OOC review

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:38 am

I'll say it right up front. Considering what we went through, I feel like this was as successful an OOC performance as we really could expect. Beating Gonzaga would have been a minor miracle given the state of our roster. Butler is really the only game we should have won, but even there, Butler is a really good team, and we took them on without Trier and got hosed by some of the worst reffing I've seen in CBB. Give us Trier or neutral refs and we take that game easily.

Other than Zaga, our biggest post-PJC tests were aTm and UNM, and I felt like we answered the bell in both games with strong performances. The end of aTm wasn't ideal, but on the whole, that had more to do with being tired and losing focus snowballing.

The freshman group of Lauri, Kobi and Rawle has been everything we wanted it to be. All of them were put in a situation where they had to contribute immediately and they did. You can see the talent and see the growth with each of them.

My biggest long term concern is about roster composition. Get Trier and PJC at 100% by tourney time and no other injuries or absences and we should be primed to be very strong in March. That said, don't count your chickens before they hatch. Hopefully Zo and PJC resolve their situations sooner rather than later.

Other areas that need development: I was happy to see Chance's output vs UNM. He needed some positive momentum entering conference play. He should be our first option as a big off the bench, and his continued growth into that role would help. The team D has continued to develop, and making more progress in that area is necessary to reach our goals. We've been up and down shooting the 3. Becoming consistent in that area is another thing to watch.

On the whole, though, I'm plenty happy. We suffered through adversity that would have driven most teams out of the top 25 and emerged 11-2 with our two losses being neutral site games to top 15 teams.

dcZONAfan · Post by **dcZONAfan** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:30 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:I'll say it right up front. Considering what we went through, I feel like this was as successful an OOC performance as we really could expect. Beating Gonzaga would have been a minor miracle given the state of our roster. Butler is really the only game we should have won, but even there, Butler is a really good team, and we took them on without Trier and got hosed by some of the worst reffing I've seen in CBB. Give us Trier or neutral refs and we take that game easily.

Other than Zaga, our biggest post-PJC tests were aTm and UNM, and I felt like we answered the bell in both games with strong performances. The end of aTm wasn't ideal, but on the whole, that had more to do with being tired and losing focus snowballing.

The freshman group of Lauri, Kobi and Rawle has been everything we wanted it to be. All of them were put in a situation where they had to contribute immediately and they did. You can see the talent and see the growth with each of them.

My biggest long term concern is about roster composition. Get Trier and PJC at 100% by tourney time and no other injuries or absences and we should be primed to be very strong in March. That said, don't count your chickens before they hatch. Hopefully Zo and PJC resolve their situations sooner rather than later.

Other areas that need development: I was happy to see Chance's output vs UNM. He needed some positive momentum entering conference play. He should be our first option as a big off the bench, and his continued growth into that role would help. The team D has continued to develop, and making more progress in that area is necessary to reach our goals. We've been up and down shooting the 3. Becoming consistent in that area is another thing to watch.

On the whole, though, I'm plenty happy. We suffered through adversity that would have driven most teams out of the top 25 and emerged 11-2 with our two losses being neutral site games to top 15 teams.

What a sad, delusional take. Even a normal level optimist knows we will be hard-pressed to be on the right side of the bubble come March.

ghostwhitehorse · Post by **ghostwhitehorse** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:42 am

dcZONAfan wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:I'll say it right up front. Considering what we went through, I feel like this was as successful an OOC performance as we really could expect. Beating Gonzaga would have been a minor miracle given the state of our roster. Butler is really the only game we should have won, but even there, Butler is a really good team, and we took them on without Trier and got hosed by some of the worst reffing I've seen in CBB. Give us Trier or neutral refs and we take that game easily.

Other than Zaga, our biggest post-PJC tests were aTm and UNM, and I felt like we answered the bell in both games with strong performances. The end of aTm wasn't ideal, but on the whole, that had more to do with being tired and losing focus snowballing.

The freshman group of Lauri, Kobi and Rawle has been everything we wanted it to be. All of them were put in a situation where they had to contribute immediately and they did. You can see the talent and see the growth with each of them.

My biggest long term concern is about roster composition. Get Trier and PJC at 100% by tourney time and no other injuries or absences and we should be primed to be very strong in March. That said, don't count your chickens before they hatch. Hopefully Zo and PJC resolve their situations sooner rather than later.

Other areas that need development: I was happy to see Chance's output vs UNM. He needed some positive momentum entering conference play. He should be our first option as a big off the bench, and his continued growth into that role would help. The team D has continued to develop, and making more progress in that area is necessary to reach our goals. We've been up and down shooting the 3. Becoming consistent in that area is another thing to watch.

On the whole, though, I'm plenty happy. We suffered through adversity that would have driven most teams out of the top 25 and emerged 11-2 with our two losses being neutral site games to top 15 teams.
What a sad, delusional take. Even a normal level optimist knows we will be hard-pressed to be on the right side of the bubble come March.

UofAlum05 · Post by **UofAlum05** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:53 am

Not sure if that one reply was sarcastic or not but anyway....

If you had told me last summer that Ferguson would bolt overseas, Ray Smith would retire, Trier will be suspended indefinitely, and PJC will get a severe ankle injury...... I would have taken 11-2 enthusiastically and not even given it a second thought.

LBdCactus · Post by **LBdCactus** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:55 am

I sure would have loved the chance for a few more post-PJC games before Gonzaga. Arizona seems to have found more rhythm on O than they had when they faced the Zags.

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:03 am

I think some of your sarcasm meters need calibration.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:11 am

UAEebs86 wrote:I think some of your sarcasm meters need calibration.

I am deeply offended.

I offer pistols at dawn or a fistfight behind Wildcat Liquor at 1st/Roger over the lunch hour.

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:37 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
UAEebs86 wrote:I think some of your sarcasm meters need calibration.
I am deeply offended.

I offer pistols at dawn or a fistfight behind Wildcat Liquor at 1st/Roger over the lunch hour.

Who was that old poster at TOS that wanted to fight so bad?

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:02 am

UAEebs86 wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
UAEebs86 wrote:I think some of your sarcasm meters need calibration.
I am deeply offended.

I offer pistols at dawn or a fistfight behind Wildcat Liquor at 1st/Roger over the lunch hour.

Who was that old poster at TOS that wanted to fight so bad?

KillerVibe!

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:14 am

We lost to the #7 and #13 team in neutral site games with missing core personnel.

We are the #18 team. The game vs the #13 team was winnable, and the #7 team was an early bomb drop that we didn't make it all the way back from, though we did return the game to competitive.

So, yeah...we did exactly what we should have, and maybe stole a couple of games we could easily have lost, and held on in a game we were on the edge of choking away. But, all said, we won all the games we should, maybe one or two we were a coin flip in (Texas A&M, MSU), and lost a close one and a competitive but wire to wire one against top 15 teams.

I think our body of work matches our ranking (18) about as well as 13 games can. And we are still 25+ spots off the bubble and closer to a #1 seed than said bubble, and will start getting personnel back, maybe by our next game. But we all knew we were fine there, outside one ridiculous commenter.

1stNGrant Frys · Post by **1stNGrant Frys** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:19 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Other than Zaga, our biggest post-PJC tests were aTm and UNM, and I felt like we answered the bell in both games with strong performances. The end of aTm wasn't ideal, but on the whole, that had more to do with being tired and losing focus snowballing.

.

GCU would have destroyed UNM. They had some life in them. Other than the aforementioned MichSt, Butler and Gonzaga, in the end it'll be CSU-Bakerfield and GCU that end up being our best OOC opponents.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:31 pm

1stNGrant Frys wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Other than Zaga, our biggest post-PJC tests were aTm and UNM, and I felt like we answered the bell in both games with strong performances. The end of aTm wasn't ideal, but on the whole, that had more to do with being tired and losing focus snowballing.

.
GCU would have destroyed UNM. They had some life in them. Other than the aforementioned MichSt, Butler and Gonzaga, in the end it'll be CSU-Bakerfield and GCU that end up being our best OOC opponents.

gcu is not going to be a better team (and aren't now) than Texas A&M

KaibabKat · Post by **KaibabKat** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:46 pm

As it turns out the highest rated OOC team to visit McKale this season was #102 (KenPom) Cal State Bakersfield. Whoopee doo. Season ticket holders getting screwed, blued and tattooed six ways to Sunday.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:48 pm

annnnd...

Nope. Not going to repeat it on a 10th thread. It is just as simple as telling a team they are playing you in McKale...I should know better.

Not sure how anyone is "screwed" tho...I am pretty certain the purchasers of season tickets know the schedule and can make an informed decision.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:51 pm

KaibabKat wrote:As it turns out the highest rated OOC team to visit McKale this season was #102 (KenPom) Cal State Bakersfield. Whoopee doo. Season ticket holders getting screwed, blued and tattooed six ways to Sunday.

Eh, there is a large, large part of this beyond Arizona's control. It's unfortunate for ticket holders, but there are a few factors that make it difficult.

Playing home games is a cash cow. You can't go Long Beach and just play top 20 teams on the road and forsake that revenue. If you want to play home games, realities intrude.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:52 pm

Great take. With every Comanche dunk last night I was thinking the same, hopefully this gets his confidence going and he can get out of his funk. Those easy dunks are going to be available to him most games if he plays smart and plays hard. Once he started going, he was much more active and engaged, and there was one fast break dunk where he was flying down the court. Im completely happy with this nonconference slate for the same reasons you are. I still have bitterness about the officiating in the Butler game, but at least they are playing good ball. Would have been nice to have that W though.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:56 pm

KaibabKat wrote:As it turns out the highest rated OOC team to visit McKale this season was #102 (KenPom) Cal State Bakersfield. Whoopee doo. Season ticket holders getting screwed, blued and tattooed six ways to Sunday.

deal with it? or write letters to the blue blood athletic directors asking them to change their minds?

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:58 pm

maybe if all the season ticket holders call Coach K and Coach Cal and Coach Izzo, we can get them to promise to play us in a home-and-home.

Everybody now...let's go!!!

TheBlackLodge · Post by **TheBlackLodge** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:59 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:If you want to play home games, realities intrude.

KK and reality don't really see eye-to-eye these days.

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:10 pm

KaibabKat wrote:As it turns out the highest rated OOC team to visit McKale this season was #102 (KenPom) Cal State Bakersfield. Whoopee doo. Season ticket holders getting screwed, blued and tattooed six ways to Sunday.

alright, you can sell me your season tickets at a huge discount then if you're going to have such a hissy fit.

KaibabKat · Post by **KaibabKat** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:24 pm

#3 Virginia plays @Cal
#16 St. Mary's played @Stanford
#17 Butler played @Utah
#20 Xavier played @Colorado
#21 Creighton played @ ASU
#28 Michigan played @ UCLA
#34 SMU played @ USC
#73 Nevada played @Washington
#84 Alabama played @Oregon

It appears that only Pac-12 powerhouse teams Arizona, Oregon State and Washington State find it impossible to get top 100 teams to visit their home courts.

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:34 pm

Ya very impressed with 11-2 considering what has happened to the roster.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:I am deeply offended.
I offer pistols at dawn or a fistfight behind Wildcat Liquor at 1st/Roger over the lunch hour.

Every time I pick up a keg at Wildcat the clerk is packing heat. Lets take it over to the carwash across the street

crap, just saw this on FB:

Wildcat Market & Liquor
1 hr ·
We're closing down next week! But we've kept you and your holiday and new year celebrations in mind!
ALL liquor is buy 2 get one for a penny!!!!!!

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:59 pm

KaibabKat wrote:#3 Virginia plays @Cal
#16 St. Mary's played @Stanford
#17 Butler played @Utah
#20 Xavier played @Colorado
#21 Creighton played @ ASU
#28 Michigan played @ UCLA
#34 SMU played @ USC
#73 Nevada played @Washington
#84 Alabama played @Oregon

It appears that only Pac-12 powerhouse teams Arizona, Oregon State and Washington State find it impossible to get top 100 teams to visit their home courts.

none of these are big time blue blood headline getting OOC games.

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:06 pm

He bitches about nearly everything regarding the Miller era, it's old

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:15 pm

KaibabKat wrote:#3 Virginia plays @Cal
#16 St. Mary's played @Stanford
#17 Butler played @Utah
#20 Xavier played @Colorado
#21 Creighton played @ ASU
#28 Michigan played @ UCLA
#34 SMU played @ USC
#73 Nevada played @Washington
#84 Alabama played @Oregon

It appears that only Pac-12 powerhouse teams Arizona, Oregon State and Washington State find it impossible to get top 100 teams to visit their home courts.

Michigan came here 2 years ago.

Plus, at the point the schedule is made, are you taking Nevada or New Mexico? Just because Nevada has a better ranking this year, that doesn't mean Oregon really pulled a fast one on us.

Look, it was a bad home slate, but the level of butthurt is getting a little excessive.

1stNGrant Frys · Post by **1stNGrant Frys** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:27 pm

ASUHATER! wrote:
1stNGrant Frys wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Other than Zaga, our biggest post-PJC tests were aTm and UNM, and I felt like we answered the bell in both games with strong performances. The end of aTm wasn't ideal, but on the whole, that had more to do with being tired and losing focus snowballing.

.
GCU would have destroyed UNM. They had some life in them. Other than the aforementioned MichSt, Butler and Gonzaga, in the end it'll be CSU-Bakerfield and GCU that end up being our best OOC opponents.
gcu is not going to be a better team (and aren't now) than Texas A&M

oh yeah I forgot about them.

Well was it reasonable to assume Mizzou and UNM would have been at least mid-level when they were scheduled?

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:36 pm

1stNGrant Frys wrote:
ASUHATER! wrote:
1stNGrant Frys wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Other than Zaga, our biggest post-PJC tests were aTm and UNM, and I felt like we answered the bell in both games with strong performances. The end of aTm wasn't ideal, but on the whole, that had more to do with being tired and losing focus snowballing.

.
GCU would have destroyed UNM. They had some life in them. Other than the aforementioned MichSt, Butler and Gonzaga, in the end it'll be CSU-Bakerfield and GCU that end up being our best OOC opponents.
gcu is not going to be a better team (and aren't now) than Texas A&M

oh yeah I forgot about them.

Well was it reasonable to assume Mizzou and UNM would have been at least mid-level when they were scheduled?

When the schedule was made, I think it would be like this:

Tourney teams:

MSU, Butler, Zaga, aTm, UNM.

Possible tourney:

Mizzou.

It's really not that awful to play tourney teams half the time.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:05 pm

we can't only have home and homes with Missouri or New Mexico or Michigan...we have to know when they will be in the top 100, too.

Cherry pick away.

Is it somehow more valiant to play #84 at home than to play #7 at a neutral site? Isn't that bizarre backward world?

How DARE you play Gonzaga in LA and Butler in Vegas and A&M in their home state of Texas? What challenge is that? Play them at HOME!!!!

Seriously...the games we played in were far better challenges and better prep for the NCAA Tournament.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:30 am

Occ was not bad overall but I think there should be one or two bigger neutral site games if the home schedule is going to be this bad. Hopefully the Cats can win it all or get to Glendale so that in 2018 and beyond the Cats get invited to the Champions Classic and CBS Sports events. Meaning Butler is good but Duke or Kentucky or UNC or Virgina would be better.

Gonzaga and U of A need to play every year. One at home one on the road and one neutral rotating between PHX Seattle and California

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:23 am

Main Event wrote:He bitches about nearly everything regarding the Miller era, it's old

If he didn't bitch about something which hasn't already been bitched about ad nauseum, it'd be at least interesting. But instead, it's just boring.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:16 am

So, I had meant this as a thread about how I was enthused with the way we played in OOC despite the most adversity we've faced in modern time. Now that we're talking scheduling, I'll say one other thing about that:

We will always have a hard time scheduling good home OOC games. Generally teams don't want to play too far from home. This is really only an issue for Pac teams. East of the Mississippi, P5 conferences are close enough that you can easily pull a P5 team from another conference without having to sell them on traveling a long way.

The only comparable league we have is the MWC. That's why when SEC teams play ACC teams, we play MWC teams. Getting into the Pac/B12 series used to be a benefit, but thank you Larry Scott, that's over.

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:21 am

I'm reasonably happy with the start given the devastated roster we have. I'm a little worried by our post defense, and I'm a little disappointed that Kobi hasn't flashed more point guard skills, but otherwise we're in good shape to go far when PJC and Trier return or to flame out in the early rounds if they don't.

EastCoastCat · Post by **EastCoastCat** » Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:05 am

We've got to be pleased how part 1 of the season finished (part 2 - conference, part 3 tourney) considering the setbacks this squad faced. We didn't lose to anyone we should have beaten imo and looking at the OCC schedule before the season started with Mich State, Gonzaga and Butler we would probably have said 12-1 at the worst even with all of our guns, no?

While being shorthanded has sucked, it also has given players like Alkins, Simmons and Comanche valuable minutes which will only bode well for us down the road.

If Santa can give us back AT and with a healthy PJC this team will be one to reckon with in March.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:26 am

Rawle has really grown exponentially as a result. Kobi has to a lesser degree, but I don't mean that in a negative way; Rawle was built (no pun intended) for a more immediate impact type of player whereas Kobe is a bit more raw in certain areas. The biggest growth, albeit unnoticed because of his fast start and talent, has been Lauri. The dude is leading the team in minutes played (32.2) and is doing that despite a couple of games with big foul trouble. He has played the 3, 4 and 5 and guarded positions 2-5. Some will rightfully argue that Kadeem is the team leader/heart of the team, but I think in Miller's eyes that guy has been Lauri, he just doesn't formally say it. Lauri has done a TON for this team and even if he was averaging 10 ppg instead of 16, he is still the team MVP.

Will be interesting to see what effect these enhanced roles/minutes will have on the "freshman wall" that always gets talked about, if it is indeed a real thing. To me, the three freshmen have already been through so much adversity and logged so many minutes, it seems like they are a month or two ahead in terms of experience. Hopefully, they will be "April or May experienced" with March skills when March rolls around.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:05 am

rgdeuce wrote:Rawle has really grown exponentially as a result. Kobi has to a lesser degree, but I don't mean that in a negative way; Rawle was built (no pun intended) for a more immediate impact type of player whereas Kobe is a bit more raw in certain areas. The biggest growth, albeit unnoticed because of his fast start and talent, has been Lauri. The dude is leading the team in minutes played (32.2) and is doing that despite a couple of games with big foul trouble. He has played the 3, 4 and 5 and guarded positions 2-5. Some will rightfully argue that Kadeem is the team leader/heart of the team, but I think in Miller's eyes that guy has been Lauri, he just doesn't formally say it. Lauri has done a TON for this team and even if he was averaging 10 ppg instead of 16, he is still the team MVP.

Will be interesting to see what effect these enhanced roles/minutes will have on the "freshman wall" that always gets talked about, if it is indeed a real thing. To me, the three freshmen have already been through so much adversity and logged so many minutes, it seems like they are a month or two ahead in terms of experience. Hopefully, they will be "April or May experienced" with March skills when March rolls around.

Lauri may not be the leader, but he is undoubtedly the focal point of our offense. He was expected to develop alongside Trier, but he has had to adjust to other teams keying on him since day 1 and has still been effective. We get Trier back and allow him more airspace than he's had, and...

Kobi is a high ceiling player. He and Rawle have virtually identical ppg, but it seems like Rawle is achieving more because he shook off a tougher start and because he doesn't have the long term potential Kobi does. I think people view Kobi differently just because he has so many tools. His 12.2 ppg seems less than Rawle's 12.4 because you can see Kobi as a potential NBA starter.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 3:20 pm

EVCat wrote:we can't only have home and homes with Missouri or New Mexico or Michigan...we have to know when they will be in the top 100, too.

Cherry pick away.

Is it somehow more valiant to play #84 at home than to play #7 at a neutral site? Isn't that bizarre backward world?

How DARE you play Gonzaga in LA and Butler in Vegas and A&M in their home state of Texas? What challenge is that? Play them at HOME!!!!

Seriously...the games we played in were far better challenges and better prep for the NCAA Tournament.

This misses the point of what it's like to be a season-tix holder these days. It's not just at Arizona. It's this epidemic of made-for-TV neutral site games where the top row is curtained off and cameras are kept low to conceal the fact that few people showed up. Whereas, it would be a raucous sellout at either home arena.

This used to be confined to holiday tournaments.

Don't know how it started, but it used to be the exception, not the rule. Want better tourney prep? Play them all in some other city! Hey, do it with football, too, just in case you go to a bowl game!

My season-tix friends aren't too happy with it. Steady diet of Bakersfield, NAU, Cal Poly Where-the-Fuck? Then for the best games, team flies somewhere else where most people don't give a shit.

It's not Arizona's fault. It's college basketball's fault. TV is king.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 3:23 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:I'll say it right up front. Considering what we went through, I feel like this was as successful an OOC performance as we really could expect. Beating Gonzaga would have been a minor miracle given the state of our roster. Butler is really the only game we should have won, but even there, Butler is a really good team, and we took them on without Trier and got hosed by some of the worst reffing I've seen in CBB. Give us Trier or neutral refs and we take that game easily.

Other than Zaga, our biggest post-PJC tests were aTm and UNM, and I felt like we answered the bell in both games with strong performances. The end of aTm wasn't ideal, but on the whole, that had more to do with being tired and losing focus snowballing.

The freshman group of Lauri, Kobi and Rawle has been everything we wanted it to be. All of them were put in a situation where they had to contribute immediately and they did. You can see the talent and see the growth with each of them.

My biggest long term concern is about roster composition. Get Trier and PJC at 100% by tourney time and no other injuries or absences and we should be primed to be very strong in March. That said, don't count your chickens before they hatch. Hopefully Zo and PJC resolve their situations sooner rather than later.

Other areas that need development: I was happy to see Chance's output vs UNM. He needed some positive momentum entering conference play. He should be our first option as a big off the bench, and his continued growth into that role would help. The team D has continued to develop, and making more progress in that area is necessary to reach our goals. We've been up and down shooting the 3. Becoming consistent in that area is another thing to watch.

On the whole, though, I'm plenty happy. We suffered through adversity that would have driven most teams out of the top 25 and emerged 11-2 with our two losses being neutral site games to top 15 teams.

I'm pretty much here, too. Good post.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:14 pm

I can see season ticket holders wanting more OOC games with meat. Of course they do.

But season ticket holders have to also consider whether the program is purposely screwing them, or if this is the new reality. If the product, which is advertised clearly ahead of time, is no longer good enough with the PAC 12 season to purchase, then I can see the argument for declining to renew.

So understanding that the program cannot fix this problem, why complain about the program? That's the part I am referring to...season ticket holders who think they are entitled to big time OOC home games. The tickets were bought knowing the situation. A reasonable assessment shows the team is not really at fault here. So accept it and buy, or reject it and don't buy. But people attacking Miller and the program for not performing miracles in scheduling rings hollow with me. Yeah, back in the day, we had bitchin schedules. But we aren't ducking anyone...not outside of unreasonable demands. And if the ticket holders would rather us put the program in a bad position by agreeing to bad deals to get a single game for them, then, really, too bad.

If the season ticket holders can suggest a solution, or where the AD is doing them wrong, then I think that discussion should be had. Short of that, the team is doing what it has to do...

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:16 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Lauri may not be the leader, but he is undoubtedly the focal point of our offense. He was expected to develop alongside Trier, but he has had to adjust to other teams keying on him since day 1 and has still been effective. We get Trier back and allow him more airspace than he's had, and...

Kobi is a high ceiling player. He and Rawle have virtually identical ppg, but it seems like Rawle is achieving more because he shook off a tougher start and because he doesn't have the long term potential Kobi does. I think people view Kobi differently just because he has so many tools. His 12.2 ppg seems less than Rawle's 12.4 because you can see Kobi as a potential NBA starter.

You make good points. I just see Lauri's defense, performance and flexibility, as being almost as big of a reason for our success than his offense. Kadeem is the glue guy on defense, and I see Lauri as that extra glob of glue that has kept the pieces somewhat together when they would have otherwise fallen apart. Being thin on the wing, if we didnt have Lauri to guard a 3, yikes.

As to the Kobi vs Rawle thing, I partially agree, but it could just be a case of misinterpretation and we may be on the same page. Beginning of the season, I felt Kobi was our 2nd best defender (I now have Lauri ahead of him for a couple reasons) and Rawle was a liability. Kobi has continued to improve on defense, but he was already fairly solid before so there isn't as drastic of a growth. It's a situation of going from a B- to a B, verses an F to a C. Offensively, I think they were and still are pretty even, just different styles. Both are streaky and inconsistent. The difference to me is, Rawle was almost completely lost offensively early on and needed to adjust to the higher level of competition and find his niche in the college game. Kobi on the other hand, is such a freak athlete and so quick, there was not even close to that adjustment, he could just be Kobi and as long as the shots were falling that night he was gonna get his. That is where I am seeing the larger growth.

Two reasons why I think it seems like Rawle is doing more: 1) Their demeanor and presence. Rawle looks like a beast senior and Kobi looks like a freshman. Kobi seems like Kobe after finishing and just gives that "you cant stop me" look, whereas Rawle roars like a lion and pumps his chest. 2) Kobi gets a lot of his at the free throw line and/or in the open court. Rawle seems to do more in the half court.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:30 am

EVCat wrote:I can see season ticket holders wanting more OOC games with meat. Of course they do.

But season ticket holders have to also consider whether the program is purposely screwing them, or if this is the new reality. If the product, which is advertised clearly ahead of time, is no longer good enough with the PAC 12 season to purchase, then I can see the argument for declining to renew.

So understanding that the program cannot fix this problem, why complain about the program? That's the part I am referring to...season ticket holders who think they are entitled to big time OOC home games. The tickets were bought knowing the situation. A reasonable assessment shows the team is not really at fault here. So accept it and buy, or reject it and don't buy. But people attacking Miller and the program for not performing miracles in scheduling rings hollow with me. Yeah, back in the day, we had bitchin schedules. But we aren't ducking anyone...not outside of unreasonable demands. And if the ticket holders would rather us put the program in a bad position by agreeing to bad deals to get a single game for them, then, really, too bad.

If the season ticket holders can suggest a solution, or where the AD is doing them wrong, then I think that discussion should be had. Short of that, the team is doing what it has to do...

It will take complaining ... a lot of complaining. Resignation that this is "the new reality" won't do it. Calling the complaining "whining" won't do it.

If people find it unacceptable, pressure will build to stop being so strategic about playing decent teams. The AD has already felt the heat in football and basketball to toughen the schedule. Pressure from fans matters. Calling pressure "whining" is what they want.

It's funny, because the OOC was the best part of the sked when Lute was the coach, because the conference so often sucked. Now it's the best part of the home sked.

Don't take it lying down, fans! You won't get it back to the old days, but you can press for improvement. And that includes mocking the home schedule right here on the message board. Stop being so "understanding.'

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:33 am

rgdeuce wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote: Lauri may not be the leader, but he is undoubtedly the focal point of our offense. He was expected to develop alongside Trier, but he has had to adjust to other teams keying on him since day 1 and has still been effective. We get Trier back and allow him more airspace than he's had, and...

Kobi is a high ceiling player. He and Rawle have virtually identical ppg, but it seems like Rawle is achieving more because he shook off a tougher start and because he doesn't have the long term potential Kobi does. I think people view Kobi differently just because he has so many tools. His 12.2 ppg seems less than Rawle's 12.4 because you can see Kobi as a potential NBA starter.
You make good points. I just see Lauri's defense, performance and flexibility, as being almost as big of a reason for our success than his offense. Kadeem is the glue guy on defense, and I see Lauri as that extra glob of glue that has kept the pieces somewhat together when they would have otherwise fallen apart. Being thin on the wing, if we didnt have Lauri to guard a 3, yikes.

As to the Kobi vs Rawle thing, I partially agree, but it could just be a case of misinterpretation and we may be on the same page. Beginning of the season, I felt Kobi was our 2nd best defender (I now have Lauri ahead of him for a couple reasons) and Rawle was a liability. Kobi has continued to improve on defense, but he was already fairly solid before so there isn't as drastic of a growth. It's a situation of going from a B- to a B, verses an F to a C. Offensively, I think they were and still are pretty even, just different styles. Both are streaky and inconsistent. The difference to me is, Rawle was almost completely lost offensively early on and needed to adjust to the higher level of competition and find his niche in the college game. Kobi on the other hand, is such a freak athlete and so quick, there was not even close to that adjustment, he could just be Kobi and as long as the shots were falling that night he was gonna get his. That is where I am seeing the larger growth.

Two reasons why I think it seems like Rawle is doing more: 1) Their demeanor and presence. Rawle looks like a beast senior and Kobi looks like a freshman. Kobi seems like Kobe after finishing and just gives that "you cant stop me" look, whereas Rawle roars like a lion and pumps his chest. 2) Kobi gets a lot of his at the free throw line and/or in the open court. Rawle seems to do more in the half court.

I don't disagree on Lauri's D. I don't necessarily see him as a standout, but him being ready from day 1 has been a huge asset. We've plugged him in immediately and let him go without worrying. With the way the perimeter has been in flux, that is a big deal.

In Rawle v. Kobi, I think Rawle has eliminated some of the inconsistency that persists with Kobi. I really like what both of them are doing right now. I can agree that Kobi is better in the open floor because he is such a high level athlete. Rawle seems to be sharpening his game at a faster rate. I completely agree that Rawle looked like he had not made the level adjustment at the beginning of the year, but that's happening fast.

Login • Register