are projected to make the tournament.

What we cannot afford is more losses to non-tourney teams (we already have 2) - especially at home.

Losing at Stanford and Utah might prevent us from getting a #1 seed (then again it may not), but as long as we win the conference we will stay out West. Much rather be a #2 in the West than a #1 in another region.

I cannot disagree with you any more.

What do they (ESPN, CBB Experts, Bracketology etc.) always say that is important? Quality Wins. Cats have 3 right now (Utah, Gonzaga, SDSU). At Stanford would be a big one as would at Utah. Also I can see Stanford and Utah getting a good number of wins and those are the only two other teams I see as being able to compete with UA for the conference title and making the NCAAs

Your logic is hilarious. The only true must-wins on our schedule are the games against non-tournament teams as those would most definitely be "bad losses" which absolutely negatively affects our prospects for a top seed.

Is Machina for real?

Machina wrote:

Harvey Specter wrote:Unless anyone believes Utah or Stanford are going to win 15+ games in conference play, I think it's pretty obvious that our games AT those 2 teams' home courts are the LEAST 'important' of the season. Those are (arguably) the only 2 games that could be viewed as 'quality' losses since both teams are projected to make the tournament.

What we cannot afford is more losses to non-tourney teams (we already have 2) - especially at home.

Losing at Stanford and Utah might prevent us from getting a #1 seed (then again it may not), but as long as we win the conference we will stay out West. Much rather be a #2 in the West than a #1 in another region.

I cannot disagree with you any more.

What do they (ESPN, CBB Experts, Bracketology etc.) always say that is important? Quality Wins. Cats have 3 right now (Utah, Gonzaga, SDSU). At Stanford would be a big one as would at Utah. Also I can see Stanford and Utah getting a good number of wins and those are the only two other teams I see as being able to compete with UA for the conference title and making the NCAAs

Do you try to be a contrarian indicator or does it come naturally?

This is a must sweep weekend if UA wants to have a realistic shot at a 1-2 seed because these are the toss-up games. Drop one and you now have 3 losses with 5 remaining regular season toss-up games that look very tough, barring injury etc:

-@UW
-@Wazzu
-UCLA
-@Utah
-Stan
-Also the annual loss in the P12 tourney which we can't ever seem to win - too much M2M defense for 3 days straight?.....yeah you be tired

With inconsistent shooting and trouble with zone Ds, the baffling lineups at critical times, and the inability/unwillingness to give opponents a look at a zone D full of long 5* recruits like Bash Rondae and Stan, losing 3 of the above is likely. Anything's possible I guess but this team has got to figure out the solution to these weaknesses