UA v. MSU Armed Forces Classic discussion thread

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:30 am

MSU by 20.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:47 am

ChooChooCat wrote:MSU by 20.

Really? I just don't see that but we are pretty young and untested

Zero · Post by **Zero** » Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:39 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:MSU by 20.

Ridiculous.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:42 pm

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:46 pm

Like both of those uniforms. I expect the cats to play well but that is always the expectation.

Zero · Post by **Zero** » Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:52 pm

I need those shorts.

84Cat · Post by **84Cat** » Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:52 pm

Just posting the video from the tweet above

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:01 pm

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:12 pm

Let's look at Michigan State.

Likely Starters
PG Cassius Winston - 6'2", 185 Freshman: Consensus Top 25 prospect
SG Eron Harris - 6'3", 190 Senior: 9.3 ppg, 2.6 ppg, 2.1 apg
SF Josh Langford - 6'5", 210 Freshman: Consensus Top 25 prospect
PF Miles Bridges - 6'7", 225 Freshman: Consensus Top 10 prospect
C Nick Ward - 6'8", 248 Freshman: Consensus Top 50 prospect

Key Bench Players
G Tum Tum Nairn - 5'10", 170 Junior: 2.8 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 3.3 apg
G Alvin Ellis III - 6'4", 198 Senior: 2.6 ppg, 1.5 rpg, 1.1 apg
G Matt McQuaid - 6'5", 200 Sophomore: 3.5 ppg, 0.8 rpg, 1.6 apg
G Kyle Ahrens - 6'5", 215 Sophomore: 1.2 ppg, 0.6 rpg, 0.3 apg
F Matt Van Dyke - 6'5", 220 Senior: 1.2 ppg, 0.7 rpg, 0.3 apg
F Kenny Goins - 6'6", 230 Sophomore: 2.0 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 0.8 apg

First thought: Damn, they've got more players than us. Quick check of the injury report though and it looks like Langford hasn't played yet due to a hamstring sprain (missing both exhibitions) and Ward strained his back and will have to fight through some pain and tightness (against three seven footers).

Okay so both teams dealing with some depth issues.

At the point guard spot they've got Cassius Winston (freshman) and Tum Tum (junior of PJC's size)... so we luck out there with PJC not giving up too much size to the young Winston and comparably sized to Tum Tum. Winston is a four star freshman who averaged 14pts and 7.5 assists in their two exhibitions and Tum Tum his a gifted passer who has not shown an ability to consistently score in his two years in E. Lansing.

Eron Harris can flat out score, averaging 17ppg at WVU though he didn't always show it last year in his first transfer season. Hopefully Kadeem can keep him in check.

Josh Langford is a former AAU teammate of Kobi's and played on the ADIDAS Euro USA Select team with Kobi and Rawle (with Rawle showing out and taking home tournament MVP). I think both of our guys are better than Langford when he's healthy, so hopefully they handle the 3/4 strength version.

Miles Bridges is a fucking problem. He scored 53 points across their two exhibition games. The kid is the real deal. Hopefully our interior size bothers him. I don't know what else to do but pray.

Nick Ward, 6'8" playing center due to injuries but with a 7'2" wingspan and some seriously broad shoulders. He'll be banging our boys down low but again, he may see minutes restrictions due to injury. Also, I'm pretty sure he can't shoot for shit (including FTs) so hopefully we punish him in the paint.

Of the other bench players, Matt McQuaid and Kenny Goins are the most likely to make an impact. Ahrens is the homeless version of McQuaid and Van Dyke is a walk-on. McQuaid is a deceptively good (read: he's white) player with a good shooting stroke and solid defense. He'll likely lead the team in 3pt attempts with Harris. Goins is a former walk on who plays a Keanu Pinder role: willing and forceful defender and rebounder who isn't expected to do much offensively. He's only 6'6" but at 225lbs (and with the injuries across the MSU frontcourt) we're likely to see him at the PF spot. If Lauri and Chance and Pinder can rebound and shoot over the top of Goins, that will take a lot of punch out of the toughness of the MSU front line.

So am I concerned? Well I think we'll see both teams play AAU ball with shitty defensive positioning and rotation and plenty of ISO offense. So knowing how far we have to come (and feeling that sickness in my stomach) - at least they're in the same boat. As far as matchups, I think they've got some dangerous pieces that hopefully we can counter with good defense (that's a prayer) but naturally with just our length.

Our guys are going to have their hands full but I fully expect us to be in this game. We fought a tough one against Chico State, but MSU struggled with consistency against Saginaw Valley St (ranked 4th among DII schools against Chico St's 11th) - holding a half time lead that was put into contention in the second before closing +10. Their 18 TOs and admitted mental lapses are likely to blame.

I'm worried, of course, but MSU fans should be as well.

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:04 pm

They beat Northwood 93-69. Bridges had 33, Ward 19

http://www.msuspartans.com/sports/m-bas ... xb-nu.html" target="_blank

and they beat Saginaw Valley St 87-77. Bridges 20, Winston 18

http://www.msuspartans.com/sports/m-bas ... hsvsu.html" target="_blank

They are shooting well. 55% FGs and 45% 3s

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Nov 07, 2016 5:55 pm

Bridges is really good. Kind of a bigger, better shooting Justise Winslow. He's the one guy we really don't have a lot of answers for without Ray.

The remainder, well, this is a game that either team could roll or completely poop the bed.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Mon Nov 07, 2016 6:15 pm

Time and channel for game?

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Mon Nov 07, 2016 6:31 pm

156 to 147, Cats.

Camouflage hides players. Defenses helpless.

84Cat · Post by **84Cat** » Mon Nov 07, 2016 6:48 pm

CalStateTempe wrote:Time and channel for game?

Friday 5 pm ESPN

http://www.arizonawildcats.com/schedule ... ath=mbball" target="_blank

baconus66 · Post by **baconus66** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:34 am

I was and am pretty concerned about this game, but if Chance is playing 4 out of 8 of our active scholarship players are taller than their tallest player. If the big guys can stay out of foul trouble on D hopefully they can eat them up inside and dominate on rebounds as well.

This game is going to take some masterful bench management by Miller to try to keep our guys fresh

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:36 am

It's important to remember that both teams are going to get better as the season goes along. For Arizona, this isn't an experienced team. This is a young team, that with very few exceptions, has really no court time in college basketball.

Win/lose, it's gonna be a blast to watch this team grow.

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:54 am

MSU has started Nairns, Harris, McQuad, Bridges and Goins in there 1st to exhibition games and that's there projected 5

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 10:00 am

Michigan State basketball: Langford expected to play, unis revealed
6:14 p.m. EST November 7, 2016

Izzo said he shooting guard Langford will be ready Friday when No. 9 Michigan State opens its season against No. 11 Arizona in the Armed Forces Classic in Honolulu.

“I feel great,” Langford said Monday. “It’s been a while since I’ve been on the court, so my legs are still kind of weak a little bit, but I feel great. I felt good to be back on the court today and be able to practice full.”

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/colle ... /93427312/" target="_blank

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:40 am

Main Event wrote:MSU has started Nairns, Harris, McQuad, Bridges and Goins in there 1st to exhibition games and that's there projected 5

I will be thoroughly surprised if Izzo starts a 6'6" former walk on (Goins) at center against us (despite his long wingspan). The two exhibition games didn't play anyone over 6'9".

It'll be interesting to see how Izzo deals with our height in the post. With Chance we're a nightmare matchup for MSU in the paint - should be good game film for Izzo to figure out the rest of the season.

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:53 am

College GameDay Covered by State Farm begins coverage at 6:30 p.m. EST on ESPN and ESPN Radio from the Stan Sheriff Center. Host Karl Ravech will be joined by college basketball analysts Jay Williams and Seth Greenberg with reporter Andy Katz. Analysts Dan Shulman and Jay Bilas will call the games with reporter Molly McGrath

10,300 capacity

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:18 pm

YoDeFoe wrote:
Main Event wrote:MSU has started Nairns, Harris, McQuad, Bridges and Goins in there 1st to exhibition games and that's there projected 5
I will be thoroughly surprised if Izzo starts a 6'6" former walk on (Goins) at center against us (despite his long wingspan). The two exhibition games didn't play anyone over 6'9".

It'll be interesting to see how Izzo deals with our height in the post. With Chance we're a nightmare matchup for MSU in the paint - should be good game film for Izzo to figure out the rest of the season.

He may just say screw it. MSU can't match our size, so why try? The flip side is our size has to deal with their more perimeter oriented lineup.

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:29 pm

YoDeFoe wrote:
Main Event wrote:MSU has started Nairns, Harris, McQuad, Bridges and Goins in there 1st to exhibition games and that's there projected 5
I will be thoroughly surprised if Izzo starts a 6'6" former walk on (Goins) at center against us (despite his long wingspan). The two exhibition games didn't play anyone over 6'9".

It'll be interesting to see how Izzo deals with our height in the post. With Chance we're a nightmare matchup for MSU in the paint - should be good game film for Izzo to figure out the rest of the season.

If he was going to start a freshman he would have started in the 2 exhibition games getting him acclimated with the others.

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Tue Nov 08, 2016 1:21 pm

Main Event wrote:
YoDeFoe wrote:
Main Event wrote:MSU has started Nairns, Harris, McQuad, Bridges and Goins in there 1st to exhibition games and that's there projected 5
I will be thoroughly surprised if Izzo starts a 6'6" former walk on (Goins) at center against us (despite his long wingspan). The two exhibition games didn't play anyone over 6'9".

It'll be interesting to see how Izzo deals with our height in the post. With Chance we're a nightmare matchup for MSU in the paint - should be good game film for Izzo to figure out the rest of the season.
If he was going to start a freshman he would have started in the 2 exhibition games getting him acclimated with the others.

Could be the back issue. If Ward was being held out of practice it'd make sense to give Goins the nod.

Irish27 · Post by **Irish27** » Wed Nov 09, 2016 6:52 pm

I hope the shirt Kobi is wearing will be available for the public to buy.

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:38 pm

Being a former Navy Reservist while at the U of A...GO NAVY!

PS. Love Kobi's shirt....that should be our theme this year.

msufan · Post by **msufan** » Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:58 am

Hey guys, Spartan fan here. I'm really looking forward to this game. MSU fans are sort of down and out right now due to our struggling football team, so we're looking forward to basketball season.

I'm not totally sure what to expect from this game but I would probably lean Arizona by 6-8 pts. First off, we typically struggle in these early non-conference games against good teams. Izzo likes to tinker with his lineups early on, and sometimes well into the conference schedule. Also, I think our weaknesses play pretty well to your strengths. Due to injuries, we don't have much depth in the front court right now, and I understand you guys have pretty good size (though I realize you have your share of injuries as well). I just think we're going to have a really tough time in the paint, particularly on the defensive end.

That said, the 3-ball can be the ultimate equalizer, so if we shoot it well then we'll have a chance. Miles Bridges looks to be the real deal, but there's no telling how he will perform in his first collegiate game against legit competition.

I really like Sean Miller, going back to his Xavier days. I really respect your program as well, and hope we get a fun, injury-free game tomorrow!

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:19 am

msufan wrote:Hey guys, Spartan fan here. I'm really looking forward to this game. MSU fans are sort of down and out right now due to our struggling football team, so we're looking forward to basketball season.

I'm not totally sure what to expect from this game but I would probably lean Arizona by 6-8 pts. First off, we typically struggle in these early non-conference games against good teams. Izzo likes to tinker with his lineups early on, and sometimes well into the conference schedule. Also, I think our weaknesses play pretty well to your strengths. Due to injuries, we don't have much depth in the front court right now, and I understand you guys have pretty good size (though I realize you have your share of injuries as well). I just think we're going to have a really tough time in the paint, particularly on the defensive end.

That said, the 3-ball can be the ultimate equalizer, so if we shoot it well then we'll have a chance. Miles Bridges looks to be the real deal, but there's no telling how he will perform in his first collegiate game against legit competition.

I really like Sean Miller, going back to his Xavier days. I really respect your program as well, and hope we get a fun, injury-free game tomorrow!

Awesome post. Thanks for the insight into your side. I think Arizona fans are lying if they say they are expecting a win...quite frankly, we are unsure as of our team right now...already dealing with a couple issues without a game under the belt. One thing is pretty sure, 3 point shooting is not gonna be a strength of the team this year. Bridges is great, not sure we have an answer for him on defense...perhaps the strategy is to get him in early foul trouble. We do have size down low, so we should expect to go at the rim.

I know Miller has a roster set, but this first game should be interesting. He's stated that we will get better as the year goes along, and that we shouldnt' be judged in our early games.

On a side note, Izzo is one of my all time favs...dude can flat out coach.

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:01 am

From Kokoskie at Pearl Harbor

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:11 am

msufan wrote:Hey guys, Spartan fan here. I'm really looking forward to this game. MSU fans are sort of down and out right now due to our struggling football team, so we're looking forward to basketball season.

I'm not totally sure what to expect from this game but I would probably lean Arizona by 6-8 pts. First off, we typically struggle in these early non-conference games against good teams. Izzo likes to tinker with his lineups early on, and sometimes well into the conference schedule. Also, I think our weaknesses play pretty well to your strengths. Due to injuries, we don't have much depth in the front court right now, and I understand you guys have pretty good size (though I realize you have your share of injuries as well). I just think we're going to have a really tough time in the paint, particularly on the defensive end.

That said, the 3-ball can be the ultimate equalizer, so if we shoot it well then we'll have a chance. Miles Bridges looks to be the real deal, but there's no telling how he will perform in his first collegiate game against legit competition.

I really like Sean Miller, going back to his Xavier days. I really respect your program as well, and hope we get a fun, injury-free game tomorrow!

Nice post. Welcome, discussion from opposing fans is always appreciated.

Both teams are sort of unknown quantities at this point. We've got some talent, but there's a lot of adjustment and integration to be done. You guys have some talent, especially Bridges. I think he will dominate at the college level. It seems like you have some of the same issues with a young roster than needs to be dialed in a bit.

It could go either way, and I think a lot depends on who has the better night. Mistakes, defensive rotation, shooting the 3, all of that is big. I have a ton of respect for Izzo, and if Arizona wins, I'd take a lot of pride in it.

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:15 am

I think we all share these sentiments: both great coaches doing what they can with a roster much different from what they expected at the end of last season.

Looking forward to a good game - respect the heck out of Izzo (one of the greatest) and the MSU basketball program.

msufan · Post by **msufan** » Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:25 am

I was thinking earlier, it's kinda crazy MSU and Arizona have only met once in the tourney over the last couple decades, considering the success of both programs. You guys got us pretty good in that final four game in 2001 I believe it was. I still remember your match up with Illinois in the regional final very well. That was an exciting game. I was pulling for the Illini (for Big Ten pride) but pulled like hell for you guys to beat Duke. Friggin' Duke.

84Cat · Post by **84Cat** » Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:30 am

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:39 am

That is so cool. Those kids must be having a great time and to see an active ship would be unbelievable. Those kids serving looked as young as our kids so that should bring some perspective to all that participated. Love the shirts as well.

As for the game we can only hope for a great game for both teams and that those serving are very much entertained. Nice to see basketball kick off for real and we can relate with MSU having football struggles. Go Cats!!!

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:46 am

msufan wrote:I was thinking earlier, it's kinda crazy MSU and Arizona have only met once in the tourney over the last couple decades, considering the success of both programs. You guys got us pretty good in that final four game in 2001 I believe it was. I still remember your match up with Illinois in the regional final very well. That was an exciting game. I was pulling for the Illini (for Big Ten pride) but pulled like hell for you guys to beat Duke. Friggin' Duke.

Most of us are still mad at MSU for hurting Arenas's shoulder in 2001. If he was healthy and refs called a foul or two in the first half, we'd have another NC.

In all seriousness though, Izzo and MSU would be a top 5 program in terms of schools I respect nationally. Izzo's teams always come to play and are tough as nails. Even in years they're less talented, people don't ever walk over them. Miller has pushed to instill a similar culture of toughness here, but Izzo has been doing it since the Flintstones and before.

In short, this is the kind of game I love Arizona opening with. If we win, I'll be pumped. If we lose, you guys got us, and I'll just wish you good luck from here on. Regardless, it might be a sloppy game, but I fully expect both teams to bring the effort and make the other earn it.

TucsonClip · Post by **TucsonClip** » Thu Nov 10, 2016 12:26 pm

Thanks for posting here MSUfan.

We've all gone over the matchups and breakdowns here. In all honesty, both teams are reeling. The injury bug has hit us both and we're down our best player (Trier). Adding up all the emotions of what has happened the last few weeks/months/years to our program, the start of basketball season and a really even matchup, this feels like an Elite Eight game to me.

The build up for this game has been quite intense, IMO, and the nervous energy definitely feels like a second weekend pairing in March.

I cant wait for the game, and fully expect it to be a slugfest for 40+ minutes. The turning point will likely be the play on the perimeter for both teams, mainly how we defend out there.

Gilbertcat · Post by **Gilbertcat** » Thu Nov 10, 2016 12:54 pm

msu opens at a -1.5

http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-bas ... las-vegas/" target="_blank

KCF · Post by **KCF** » Thu Nov 10, 2016 12:56 pm

Zero wrote:I need those shorts.

I need those Kobe's

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Thu Nov 10, 2016 1:39 pm

KCF wrote:
Zero wrote:I need those shorts.
I need those Kobe's

It only gets weird when you need Kobi's shorts.

qwertyus · Post by **qwertyus** » Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:30 pm

gumby wrote:156 to 147, Cats.

Camouflage hides players. Defenses helpless.

This is why we need rep!!!

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Fri Nov 11, 2016 5:26 am

Arizona Wildcats can learn a lot about themselves in season opener

By Bruce Pascoe Arizona Daily Star Updated 1 hr ago (0)

“They’ve had some things they have gone through, but they have a little more balance of size,” Michigan State coach Tom Izzo said. “In fact, I think that’s their strength right now, their size. So we’re similar in what we’ve gone through, but completely different in how our teams look.”

Arizona “is playing against a team in Michigan State that’s a little bit different,” says ESPN analyst Jay Bilas, who is working the Armed Forces Classic. “They’ve got some freshmen who are outstanding. Nick Ward is much better than people think, and Miles Bridges scored 33 points in his first exhibition game. You don’t see many guys do that in their first game in a college uniform.”

Who knows? Asked twice about the matchup, Miller mostly responded by just noting that it’s Michigan State, a perennial power that is never easy to match up against.

“When you undertake Michigan State, you’re not only playing against a great team but a great program,” Miller said. “Everybody who’s a part of their organization has played in big games before, they’ve played in Final Fours and the postseason, and they have one of the great coaches in our game.

http://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcat ... e5058.html" target="_blank

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:02 am

GAME DAY

SCCats · Post by **SCCats** » Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:12 am

Main Event wrote:GAME DAY

Game Day!!!

Game also runs during Mexico/USA qualifier which makes me a little grrrr

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:41 am

SCCats wrote:
Main Event wrote:GAME DAY
Game Day!!!

Game also runs during Mexico/USA qualifier which makes me a little grrrr

Arizona basketball ranks above anything else that could potentially be on television for me. If we turned back the clock to the 60's and the moon landing could happen for the first time again, I'm still more interested in how well we help and rotate on penetration.

SCCats · Post by **SCCats** » Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:13 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
SCCats wrote:
Main Event wrote:GAME DAY
Game Day!!!

Game also runs during Mexico/USA qualifier which makes me a little grrrr
Arizona basketball ranks above anything else that could potentially be on television for me. If we turned back the clock to the 60's and the moon landing could happen for the first time again, I'm still more interested in how well we help and rotate on penetration.

Oh.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:43 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
SCCats wrote:
Main Event wrote:GAME DAY
Game Day!!!

Game also runs during Mexico/USA qualifier which makes me a little grrrr
Arizona basketball ranks above anything else that could potentially be on television for me. If we turned back the clock to the 60's and the moon landing could happen for the first time again, I'm still more interested in how well we help and rotate on penetration.

I would like to rotate on penetration

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:06 pm

put a bird on it

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:14 pm

azcat49 wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
SCCats wrote:
Main Event wrote:GAME DAY
Game Day!!!

Game also runs during Mexico/USA qualifier which makes me a little grrrr
Arizona basketball ranks above anything else that could potentially be on television for me. If we turned back the clock to the 60's and the moon landing could happen for the first time again, I'm still more interested in how well we help and rotate on penetration.

I would like to rotate on penetration

My bad. You don't want to rotate on penetration. You want to rotate to stop penetration. You just don't want to over-rotate and give up the back door.

whatisee · Post by **whatisee** » Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:16 pm

Pretty excited for this game. Would love to see Rawle turn up the heat right off the bat. PJC is the key IMO

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:23 pm

My daughter got 2 free tickets for her and her hubby, they are very excited!

He's in the Navy, so has to wear dress whites or an Arizona or MSU shirt. He is trying to squeeze into on of my daughter's UA shirts.

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