Bear Down Wildcats

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketb ... cal-oregon


Observations: Arizona will have added competition from Cal, Oregon

The outlook for the Pac-12 has changed in the last week.

People in Tucson may not want to hear this, but the Pac-12 is no longer just Arizona and everyone else. With California adding Ivan Rabb and Jaylen Brown, and Oregon bringing in Villanova transfer Dylan Ennis on Thursday, the Pac-12 has two more teams that could be ranked in the Top 25 at the start of the season along with Arizona. Rabb and Brown head to Berkeley to join a complete perimeter anchored by three veterans in Tyrone Wallace, Jordan Mathews and Jabari Bird. Ennis gives coach Dana Altman the type of veteran guard he craved to pair with high-scoring freshman Tyler Dorsey. Both teams have what it takes to compete with Arizona for the conference title. UCLA and Utah are on the periphery as potential contenders as well. These five teams and Oregon State all figure to enter next season with a legitimate chance of earning an NCAA Tournament bid.

Oh, but i believe it is Arizona and everybody else. Untill these teams can show they can compete at a high level like Arizona they don't deserve high praise like Arizona. You have to put in the work first like the Wildcats did. Maybe they do match up talent with talent, but the coaching edge is one thing they can't deny.

Why would Tucson not want to hear this? It's refreshing to have a more competitive league. I'm actually happy that the Pac-12 is becoming better.

And this is Arizona! We crave competition.

Catintheheat wrote:Why would Tucson not want to hear this? It's refreshing to have a more competitive league. I'm actually happy that the Pac-12 is becoming better.

This.

KillerKlown wrote:Oh, but i believe it is Arizona and everybody else. Untill these teams can show they can compete at a high level like Arizona they don't deserve high praise like Arizona. You have to put in the work first like the Wildcats did. Maybe they do match up talent with talent, but the coaching edge is one thing they can't deny.

I think it is very foolish to not respect the job Cal is doing. They will be a competitive team that shouldn't be overlooked.

League should be vastly improved. Looking forward to some teams stepping up to challenge us. Bout time

Hobbes wrote:

KillerKlown wrote:Oh, but i believe it is Arizona and everybody else. Untill these teams can show they can compete at a high level like Arizona they don't deserve high praise like Arizona. You have to put in the work first like the Wildcats did. Maybe they do match up talent with talent, but the coaching edge is one thing they can't deny.

I think it is very foolish to not respect the job Cal is doing. They will be a competitive team that shouldn't be overlooked.

What job is Cal doing exactly? You don't get to hang banners for limited recruiting success.

Chicat wrote:

Hobbes wrote:

KillerKlown wrote:Oh, but i believe it is Arizona and everybody else. Untill these teams can show they can compete at a high level like Arizona they don't deserve high praise like Arizona. You have to put in the work first like the Wildcats did. Maybe they do match up talent with talent, but the coaching edge is one thing they can't deny.

I think it is very foolish to not respect the job Cal is doing. They will be a competitive team that shouldn't be overlooked.

What job is Cal doing exactly? You don't get to hang banners for limited recruiting success.

Have you not been paying attention? Rabb, Jaylen Brown, returning several key players from last year, albeit they are not as talented as the incoming recruits. I am not hanging banners. I am merely saying that we should respect the job Cal is doing via recruiting, and prepare for them accordingly.

"WE should prepare for them accordingly"? Ok, let me break out the old dry erase board and get the team ready for the genius that is Cuonzo Martin.

Cal will be good. Just not sure how good. They've got at least three future NBA players.

Oregon is phasing in new players, so there'll be an adjustment period.

Utah probably has the league's best big man.

As has been said elsewhere, AZ is the Pac favorite, but there are certainly a few other teams that could compete for the title.

Chicat wrote:

Hobbes wrote:

KillerKlown wrote:Oh, but i believe it is Arizona and everybody else. Untill these teams can show they can compete at a high level like Arizona they don't deserve high praise like Arizona. You have to put in the work first like the Wildcats did. Maybe they do match up talent with talent, but the coaching edge is one thing they can't deny.

I think it is very foolish to not respect the job Cal is doing. They will be a competitive team that shouldn't be overlooked.

What job is Cal doing exactly? You don't get to hang banners for limited recruiting success.

And you won't know what it's like to be a golden bear until you've grown a golden beard on your scrotum.

Hobbes wrote:

KillerKlown wrote:Oh, but i believe it is Arizona and everybody else. Untill these teams can show they can compete at a high level like Arizona they don't deserve high praise like Arizona. You have to put in the work first like the Wildcats did. Maybe they do match up talent with talent, but the coaching edge is one thing they can't deny.

I think it is very foolish to not respect the job Cal is doing. They will be a competitive team that shouldn't be overlooked.

I absolutely respect the recruiting job being done there. They will win more games naturally due to talent, but I've seen other coaches with vast amounts of talent (Josh Pastner, Rick Barnes, Dave Rice) do absolutely nothing or grossly underachieve with said talent. I need to see Cuonzo can coach them up before I respect them honestly.

Hobbes wrote:

KillerKlown wrote:Oh, but i believe it is Arizona and everybody else. Untill these teams can show they can compete at a high level like Arizona they don't deserve high praise like Arizona. You have to put in the work first like the Wildcats did. Maybe they do match up talent with talent, but the coaching edge is one thing they can't deny.

I think it is very foolish to not respect the job Cal is doing. They will be a competitive team that shouldn't be overlooked.

Who said I wasn't giving them respect? Like I said, untill teams like Cal have shown they can compete at a high level, don't expect high praise. Sure I respect the job they are doing at this time, but I'm not going to be naive and lable them a title contender without them having yet to play a single game.

Hobbes wrote:

KillerKlown wrote:Oh, but i believe it is Arizona and everybody else. Untill these teams can show they can compete at a high level like Arizona they don't deserve high praise like Arizona. You have to put in the work first like the Wildcats did. Maybe they do match up talent with talent, but the coaching edge is one thing they can't deny.

I think it is very foolish to not respect the job Cal is doing. They will be a competitive team that shouldn't be overlooked.

They brought in a talented recruiting class that was added to talent.....that the coach did absolutely nothing with. In fact he did such a lousy job with Cal last season, one wonders HOW and WHY he was able to pull in so much talent this recruiting class.

'bout time.

KillerKlown wrote:

Hobbes wrote:

KillerKlown wrote:Oh, but i believe it is Arizona and everybody else. Untill these teams can show they can compete at a high level like Arizona they don't deserve high praise like Arizona. You have to put in the work first like the Wildcats did. Maybe they do match up talent with talent, but the coaching edge is one thing they can't deny.

I think it is very foolish to not respect the job Cal is doing. They will be a competitive team that shouldn't be overlooked.

Who said I wasn't giving them respect? Like I said, untill teams like Cal have shown they can compete at a high level, don't expect high praise. Sure I respect the job they are doing at this time, but I'm not going to be naive and lable them a title contender without them having yet to play a single game.

Totally agree.

All I said is that the Arizona Wildcats should respect this Bears team and be prepared for a tough machup of talent vs talent/depth. That's all.

Beachcat97 wrote:Cal will be good. Just not sure how good. They've got at least three future NBA players.

Oregon is phasing in new players, so there'll be an adjustment period.

Utah probably has the league's best big man.

As has been said elsewhere, AZ is the Pac favorite, but there are certainly a few other teams that could compete for the title.

Your logic is impeccable. Arizona is not "phasing in new players" so they, obviously, should be rated higher.

Well CSM says that Cal will challenge for the Nat'l championship so I think they have his respect. I am interested to see if Martin has the ability to coach these guys to elite level. BTFD!

Hobbes wrote:All I said is that the Arizona Wildcats should respect this Bears team and be prepared for a tough machup of talent vs talent/depth. That's all.

Most definetley. Respect your enemy(sports wise).

enfuego wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:Cal will be good. Just not sure how good. They've got at least three future NBA players.

Oregon is phasing in new players, so there'll be an adjustment period.

Utah probably has the league's best big man.

As has been said elsewhere, AZ is the Pac favorite, but there are certainly a few other teams that could compete for the title.

Your logic is impeccable. Arizona is not "phasing in new players" so they, obviously, should be rated higher.

We're phasing in some new guys, too. But we return several guys from a Pac championship team, and we have Sean Miller. I like our chances to win another Pac title next season.

84Cat wrote:Well CSM says that Cal will challenge for the Nat'l championship so I think they have his respect. I am interested to see if Martin has the ability to coach these guys to elite level. BTFD!

He also said that the Pac-12 championship was Utah's to lose at one point last year or something similar to that notion at least. Miller says a lot of things. I don't think he means every thing he says personally. If anything he's proven to be as much of a fibber publicly as he is forthcoming.

Beachcat97 wrote:

enfuego wrote:
Your logic is impeccable. Arizona is not "phasing in new players" so they, obviously, should be rated higher.

We're phasing in some new guys, too. But we return several guys from a Pac championship team, and we have Sean Miller. I like our chances to win another Pac title next season.

AZ is returning scrubs. Cal is returning starters. Again, your homerism is showing.

enfuego wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:

enfuego wrote:
Your logic is impeccable. Arizona is not "phasing in new players" so they, obviously, should be rated higher.

We're phasing in some new guys, too. But we return several guys from a Pac championship team, and we have Sean Miller. I like our chances to win another Pac title next season.

AZ is returning scrubs. Cal is returning starters. Again, your homerism is showing.

AZ is not returning scrubs. Sorry.

enflamo calling someone a homer.

Hobbes wrote:

enfuego wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:

enfuego wrote:
Your logic is impeccable. Arizona is not "phasing in new players" so they, obviously, should be rated higher.

We're phasing in some new guys, too. But we return several guys from a Pac championship team, and we have Sean Miller. I like our chances to win another Pac title next season.

AZ is returning scrubs. Cal is returning starters. Again, your homerism is showing.

AZ is not returning scrubs. Sorry.

How about this...

Cal is returning proven starters. AZ is returning bench players, Kaleb "I Chose Poorly" Tarczewski, and Gabe York.

enfuego wrote:

Hobbes wrote:

enfuego wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:

enfuego wrote:
Your logic is impeccable. Arizona is not "phasing in new players" so they, obviously, should be rated higher.

We're phasing in some new guys, too. But we return several guys from a Pac championship team, and we have Sean Miller. I like our chances to win another Pac title next season.

AZ is returning scrubs. Cal is returning starters. Again, your homerism is showing.

AZ is not returning scrubs. Sorry.

How about this...

Cal is returning proven starters. AZ is returning bench players, Kaleb "I Chose Poorly" Tarczewski, and Gabe York.

And what exactly did Cal's starters prove?

CatMG wrote:

enfuego wrote: How about this...

Cal is returning proven starters. AZ is returning bench players, Kaleb "I Chose Poorly" Tarczewski, and Gabe York.

And what exactly to Cal's starters prove?

By definition, as "starters", they have proven more than players who rarely saw the court and Hands of Stone. York has proven he has a solid stroke.

You continue to show time and time again that you know nothing about the Pac12. Yet you continue to make yourself look like a fucking idiot. It's the definition of insanity.

enfuego wrote:

Hobbes wrote:

enfuego wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:

enfuego wrote:
Your logic is impeccable. Arizona is not "phasing in new players" so they, obviously, should be rated higher.

We're phasing in some new guys, too. But we return several guys from a Pac championship team, and we have Sean Miller. I like our chances to win another Pac title next season.

AZ is returning scrubs. Cal is returning starters. Again, your homerism is showing.

AZ is not returning scrubs. Sorry.

How about this...

Cal is returning proven starters. AZ is returning bench players, Kaleb "I Chose Poorly" Tarczewski, and Gabe York.

Cal is returning the same "proven" starters that lost to AZ by 30 points on three separate occasions last year.

FightWildcatsFight wrote:

enfuego wrote: How about this...

Cal is returning proven starters. AZ is returning bench players, Kaleb "I Chose Poorly" Tarczewski, and Gabe York.

Cal is returning the same "proven" starters that lost to AZ by 30 points on three separate occasions last year.

McConnell, Johnson, Ashley, and RHJ aren't walking through that door. Unfortunately, Kaleb "Hands of Stone and Zero Post Moves" Tarczewski, are.

Shouldn't you be more concerned with your returning players who have a penchant for disappearing in big games? I sense another early round flameout in your future....

Whoa! All of a sudden your screenname makes sense. Can't believe it took me this long to figure out. Well played enflameout.

Good thing Kaleb are returning. lol

enfuego wrote:

Hobbes wrote:

enfuego wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:

enfuego wrote:
Your logic is impeccable. Arizona is not "phasing in new players" so they, obviously, should be rated higher.

We're phasing in some new guys, too. But we return several guys from a Pac championship team, and we have Sean Miller. I like our chances to win another Pac title next season.

AZ is returning scrubs. Cal is returning starters. Again, your homerism is showing.

AZ is not returning scrubs. Sorry.

How about this...

Cal is returning proven starters. AZ is returning bench players, Kaleb "I Chose Poorly" Tarczewski, and Gabe York.

Bench players that would start on 90% of the rest of the teams in the NCAA.

This is the most pointless off-season thread I've ever read.

Guess what? Cal could get Kentucky's starting five and it would still have Cuonzo Martin as head coach and Haas Pavilion to practice in. And if the Bears' play is any indication of how they practice, they'll be as good as they are on paper in exactly two games--both against Arizona.

News flash, but that doesn't compete for conference titles. You actually have to play defense, make team decisions on O, and have the kind of chemistry to sustain through an 18-game conference schedule and minimum three-game tournament.

Oregon and UCLA are greater threats using those legit criteria--as they were last year. And Arizona ended up outplaying them head-to-head and outclassing them in the conference.

Why? Because Sean Miller is the best coach in the western United States. He coaches to win better than most collegiate programs anywhere.

We go through this verbal diarrhea seemingly every May, and that CBS Sports article is damn stupid assuming that we don't. Remember Alford "cutting in on Miller's L.A. recruiting," or Altman using grad transfers to get to the top? "Cream of the crop" Colorado? Andy Enfield getting recruits as hot and young as his wife?

Yeah, we're all still left wondering what happened there, aren't we?

Arizona lost two games in-conference this season, so where the hell did that equate to a perception of "Pac-12 basketball is Arizona and everybody else"? The Cats had off nights and haven't been even a threat to Lute's best in-conference marks, much less running the table.

Yet guess what? Arizona still won the conference and tourney title comfortably. Now a few five-star recruits are going to change that?

If so, they'll have to prove it on the court over the course of the first two months of 2016. Unless they can regularly shoot like Wisconsin did in the second half of the Elite EIght win, no Arizona fan's going to be shaking in their boots over a few highlight mixes.

Curious? Yes. Intrigued? Absolutely.

Eventually irked at which of these players have to go thug on the Cats when they realize they can't beat Arizona in an even matchup? Possibly.

But like the economist would say, it's just another revolution. Get the power and wear the mantle comfortably to make any inroads on the confidence of Wildcat basketball fans.

We only lost two conference games

So wait...Cal and Oregon are the latest to challenge Arizona? I remember hearing that about Utah, and before that Rado, and Furd, etc etc etc.

Competition will always be there in some form or another. To do it consistently is the key, and there is no real consistently good program in the PAC aside from Arizona.

Hats off to Cal winning the preseason though.

Cal is going to be good; maybe more on paper than in reality, but they will be good. There is a lot of "flash" about the prospective line-up because of the 2 top 10 recruits coming in. The reality is that AZ will be as good or better; AZ didn't get the 2 top ten recruits (one that had been leaning AZ for quite some time until the last few months), but AZ has a very deep squad with a lot more experience -- plus a top 5 class coming in. AZ may not be the sexy pick, but AZ is going to be really good.

I just get a kick out of the national press:

Cal has the #6 recruiting class and returns the back court that lost to Arizona by 30 ppg last year.
Arizona has the #5 recruiting class and returns 1.5 starters and more depth than Cal.
Therefore, Cal is the favorite to win the conference.

Uh, what?

Puerco wrote:I just get a kick out of the national press:

Cal has the #6 recruiting class and returns the back court that lost to Arizona by 30 ppg last year.
Arizona has the #5 recruiting class and returns 1.5 starters and more depth than Cal.
Therefore, Cal is the favorite to win the conference.

Uh, what?

Not to mention Anderson and Allen coming off their RS's.

Puerco wrote:I just get a kick out of the national press:

Cal has the #6 recruiting class and returns the back court that lost to Arizona by 30 ppg last year.
Arizona has the #5 recruiting class and returns 1.5 starters and more depth than Cal.
Therefore, Cal is the favorite to win the conference.

Uh, what?

I'll tell you exactly what the press is looking at:

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketb ... ne-wallace
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketb ... an-mathews
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketb ... abari-bird

The stats of those 3 returning starters and particularly the points per game put up. Genuinely I bet about 5 guys in the national press watched a single California basketball game last year, so they are solely going off the fact that they return 3 players who averaged double digit points, and the fact that they have 2 top 10 high school recruits coming in. Using the same exact metrics to look at Arizona, we don't return anyone who scored double digits for one, for two I guarantee a lot of the media have no idea that Ryan Anderson is on the team let alone what he's capable of nor do they know what Kadeem Allen is capable of (then again does a single Arizona fan know what he is capable of?), and Arizona doesn't have a top 10 high school recruit inbound. The media sees that there's 3 guaranteed scorers on Cal's team next year and they legitimately have no idea what anybody on Arizona is capable of outside of Tarczewski and York and since our recruits are not top 10 in their class then they won't make as much of an immediate impact as 2 top 10 recruits would at Cal.

That's the logic. It's simple and I understand it. There's no big picture here, it's just black and white and basic stats. The media is truly a simple beast and it's not hard to figure them out and it's not really worth our time to fret over their meaningless opinion.

ChooChooCat wrote:

Puerco wrote:I just get a kick out of the national press:

Cal has the #6 recruiting class and returns the back court that lost to Arizona by 30 ppg last year.
Arizona has the #5 recruiting class and returns 1.5 starters and more depth than Cal.
Therefore, Cal is the favorite to win the conference.

Uh, what?

I'll tell you exactly what the press is looking at:

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketb ... ne-wallace
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketb ... an-mathews
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketb ... abari-bird

The stats of those 3 returning starters and particularly the points per game put up. Genuinely I bet about 5 guys in the national press watched a single California basketball game last year, so they are solely going off the fact that they return 3 players who averaged double digit points, and the fact that they have 2 top 10 high school recruits coming in. Using the same exact metrics to look at Arizona, we don't return anyone who scored double digits for one, for two I guarantee a lot of the media have no idea that Ryan Anderson is on the team let alone what he's capable of nor do they know what Kadeem Allen is capable of (then again does a single Arizona fan know what he is capable of?), and Arizona doesn't have a top 10 high school recruit inbound. The media sees that there's 3 guaranteed scorers on Cal's team next year and they legitimately have no idea what anybody on Arizona is capable of outside of Tarczewski and York and since our recruits are not top 10 in their class then they won't make as much of an immediate impact as 2 top 10 recruits would at Cal.

That's the logic. It's simple and I understand it. There's no big picture here, it's just black and white and basic stats. The media is truly a simple beast and it's not hard to figure them out and it's not really worth our time to fret over their meaningless opinion.

Wouldn't the simple black and white, basic stats lead the media to the conclusion that perhaps Cal has a lousy head coach?

Cal still in the hunt for Swanigan.

Puerco wrote:I just get a kick out of the national press:

Cal has the #6 recruiting class and returns the back court that lost to Arizona by 30 ppg last year.
Arizona has the #5 recruiting class and returns 1.5 starters and more depth than Cal.
Therefore, Cal is the favorite to win the conference.

Uh, what?

What, is your sarcasm meter broken? Hooked it up in-line with your irony meter and been reading too much stuff about Joe Arpaio?