2017-2018 Arizona Basketball

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:20 pm

Sporting News has us at #1 if Trier, Rawle, and Kobi return.

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:42 pm

PAC 12 is going to be weak again. UCLA won't have Lonzo and will take a step back, Oregon will likely lose all their upperclassmen and Dorsey. USC the other decent team. Weak OOC schedule.

Honestly, assuming Rawle and Trier are back, this team should rack up 30 wins and win a weak conference.

Of course if everyone who can return on Oregon does, they win.

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:20 pm

NYCat wrote:PAC 12 is going to be weak again. UCLA won't have Lonzo and will take a step back, Oregon will likely lose all their upperclassmen and Dorsey. USC the other decent team. Weak OOC schedule.

Honestly, assuming Rawle and Trier are back, this team should rack up 30 wins and win a weak conference.

Of course if everyone who can return on Oregon does, they win.

If USC gets everyone back along with their incoming recruiting class, they're going to be very, very good. Stanford will be better. UCLA will be strong...or at least should be. They have a lot of talent on the roster. Arizona & Oregon could lose a lot in the next few weeks. Or not. Cal & UW will be atrocious. Wazzu will be Wazzu. ASU will be ASU. Utah & Colorado = meh. So yeah, the Pac will take a step back.

RaisingArizona · Post by **RaisingArizona** » Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:08 pm

I think the top three take a step back, the bottom is still embarrassingly bad but the middle should be better. USC should be a top 25 team. Stanford and Oregon State both have a chance to be pretty good. Colorado and Utah both have really solid coaches which always gives them a chance. Bottom four should be awful though. ASU might be able to improve a bit simply by having D1 length.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:16 am

Utah really struggling to keep players.

http://www.sltrib.com/home/5125777-155/ ... ojo-zamora" target="_blank

Two more gone.

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:03 pm

#11

Coach Sean Miller has churned out consistent winners since he arrived in Tucson, and 2017-18 should be no different. Arizona had only one senior (Kadeem Allen) on this season's young roster. It will lose brilliant freshman center Lauri Markkanen, and odds are that at least one or two of its talented wing trio (Allonzo Trier, Kobi Simmons and Rawle Alkins, with Alkins seeming the most likely to come back). Still, Miller's recruiting efforts have another star big on the way: No. 1 center (and No. 2 overall, per the ESPN 100) prospect DeAndre Ayton. The Wildcats have a lot of personnel questions to figure out in the coming weeks, but "Miller plus talent" is always a handy equation.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... gs-2017-18" target="_blank

RaisingArizona · Post by **RaisingArizona** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:14 pm

It's stupid early to be debating the article but if declarations and commitments go down in the way I expect Villanova, UNC, Florida and Kentucky are a bit too high and Duke, Arizona and Michigan State are too low. If Bamba were to go to Kentucky I'd remove them from the first category and may consider dropping Duke from the latter.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:27 pm

If 2/3 of Simmons, Trier and Alkins stay and we got Bowen then we'd be top 5 preseason, if not top 3.

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:55 pm

ASUHATER! wrote:If 2/3 of Simmons, Trier and Alkins stay and we got Bowen then we'd be top 5 preseason, if not top 3.

If 2/3 come back that eliminates Bowen.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:14 pm

I don't see why. Even if 2 come back we still have what, 2 scholarships to give?

RaisingArizona · Post by **RaisingArizona** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:17 pm

Worst case: top 8 of PJC, Barcello, Randolph, Lee, Smith, Pinder, Comanche, Ristic = top 25
Realistic worst case top 8: PJC, Alkins, Randolph, Smith, Lee, Comanche, Ristic, Ayton = top 10
Realist best case top 8: PJC: PJC, Alkins, Bowen, Simmons, Randolph, Comanche, Ristic, Ayton = top 5
Absolute best case top 8: Duval, Trier, Alkins, Bowen, Simmons, Comanche, Ristic, Ayton = clear number 1

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:22 pm

ASUHATER! wrote:I don't see why. Even if 2 come back we still have what, 2 scholarships to give?

Apparently Bowen will only come here if 2 of the 3 leaves, mostly Trier though.

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:22 pm

I don't get these NBA draft evaluations. Stanley Johnson & Dillon Brooks are practically identical players. Their stat lines from their freshman seasons were identical. Brooks measures an inch taller. Yet Johnson was hyped during his season and left early for the draft. Brooks blossomed into the Pac 12 player of the year. Johnson is exactly the type of player Arizona needed this season.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:26 pm

ASUHATER! wrote:I don't see why. Even if 2 come back we still have what, 2 scholarships to give?

Scholarships wouldn't be the issue. If Trier and Rawle both come back Bowen is very likely to head elsewhere. Simmons is already gone.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:28 pm

zonagrad wrote:I don't get these NBA draft evaluations. Stanley Johnson & Dillon Brooks are practically identical players. Their stat lines from their freshman seasons were identical. Brooks measures an inch taller. Yet Johnson was hyped during his season and left early for the draft. Brooks blossomed into the Pac 12 player of the year. Johnson is exactly the type of player Arizona needed this season.

Brooks issue is he's a T-Rex, his wingspan is less than his height, he's 6'6 with a 6'4 wingspan. Stanley was 6'6 with a 6'11 wingspan. That's very important for overall ceiling, which is the difference between a lottery pick and a 2nd rounder.

Irish27 · Post by **Irish27** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:34 pm

http://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/19 ... tournament" target="_blank

RaisingArizona · Post by **RaisingArizona** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:38 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:
zonagrad wrote:I don't get these NBA draft evaluations. Stanley Johnson & Dillon Brooks are practically identical players. Their stat lines from their freshman seasons were identical. Brooks measures an inch taller. Yet Johnson was hyped during his season and left early for the draft. Brooks blossomed into the Pac 12 player of the year. Johnson is exactly the type of player Arizona needed this season.
Brooks issue is he's a T-Rex, his wingspan is less than his height, he's 6'6 with a 6'4 wingspan. Stanley was 6'6 with a 6'11 wingspan. That's very important for overall ceiling, which is the difference between a lottery pick and a 2nd rounder.

Yeah, plus have you ever seen Stanley Johnson? If you see that guy in person and your told he's amazing at just about any sport you'd believe it. Dillon Brooks just looks like a dude. I realize that sounds absurd but it does matter. BUT Dillon Brooks' basketball mind (minus the dumb fouls) > than Stanley Johnsons's. Not sure what that means. But Stanley Johnson was always a robotic superstar. The ineffable was always lacking him and the innefible cannot be taught.

Look at Aaron Gordon. He's going to be a big star b/c he's a creative individual. Obviously he's a very good player because he's freak athlete, but his upside is immense b/c he's creative enough to become a playmaker. I never saw that with Stanley. Still think he can become a rotational player but he doesn't have it like Aaron Gordon has "it."

az91 · Post by **az91** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:38 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:
ASUHATER! wrote:I don't see why. Even if 2 come back we still have what, 2 scholarships to give?
Scholarships wouldn't be the issue. If Trier and Rawle both come back Bowen is very likely to head elsewhere. Simmons is already gone.

When did Simmons leave?

RaisingArizona · Post by **RaisingArizona** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:40 pm

Irish27 wrote:http://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/19 ... tournament

Unless Mitchell comes back I don't see how Louisville is much better. They will play amazing defense but I still think they're a bit iff naively challenged.

PennZona20 · Post by **PennZona20** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:41 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:
zonagrad wrote:I don't get these NBA draft evaluations. Stanley Johnson & Dillon Brooks are practically identical players. Their stat lines from their freshman seasons were identical. Brooks measures an inch taller. Yet Johnson was hyped during his season and left early for the draft. Brooks blossomed into the Pac 12 player of the year. Johnson is exactly the type of player Arizona needed this season.
Brooks issue is he's a T-Rex, his wingspan is less than his height, he's 6'6 with a 6'4 wingspan. Stanley was 6'6 with a 6'11 wingspan. That's very important for overall ceiling, which is the difference between a lottery pick and a 2nd rounder.

Brooks is at least 6"7 prob closer to 6'8. Not sure about his wingspan but I doubt it's 6'4 at his real height.

He can shoot off the dribble which Stanley can't. I do agree that I wouldn't take Brooks lotto though. He's an early 20s pick in this draft to me.

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:46 pm

6. Arizona: The working assumption here is that Allonzo Trier follows Lauri Markkanen into the draft. The returnees alone aren’t worthy of a top-10 ranking. But thanks to a stellar recruiting class that features DeAndre Ayton, the nation’s top big man, the Wildcats won’t be short on impact players. And if Trier comes back, slot the Wildcats in the top three.

1. ARIZONA WILDCATS
Sophomore guard Allonzo Trier and 6’5” freshman Rawle Alkins should return and join the nation’s top freshman, 6’11” center DeAndre Ayton

1. Arizona (32-5 In 2016-17)

Projected lottery pick Lauri Markkanen is gone to the NBA, and Kobi Simmons might leave, too. But much of Arizona’s prospects depends on the NBA decision of leading scorer Allonzo Trier, a projected second-round pick who likely will consider his pro options without an agent. Rawle Alkins (10.9 points per game) had a strong freshman season and is poised for a big sophomore year if he bypasses the NBA. The return of Dusan Ristic and Chance Comanche alongside point guard Parker Jackson-Cartwright should give coach Sean Miller an established core. Miller hauled in a top-three recruiting class — headlined by 7-footer DeAndre Ayton, the country’s No. 1 prospect, according to 247 Sports — that will keep the Wildcats contending

9. Arizona

Key Newcomers: DeAndre Ayton, Alex Barcello, Brandon Randolph, Ira Lee, Dylan Smith (transfer)

Key Losses: Lauri Markkanen, Kadeem Allen, Allonzo Trier

Projected Starting Five:

PG Parker Jackson-Cartwright
SG Kobi Simmons
SF Rawle Alkins
PF Chance Comanche
C DeAndre Ayton

Projected Bench: Dusan Ristic, Keanu Pinder, Brandon Randolph, Alex Barcello, Ira Lee, Dylan Smith

2. ARIZONA

Key losses: G Kadeem Allen, F Lauri Markkanen, G Kobe Simmons (projected), G Allonzo Trier (projected)
Key returners: G Rawle Alkins (projected), G Parker Jackson-Cartwright, C Dusan Ristic, F Chance Comanche
Notable newcomers: G Dylan Smith, F DeAndre Ayton, G Brandon Randolph, F Ira Lee, G Alex Barcello
Outlook: A few big NBA draft decisions have yet to be made, so it’s difficult to project Arizona, but even if all three of Simmons, Trier and Alkins leave, this has the looks of a top-10 team. Jackson-Cartwright and Ristic are very solid college players, Comanche has a big developmental offseason ahead of him, and the incoming freshman class is one of the nation’s best (it also could still grow). Ayton should start, and likely star, from day one. If Alkins returns, as it seems he should, the Wildcats will be clear favorites in the Pac-12. If Trier does as well, the Wildcats are probably the preseason No. 1.

http://www.cbssports.com/college-basket ... -25-and-1/" target="_blank

2. Arizona Wildcats

Coach: Sean Miller
2016-17 record: 32-5
Notable players definitely gone: Lauri Markkanen, Kadeem Allen
Notable players expected to leave: Kobi Simmons
Notable players expected to return: Allonzo Trier, Rawle Alkins, Dusan Ristic, Chance Comanche, Parker Jackson-Cartwright, Keanu Pinder
Notable newcomers: DeAndre Ayton, Brandon Randolph, Ira Lee, Alex Barcello, Dylan Smith
Why the Wildcats are here: This ranking is based on Allonzo Trier returning, which remains up in the air. But, either way, Arizona will be strong. And wait till you see DeAndre Ayton. He’ll be the next great one-and-done Wildcat.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:32 am

az91 wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:
ASUHATER! wrote:I don't see why. Even if 2 come back we still have what, 2 scholarships to give?
Scholarships wouldn't be the issue. If Trier and Rawle both come back Bowen is very likely to head elsewhere. Simmons is already gone.
When did Simmons leave?

Someone said that they saw on instagram that he was already back home. I don't have that app to check.

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:48 am

Here's his Instagram page.

https://www.instagram.com/kobi_simmons2/" target="_blank

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:26 am

He gone

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:37 am

Would love to have Kobi one more season, but the two guys who took most of his minutes as the season wore on (PJC and RA) are probably both back. Kadeem seems the tougher player to replace. A senior defensive specialist with quick hands. Who fits that description on next year's roster?

As much I loved this year's team, it's hard not to be excited about a player like Ayton coming in. If he's anywhere near Oden, in terms of FG% and blocked shots, we're going to be top 5 good, regardless of what happens with the rest of our '17 class.

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:46 am

Welcome back BeachCat.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:48 am

ChooChooCat wrote:
zonagrad wrote:I don't get these NBA draft evaluations. Stanley Johnson & Dillon Brooks are practically identical players. Their stat lines from their freshman seasons were identical. Brooks measures an inch taller. Yet Johnson was hyped during his season and left early for the draft. Brooks blossomed into the Pac 12 player of the year. Johnson is exactly the type of player Arizona needed this season.
Brooks issue is he's a T-Rex, his wingspan is less than his height, he's 6'6 with a 6'4 wingspan. Stanley was 6'6 with a 6'11 wingspan. That's very important for overall ceiling, which is the difference between a lottery pick and a 2nd rounder.

Also, Stanley had a prototype wing body and played wing is HS, then college. It was easy for NBA teams to slot him in the pros.

Brooks spent a decent amount of time at Oregon being an undersized 4 in a small ball lineup and taking advantage of teams like 15-16 Arizona, who couldn't guard him with Tollefsen and Anderson. In the NBA, every team has a Josh/Justin Jackson, and those guys gave Brooks a tough time in Oregon's last two games.

The NBA is less dogmatic than they used to be about players who don't fit the prototype, but Brooks has to prove he can handle being a wing all the time and make plays against guys who are his size and big time athletes. Stanley was always a wing and easily plugged in to a distinct position. The NBA couldn't care less if Brooks was Pac POY. They care about how he develops into a wing at the next level.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:03 am

Alieberman wrote:Welcome back BeachCat.

Thanks! Not sure anyone even noticed I was gone. Missed you guys.

Is it November yet?

loomer · Post by **loomer** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:15 am

ChooChooCat wrote:
zonagrad wrote:I don't get these NBA draft evaluations. Stanley Johnson & Dillon Brooks are practically identical players. Their stat lines from their freshman seasons were identical. Brooks measures an inch taller. Yet Johnson was hyped during his season and left early for the draft. Brooks blossomed into the Pac 12 player of the year. Johnson is exactly the type of player Arizona needed this season.
Brooks issue is he's a T-Rex, his wingspan is less than his height, he's 6'6 with a 6'4 wingspan. Stanley was 6'6 with a 6'11 wingspan. That's very important for overall ceiling, which is the difference between a lottery pick and a 2nd rounder.

Yup and the fact that he got completely shut down vs UNC validates your point. He'll be seeing guys like Justin Jackson and Theo Pinson every night in the league.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:11 am

Right. Perfect college player to recruit. Excels on this level, but not on the next.

Don't those prognosticators realize that on any given night Parker will be the worst?

legallykenny · Post by **legallykenny** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:22 am

Beachcat97 wrote:Would love to have Kobi one more season, but the two guys who took most of his minutes as the season wore on (PJC and RA) are probably both back. Kadeem seems the tougher player to replace. A senior defensive specialist with quick hands. Who fits that description on next year's roster?

As much I loved this year's team, it's hard not to be excited about a player like Ayton coming in. If he's anywhere near Oden, in terms of FG% and blocked shots, we're going to be top 5 good, regardless of what happens with the rest of our '17 class.

There is no reason that Kobi couldn't be an exceptional defender. But he looks like a character miss.

legallykenny · Post by **legallykenny** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:24 am

gumby wrote:Right. Perfect college player to recruit. Excels on this level, but not on the next.

Don't those prognosticators realize that on any given night Parker will be the worst?

They are looking at his stats and seeing 3pt % and A/T. They haven't actually watched the games to see the way he kills the team when he's on the floor.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:51 am

PennZona20 wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:
zonagrad wrote:I don't get these NBA draft evaluations. Stanley Johnson & Dillon Brooks are practically identical players. Their stat lines from their freshman seasons were identical. Brooks measures an inch taller. Yet Johnson was hyped during his season and left early for the draft. Brooks blossomed into the Pac 12 player of the year. Johnson is exactly the type of player Arizona needed this season.
Brooks issue is he's a T-Rex, his wingspan is less than his height, he's 6'6 with a 6'4 wingspan. Stanley was 6'6 with a 6'11 wingspan. That's very important for overall ceiling, which is the difference between a lottery pick and a 2nd rounder.

Brooks is at least 6"7 prob closer to 6'8. Not sure about his wingspan but I doubt it's 6'4 at his real height.

He can shoot off the dribble which Stanley can't. I do agree that I wouldn't take Brooks lotto though. He's an early 20s pick in this draft to me.

Do you really think I pulled that 6'4 wing span out of thin air? Go ahead and Google it, it's information that is out there and it's why he's a 2nd rounder along with every thing Spaceman Spiff said.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:00 pm

DX has measured wingspan but don't care that much to look it up.

MountainCat · Post by **MountainCat** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:01 pm

Merkin wrote:DX has measured wingspan but don't care that much to look it up.

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/dillon-brooks" target="_blank

Notes: Measured 6'6 (in shoes) 224 lbs, with a 6'4.5 wingspan at the 2014 LeBron James Skills Academy

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:06 pm

legallykenny wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:Would love to have Kobi one more season, but the two guys who took most of his minutes as the season wore on (PJC and RA) are probably both back. Kadeem seems the tougher player to replace. A senior defensive specialist with quick hands. Who fits that description on next year's roster?

As much I loved this year's team, it's hard not to be excited about a player like Ayton coming in. If he's anywhere near Oden, in terms of FG% and blocked shots, we're going to be top 5 good, regardless of what happens with the rest of our '17 class.
There is no reason that Kobi couldn't be an exceptional defender. But he looks like a character miss.

I get that, lk. But I saw his reduced minutes as a result of his shoddy defense. His offensive spurts were nice when they came, but we didn't really need his points as the season progressed. PJC started playing much better offensively, RA became more confident attacking the rim and drawing fouls, and Trier was Trier. So when Kobi started playing less, I just inferred that CSM wasn't impressed with what he brought on defense. I mean, if CSM felt better with PJC guarding taller guys, that tells me something about Kobi. Maybe he just needs more time. I get that he's young.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:09 pm

MountainCat wrote:
Merkin wrote:DX has measured wingspan but don't care that much to look it up.
http://www.nbadraft.net/players/dillon-brooks" target="_blank

Notes: Measured 6'6 (in shoes) 224 lbs, with a 6'4.5 wingspan at the 2014 LeBron James Skills Academy

Btw that shorter wingspan is what makes his jumper much more consistent than Stanley's, that is until he goes up against long NBA wings that'll make it much more difficult to get that shot off. I will concede that it's possible his wingspan got a bit longer in the past 3 years, but it's still not very big for a wing and it's shorter than he is.

legallykenny · Post by **legallykenny** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:39 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:
legallykenny wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:Would love to have Kobi one more season, but the two guys who took most of his minutes as the season wore on (PJC and RA) are probably both back. Kadeem seems the tougher player to replace. A senior defensive specialist with quick hands. Who fits that description on next year's roster?

As much I loved this year's team, it's hard not to be excited about a player like Ayton coming in. If he's anywhere near Oden, in terms of FG% and blocked shots, we're going to be top 5 good, regardless of what happens with the rest of our '17 class.
There is no reason that Kobi couldn't be an exceptional defender. But he looks like a character miss.
I get that, lk. But I saw his reduced minutes as a result of his shoddy defense. His offensive spurts were nice when they came, but we didn't really need his points as the season progressed. PJC started playing much better offensively, RA became more confident attacking the rim and drawing fouls, and Trier was Trier. So when Kobi started playing less, I just inferred that CSM wasn't impressed with what he brought on defense. I mean, if CSM felt better with PJC guarding taller guys, that tells me something about Kobi. Maybe he just needs more time. I get that he's young.

I don't disagree and that's half of what I was getting at by character miss. He didn't put the effort into what would have kept him on the floor.
PJC does what Miller tells him to, even if he sucks at doing it.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 1:36 pm

legallykenny wrote:
I don't disagree and that's half of what I was getting at by character miss. He didn't put the effort into what would have kept him on the floor.
PJC does what Miller tells him to, even if he sucks at doing it.

Kobi seemed to be a good teammate. He didn't sulk (at least that I noticed) when his minutes got cut. He was very engaged with the team, even from the bench.

So if he's a character miss, I'd just chalk it up to immaturity and an overeagerness to go pro.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 1:40 pm

No insider information, but not sure it's a character issue like the other players mentioned.

Could be he just doesn't like school, and wants to play ball all the time.

Some people just don't like the college experience.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:06 pm

Arizona knew what it was getting with Kobi and vice versa. This was always a one year deal.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:28 pm

Back on the thread's OT, I do like that we're going to have a senior PG next season, even one named Parker "Parker Jackson Cartwright" Jackson Cartwright. PJC really turned it on and become more reliable/productive in the 2nd half of the season. Would we have won the Pac tourney without his contributions? PJC will have help in the backcourt: RA, Smith, Randolph, and Barcello. Plus possibly (hopefully!) Trier and Bowen/or Duval. Personally, I'd prefer Trier over Bowen or Duval, but I might be in the minority. Give me a proven junior over a freshman star. I don't think Bowen or Duval is a game-changer the way Ayton is.

PJC
Trier, Bowen, or Randolph
RA
DA
DR

Or...

PJC
RA
CC
DA
DR

With Trier, I'd say we're solidly in the top 5. Without him, top 10. Not sure how Bowen or Duval would impact things. Don't think we're getting Duval. Bowen still seems possible.

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:49 pm

Jackson-Cartwright // Barcello
Trier // Smith, Randolph
Alkins // Randolph, Pinder
Ayton // Lee, Pinder
Ristic // Comanche

Solve 1/3 of the biggest issues this year, which is a rim protector/shot blocker in Ayton. The lead guard is still a problem, and there's only one in the whole roster (Barcello won't be ready). So if PJC gets injured again or can't play vs better talent or late game situations, Arizona is screwed. 3rd problem is the team is still without a SF who is long and versatile and can defend (rhj type) and shut down the oppositions best player, that's probably more important than an elite PG

Another problem is weak weak perimeter defense, Trier and PJC are going to get beat all the time. That's going to be a nightmare.

This team is basically like this year's team, with an extra year, one less ball handler and swap Lauri for Ayton.

Weak schedule, weak PAC 12, team probably wins 30 but I don't see how they make a run without an elite PG - probably a ceiling of F4 because of talent alone.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:56 pm

NYCat wrote:Jackson-Cartwright // Barcello
Trier // Smith, Randolph
Alkins // Randolph, Pinder
Ayton // Lee, Pinder
Ristic // Comanche

Solve 1/3 of the biggest issues this year, which is a rim protector/shot blocker in Ayton. The lead guard is still a problem, and there's only one in the whole roster (Barcello won't be ready). So if PJC gets injured again or can't play vs better talent or late game situations, Arizona is screwed. 3rd problem is the team is still without a SF who is long and versatile and can defend (rhj type) and shut down the oppositions best player, that's probably more important than an elite PG

Another problem is weak weak perimeter defense, Trier and PJC are going to get beat all the time. That's going to be a nightmare.

This team is basically like this year's team, with an extra year, one less ball handler and swap Lauri for Ayton.

Weak schedule, weak PAC 12, team probably wins 30 but I don't see how they make a run without an elite PG or above average PG at minimum - probably a ceiling of F4 because of talent alone.

Is Duval an elite PG? Would his impact be on par with, say, Ball? Fultz? Or is he not quite on that level?

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:58 pm

How many games did the PG spot lose in 2016-2017?

Not Xavier, Not Oregon, Not UCLA, Not Gonzaga

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:01 pm

I don't think Ayton is the rim protector/shot blocker you guys are looking for. I mean he's certainly more equipped than anybody we've had in a long time, but if you're looking for a Jordan Bell type defensively I wouldn't count on it from him.

As far as weak perimeter defense yeah there's no lockdown defender that's for sure and adding Bowen (a legit SF who is long and versatile) isn't going to help on that end either.

I keep seeing these way too early predictions and Arizona is #1 in numerous of them and I just can't see it. I mean we're a top 10 team for sure, but too many questions defensively and as NY pointed out at the lead guard spot.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:02 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:
NYCat wrote:Jackson-Cartwright // Barcello
Trier // Smith, Randolph
Alkins // Randolph, Pinder
Ayton // Lee, Pinder
Ristic // Comanche

Solve 1/3 of the biggest issues this year, which is a rim protector/shot blocker in Ayton. The lead guard is still a problem, and there's only one in the whole roster (Barcello won't be ready). So if PJC gets injured again or can't play vs better talent or late game situations, Arizona is screwed. 3rd problem is the team is still without a SF who is long and versatile and can defend (rhj type) and shut down the oppositions best player, that's probably more important than an elite PG

Another problem is weak weak perimeter defense, Trier and PJC are going to get beat all the time. That's going to be a nightmare.

This team is basically like this year's team, with an extra year, one less ball handler and swap Lauri for Ayton.

Weak schedule, weak PAC 12, team probably wins 30 but I don't see how they make a run without an elite PG or above average PG at minimum - probably a ceiling of F4 because of talent alone.
Is Duval an elite PG? Would his impact be on par with, say, Ball? Fultz? Or is he not quite on that level?

Yes and yes in regards to making Arizona a real national title contender. I still doubt we get him, he sounds Duke bound at this point.

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:09 pm

Ayton will desperately need someone to give him the ball, Lauri needed it too. The fact that Arizona didn't pick and roll with Markkanen was maddening, even with Trier. They could've dominated doing that over and over.

Adebayo got easy looks when Fox got him the ball, or Fox could kick it out to Monk or finish at the rim. That's what could happen, Duval attacks and creates and finishes or gives it to Ayton/Ristic or kicks it out to Trier. Good Lord.

But yeah it's looking like Duval is a Dukie.

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:17 pm

PHXCATS wrote:How many games did the PG spot lose in 2016-2017?

Not Xavier, Not Oregon, Not UCLA, Not Gonzaga

See it wasn't a direct result but was a contributor to the loses.

Who started the BIG games vs ucla, Oregon, and tournament games? It was Allen. Now Allen is a SG who can handle the ball and now he's gone. But he really isn't a lead guard. Also, PJC wasn't on the floor -mainly defensive reasons- Allen was in.

Now, who's going to be the main ball handler and dominate the ball, answer is Trier. And guess what Trier is going to do, he's going to try to ISO ball his way too put up shots. And because he's the one handling the ball he's the one who has to distribute. He's terrible at it, that's not what he does. You can't blame a fish for swimming. Allen isn't much better at it either.

That's how you go the last 11 minutes without Lauri touching the ball.

Point guard play is at it's most importance in tournament play.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:27 pm

PHXCATS wrote:How many games did the PG spot lose in 2016-2017?

Not Xavier, Not Oregon, Not UCLA, Not Gonzaga

Disagree about Xavier.

Our offense was a frickin mess. It was Trier and Chuck. They packed a zone and we fell apart, and Trier shot everyone cold. We desperately needed a PG.

And I would argue our last two tournament losses were due to lack of play at the PG

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