Bear Down Wildcats

I generally like his writing and do not care that he is not a local Tucson "UA homer" (in fact I like that he is not)... but the fact that Lute appears nowhere on this list is a disgrace and destroys any credibility he may have had. I'd argue for Sean Elliott, too - but that might be debatable. (Both would have replaced Hochuli & the female rodeo star... with all due respect to cowgirls).

Trying too hard to be a contrarian, Greg. I am officially off your bandwagon...

http://tucson.com/sports/greghansen/gre ... user-share

I've always thought Hansen was trash, so it hurts to read such garbage, but is slightly pleasing for being bad. I feel bad removing the barrel racer, and Hochuli has had a tremendous officiating career. I'd probably pull Gronk off, it seems a bit early to have him on there.

Dan Hicks influential, please. He would never be on my list. I would have had Lute, Sean and Larry Smith who dominated ASSU

Greg Hansen is such a tool IMHO.....disliked him ever since his feud with Lute and seemed like he frequently took shots at Lute whenever he could. This last article is 'Exhibit #1,017' or so.....smh.

Lute wouldn't go golfing with him like Tomey, or play tennis like Rosborough. Tomey had a free pass from Hansen for quite some time.

Arizona basketball is by far the most prestigious sports institution in Tucson. Lute is the most important part of that institution.

Miller has done a tremendous amount for the program, and he'll eventually (and I dearly hope he stays to see this) be viewed as Lute's peer and maybe even a better coach on the whole. Lute will always hold a unique place, but until we get Nick Saban as a football coach, Miller is the only person close.

This is not meant disrespectfully to people like Candrea, who have had amazing runs in smaller sports. Arizona basketball is what the town is about on the sports level.

A ref and a barrel racer made the list, but no Coach O.... that's reasonable.

prh wrote:I'd probably pull Gronk off, it seems a bit early to have him on there.

Gronkowski is already one of the greatest TEs in NFL history. He owns the Patriots all time touchdown record. First ballot HOF if he retired today.

Grock did jack shit for us in college other bang coeds and fake the severity of his injuries to protect his pay day, nothing wrong with that. But he didn't leave cats football better than he left it, hell I could argue some of the losses at the end of that season were due to his, ahem, extracurriculars.

But STATS!!!! Root root root for the persona! Gronk is AWESOME!!!!! Arrrggggg! Imma gonna go crush me a monster and read a gronk erotic novel!

Agreed - Gronk - while arguably the greatest NFL TE ever, doesn't belong on a Tucson list like this.

And Lute belongs no lower than number 5 & you could argue he belongs at the top. The reach of his legacy spans the entire west coast & even further. Yes, the others are great on the list - all of them. But as far as accomplished sports figures in Tucson, Arizona - a list without Lute??

Laughable, and frankly - sad & offensive.

CalStateTempe wrote:Grock did jack shit for us in college other bang coeds and fake the severity of his injuries to protect his pay day, nothing wrong with that. But he didn't leave cats football better than he left it, hell I could argue some of the losses at the end of that season were due to his, ahem, extracurriculars.

But STATS!!!! Root root root for the persona! Gronk is AWESOME!!!!! Arrrggggg! Imma gonna go crush me a monster and read a gronk erotic novel!

Something like 7 of his first 12 catches his sophomore year were touchdowns. He had impact for 2 years from the day he stepped on the field. In an offense where there was no real tight end.

His first TD was against UNM if I am remembering correctly...a floated ball down the middle, kill shot for the safety. Up high. He came up to blow Gronk up...and Gronk caught the ball, stumbled a couple of times, and got into the endzone. The safety was carted off the field.

We really could have used him his junior year. But the injuries were not "exaggerated". He was not Beanie Wells. He might have been able to play late in the season, but the risk was way too crazy for what he had done.

I am not debating whether he belongs in this particular list. But he was a definite impact here, and if Stoops' personal life hadn't fallen apart, he would have been a building block on what was a team growing in national stature and results. He was a huge grab that showed you could go to Arizona and be a big time player. But all hell broke loose shortly thereafter, and our coach was more worried about protecting assets and social humiliation...maybe someone can, someday, talk to why Akina was here for a cup of coffee and left. It had 100% to do with where Stoops' head was and what he was prioritizing in his personal life over the players. There's a lot more detail there for the taking, but that suffices.

EVCat wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:Grock did jack shit for us in college other bang coeds and fake the severity of his injuries to protect his pay day, nothing wrong with that. But he didn't leave cats football better than he left it, hell I could argue some of the losses at the end of that season were due to his, ahem, extracurriculars.

But STATS!!!! Root root root for the persona! Gronk is AWESOME!!!!! Arrrggggg! Imma gonna go crush me a monster and read a gronk erotic novel!

Something like 7 of his first 12 catches his sophomore year were touchdowns. He had impact for 2 years from the day he stepped on the field. In an offense where there was no real tight end.

His first TD was against UNM if I am remembering correctly...a floated ball down the middle, kill shot for the safety. Up high. He came up to blow Gronk up...and Gronk caught the ball, stumbled a couple of times, and got into the endzone. The safety was carted off the field.

We really could have used him his junior year. But the injuries were not "exaggerated". He was not Beanie Wells. He might have been able to play late in the season, but the risk was way too crazy for what he had done.

I am not debating whether he belongs in this particular list. But he was a definite impact here, and if Stoops' personal life hadn't fallen apart, he would have been a building block on what was a team growing in national stature and results. He was a huge grab that showed you could go to Arizona and be a big time player. But all hell broke loose shortly thereafter, and our coach was more worried about protecting assets and social humiliation...maybe someone can, someday, talk to why Akina was here for a cup of coffee and left. It had 100% to do with where Stoops' head was and what he was prioritizing in his personal life over the players. There's a lot more detail there for the taking, but that suffices.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

What. A. Joke.

I'm not clicking the link, but color me oh so shocked that Hansen would disrespect Lute.

I should say I am a big Gronk fan like the rest of us. If he stays healthy, he will definitely be the greatest TE of all time. I just think it's a little early for some accolades for him, especially considering potential longevity.

prh wrote:I should say I am a big Gronk fan like the rest of us. If he stays healthy, he will definitely be the greatest TE of all time. I just think it's a little early for some accolades for him, especially considering potential longevity.

He is undoubtedly a special talent and likely HOFer, but definitely the greatest TE of All Time? Maybe for someone born after 1985.

Kellen Winslow completely redefined the position, as a guy at 6'5" 260 lb that had enough speed to be split wide and play WR on occasion - effectively. Arguments can be made for others, too.

This reeks of the "If I cannot find it on YouTube it never happened and does not really matter" generation. Or blantant UA Homerism. Probably both.

Not that it is relevant to the argument at hand, but Winslow was not a dumb jock Neanderthal meathead, either.

Harvey Specter wrote:

prh wrote:I should say I am a big Gronk fan like the rest of us. If he stays healthy, he will definitely be the greatest TE of all time. I just think it's a little early for some accolades for him, especially considering potential longevity.

He is undoubtedly a special talent and likely HOFer, but definitely the greatest TE of All Time? Maybe for someone born after 1985.

Kellen Winslow completely redefined the position, as a guy at 6'5" 260 lb that had enough speed to be split wide and play WR on occasion - effectively. Arguments can be made for others, too.

This reeks of the "If I cannot find it on YouTube it never happened and does not really matter" generation. Or blantant UA Homerism. Probably both.



Not that it is relevant to the argument at hand, but Winslow was not a dumb jock Neanderthal meathead, either.

Totally agree, but my football history goes back a little further than most (if not all, here). Winslow was great. The names Mackey and Gonzalez come to mind as well. Gronk has a ways to go, except in one category. He is still Boston's favorite meathead.

I imagine many of us remember Gonzales when he played round ball for Cal. Pretty solid player although he did pick the right sport.

While all of y'all's homer-outrage is commendable, didn't you realize that all these people accomplished something in professional sports? While the list didn't mention that as one of its criteria, it pretty obviously is so. Kerr's writeup for example specifically mentions his post-UA career.

So if you apply that lens to the list, is it still a bad list?

Sean Elliott is an NBA Champion, two-time All Star, Wooden Award winner and local kid from the south side.

Lute put Tucson on the map and McKale in the college basketball lexicon. Period. Oh, and '97.

Sour grapes Greg.

Puerco wrote:While all of y'all's homer-outrage is commendable, didn't you realize that all these people accomplished something in professional sports? While the list didn't mention that as one of its criteria, it pretty obviously is so. Kerr's writeup for example specifically mentions his post-UA career.

So if you apply that lens to the list, is it still a bad list?

An NFL referee is considered a professional athlete? We can agree to disagree.

If you can point out where he specifically highlighted that professional sports achievement was the critical criteria for inclusion on the list, or maybe you can read Greg's mind. #BirdsOfAFeather

The article headline said "accomplished sports figures," leaving a lot of leeway for person selection and for success criteria.

Keep grindin' that axe Hansen.

There would be no Steve Kerr without Lute Olson

YoDeFoe wrote:

prh wrote:I'd probably pull Gronk off, it seems a bit early to have him on there.

Gronkowski is already one of the greatest TEs in NFL history. He owns the Patriots all time touchdown record. First ballot HOF if he retired today.

Gronk is the greatest tight end in NFL history, injuries or not. I think the separation between he and Tony Gonzalez is enough that he overcomes Gonzalez's accumulated (and still impressive) statistics. In an "injuries happen" game, where great careers can be cut short and many consider Jim Brown to be the greatest RB despite his short career, I have Gronk at #1. Lute is obviously a blatant omission. A few others who somehow didn't make it over a ref and a rodeo clown.

-Kerri Strug stuck the landing on her vault with a busted ankle and sealed a team gold medal, which is honestly one of the biggest and famous gold medals America has won in modern times. She also has two bronze and two silver from other Olympic games and world championships, has been on a freakin Wheaties box and has had a very successful professional work career in and around Washington since.
-Ian Kinsler has been one of the best 2nd basemen in MLB over the last 12 years (his JAWS score ranks him at 18th all time). Four all star games, a gold glove, two world series appearances, 223 home runs puts him at 13th all time among 2nd basemen and he will probably finish in the top 6 when all is said and done.

rgdeuce wrote:

YoDeFoe wrote:

prh wrote:I'd probably pull Gronk off, it seems a bit early to have him on there.

Gronkowski is already one of the greatest TEs in NFL history. He owns the Patriots all time touchdown record. First ballot HOF if he retired today.

Gronk is the greatest tight end in NFL history, injuries or not. I think the separation between he and Tony Gonzalez is enough that he overcomes Gonzalez's accumulated (and still impressive) statistics. In an "injuries happen" game, where great careers can be cut short and many consider Jim Brown to be the greatest RB despite his short career, I have Gronk at #1. Lute is obviously a blatant omission. A few others who somehow didn't make it over a ref and a rodeo clown.

-Kerri Strug stuck the landing on her vault with a busted ankle and sealed a team gold medal, which is honestly one of the biggest and famous gold medals America has won in modern times. She also has two bronze and two silver from other Olympic games and world championships, has been on a freakin Wheaties box and has had a very successful professional work career in and around Washington since.
-Ian Kinsler has been one of the best 2nd basemen in MLB over the last 12 years (his JAWS score ranks him at 18th all time). Four all star games, a gold glove, two world series appearances, 223 home runs puts him at 13th all time among 2nd basemen and he will probably finish in the top 6 when all is said and done.

B-but don't you know all about that Swedish LPGA golfer who retired a decade ago?

I hate his "ranking" about as much as his poor choices in who to include. Just so random.

I agree with the premise of the "how is Lute missing" argument, and Kerri Strug is a great grab, RGDeuce.

But let's not screw with the legacy of Annika Sorenstam. She was the Tiger of the LPGA. Without as much personal drama.

EVCat wrote:I agree with the premise of the "how is Lute missing" argument, and Kerri Strug is a great grab, RGDeuce.

But let's not screw with the legacy of Annika Sorenstam. She was the Tiger of the LPGA. Without as much personal drama.

Agree completely... she is without a doubt the greatest athlete (of their chosen sport), and arguably the most dominant player (during her era) in her sport's history - and to attempt to diminish her in any way is inane.

Harvey Specter wrote:

Puerco wrote:While all of y'all's homer-outrage is commendable, didn't you realize that all these people accomplished something in professional sports? While the list didn't mention that as one of its criteria, it pretty obviously is so. Kerr's writeup for example specifically mentions his post-UA career.

So if you apply that lens to the list, is it still a bad list?

An NFL referee is considered a professional athlete? We can agree to disagree.

If you can point out where he specifically highlighted that professional sports achievement was the critical criteria for inclusion on the list, or maybe you can read Greg's mind. #BirdsOfAFeather

Pfft. That's pretty pitiful ad hominem, Harv, but expected. Note that Hansen's article refers to sports 'figures' not specifically athletes, so there's no need to disagree. Lute wasn't all that accomplished an athlete either, was he?

I was asking a question about whether the list was reasonable if you limited it to professional sports accomplishments. Obviously, if it includes UA accomplishments then it's an absurd list. However, it just could have been a poorly written but reasonable list which failed to specify what it was really about. The former would be idiotic while the latter would be merely sloppy.

Harvey Specter wrote:

EVCat wrote:I agree with the premise of the "how is Lute missing" argument, and Kerri Strug is a great grab, RGDeuce.

But let's not screw with the legacy of Annika Sorenstam. She was the Tiger of the LPGA. Without as much personal drama.

Agree completely... she is without a doubt the greatest athlete (of their chosen sport), and arguably the most dominant player (during her era) in her sport's history - and to attempt to diminish her in any way is inane.

EVCat wrote:I agree with the premise of the "how is Lute missing" argument, and Kerri Strug is a great grab, RGDeuce.

But let's not screw with the legacy of Annika Sorenstam. She was the Tiger of the LPGA. Without as much personal drama.

Well, I'm not a golf guy, so she may as well be the best Women's curler of her era for all I care. There's a rodeo guy in there too, do I need to bask in his greatness too? Barely watched any golf, even when Tiger was at his peak, so a 90's and 2000's LPGA legend isn't going to move the needle for me much.

Thanks for posting that as ol' Kimmy blocked this Miller fanboy.

I am all for bagging on Hansen but what is the point of that without posting a link to the article or naming the player?

splitsecond wrote:I am all for bagging on Hansen but what is the point of that without posting a link to the article or naming the player?

The player was David Pak, though finding an online copy of the article would be pretty difficult I'd imagine. In my googling I found this page: https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/222583417/" target="_blank

you can read most of the article there, but the formatting is crap.

Pak was a guy who actually served 8 years in prison for his crime. He had already paid for his crime and was given a chance to play basketball for USU.

IF that article I found is the one the twitter person is bitching about, then that twitter person remembers it wrong. Also, that twitter person remembers the details of the crime wrong, although that doesn't really matter, as the rape is the horribly true part regardless of where it happened.

Anyhow, the Pak guy paid for his crime, then got a chance to play basketball under a guy who fostered 50+ kids. Twitter people gonna rage I guess though?

PieceOfMeat wrote:

splitsecond wrote:I am all for bagging on Hansen but what is the point of that without posting a link to the article or naming the player?

The player was David Pak, though finding an online copy of the article would be pretty difficult I'd imagine. In my googling I found this page: https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/222583417/" target="_blank

you can read most of the article there, but the formatting is crap.

Pak was a guy who actually served 8 years in prison for his crime. He had already paid for his crime and was given a chance to play basketball for USU.

IF that article I found is the one the twitter person is bitching about, then that twitter person remembers it wrong. Also, that twitter person remembers the details of the crime wrong, although that doesn't really matter, as the rape is the horribly true part regardless of where it happened.

Anyhow, the Pak guy paid for his crime, then got a chance to play basketball under a guy who fostered 50+ kids. Twitter people gonna rage I guess though?

Thanks for that! I honestly had no idea what the reference was in regards to, so that's the information i was looking for. After checking out her timeline I have absolutely zero interest in anything she has to say. Pure rageaholic.

EDIT: Pak was SIXTEEN when he committed the crime. This is not something remotely legit to bag Hansen on. Let's move on to his real crimes against humanity, they are more fun.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/600 ... hance.html" target="_blank

Alieberman wrote:There would be no Steve Kerr without Lute Olson

and Bobbi!!!

splitsecond wrote:

PieceOfMeat wrote:

splitsecond wrote:I am all for bagging on Hansen but what is the point of that without posting a link to the article or naming the player?

The player was David Pak, though finding an online copy of the article would be pretty difficult I'd imagine. In my googling I found this page: https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/222583417/" target="_blank

you can read most of the article there, but the formatting is crap.

Pak was a guy who actually served 8 years in prison for his crime. He had already paid for his crime and was given a chance to play basketball for USU.

IF that article I found is the one the twitter person is bitching about, then that twitter person remembers it wrong. Also, that twitter person remembers the details of the crime wrong, although that doesn't really matter, as the rape is the horribly true part regardless of where it happened.

Anyhow, the Pak guy paid for his crime, then got a chance to play basketball under a guy who fostered 50+ kids. Twitter people gonna rage I guess though?

Thanks for that! I honestly had no idea what the reference was in regards to, so that's the information i was looking for. After checking out her timeline I have absolutely zero interest in anything she has to say. Pure rageaholic.

EDIT: Pak was SIXTEEN when he committed the crime. This is not something remotely legit to bag Hansen on. Let's move on to his real crimes against humanity, they are more fun.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/600 ... hance.html" target="_blank

If the story about raping a woman at knifepoint in an alley was true... that's not exactly something to poke fun at - regardless of his age. And 16 is not 12... in many states it is the age of consent.

But hey... at least you are consistent.

Harvey Specter wrote:

splitsecond wrote:

PieceOfMeat wrote:

splitsecond wrote:I am all for bagging on Hansen but what is the point of that without posting a link to the article or naming the player?

The player was David Pak, though finding an online copy of the article would be pretty difficult I'd imagine. In my googling I found this page: https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/222583417/" target="_blank

you can read most of the article there, but the formatting is crap.

Pak was a guy who actually served 8 years in prison for his crime. He had already paid for his crime and was given a chance to play basketball for USU.

IF that article I found is the one the twitter person is bitching about, then that twitter person remembers it wrong. Also, that twitter person remembers the details of the crime wrong, although that doesn't really matter, as the rape is the horribly true part regardless of where it happened.

Anyhow, the Pak guy paid for his crime, then got a chance to play basketball under a guy who fostered 50+ kids. Twitter people gonna rage I guess though?

Thanks for that! I honestly had no idea what the reference was in regards to, so that's the information i was looking for. After checking out her timeline I have absolutely zero interest in anything she has to say. Pure rageaholic.

EDIT: Pak was SIXTEEN when he committed the crime. This is not something remotely legit to bag Hansen on. Let's move on to his real crimes against humanity, they are more fun.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/600 ... hance.html" target="_blank

If the story about raping a woman at knifepoint in an alley was true... that's not exactly something to poke fun at - regardless of his age. And 16 is not 12... in many states it is the age of consent.

But hey... at least you are consistent.

Exactly what was I poking fun at? I asked the details, and turns out it was a bullshit attack on Hansen because some people think that one decision at 16 should ruin someones life forever. It's fucking awful what the guy did, but now we are bringing it up again to bag in Hansen (who deserves to be bagged on for many OTHER reasons) when the guy in question has completely turned his life around?

...mod snip... Let's not devolve into an assu type board

So Greg's latest article thinks Arizona could be the next Oregon State

He thinks we'll go 26 years without a tournament appearance?

cats101 wrote:So Greg's latest article thinks Arizona could be the next Oregon State

I posted about it in the other thread. Hansen's articles this year are embarassing. I don't bother reading them because I could use a word generator to knock them out myself.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

cats101 wrote:So Greg's latest article thinks Arizona could be the next Oregon State

I posted about it in the other thread. Hansen's articles this year are embarassing. I don't bother reading them because I could use a word generator to knock them out myself.

Sometimes I read and enjoy them for the nostalgic feel. Being a fairly young Wildcat fan (28), a lot of his article will mention oldies that I never knew.

Not going to lie, I read the entire thing waiting for the connection. I just don't see the correlation or the one about asu that he recently wrote.

I don't think I've ever disagreed or hated a Hansen article as much as this one.

That article was really depressing, but it also strikes me as sour grapes, as if Hansen doesn’t have the same level of access with Miller and that grates him.

Hansen is...

Forget it. I'm even over saying it at this point.

Somehow, we forget just how great Lute, and yes, Miller are, and, by extension, how lucky we fans have been....

LUCKY is the operative word here.

But dominance in CBB is a house of cards, and could collapse in a second.

A great coach leaving, a totally bare cupboard left behind, a NCAA Investigation and/probation.... and

POOF!!!! Its gone in a second.

Not likely, but, yes unfortunately, possible!!!

Fuck Hansen. I am convinced Machina/PHXcat is his sock.

CalStateTempe wrote:That article was really depressing, but it also strikes me as sour grapes, as if Hansen doesn’t have the same level of access with Miller and that grates him.

Considering the b-grade level crap Hansen continues to, ever increasingly, put out about the West's most dominant CBB program the last 30 years, what fool would still, in their right mind, grant access to that?

It's like giving Larry freaking Scott final say on our next hire. The only thing you could count on from it is that it would be riot-worthily wrong.

Even if the FBI investigation passes over Miller, between this constant Mountain West treatment by conference officials and the local media (namely, Hansen and the uniformly nondescript local TV sports crews), Miller's undoubtedly burnt out by the clueless vacuum in local support they are responsible for.

Then the Trier BS tonight on top of that, and you can expect one-sentence answers from Miller to the Star from now on. Lute will be getting a condolence call in the next few days.

We're finding out just how hard it is to win a championship in college basketball, for sure. Unfortunately, in Arizona's case, it's all for reasons it shouldn't have to deal with. Reasons no other program does.

catgrad97 wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:That article was really depressing, but it also strikes me as sour grapes, as if Hansen doesn’t have the same level of access with Miller and that grates him.

Considering the b-grade level crap Hansen continues to, ever increasingly, put out about the West's most dominant CBB program the last 30 years, what fool would still, in their right mind, grant access to that?

It's like giving Larry freaking Scott final say on our next hire. The only thing you could count on from it is that it would be riot-worthily wrong.

Even if the FBI investigation passes over Miller, between this constant Mountain West treatment by conference officials and the local media (namely, Hansen and the uniformly nondescript local TV sports crews), Miller's undoubtedly burnt out by the clueless vacuum in local support they are responsible for.

Then the Trier BS tonight on top of that, and you can expect one-sentence answers from Miller to the Star from now on. Lute will be getting a condolence call in the next few days.

We're finding out just how hard it is to win a championship in college basketball, for sure. Unfortunately, in Arizona's case, it's all for reasons it shouldn't have to deal with. Reasons no other program does.

I still believe there is a silent majority of fans who realize how difficult it is to sustain such a high level of success and appreciate Miller more than he will probably ever know. Unfortunately, it's the uninformed assholes who shout the loudest.

I've said many times on this board, but Miller has been incredible during his stint at Arizona. I'm at the point where I only want a Final Four and title just to silence the idiots out there.

Hansen called it.This is the end of UA basketball.