Bear Down Wildcats

means so much this year -- sticky this thread

Arizona is loaded

97 been drinkin or can someone interpret?

YoDeFoe wrote:97 been drinkin or can someone interpret?

"We have the talent to win it all as long as our pg doesn't fuck it up"

I liked what I saw out of Barcello last night fwiw.

He doesn’t just mean cheese makers, but rather purveyors of all kinds of dairy products.

ChooChooCat wrote:I liked what I saw out of Barcello last night fwiw.

i did too, even moreso than I anticipated, he has a physical quality that suprised me.

but it's a long freshman season -- i don't put a ton of stock in him leading AZ to a title in March this year.

however, as a Jr&Sr he's gonna be a heck of a player.

97cats wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:I liked what I saw out of Barcello last night fwiw.

i did too, even moreso than I anticipated, he has a physical quality that suprised me.

but it's a long freshman season -- i don't put a ton of stock in him leading AZ to a title in March this year.

however, as a Jr&Sr he's gonna be a heck of a player.

Interested to see how many minutes he gets before Sean whittles down the rotation to his core 8-9 players.

I want to see him get a ton of experience right out of the gate to hedge against injuries down the road.

I liked what I saw from Barcello too, although I didn't get to see as much of the game as I would have liked. Was it just me, or did Akot handle the ball quite a bit too? It might have just been the parts I saw.

Chicat wrote:

97cats wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:I liked what I saw out of Barcello last night fwiw.

i did too, even moreso than I anticipated, he has a physical quality that suprised me.

but it's a long freshman season -- i don't put a ton of stock in him leading AZ to a title in March this year.

however, as a Jr&Sr he's gonna be a heck of a player.

Interested to see how many minutes he gets before Sean whittles down the rotation to his core 8-9 players.

I want to see him get a ton of experience right out of the gate to hedge against injuries down the road.

I am pretty sure that Barcello will be part of the rotation for sure - he gives Arizona depth at the PG position, and also can play off the ball as well. He will probably be a 10-12 minute per game guy, which is a good amount for a freshman with a senior PG on the roster.

3 points, 2 assists, and 4 turnovers from a point guard in a scrimmage stinks. That sort of performance from a senior starter does not bode well for a team becoming a juggernaut down the road.

prh wrote:I liked what I saw from Barcello too, although I didn't get to see as much of the game as I would have liked. Was it just me, or did Akot handle the ball quite a bit too? It might have just been the parts I saw.

PRH, Akot looked good. Handles, passes and plays long, confrontive D. Strong PG potential in my view.

KaibabKat wrote:3 points, 2 assists, and 4 turnovers from a point guard in a scrimmage stinks. That sort of performance from a senior starter does not bode well for a team becoming a juggernaut down the road.

no it doesn't

Arizona will have zero problem winning 30 games again this year regardless, but "Juggernaut down the road" and potential national champ status is very much in limbo, imo.

this is going to be a developing topic from where I see it for sure -- it seems more fluid to me than ever before.

the 'all eggs' in that basket might have a short shelf life in Feb/March.

97cats wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:I liked what I saw out of Barcello last night fwiw.

i did too, even moreso than I anticipated, he has a physical quality that suprised me.

but it's a long freshman season -- i don't put a ton of stock in him leading AZ to a title in March this year.

however, as a Jr&Sr he's gonna be a heck of a player.

Given our '18 recruiting situation, if he was a legit option as a soph, that would be awesome too.

This year may be a long string of wondering if PJC is going to be good enough to support all the talent elsewhere.

With the scoring options on the team, pjc should be able to run the floor just fine.
We shouldn't need him to score.

I think PJC’s nickname should be “All Eggs”

97cats wrote:

KaibabKat wrote:3 points, 2 assists, and 4 turnovers from a point guard in a scrimmage stinks. That sort of performance from a senior starter does not bode well for a team becoming a juggernaut down the road.

no it doesn't

Arizona will have zero problem winning 30 games again this year regardless, but "Juggernaut down the road" and potential national champ status is very much in limbo, imo.

this is going to be a developing topic from where I see it for sure -- it seems more fluid to me than ever before.

the 'all eggs' in that basket might have a short shelf life in Feb/March.

So what are you implying?

It seems you are suggesting that come February, with Arizona potentially undefeated, the university may impose severe sanctions which includes no post season. All this with a nod from the NCAA endorsing the sanctions, noting the program is responsible for Book's actions even if it is determined Book acted solely on his own, solely for his personal gain.

That if no further revelations come to fore-- from any/all investigation(s)-- Arizona may proceed as if this episode is behind them.

OR are you saying, Barcello, by then, clearly the more talented PG, subtly finds himself gettting more minutes, especially at crunch time? Making the team lethal from all five spots.

How did you get anything about the investigation from 97cats post?

Hank cut it out already. Since you've been here longer than 5 minutes, you know that 97 has long contended PJC is the biggest weakness on this team, by far, and was also a factor in us flaming out last year. It's not like that's a strange opinion, since it's shared by many here including myself. It's pretty obvious that the limbo is about our PG situation, considering that is literally the point of this thread. If you didn't pick that up, then Alieberman's translation at the top was pretty clear.

I’d be very grateful if someone who knows more about basketball can explain to me why this team needs a true point guard as opposed to Trier at the 1. I know Trier is looking to shoot, and to score. But Miller has run with that before. It’s hard for me to understand leaving 20% of your otherwise elite team on the floor to a mid-major backup.

Longhorned wrote:I’d be very grateful if someone who knows more about basketball can explain to me why this team needs a true point guard as opposed to Trier at the 1. I know Trier is looking to shoot, and to score. But Miller has run with that before. It’s hard for me to understand leaving 20% of your otherwise elite team on the floor to a mid-major backup.

Make no mistake, Trier is the guy with the ball at the top of the key late in games.

However, to your point... Imagine this team with a PG capable of getting everyone easy looks off dribble penetration. Imagine someone getting Trier easy looks on the wing. Imagine a defense being stressed by Trier on the wing and Ayton on the block/elbow, and then a PG capable of beating his man off the bounce and finishing at the rim. As I posted previously, if you want to see an improved PJC (you, as the general person on this board), we better be able to get stops so he can push the ball in transition. Thats where he is at his best.

I think PJC will be fine, but, as others have noted, fine can easily be the difference between a Final Four and another early exit.

prh wrote:I liked what I saw from Barcello too, although I didn't get to see as much of the game as I would have liked. Was it just me, or did Akot handle the ball quite a bit too? It might have just been the parts I saw.

Akot's handle, Barcello's poise and flash, along with Lee's seemingly polished game which includes incredible hops for a 4, not to mention Randolph's shooting, makes me wish we had one less player on the roster.

The issue, IMHO, is more how this group is allowed to play. How the coach substitutes looks more a matter than who plays the point.

The conundrum of who plays where and when will be decisive. Indeed, Akot alone could play any position on the floor. And capably. Trier could play three positions; five others could play two positions.

Therefore substitution, not distribution, is the point.....not necessarily who who plays it.

After Ayton's NBA number is called, five more might be coming behind him.

If this team has perimeter shooting they will win a lot.

The wings have to shoot better than what we have done the last few years
Otherwise teams will pack the late and zone us to defeat

TucsonClip wrote:

Longhorned wrote:I’d be very grateful if someone who knows more about basketball can explain to me why this team needs a true point guard as opposed to Trier at the 1. I know Trier is looking to shoot, and to score. But Miller has run with that before. It’s hard for me to understand leaving 20% of your otherwise elite team on the floor to a mid-major backup.

Make no mistake, Trier is the guy with the ball at the top of the key late in games.

However, to your point... Imagine this team with a PG capable of getting everyone easy looks off dribble penetration. Imagine someone getting Trier easy looks on the wing. Imagine a defense being stressed by Trier on the wing and Ayton on the block/elbow, and then a PG capable of beating his man off the bounce and finishing at the rim. As I posted previously, if you want to see an improved PJC (you, as the general person on this board), we better be able to get stops so he can push the ball in transition. Thats where he is at his best.

I think PJC will be fine, but, as others have noted, fine can easily be the difference between a Final Four and another early exit.

Much appreciated, TC. I can picture all that.

PJC bullied the shit out of Barcello last night. He's a senior who's played in the E8 and Barcello is a teenager stepping onto McKale under the lights for the first time - so not a level playing field. But yeah, bullied. I loved the toughness and fight I saw out of PJC - especially his very active hands.

Barcello did seem to settle in by the second half, and there were a few times where he got dribble penetration and got PJC on his back - if guys learn to read and make that next cut as Barcello draws a help defender... well that's a skill I haven't seen out of PJC in his three years.

Akot... not sure I want him running the point but I do appreciate that he can be a ball handler as a forward. A guy who can get in the middle of the zone or who can make the right pass in the middle of action. Like Walton and Iggy and Solo. Akot also got repeatedly abused by the older Trier last night though while Akot tried to D him at the perimeter... so there's plenty of learning to be done there.

Long way to March. Looking forward to seeing these guys grow.

Just find the open man, convert layups when played to pass on the drive and hit his open Js to keep defenses honest.

That's all I expect from PJC this season. Barcello can fill in the rest, and Trier will step up in crunch time.

I think we'd all prefer a take-charge PG in NCAA tournament crunch time, but nobody's expecting Barcello to be that man this season. We all know Trier will be out there for PJC in close games anyway.

also, Cartwright bullied nothing and nobody last night, nothing.

I'm hopeful like everybody else, but PG and who ultimately plays it is the most fluid topic on this years team...and just wait til Alkins gets back.

Arizona is loaded

97cats wrote:

also, Cartwright bullied nothing and nobody last night, nothing.

I'm hopeful like everybody else, but PG and who ultimately plays it is the most fluid topic on this years team...and just wait til Alkins gets back.

Arizona is loaded

Match ups will decide Parker Jackson Cartwright's minutes. If he's outmanned and the weakest link on the floor, it will force Miller's hand. At least we have depth to create problems for opponents. In crunch time, Trier may be the de facto point guard if PJC can't get the job done.

97cats wrote:

also, Cartwright bullied nothing and nobody last night, nothing.

I'm hopeful like everybody else, but PG and who ultimately plays it is the most fluid topic on this years team...and just wait til Alkins gets back.

Arizona is loaded

Miller mentioned in his on court post game talk the disparity between PJC and Barcello and referenced experience and nerves as factors. PJC ripped Barcello multiple times. First half more than the second.

Hank of sb wrote:

97cats wrote:

KaibabKat wrote:3 points, 2 assists, and 4 turnovers from a point guard in a scrimmage stinks. That sort of performance from a senior starter does not bode well for a team becoming a juggernaut down the road.

no it doesn't

Arizona will have zero problem winning 30 games again this year regardless, but "Juggernaut down the road" and potential national champ status is very much in limbo, imo.

this is going to be a developing topic from where I see it for sure -- it seems more fluid to me than ever before.

the 'all eggs' in that basket might have a short shelf life in Feb/March.

So what are you implying?

It seems you are suggesting that come February, with Arizona potentially undefeated, the university may impose severe sanctions which includes no post season. All this with a nod from the NCAA endorsing the sanctions, noting the program is responsible for Book's actions even if it is determined Book acted solely on his own, solely for his personal gain.

That if no further revelations come to fore-- from any/all investigation(s)-- Arizona may proceed as if this episode is behind them.

OR are you saying, Barcello, by then, clearly the more talented PG, subtly finds himself gettting more minutes, especially at crunch time? Making the team lethal from all five spots.

This post is a treasure.

YoDeFoe wrote: Miller mentioned in his on court post game talk the disparity between PJC and Barcello and referenced experience and nerves as factors. PJC ripped Barcello multiple times. First half more than the second.

im not sure this meant what you think it meant

Shouldn't a mod just combine this with the other PJC-bashing thread? If it's indeed "all eggs," then combine with the Sean Miller thread, too. I'm assuming he runs the program. Perhaps I'm naive.

YoDeFoe wrote:PJC bullied the shit out of Barcello last night. He's a senior who's played in the E8 and Barcello is a teenager stepping onto McKale under the lights for the first time - so not a level playing field. But yeah, bullied. I loved the toughness and fight I saw out of PJC - especially his very active hands.

PJC: 1-6 for 3 pts, 2 asst and 4 to
Barcello: 1-1 for 2 pts, 3 asst and 2 to

Who bullied whom?

gumby wrote:Shouldn't a mod just combine this with the other PJC-bashing thread? If it's indeed "all eggs," then combine with the Sean Miller thread, too. I'm assuming he runs the program. Perhaps I'm naive.

to justify the merge, this thread would have to be ALL about PJC or Sean Miller -- clearly the PG position this year is not ALL about PJC, and wont be as the season progresses.

collective effort(s)

thank god

Barcello is going to be a beast sooner than later. Plus he's from my former HS, so I endorse him big time...

Puerco wrote:

YoDeFoe wrote:PJC bullied the shit out of Barcello last night. He's a senior who's played in the E8 and Barcello is a teenager stepping onto McKale under the lights for the first time - so not a level playing field. But yeah, bullied. I loved the toughness and fight I saw out of PJC - especially his very active hands.

PJC: 1-6 for 3 pts, 2 asst and 4 to
Barcello: 1-1 for 2 pts, 3 asst and 2 to

Who bullied whom?

PJC looked very tough on defense the first five minutes. Wouldn’t give Barcello an inch.

The caveat is that the defense of a senior should be well ahead of a freshman’s offense, especially after practicing and scrimmaging against each other.

From that bottom picture #5 Brandon Randolph appears to be the new "Chosen One."

Chicat wrote:

Puerco wrote:

YoDeFoe wrote:PJC bullied the shit out of Barcello last night. He's a senior who's played in the E8 and Barcello is a teenager stepping onto McKale under the lights for the first time - so not a level playing field. But yeah, bullied. I loved the toughness and fight I saw out of PJC - especially his very active hands.

PJC: 1-6 for 3 pts, 2 asst and 4 to
Barcello: 1-1 for 2 pts, 3 asst and 2 to

Who bullied whom?

PJC looked very tough on defense the first five minutes. Wouldn’t give Barcello an inch.

The caveat is that the defense of a senior should be well ahead of a freshman’s offense, especially after practicing and scrimmaging against each other.

Yep, I saw. But neither of those stat lines imply either player bullying anyone. If anything, PJC going 1-6 with a 0.5 A:TO ratio is pretty disappointing for a bully.

Puerco wrote:

Chicat wrote:

Puerco wrote:

YoDeFoe wrote:PJC bullied the shit out of Barcello last night. He's a senior who's played in the E8 and Barcello is a teenager stepping onto McKale under the lights for the first time - so not a level playing field. But yeah, bullied. I loved the toughness and fight I saw out of PJC - especially his very active hands.

PJC: 1-6 for 3 pts, 2 asst and 4 to
Barcello: 1-1 for 2 pts, 3 asst and 2 to

Who bullied whom?

PJC looked very tough on defense the first five minutes. Wouldn’t give Barcello an inch.

The caveat is that the defense of a senior should be well ahead of a freshman’s offense, especially after practicing and scrimmaging against each other.

Yep, I saw. But neither of those stat lines imply either player bullying anyone. If anything, PJC going 1-6 with a 0.5 A:TO ratio is pretty disappointing for a bully.

I feel like the defense should be ahead of the offense at this point in an intra-team scrimmage. They know the plays and should know each other’s tendencies. I’m not going to put too much stock in anyone’s stat lines. No one got hurt and they put on a good show for the fans. Mission accomplished all the way around.

Chicat wrote:

Puerco wrote:

YoDeFoe wrote:PJC bullied the shit out of Barcello last night. He's a senior who's played in the E8 and Barcello is a teenager stepping onto McKale under the lights for the first time - so not a level playing field. But yeah, bullied. I loved the toughness and fight I saw out of PJC - especially his very active hands.

PJC: 1-6 for 3 pts, 2 asst and 4 to
Barcello: 1-1 for 2 pts, 3 asst and 2 to

Who bullied whom?

PJC looked very tough on defense the first five minutes. Wouldn’t give Barcello an inch.

The caveat is that the defense of a senior should be well ahead of a freshman’s offense, especially after practicing and scrimmaging against each other.

Yeah. For a senior vs freshman matchup, PJC gave Barcello trouble early, but then he did very little after that. There was a lot of the disappearing act, and once Barcello seemed to get his footing, the D wasn't nearly as noticeable.

It was a scrimmage... Pump the brakes.

Yep, I was just taking exception to PJC 'bullying'. That's probably too strong a word for what I observed, first few minutes excepted.

Dodged another Mustafa Josiah Cartwright?
Thornton, too.

gumby wrote:Dodged another Mustafa Josiah Cartwright?

Thornton, too.

Nah, Duval is a crazy athlete. He needs to be a consistent shooter, but that tweet after an intrasquad scrimmage is just fishing for controversy.

Duval is good. Goodman is not.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

gumby wrote:Dodged another Mustafa Josiah Cartwright?

Thornton, too.

Nah, Duval is a crazy athlete. He needs to be a consistent shooter, but that tweet after an intrasquad scrimmage is just fishing for controversy.

Jeff Goodman? Fishing for clicks??

C’mon now. That’s not the mush mouth fellow UA alum we’ve all come to know and love...

Frybry02 wrote:It was a scrimmage... Pump the brakes.

Seriously.

I really liked what I saw from Trier when he was running the point last night. Could we possibly see more minutes from him there than expected? Maybe that's part of our answer?

billk78 wrote:I really liked what I saw from Trier when he was running the point last night.

me too

billk78 wrote:Could we possibly see more minutes from him there than expected?

i dont think there is any question about it

billk78 wrote:Maybe that's part of our answer?

maybe, but what about the other part(s)?

Trier did struggle to stay in front of the quicker smaller PG last night, so concerns about running him around on D and then asking him to give up the ball on O and then when does he have time and energy to do what he does best?