Bear Down Wildcats

Those in the know, please tell me he is not seriously considering going to the NBA?

It'll cost you.

Hit his most difficult shot. Missed easier ones.

For those of you who say he can't rebound, watch this awesome way to secure the rock:

https://vine.co/v/OIIA7TZ1QXq

Longhorned wrote:For those of you who say he can't rebound, watch this awesome way to secure the rock:

https://vine.co/v/OIIA7TZ1QXq

I would put that Vine on the Chasson Randle appreciation thread. Stanford was doing everything right in coming back the last 1:47 when down by 12. Foul the inbounds guy, he makes only half his FTs, then score every possession yourself. Why Randle had to chuck up a shot 3 seconds into the shot clock I have no idea. Score, and it's only a 4 or 5 point game with time on the clock to do more of the same.

But being the tallest guy on the floor, with the lowest body fat of anyone out there, why are these Zeus' rebounding numbers the last 4 games?

Stanford: 3, PF: 4
Utah: 5, PF: 5
Colorado: 2, PF: 4
Oregon State: 0, PF: 2

More fouls than boards?

I understand he has no plays called for him on offense, but still no excuse for not getting rebounds.

TJ's rebounds last 4 games: 0, 3, 7, 6.

Merkin wrote:

Longhorned wrote:For those of you who say he can't rebound, watch this awesome way to secure the rock:

https://vine.co/v/OIIA7TZ1QXq

I would put that Vine on the Chasson Randle appreciation thread. Stanford was doing everything right in coming back the last 1:47 when down by 12. Foul the inbounds guy, he makes only half his FTs, then score every possession yourself. Why Randle had to chuck up a shot 3 seconds into the shot clock I have no idea. Score, and it's only a 4 or 5 point game with time on the clock to do more of the same.

But being the tallest guy on the floor, with the lowest body fat of anyone out there, why are these Zeus' rebounding numbers the last 4 games?

Stanford: 3, PF: 4
Utah: 5, PF: 5
Colorado: 2, PF: 4
Oregon State: 0, PF: 2

More fouls than boards?

I understand he has no plays called for him on offense, but still no excuse for not getting rebounds.

TJ's rebounds last 4 games: 0, 3, 7, 6.

He often times opens lanes for other Cats to get rebounds. The difference he makes cannot always be proven with stats.

Very frustrating on the offensive end in the first half.

Newportcat wrote:Those in the know, please tell me he is not seriously considering going to the NBA?

He's a legit 7 footer playing on a top-10 college basketball team. Of course he's considering going to the NBA.

The question is "when"...

Chicat wrote:

Newportcat wrote:Those in the know, please tell me he is not seriously considering going to the NBA?

He's a legit 7 footer playing on a top-10 college basketball team. Of course he's considering going to the NBA.

The question is "when"...

Chicat wrote:

Newportcat wrote:Those in the know, please tell me he is not seriously considering going to the NBA?

He's a legit 7 footer playing on a top-10 college basketball team. Of course he's considering going to the NBA.

The question is "when"...

Miller probably expected Johnson, BAsh, and Zeus to all leave after this year. Not sure what the exact scholarship count is but 4 coming in for 2015, and only Korcheck and McConnell losing eligibility. Simple math says 2 more have to go, so if BAsh and SJ go, that leaves one for Zeus.

Machina wrote:
He often times opens lanes for other Cats to get rebounds. The difference he makes cannot always be proven with stats.

No stat for balls bouncing off your hands, or bringing the ball down time and time again to get it stripped too.

Merkin wrote:Miller probably expected Johnson, BAsh, and Zeus to all leave after this year. Not sure what the exact scholarship count is but 4 coming in for 2015, and only Korcheck and McConnell losing eligibility. Simple math says 2 more have to go, so if BAsh and SJ go, that leaves one for Zeus.

Craig Victor is gone as well.

Merkin wrote:No stat for balls bouncing off your hands, or bringing the ball down time and time again to get it stripped too.

I don't know if someone can find/post a gif or vine, but there was one in the second half (perhaps about 5 min left or so?) where they dumped the ball in to Zeus, he shanks the dump in pass and jumps over to grab the ball and as he grabs the ball, it squirts through his hands and shoots like four or six feet up into the air. At this point the Furd D seems so mesmerized by the ball squirting around that, by the time the ball does come down and Zeus secures it (on attempt number 3 mind you), he's basically right under the hoop. He goes up for a layup that is way too strong on the delivery and the ball goes shooting off away from him.

That play really had me chuckling. Sometimes you just have a tough day at the office and this really seemed like one of those for Zeus.

I like Zeus and usually defend Zeus because a guy that big and athletic is a huuuge commodity on defense and he makes the team better no doubt. But I agree this motherfucker should be grabbing more rebounds regardless. I guess he just doesn't have that rebounding sense that some people have (or even a smidgen of it). Guys like Rodman and Barkley could grab everything in sight because they had the instinct. There are countless guys who have perfect basketball bodies but not the basketball smarts, instinct, anticipation...whatever you want to call it.

How awesome was Korcheck, who came in, rebounded, defended and CAUGHT THE FUCKING BALL.

Bill Walton's three keys for effective rebounding:

1. assume that every shot is going to be missed
2. keep your hands higher than your elbows at all times
3. go get the dang thing

Worked for him.

4.. Shrooms.

+1 gumby


as much as i'd like to have zeus return for another season and hopefully show some senior leadership (just think, york, pitts, and anderson are gonna be our "seasoned leaders" on the floor next year), it's hard to imagine him rationalizing it. would he show enough improvement over a fourth season to bolster his draft stock, or would it be more of a liability? i really don't know, but even if the nba looks unlikely it seems that giving euroball or d-league a go might be a more attractive option. i think kaleb's also getting his degree this semester or summer, and who knows if he wants to do the grad school thing next year anyway.

dirtbags wrote:i think kaleb's also getting his degree this semester or summer, and who knows if he wants to do the grad school thing next year anyway.

Maybe Zeus can transfer to Kansas then, where they actually do develop big men.

Or so they say.

Channing Frye came back for his senior year and really moved up the draft boards when he lost the Shannon/Charmin/Ham Sandwhich label.

I must admit he drives me a little crazy, O.K. maybe more than a little, when he misses those chippies so close to the basket.

Merkin wrote:

dirtbags wrote:i think kaleb's also getting his degree this semester or summer, and who knows if he wants to do the grad school thing next year anyway.

Maybe Zeus can transfer to Kansas then, where they actually do develop big men.

Or so they say.

Channing Frye came back for his senior year and really moved up the draft boards when he lost the Shannon/Charmin/Ham Sandwhich label.

Channing was a MUCH better basketball player than Zeus. His freshman year numbers were better than Zeus' as a junior.

His senior year numbers were no better than his junior year numbers by the way.

legallykenny wrote: His senior year numbers were no better than his junior year numbers by the way.

They weren't, but doesn't mean he wasn't the same player.

Zeus, Bash, Stanman, RhJ, TJ, Korcheck. All gone...and buh bye Victor (dumb)

Mark It.

CBCat wrote:Zeus, Bash, Stanman, RhJ, TJ, Korcheck. All gone...and buh bye Victor (dumb)

Mark It.

Yeah, agree with this as well.....Next year's team is going to look so much different.

CBCat wrote:Zeus, Bash, Stanman, RhJ, TJ, Korcheck. All gone...and buh bye Victor (dumb)

Mark It.

I have a feeling at least one of Zeus, Bash, or RHJ ends up coming back. Don't know which one or why.
Kind of like the year all 5 starters declared initially but Gardner ended up coming back (and Wright should have).

SJ is gone and of course T.J., Korcheck and that other guy.

UAEebs86 wrote:

CBCat wrote:Zeus, Bash, Stanman, RhJ, TJ, Korcheck. All gone...and buh bye Victor (dumb)

Mark It.

I have a feeling at least one of Zeus, Bash, or RHJ ends up coming back. Don't know which one or why.
Kind of like the year all 5 starters declared initially but Gardner ended up coming back (and Wright should have).

SJ is gone and of course T.J., Korcheck and that other guy.

Why would RHJ come back? For the love of U of A and college basketball?

Longhorned wrote:
Why would RHJ come back? For the love of U of A and college basketball?

Well his draft grade is dropping. What if he looks like a late first/early second?

He's definitely the least likely of the three to return. We also know unfortunately from last year that injuries can play a part in these decisions.

I could see what UAeebs said being true (at least one of the three mentioned comes back). In fact, I could see more than one coming back.

Longhorned wrote:Why would RHJ come back? For the love of U of A and college basketball?

Well, all the 3s in the league are 6'8"ish 210 lbsish and just as quick as RHJ; his physical abilities won't give him an edge against NBA players. If you're looking at their game, RHJ's offensive game needs more development in many ways. Guys say they'll develop it later, but there isn't a lot of practice time in the league and the league seems littered with guys who said they'd develop once they got there, never did and those guys second contract looks like 2 years $3M a year instead of the 5 years, $10M a year they thought they'd develop into.

Now my personal bias is seeping into this, but I've thought for a while that many of these guys reach for the money too soon and shortchange themselves over the course of their career for it. To me there seems like very little downside to staying another year and continuing to develop if you aren't 100% sure you're ready, as opposed to going to early and not in fact being ready which of course has massive, massive downside risk.

There is zero chance of RHJ coming back. He already did that.

Sorry for my self-contradictions, but agree with those of you who think RHJ would benefit as a human being from another year of college and the chance to develop his game outside an 82-game grind, and I think he's going to be a solid first-round draft pick who will be successful in the NBA even without additional development. The fact that he certainly will improve his handles and perimeter shooting in the NBA has a lot to do with why he won't return for another year of Arizona Basketball, unfortunately. He's ready to be a top defender against NBA wings this very afternoon.

I imagine RHJ will spend a season in the D league so he can spend some time working on his shot and handles.

Always see people saying things like "they don't have time for practice in the league and thus they wont be able to improve their games as much as they can in college."

But I think the opposite is true, in college practice is very limited and there is barley enough time for film sessions and game prep each week and the players have very little free time because of school obligations. Whereas in the pros all they do is spend all day working with professional coaches one on one, while the teams may not practice a lot in the way we think of practice, the players have lots of free time to do nothing but work on their game/shooting/dribbling etc. This is why a guy like Channing suddenly became a league leading 3 point shooter once he left college. While a player can develop in college I think the real development comes after they leave college and have the time money and leisure to do nothing but work on their shot and develop their games.

Merkin wrote:I imagine RHJ will spend a season in the D league so he can spend some time working on his shot and handles.

I don't have an opinion that, but on the defensive side of things he's ready for big show right now. In college, one reason why Arizona would beat Kentucky is the combination of having the best player on the court in Stanley Johnson (the Charles Barkley rule) and having a defender who will take the best offensive player on the court for Kentucky (alternating Booker, Harrison2, Towns) out of the game for 35 minutes.

Longhorned wrote:

Merkin wrote:I imagine RHJ will spend a season in the D league so he can spend some time working on his shot and handles.

I don't have an opinion that, but on the defensive side of things he's ready for big show right now. In college, one reason why Arizona would beat Kentucky is the combination of having the best player on the court in Stanley Johnson (the Charles Barkley rule) and having a defender who will take the best offensive player on the court for Kentucky (alternating Booker, Harrison2, Towns) out of the game for 35 minutes.

I like this post. The value of RHJ and Tarc on defense is tremendous. On offense, neither should be featured. Points should come from working the glass and being available for passes down low.
And in transition, for Rondae.

Hope Tarc returns. Know RHJ won't. We better excel on offense next year, because losing TJ and those two is going to make it difficult to defend as well.

"The Drive", Pac-12 Network show, will feature Kaleb on Wednesday, 6 pst. Scenes from practice.

Olsondogg wrote:There is zero chance of RHJ coming back. He already did that.

Olsondogg wrote:There is zero chance of RHJ coming back. He already did that.

And you know this how??? Are you his agent?

A quick look at the draft boards shows that the only UA player projected to go in the 1st round on all of them is Stanley. RHJ is on about 1/3rd of the draft boards as a 1st rounder. Tarc and Bash are not projected to go in the 1st round on any of the boards I have seen. There is plenty of reason for all 3 to return depending on their draft status come early April.

We are well into the 3rd season of Zeus. At this point he:

- Has difficulty catching the ball
- Has difficulty hanging onto the ball when he does catch it
- Has difficulty finishing bunnies, especially when someone of similar size is anywhere near him
- Goes up for dunks and loses the ball. I refer to it as the Empty Handed Dunk or EHD for short
- Gets called for fouls away from the action, repeatedly, and just throws up his hands like he's being picked on
- Brings the ball down low unnecessarily. Dribbles unnecessarily. Loses the ball.
- Picks up cheap fouls outside of the arc.

All this is supposedly offset by his defensive presence yet he really isn't much of a shot blocker and I've seen plenty of opponents drive right down the lane for layups with him standing in the key. He is not an enforcer. He is not a deterrent.

I am told by CSM and the media that he is the GOAT practice player and makes our defense so much better when he is in there. I don't buy it anymore. It may be better than it would be with Ristic, but does that offset the offensive woes and the turnovers and the general everybody is picking on me attitude?

I'm amazed that Miller keeps riding that horse. Maybe some time coming off the bench would do him some good. I want him to develop. I want him to become an NBA player. To me, when he does go, he is looking at the D league or Europe. I thought I saw progress last year and attributed it to Joe Blair's presence. I was so glad to hear Blair was returning. This year it seems as if Zeus has regressed.

There is still time but I'd like to see Ristic get some starts and see how that goes for both parties.

I imagine Ristic will get more minutes as his defense improves, which it is, but I don't think he will ever be as strong as Zeus is.

Good For You wrote: - Brings the ball down low unnecessarily.

Outside of the missed bunnies, this probably irks me the most. He does not seem to have any spring, so he needs to bring the ball down to get momentum to dunk it. Bring it down, with his weak hands it gets stripped.

Dude is 6'11.75" with shoes on and has a 6'11" wingspan. He really doesn't need to jump all that much to dunk it.

Good For You wrote:We are well into the 3rd season of Zeus. At this point he:

- Has difficulty catching the ball
- Has difficulty hanging onto the ball when he does catch it
- Has difficulty finishing bunnies, especially when someone of similar size is anywhere near him
- Goes up for dunks and loses the ball. I refer to it as the Empty Handed Dunk or EHD for short
- Gets called for fouls away from the action, repeatedly, and just throws up his hands like he's being picked on
- Brings the ball down low unnecessarily. Dribbles unnecessarily. Loses the ball.
- Picks up cheap fouls outside of the arc.

All this is supposedly offset by his defensive presence yet he really isn't much of a shot blocker and I've seen plenty of opponents drive right down the lane for layups with him standing in the key. He is not an enforcer. He is not a deterrent.

I am told by CSM and the media that he is the GOAT practice player and makes our defense so much better when he is in there. I don't buy it anymore. It may be better than it would be with Ristic, but does that offset the offensive woes and the turnovers and the general everybody is picking on me attitude?

I'm amazed that Miller keeps riding that horse. Maybe some time coming off the bench would do him some good. I want him to develop. I want him to become an NBA player. To me, when he does go, he is looking at the D league or Europe. I thought I saw progress last year and attributed it to Joe Blair's presence. I was so glad to hear Blair was returning. This year it seems as if Zeus has regressed.

There is still time but I'd like to see Ristic get some starts and see how that goes for both parties.

I just want to thank Arizona/Miller for winning this recruiting battle.

A half a year of Embiid is better than three or four years of Zeus.

#enfuegologic

dmjcat wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:There is zero chance of RHJ coming back. He already did that.

And you know this how??? Are you his agent?

A quick look at the draft boards shows that the only UA player projected to go in the 1st round on all of them is Stanley. RHJ is on about 1/3rd of the draft boards as a 1st rounder. Tarc and Bash are not projected to go in the 1st round on any of the boards I have seen. There is plenty of reason for all 3 to return depending on their draft status come early April.

Reason is one thing, likelihood is another.

I believe OD is correct, and doesn't have to be his agent to be correct. In all likelihood, RHJ does not come back. He's a late-1st round player, projected between picks 20-30 on the mocks I've seen this weekend.

Good For You wrote:We are well into the 3rd season of Zeus. At this point he:

- Has difficulty catching the ball
- Has difficulty hanging onto the ball when he does catch it
- Has difficulty finishing bunnies, especially when someone of similar size is anywhere near him
- Goes up for dunks and loses the ball. I refer to it as the Empty Handed Dunk or EHD for short
- Gets called for fouls away from the action, repeatedly, and just throws up his hands like he's being picked on
- Brings the ball down low unnecessarily. Dribbles unnecessarily. Loses the ball.
- Picks up cheap fouls outside of the arc.

All this is supposedly offset by his defensive presence yet he really isn't much of a shot blocker and I've seen plenty of opponents drive right down the lane for layups with him standing in the key. He is not an enforcer. He is not a deterrent.

I am told by CSM and the media that he is the GOAT practice player and makes our defense so much better when he is in there. I don't buy it anymore. It may be better than it would be with Ristic, but does that offset the offensive woes and the turnovers and the general everybody is picking on me attitude?

I'm amazed that Miller keeps riding that horse. Maybe some time coming off the bench would do him some good. I want him to develop. I want him to become an NBA player. To me, when he does go, he is looking at the D league or Europe. I thought I saw progress last year and attributed it to Joe Blair's presence. I was so glad to hear Blair was returning. This year it seems as if Zeus has regressed.

There is still time but I'd like to see Ristic get some starts and see how that goes for both parties.

Most of what you say relate to his hands and his hands only. Which are undersized and relatively weak, and have been so since before he came to UA. As such, he will never become what you want him to be, the prototypical dominant center that many basketball fans seem to project out of every 7'-tall guy who plays basketball.

For the 1,000,000th time, Miller doesn't want his centers blocking shots, he wants them to anchor the packline and play fundamentally sound post defense. Both of which Zeus does. He is a deterrent, every game I see wings cut short their drives when Zeus is patrolling the lane. From a team perspective, Zeus makes the team defense work as well as it does, and since defense is 50% of the game, that matters as much as his inconsistencies on offense.

enfuego wrote:I just want to thank Arizona/Miller for winning this recruiting battle.

No, you don't get to have this both ways troll. You don't get to whine and cry and moan about Kansas losing out on Zeus when he chose UA, and then try to gloat when he doesn't turn out to be the player you expected him to be.

Cliff Alexander, top power forward recruit: 8.7 ppg. Recently benched. Way to hold him down, Coach Self.

Reydituto wrote:For the 1,000,000th time, Miller doesn't want his centers blocking shots, he wants them to anchor the packline and play fundamentally sound post defense. Both of which Zeus does. He is a deterrent, every game I see wings cut short their drives when Zeus is patrolling the lane. From a team perspective, Zeus makes the team defense work as well as it does, and since defense is 50% of the game, that matters as much as his inconsistencies on offense.

I think this is the key and is correct. My feeling is that the same is true on NBA teams which has gone away from the dominant centers and is more a guard/forward centric league. Zeus may have some value in the NBA as a defensive presence. When I watch defensive sets from Arizona, Zeus is typically doing the correct things and is playing good team defense and cutting off drivers and hedging hard.

RHJ is gone. His offensive struggles and shot will be worked on in the D-League. Teams are going to jump at a guy who will be an elite wing defender in the league, especially with that wingspan and athleticism. He won't be a lottery pick but if the right teams are in that 15-20 range he will go there.

I'd be shocked if Bash came back. He should, but all signs point to him leaving and going in the 2nd round. I don't think he has the motor or skill to be solid at the 3 in the NBA. I don't think he can guard an NBA 3. If he were taller I think he would be a solid guy for a stretch 4, but as is he will get killed at the 4 too. I think the league is too big and fast for him and he will struggle in the D-league and eventually have a great career overseas. I look at him and I look at D-Will and they are night and day different at the college level, and Bash will have the same tweener struggles once he is out of college and not nearly the game to compensate.

I'm in the minority here but I think Zeus comes back for his senior year. The mocks don't look promising for him. Someone is going to jump in the 2nd round for obvious reasons, but I think he has a lot more to gain (first round) and not much to lose coming back. Next year the talent pool here won't be as full as the last two seasons.

enfuego wrote: I just want to thank Arizona/Miller for winning every recruiting battle.

Fixed it for you.

dmjcat wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:There is zero chance of RHJ coming back. He already did that.

And you know this how??? Are you his agent?

A quick look at the draft boards shows that the only UA player projected to go in the 1st round on all of them is Stanley. RHJ is on about 1/3rd of the draft boards as a 1st rounder. Tarc and Bash are not projected to go in the 1st round on any of the boards I have seen. There is plenty of reason for all 3 to return depending on their draft status come early April.

Not his agent. I just use logic.

Where did your draft boards have Solo a couple years back? Where did they have Grant Jerrett? Or Nick last year?

Just because some website tells you what you hope to/hope not to see, doesn't mean that matters to the kid playing basketball (or the family/friends around him). I have lost count on the number of players that "should" come back, only to see them go...despite what I read on the boards.

Who would still want Zeus here next year who wants Rabb to be a Wildcat just as much?

Can't have both.

I'll take senior Zeus over any one and done in the class of 2015.

To the doubters, particularly 'Good for You': I just re-watched the CU game, and Bilas specifically commented about how phenomenal a position defender Zeus was. So if ya don't mind, I'll take his advice, and Miller's, over anonymous internet guy.

Puerco wrote:I'll take senior Zeus over any one and done in the class of 2015.

To the doubters, particularly 'Good for You': I just re-watched the CU game, and Bilas specifically commented about how phenomenal a position defender Zeus was. So if ya don't mind, I'll take his advice, and Miller's, over anonymous internet guy.

The kids don't care about defense. No stat for what Kaleb does, so it doesn't count. If Dusan can learn from Tarc, great. If not, the defense will suffer. Tarc is like Rob Waldrop. Clogs and occupies the middle, while other players collect the tackles.

Puerco wrote:I'll take senior Zeus over any one and done in the class of 2015.

To the doubters, particularly 'Good for You': I just re-watched the CU game, and Bilas specifically commented about how phenomenal a position defender Zeus was. So if ya don't mind, I'll take his advice, and Miller's, over anonymous internet guy.

I agree with Puerco. Let hell begin the ice age.

Have a great idea...although maybe not ethical, lol. Place a 'Shock Collar' on Zeus and zap him everytime he's fed down low and brings the ball below his waist! Seriously, catch and then throw it down immediately my Man! BTFD.

Olsondogg wrote:

Puerco wrote:I'll take senior Zeus over any one and done in the class of 2015.

To the doubters, particularly 'Good for You': I just re-watched the CU game, and Bilas specifically commented about how phenomenal a position defender Zeus was. So if ya don't mind, I'll take his advice, and Miller's, over anonymous internet guy.

I agree with Puerco. Let hell begin the ice age.

Jesus. I need a drink.