Bear Down Wildcats

And there it is.

(I think the old thread is locked.)

That says a lot about CSM and the athletic department. Arizona has a high ethical standard and won't let things slide when their players misbehave. Bravo! We are not Penn State.

...or Rape-lor.

What does sexual misconduct actually mean?

I guess there was some serious evidence for the U to suspend Pitts.

WTG Miller and AD, much more upstanding than how Duke handled Sulimon.

Wow.

I don't think this is going away any time soon. I'm not saying it'll effect the bball program or even the university, as they handled it exactly as it should've been handled, but the rumored father of the girl has plenty sway. Messy situation all around.

wyo-cat wrote:...or Rape-lor.

Those are pretty strong words for someone who wasn't charged. Sounds like the daddy is driving this train wreck

whatisee wrote:

wyo-cat wrote:...or Rape-lor.

Those are pretty strong words for someone who wasn't charged. Sounds like the daddy is driving this train wreck

He was making a play on words with the Baylor situation.

Disappointed in EP. Hate to see it ending on this note.

Catintheheat wrote:That says a lot about CSM and the athletic department. Arizona has a high ethical standard and won't let things slide when their players misbehave. Bravo! We are not Penn State.

Neither CSM, nor the Athletic Department had anything to do with this - in fact, according to the article in today's Star, they were probably never informed of any details....

... and, that's as it should be - the fact that this whole process moved forward without any notification to the athletic department reflects well on the U of A.

OTOH, the incident that was addressed did not occur within the athletic department (as at Penn State) and therefore did not involve reporting/disclosure/follow-through by any coaches of athletic department administrators....

Now who would take Pitts after this?

So the rumors were true.

Campus rapes are a very serious problem. Most (90%?) go unreported.

One interesting thing on this is that the said girl and Pitts were seen at the PAC 12 tournament together by many people, looking like a normal happy couple

Merkin wrote:Now who would take Pitts after this?

So the rumors were true.

Campus rapes are a very serious problem. Most (90%?) go unreported.

It's still possible to jump to premature conclusions here. If the allegations were "rape", then the U of A could be remiss for not referring for criminal investigation....

The UA investigation found Pitts responsible for four violations of the university code of conduct:

•   Sexual misconduct, a category that includes sexual violence, non-consensual sex and sexual harassment severe enough to create a hostile environment. It also includes non-consensual photographing or recording of a student engaged in sexual activity.

•  Stalking, defined as “repeated or significant behavior toward another individual, whether in person, in writing or through electronic means, after having been asked to stop, or doing so to such a degree that a reasonable person subject to such contact would regard the contact as unwanted.”

•   “Endangering, threatening or causing physical harm to any member of the university community or to oneself, causing reasonable apprehension of such harm or engaging in conduct or communication that a reasonable person would interpret as a serious expression of intent to harm.”

•   Off-campus conduct that “may present a risk or a danger to the health, safety or security of the board or university community or to the safety or security of the board or university property.”

http://tucson.com/news/local/education/ ... 9b30b.html" target="_blank

The article includes some details about the investigation, but very little about the specifics of the incdent...

whatisee wrote:

wyo-cat wrote:...or Rape-lor.

Those are pretty strong words for someone who wasn't charged. Sounds like the daddy is driving this train wreck

This is how a professionally run athletic department handles this type of situation. Unlike Baylor.

We need the specific facts in EP's case. Does not appear to be at the level of "rape".

UA finding of "sexual misconduct" implies a lesser degree of culpability.

wyo-cat wrote:

whatisee wrote:

wyo-cat wrote:...or Rape-lor.

Those are pretty strong words for someone who wasn't charged. Sounds like the daddy is driving this train wreck

This is how a professionally run athletic department handles this type of situation. Unlike Baylor.

Again, the Athletic Department had NOTHING to do with the investigation, the findings or the discipline.

Let's deal with the actual facts, please!

Pitts, who was not criminally charged in the Dec. 6 incident that led to his suspension, said through his attorney Saturday that the outcome was grossly unfair.

“I categorically deny any allegation or suggestion of sexual misconduct. Both of us were under the influence of alcohol, but we were fully aware of what we were doing,” Pitts said in an email statement given to the Star by Tucson attorney Ali Farhang.''

Pitts’ accuser — questioned by campus police officers when she was half-asleep and highly intoxicated — initially indicated their encounter was consensual, said Alan Goodwin, special victims unit supervisor with the Pima County Attorney’s Office.

The patrol officers, wearing body cameras, woke the student and started asking questions before she was fully awake, Goodwin said. The resulting video “would have been Defense Exhibit Number One” had the case gone to court, he said.

“She was two to three times the legal limit to drive when this was happening,” Goodwin said. “She probably needed to sober up some but even if not stone sober, she should have had some amount of time to get her wits about her before she is answering questions.”

Campus police Chief Brian Seastone defended his officers’ actions in an email statement Friday. He said they wanted to check on the student’s welfare after a residence assistant in her dorm called for help.

http://tucson.com/news/local/education/ ... 9b30b.html" target="_blank



Miller may not have known the details of Pitts’ disciplinary situation as it was unfolding. UA Dean of Students Kendal Washington White said her office is solely responsible for handling student misconduct cases — the athletic department would not be privy to detailed information but may get periodic reports on the progress and outcome of a case, she said.

Miller, athletic director Greg Byrne and university President Ann Weaver Hart would not answer questions for this story.

Pitts’ statement said he and his family “are currently reviewing our legal options.”

“I will vigorously fight to clear my name and prove my innocence,” he said.

pc in NM wrote:

wyo-cat wrote:

whatisee wrote:

wyo-cat wrote:...or Rape-lor.

Those are pretty strong words for someone who wasn't charged. Sounds like the daddy is driving this train wreck

This is how a professionally run athletic department handles this type of situation. Unlike Baylor.

Again, the Athletic Department had NOTHING to do with the investigation, the findings or the discipline.

Let's deal with the actual facts, please!

Well except for the part where he was suspended from the team and didn't play. You can't tell me that Miller had no idea that Pitts was suspended. Let's deal with the actual facts please.

"The UA investigation found Pitts responsible for four violations of the university code of conduct:..."

What were they?? Violations of a code of conduct. Not criminal.

Boy, sure seems weak. (based on the article) Not enough detailed info.

Way too many privacy issues to ever get detailed info in instances like this. And that's for the best.

ASUHATER! wrote:

pc in NM wrote:

wyo-cat wrote:

whatisee wrote:

wyo-cat wrote:...or Rape-lor.

Those are pretty strong words for someone who wasn't charged. Sounds like the daddy is driving this train wreck

This is how a professionally run athletic department handles this type of situation. Unlike Baylor.

Again, the Athletic Department had NOTHING to do with the investigation, the findings or the discipline.

Let's deal with the actual facts, please!

Well except for the part where he was suspended from the team and didn't play. You can't tell me that Miller had no idea that Pitts was suspended. Let's deal with the actual facts please.

I based my comments on the information in the article:

Pitts did not appear in another Wildcats game after the internal investigation began. Men’s basketball coach Sean Miller explained his absence by saying Pitts had stepped aside over a “personal issue.” Pitts left the team for good on Feb. 17.

If you have information to the contrary, please share it....

Both of us were under the influence of alcohol

Pitts’ accuser — questioned by campus police officers when she was half-asleep and highly intoxicated

On California campuses, a drunk woman cannot give consent.

http://www.npr.org/2014/09/29/352385534 ... before-sex" target="_blank

Under the bill, someone who is drunk, drugged, unconscious or asleep cannot grant consent.


From the ABOR Code of Conduct:

http://azregents.asu.edu/rrc/Policy%20M ... onduct.pdf" target="_blank

Consent may never be given by a person who is: incapacitated (by
drugs, alcohol or otherwise), unconscious, asleep, or otherwise
physically or mentally unable to make informed, rational judgments.
The use of alcohol or drugs does not diminish one’s responsibility to
obtain consent and does not excuse conduct that violates this Student
Code of Conduct


It's pretty clear Pitts was in the wrong here.

Merkin wrote: Both of us were under the influence of alcohol

Pitts’ accuser — questioned by campus police officers when she was half-asleep and highly intoxicated

On California campuses, a drunk woman cannot give consent.

http://www.npr.org/2014/09/29/352385534 ... before-sex" target="_blank

Under the bill, someone who is drunk, drugged, unconscious or asleep cannot grant consent.


From the ABOR Code of Conduct:

http://azregents.asu.edu/rrc/Policy%20M ... onduct.pdf" target="_blank

Consent may never be given by a person who is: incapacitated (by
drugs, alcohol or otherwise), unconscious, asleep, or otherwise
physically or mentally unable to make informed, rational judgments.
The use of alcohol or drugs does not diminish one’s responsibility to
obtain consent and does not excuse conduct that violates this Student
Code of Conduct

"Consent may never be given by a person who is: incapacitated"

Well arguably she wasn't incapacitated, and in fact agreed to something.
I can't (or don't want to) believe Elliot was a dirt bag kind of kid taking advantage of someone.

Merkin wrote:Now who would take Pitts after this?

Maryland?
Oregon?

HiCat wrote:

Merkin wrote: Both of us were under the influence of alcohol

Pitts’ accuser — questioned by campus police officers when she was half-asleep and highly intoxicated

On California campuses, a drunk woman cannot give consent.

http://www.npr.org/2014/09/29/352385534 ... before-sex" target="_blank

Under the bill, someone who is drunk, drugged, unconscious or asleep cannot grant consent.


From the ABOR Code of Conduct:

http://azregents.asu.edu/rrc/Policy%20M ... onduct.pdf" target="_blank

Consent may never be given by a person who is: incapacitated (by
drugs, alcohol or otherwise), unconscious, asleep, or otherwise
physically or mentally unable to make informed, rational judgments.
The use of alcohol or drugs does not diminish one’s responsibility to
obtain consent and does not excuse conduct that violates this Student
Code of Conduct

"Consent may never be given by a person who is: incapacitated"

Well arguably she wasn't incapacitated, and in fact agreed to something.
I can't (or don't want to) believe Elliot was a dirt bag kind of kid taking advantage of someone.

I would say she wasn't in her right mind and Pitts took advantage of that.

How old is Pitts anyway? I didn't turn 21 until I was a junior in college. I'm guessing one of the infractions was underage drinking.

I can't say much more about the guilt of Pitts, but I do know he wasn't very bright. All of this was avoidable.

She said it was consensual at first and then switched it up? Am I reading this right?

Pitts put himself in a risky situation. I'm sure he had training on how to avoid getting into this type of mess. A U of A basketball player should know better and manage the attention and responsibility of being on the U's most prestigious program.

I'm not against Pitts by any means, but he put himself and the program at risk and he needs to accept and learn from this experience. We hold ourselves to a higher standard than Baylor, Oregon and Iowa under Alford, and I'm all for it.

25 witnesses? Must of been one heck of a show.

CalStateTempe wrote:

Merkin wrote:Now who would take Pitts after this?

Maryland?
Oregon?

Pitts is not good enough of a player for a program with questionable recruiting choices to take a chance. If he wants to play college basketball again, he probably will need to go to Division II. I am fine with the way the university handled the situation, but I do not think he should have been allowed to be on the sidelines with the team once he had been suspended.

az91 wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:

Merkin wrote:Now who would take Pitts after this?

Maryland?
Oregon?

Pitts is not good enough of a player for a program with questionable recruiting choices to take a chance. If he wants to play college basketball again, he probably will need to go to Division II. I am fine with the way the university handled the situation, but I do not think he should have been allowed to be on the sidelines with the team once he had been suspended.

If Miller didn't know the situation, couldn't ask about it, but did know he couldn't play due to an internal university discipline issue, then I can see why he would be allowed to sit on the bench with his team. It wasn't as if the university had kicked him out of school or mandated he not be a part of the team. The only question then would be what Miller suspected or was told by Pitts about the situation as to whether it was right for him to be appearing with the team.

Chicat wrote:

az91 wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:

Merkin wrote:Now who would take Pitts after this?

Maryland?
Oregon?

Pitts is not good enough of a player for a program with questionable recruiting choices to take a chance. If he wants to play college basketball again, he probably will need to go to Division II. I am fine with the way the university handled the situation, but I do not think he should have been allowed to be on the sidelines with the team once he had been suspended.

If Miller didn't know the situation, couldn't ask about it, but did know he couldn't play due to an internal university discipline issue, then I can see why he would be allowed to sit on the bench with his team. It wasn't as if the university had kicked him out of school or mandated he not be a part of the team. The only question then would be what Miller suspected or was told by Pitts about the situation as to whether it was right for him to be appearing with the team.

97cats knew what it was as of the first week in January - go look at the old thread. Miller definitely knew.

KaibabKat wrote:25 witnesses? Must of been one heck of a show.

The way a Title IX investigation works includes bringing in anybody connected to both parties. This could be people who were around them before or after the incident, and also includes character "witnesses" for both parties. A former Baylor student posted blog posts that detail Title IX investigations very thoroughly, I think a link was posted in the Baylor football thread.

Main Event wrote:She said it was consensual at first and then switched it up? Am I reading this right?

It sounds like when officers woke her at the scene, she said it was consensual. But that's where that Alan Goodwin's comments are relevant, as she should have been afforded some time to become lucid/cognizant before being officially questioned. I believe the fact that officer body cameras captured this first interaction is the main reason that there was not a criminal case. I think the officers were genuinely checking on a student, and the unfortunate situation created a barrier to legal action.

If the two were seen at the P12 tourney together, that certainly makes thing more interesting. Somewhat reminiscent of Kadeem's situation.

Pitts is dumb.

If he took advantage of this woman, he is dumb and a terrible person.

If he didn't and is still with her after false allegstions (which appear unlikely given the above) he is dumb.

We don't know exactly what happened, but the fact is Pitts cannot put himself in this situation. It's the middle of the season and you're out drinking and hooking up with a chick who can barely stand up. Whether she said "no" or not really isn't the issue. You have to be smarter, and the expectations of our players are much higher.

prh wrote:If the two were seen at the P12 tourney together, that certainly makes thing more interesting. Somewhat reminiscent of Kadeem's situation.

I hate to ask, but what is Kadeem's situation?

az91 wrote:

prh wrote:If the two were seen at the P12 tourney together, that certainly makes thing more interesting. Somewhat reminiscent of Kadeem's situation.

I hate to ask, but what is Kadeem's situation?

He is referring to KaDeem Carey, who I believe is still with the woman he had his incident with.

UAEebs86 wrote:

az91 wrote:

prh wrote:If the two were seen at the P12 tourney together, that certainly makes thing more interesting. Somewhat reminiscent of Kadeem's situation.

I hate to ask, but what is Kadeem's situation?

He is referring to KaDeem Carey, who I believe is still with the woman he had his incident with.

Thanks Eebs! Yes, that is what I was referring to. They are indeed still together, married with two kids. Seem like they're doing well.

KaibabKat wrote:25 witnesses? Must of been one heck of a show.

Maybe people who were at the same party and saw them drinking and/or leaving together?

Not much of a stretch to figure out how there could be perfectly innocent interactions with dozens of people.

You don't need to jump to conclusion that they were shooting a porn movie in a crowded nightclub for crying out loud.

Maybe both parties were equally drunk? Still a bad move on Pitts' part, but from the legal perspective things seem abundantly clear. However, from the code of conduct perspective, things are also unfortunately clear.

Merkin wrote: Both of us were under the influence of alcohol

Pitts’ accuser — questioned by campus police officers when she was half-asleep and highly intoxicated

It's pretty clear Pitts was in the wrong here.

Arizona is not California. If there was a rape he would have been arrested. I'm not pretty clear of anything regarding this case including Pitts being in the wrong

whatisee wrote:

Merkin wrote: Both of us were under the influence of alcohol

Pitts’ accuser — questioned by campus police officers when she was half-asleep and highly intoxicated

It's pretty clear Pitts was in the wrong here.

Arizona is not California. If there was a rape he would have been arrested. I'm not pretty clear of anything regarding this case including Pitts being in the wrong

I was talking about the AZ ABOR code of conduct (below) where Pitts was in the wrong. In CA, it would have been criminal, in AZ it's only an university issue.

Consent may never be given by a person who is: incapacitated (by
drugs, alcohol or otherwise), unconscious, asleep, or otherwise
physically or mentally unable to make informed, rational judgments.

If she was 2 or 3 times the legal limit and half asleep, she would be mentally unable to make an informed rational judgement.

Here is the legal definition of incapacitated:

http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/ ... tated.aspx" target="_blank

"Incapacitated person means an individual who, for reasons other than being a minor, is unable to receive and evaluate information or make or communicate decisions to such an extent that the individual lacks the ability to meet essential requirements for physical health, safety, or self-care, even with appropriate technological assistance."

whatisee wrote:

Merkin wrote: Both of us were under the influence of alcohol

Pitts’ accuser — questioned by campus police officers when she was half-asleep and highly intoxicated

It's pretty clear Pitts was in the wrong here.

Arizona is not California. If there was a rape he would have been arrested. I'm not pretty clear of anything regarding this case including Pitts being in the wrong

You're not really this stupid / naive are you?

HiCat wrote:We need the specific facts in EP's case. Does not appear to be at the level of "rape".

UA finding of "sexual misconduct" implies a lesser degree of culpability.

Under Arizona law, the alleged victim can consent til she's blue in the face, but if she's heavily intoxicated and Pitts knew she was, that consent means nothing. We don't know all the facts, but police say she was heavily intoxicated and was 2-3x over the legal limit.

We can go on and on about the "consent while intoxicate" stuff being just or not. We all know people frequently engage in sexual conduct when intoxicated, but you put yourself at risk by engaging in that behavior. He's lucky he hasn't been charged criminally, whatever the reason is.

Alieberman wrote:

whatisee wrote:

Merkin wrote: Both of us were under the influence of alcohol

Pitts’ accuser — questioned by campus police officers when she was half-asleep and highly intoxicated

It's pretty clear Pitts was in the wrong here.

Arizona is not California. If there was a rape he would have been arrested. I'm not pretty clear of anything regarding this case including Pitts being in the wrong

You're not really this stupid / naive are you?

You don't normally jump the gun without all the facts do you? Wtf do you know what happened.

whatisee wrote:

Alieberman wrote:

whatisee wrote:

Merkin wrote: Both of us were under the influence of alcohol

Pitts’ accuser — questioned by campus police officers when she was half-asleep and highly intoxicated

It's pretty clear Pitts was in the wrong here.

Arizona is not California. If there was a rape he would have been arrested. I'm not pretty clear of anything regarding this case including Pitts being in the wrong

You're not really this stupid / naive are you?

You don't normally jump the gun without all the facts do you? Wtf do you know what happened.

We do know what happened.

Pitts, who was not criminally charged in the Dec. 6 incident that led to his suspension, said through his attorney Saturday that the outcome was grossly unfair.

“I categorically deny any allegation or suggestion of sexual misconduct. Both of us were under the influence of alcohol, but we were fully aware of what we were doing,” Pitts said in an email statement given to the Star by Tucson attorney Ali Farhang.''

Pitts’ accuser — questioned by campus police officers when she was half-asleep and highly intoxicated — initially indicated their encounter was consensual, said Alan Goodwin, special victims unit supervisor with the Pima County Attorney’s Office.

Pitts admitted alcohol was involved, and the police found the victim in a "highly intoxicated" state.

As noted above, a drunk woman giving consent is not giving consent, according to the ABOR Code of Conduct for students.

I don't think the school had any choice in the matter if the victim filed a complaint.

whatisee wrote:

Alieberman wrote:

whatisee wrote:

Merkin wrote: Both of us were under the influence of alcohol

Pitts’ accuser — questioned by campus police officers when she was half-asleep and highly intoxicated

It's pretty clear Pitts was in the wrong here.

Arizona is not California. If there was a rape he would have been arrested. I'm not pretty clear of anything regarding this case including Pitts being in the wrong

You're not really this stupid / naive are you?

You don't normally jump the gun without all the facts do you? Wtf do you know what happened.

I was taking exception to your statement that if rapes are committed = arrests being made.... which is statistically far, far, far from the truth.

Alieberman wrote:

whatisee wrote:

Alieberman wrote:

whatisee wrote:

Merkin wrote: Both of us were under the influence of alcohol

Pitts’ accuser — questioned by campus police officers when she was half-asleep and highly intoxicated

It's pretty clear Pitts was in the wrong here.

Arizona is not California. If there was a rape he would have been arrested. I'm not pretty clear of anything regarding this case including Pitts being in the wrong

You're not really this stupid / naive are you?

You don't normally jump the gun without all the facts do you? Wtf do you know what happened.

I was taking exception to your statement that if rapes are committed = arrests being made.... which is statistically far, far, far from the truth.

Also seems like this was more to this given the 2nd and 3rd violations listed by the Daily Star article.

So if you have a beer with a lady (UOA) you shouldn't plan to get to 2nd or 3rd base eh. (let alone scoring)

Merkin wrote:

whatisee wrote:

Alieberman wrote:

whatisee wrote:

Merkin wrote: Both of us were under the influence of alcohol

Pitts’ accuser — questioned by campus police officers when she was half-asleep and highly intoxicated

It's pretty clear Pitts was in the wrong here.

Arizona is not California. If there was a rape he would have been arrested. I'm not pretty clear of anything regarding this case including Pitts being in the wrong

You're not really this stupid / naive are you?

You don't normally jump the gun without all the facts do you? Wtf do you know what happened.

We do know what happened.

Pitts, who was not criminally charged in the Dec. 6 incident that led to his suspension, said through his attorney Saturday that the outcome was grossly unfair.

“I categorically deny any allegation or suggestion of sexual misconduct. Both of us were under the influence of alcohol, but we were fully aware of what we were doing,” Pitts said in an email statement given to the Star by Tucson attorney Ali Farhang.''

Pitts’ accuser — questioned by campus police officers when she was half-asleep and highly intoxicated — initially indicated their encounter was consensual, said Alan Goodwin, special victims unit supervisor with the Pima County Attorney’s Office.

Pitts admitted alcohol was involved, and the police found the victim in a "highly intoxicated" state.

As noted above, a drunk woman giving consent is not giving consent, according to the ABOR Code of Conduct for students.

I don't think the school had any choice in the matter if the victim filed a complaint.

Also, from the story, it appears that others were concerned and called the police - something untoward must have occurred to provoke that response, in the first place....

Who is this Carol Ann Alaimo and why is the "story" coming out now?

This has been common knowledge around town for months. I played golf at La Paloma back in Feb with 2 random guys who knew more than shes reporting