Bear Down Wildcats

Holy Shit.

Have we ever seen anything like this group?

All fantastic, all seemingly likable guys.

Special, special group.

No, never seen one like this looking like this during first two games at Arizona.

Even Barcello has been amazing. There was some talk he was not Arizona good, and now they compare him to TJ.

With no signed (NLI) recruits next year, going to have to be this year.

Longhorned wrote:No, never seen one like this looking like this during first two games at Arizona.

What is scary is they can get a lot better. We haven't Seen much of Randolph yet.

Impressive to say the least.

Barcello had no turnovers.

Longhorned wrote:Barcello had no turnovers.

He didn''t have any TOs v. NAU did he?

Merkin wrote:

Longhorned wrote:Barcello had no turnovers.

He didn''t have any TOs v. NAU did he?

None, he's averaging zero turnovers, and tonight he had 6 assists.

Merkin wrote:Even Barcello has been amazing. There was some talk he was not Arizona good, and now they compare him to TJ.

Don't recall anybody saying that.

I'd take 19 and 12 from Ayton every game

ASUHATER! wrote:I'd take 19 and 12 from Ayton every game

13

winky face

see, I told you

Ya know you can just type instead of saying winky face. Pro tip for you.

scumdevils86 wrote:Ya know you can just type instead of saying winky face. Pro tip for you.

Had no idea. Just like I didn't know I was on a message board earlier. You're super helpful tonight.

Btw, were you biting your nails during the last few possessions?

It really has been notable hasn't it, I mean a Barcello Akot Randolph Ira & Ayton starting 5 really would be another top 25 team.

TheGreatCatsby wrote:It really has been notable hasn't it, I mean a Barcello Akot Randolph Ira & Ayton starting 5 really would be another top 25 team.

Probably yeah. They'd have hiccups from being so young but any team in the country that isn't currently in the top 15-20 would take that lineup right now.

I don't know but Eric Money, Al Fleming, Jim Rappis & Coniel Norman weren't too shabby. No one as good as Ayton though

Forgot John Irving. Great class

I'm not sure how Miller is going to divide minutes on the perimeter when Alkins is healthy. Obviously, we're gonna want Trier on the floor as much as possible against foes like USC, UCLA & Oregon. Akot, Randolph, Smith, and Barcello all can make a case for significant minutes. With Lee & Pinder subbing minutes for Ayton & Ristic, that doesn't leave much left on the perimeter. If either Akot or Randolph stays for their sophomore year we'll have a decent starting unit.

Alieberman wrote:Holy Shit.

Have we ever seen anything like this group?

All fantastic, all seemingly likable guys.

Special, special group.

Yes i have. I saw the original Kiddie Korps.

Snowden would have loved this team. Score 100 and keep the other guys under 80.

ChooChooCat wrote:

Merkin wrote:Even Barcello has been amazing. There was some talk he was not Arizona good, and now they compare him to TJ.

Don't recall anybody saying that.

Even I have heard that several times.

Barcello is going to be the next great Arizona point guard.

DiehardDave37 wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:

Merkin wrote:Even Barcello has been amazing. There was some talk he was not Arizona good, and now they compare him to TJ.

Don't recall anybody saying that.

Even I have heard that several times.

Well whoever those several people were they're dumb and were dumb from the start. Ranking whores.

ChooChooCat wrote:

Merkin wrote:Even Barcello has been amazing. There was some talk he was not Arizona good, and now they compare him to TJ.

Don't recall anybody saying that.

I vaguely remember concern about his role, being viewed as more of a scorer shoe-horned into being a PG. I don't think it ever reached a level of not Arizona good, although that could be easily inferred if people viewed him more as a scorer. Of course I may be completely wrong, just tossing out my fuzzy recollection.

I think it's entirely possible that people are remembering the stories about Alex himself being unsure if he was Arizona good, and coach telling him after he showed out in more of a national stage "see, I told you, now forget about Stanford and come play for me"

Alieberman wrote:Holy Shit.

Have we ever seen anything like this group?

All fantastic, all seemingly likable guys.

Special, special group.

Yep, great bunch of kids. Good chemistry, improving every week.
March expectations rising.

ChooChooCat wrote:

DiehardDave37 wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:

Merkin wrote:Even Barcello has been amazing. There was some talk he was not Arizona good, and now they compare him to TJ.

Don't recall anybody saying that.

Even I have heard that several times.

Well whoever those several people were they're dumb and were dumb from the start. Ranking whores.

I think I heard it on PAC-12 Sports Report. Probably Matt Muehlebach telling what he had heard others say. I just read another poster say that he doesn't like Matt. i do, and Casey Jacobson too. I don't understand why people have to find so much fault in others. This board is starting to sound like the defunct one, but I'm not going anywhere else until RAP or I am finished, so you'll just have to tolerate the old geezer or ban me. BTW, I guess whoever dislikes Matt has more wins in an AZ uni than he does. Don't bother telling me that being a solid player on great teams and being a good announcer are two different things. I know that. I just think that he has picked up some knowledge in his time.

prh wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:

Merkin wrote:Even Barcello has been amazing. There was some talk he was not Arizona good, and now they compare him to TJ.

Don't recall anybody saying that.

I vaguely remember concern about his role, being viewed as more of a scorer shoe-horned into being a PG. I don't think it ever reached a level of not Arizona good, although that could be easily inferred if people viewed him more as a scorer. Of course I may be completely wrong, just tossing out my fuzzy recollection.

I said Barcello isn't the kind of recruit you want to depend on to be an immediate contributor. I would stand by that. Against big time teams, I wouldn't be stunned if his role constricted and he got few/no minutes.

I do think he'll be a great piece as an upperclassman and has the potential to be a good rotation player as a frosh. Just because I wouldn't count on him the same way I'd count on other freshmen to automatically contribute doesn't mean he doesn't prove he is actually ready.

I think he will get to the point he's ready, it's a matter of when. Early signs are promising, but I'd want to see it against good comp before I'm sure.

ChooChooCat wrote:

DiehardDave37 wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:

Merkin wrote:Even Barcello has been amazing. There was some talk he was not Arizona good, and now they compare him to TJ.

Don't recall anybody saying that.

Even I have heard that several times.

Well whoever those several people were they're dumb and were dumb from the start. Ranking whores.

Meulbach(sp?) for one, but he also said that Sean Miller said that Barcello has the same work effort in practice as TJ did.

Everyone from this class has exceeded expectations to this point. Going to interesting to see how Miller distributes the minutes moving forward. The obvious answers are game by game matchups and/or minutes come from Dusan and Pinder, but Pinder has fit in nicely to multiple lineups and done all you can ask really. I still think we look better on both ends (and on the glass) when Ayton is at the 5.

Competition is good, really going to pay off come March and really going to pay off for the guys who are going to be here 3 or 4 years. Our bench has minimal drop off 6-10 (6-11 when Alkins is back).

What's so nice is that we don't really have to worry about anyone getting into foul trouble or any minor injury. Because of this frosh class, every position has a competent backup.

Alieberman wrote:What's so nice is that we don't really have to worry about anyone getting into foul trouble or any minor injury. Because of this frosh class, every position has a competent backup.

The second a jinx post like this happens, I can hear Ayton and Trier running into each other and snapping their ACL's.

Yeah they're all really good.

We might even reach overtime before losing in the E8

Serious question: is anyone feeling the least bit conflicted over the legitimacy of this current team/roster? Personally, I’m not. Anyone who’s playing right now has got to be free of suspicion. It just wouldn’t make sense for the AD to give Miller the green light if there were even the slightest chance of a player being ineligible.

This is why the whole “win and vacate” thing is unnecessarily cynical, imo. Why would a legitimately constituted team have to vacate any of its achievements? It’s possible I’m being naive here and that this team’s legitimacy remains in question. I just don’t see why we’d take such an enormous risk with the program and ignore possible violations. Makes zero sense.

So against the national narrative that’s sure to emerge this year, casting doubt over Sean and his program, I think this entire team is indeed legit. We’ll have to see what happens with Rawle, but the second he suits up and plays, I’ll be convinced that zero questions remain about his eligibility. It’s unfortunate what happened with Book, and it’s obviously already impacted our ‘18 class. But we’ll recover. We’ve weathered adversity before. This team is going to cut down the nets in March, legitimately. We’ll turn the page on the scandal and recapture any momentum we’ve lost.

Bear down!

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Alieberman wrote:What's so nice is that we don't really have to worry about anyone getting into foul trouble or any minor injury. Because of this frosh class, every position has a competent backup.

The second a jinx post like this happens, I can hear Ayton and Trier running into each other and snapping their ACL's.

I said minor injury!!!!

Beachcat97 wrote:Serious question: is anyone feeling the least bit conflicted over the legitimacy of this current team/roster? Personally, I’m not. Anyone who’s playing right now has got to be free of suspicion. It just wouldn’t make sense for the AD to give Miller the green light if there were even the slightest chance of a player being ineligible.

This is why the whole “win and vacate” thing is unnecessarily cynical, imo. Why would a legitimately constituted team have to vacate any of its achievements? It’s possible I’m being naive here and that this team’s legitimacy remains in question. I just don’t see why we’d take such an enormous risk with the program and ignore possible violations. Makes zero sense.

So against the national narrative that’s sure to emerge this year, casting doubt over Sean and his program, I think this entire team is indeed legit. We’ll have to see what happens with Rawle, but the second he suits up and plays, I’ll be convinced that zero questions remain about his eligibility. It’s unfortunate what happened with Book, and it’s obviously already impacted our ‘18 class. But we’ll recover. We’ve weathered adversity before. This team is going to cut down the nets in March, legitimately. We’ll turn the page on the scandal and recapture any momentum we’ve lost.

Bear down!

I think every team with a legit shot at a Final Four has at least one player who would be ineligible to some extent if the full truth about their history was known. The youth basketball system is like that. I don't think we are an exception to that.

I don't feel conflicted about that at all. The system is set up for that sort of result, and there's nothing actually wrong about it. Put another way, if we won a NC and had to vacate it because a player got $10,000, well, I'm not bothered by the 10k to begin with.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:I don't feel conflicted about that at all. The system is set up for that sort of result, and there's nothing actually wrong about it. Put another way, if we won a NC and had to vacate it because a player got $10,000, well, I'm not bothered by the 10k to begin with.

Yeah. That's where I am too, Spiff. It's unfortunate that this scandal hit right on the eve of the season, but again, I've read/seen nothing that gives me good reason to doubt this team's legitimacy, or Miller's efforts to promote a culture of compliance. What I do know: last season, Trier (our best returning player) was held out for half the season amid eligibility concerns. No chances were taken. We exercised extreme caution with so much at stake. I don't see why it would be any different this season. If there were even a smidgeon of doubt with any player, he wouldn't be playing.

These freshmen are so talented, they might make history and be the first team to make our "uptempo" offense look good!

Ayton FOY easily.

RiseAndFire wrote:These freshmen are so talented, they might make history and be the first team to make our "uptempo" offense look good!

Ayton FOY easily.

Ahh still in denial

RiseAndFire wrote:These freshmen are so talented, they might make history and be the first team to make our "uptempo" offense look good!

Ayton FOY easily.

We were top 15 in offensive efficiency last year and have been top 15 three times under Miller. There are other finishes in the 20's.

If that offense doesn't look good, maybe stop watching through hater glasses?

Beachcat97 wrote:Serious question: is anyone feeling the least bit conflicted over the legitimacy of this current team/roster? Personally, I’m not. Anyone who’s playing right now has got to be free of suspicion. It just wouldn’t make sense for the AD to give Miller the green light if there were even the slightest chance of a player being ineligible.

This is why the whole “win and vacate” thing is unnecessarily cynical, imo. Why would a legitimately constituted team have to vacate any of its achievements? It’s possible I’m being naive here and that this team’s legitimacy remains in question. I just don’t see why we’d take such an enormous risk with the program and ignore possible violations. Makes zero sense.

So against the national narrative that’s sure to emerge this year, casting doubt over Sean and his program, I think this entire team is indeed legit. We’ll have to see what happens with Rawle, but the second he suits up and plays, I’ll be convinced that zero questions remain about his eligibility. It’s unfortunate what happened with Book, and it’s obviously already impacted our ‘18 class. But we’ll recover. We’ve weathered adversity before. This team is going to cut down the nets in March, legitimately. We’ll turn the page on the scandal and recapture any momentum we’ve lost.

Bear down!

When I am watching the game, I actually don't think anything of it. I agree with you - everyone that has played should be good to go. I don't think Miller would jeopardize this team and season by playing a guy like Randolph if he is in question.

The big thing will be Alkins. If you follow his social media and such, it sounds like he plans to be back. However, that could either be him not revealing anything, or truly not knowing what the outcome will be when he is healthy and ready to return.

Statfreak77 wrote:The big thing will be Alkins. If you follow his social media and such, it sounds like he plans to be back. However, that could either be him not revealing anything, or truly not knowing what the outcome will be when he is healthy and ready to return.

I think the rumors of Rawle's ineligibility are bullsh*t. Miller has maintained that he expects him to return in December. Compare this to last season when Miller wouldn't say a word about Trier's situation. Miller does not comment on an issue unless he's confident of what he's speaking about. Rawle will be playing this season, either by Dec or Jan.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:Serious question: is anyone feeling the least bit conflicted over the legitimacy of this current team/roster? Personally, I’m not. Anyone who’s playing right now has got to be free of suspicion. It just wouldn’t make sense for the AD to give Miller the green light if there were even the slightest chance of a player being ineligible.

This is why the whole “win and vacate” thing is unnecessarily cynical, imo. Why would a legitimately constituted team have to vacate any of its achievements? It’s possible I’m being naive here and that this team’s legitimacy remains in question. I just don’t see why we’d take such an enormous risk with the program and ignore possible violations. Makes zero sense.

So against the national narrative that’s sure to emerge this year, casting doubt over Sean and his program, I think this entire team is indeed legit. We’ll have to see what happens with Rawle, but the second he suits up and plays, I’ll be convinced that zero questions remain about his eligibility. It’s unfortunate what happened with Book, and it’s obviously already impacted our ‘18 class. But we’ll recover. We’ve weathered adversity before. This team is going to cut down the nets in March, legitimately. We’ll turn the page on the scandal and recapture any momentum we’ve lost.

Bear down!

I think every team with a legit shot at a Final Four has at least one player who would be ineligible to some extent if the full truth about their history was known. The youth basketball system is like that. I don't think we are an exception to that.

I don't feel conflicted about that at all. The system is set up for that sort of result, and there's nothing actually wrong about it. Put another way, if we won a NC and had to vacate it because a player got $10,000, well, I'm not bothered by the 10k to begin with.

I know most on here couldn't care less about my opinion, but this may be the first time I've disagreed with you Spiff. I would care about the $10,000. I also care very much about Jason Terry taking that money and causing us to vacate. And I don't care if he did have a kid to support. If you can't handle the outcome, don't do the deed.

ChooChooCat wrote:Don't recall anybody saying that.

Guy next to me at the game Sunday said. It was my Dad though...

DiehardDave37 wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:Serious question: is anyone feeling the least bit conflicted over the legitimacy of this current team/roster? Personally, I’m not. Anyone who’s playing right now has got to be free of suspicion. It just wouldn’t make sense for the AD to give Miller the green light if there were even the slightest chance of a player being ineligible.

This is why the whole “win and vacate” thing is unnecessarily cynical, imo. Why would a legitimately constituted team have to vacate any of its achievements? It’s possible I’m being naive here and that this team’s legitimacy remains in question. I just don’t see why we’d take such an enormous risk with the program and ignore possible violations. Makes zero sense.

So against the national narrative that’s sure to emerge this year, casting doubt over Sean and his program, I think this entire team is indeed legit. We’ll have to see what happens with Rawle, but the second he suits up and plays, I’ll be convinced that zero questions remain about his eligibility. It’s unfortunate what happened with Book, and it’s obviously already impacted our ‘18 class. But we’ll recover. We’ve weathered adversity before. This team is going to cut down the nets in March, legitimately. We’ll turn the page on the scandal and recapture any momentum we’ve lost.

Bear down!

I think every team with a legit shot at a Final Four has at least one player who would be ineligible to some extent if the full truth about their history was known. The youth basketball system is like that. I don't think we are an exception to that.

I don't feel conflicted about that at all. The system is set up for that sort of result, and there's nothing actually wrong about it. Put another way, if we won a NC and had to vacate it because a player got $10,000, well, I'm not bothered by the 10k to begin with.

I know most on here couldn't care less about my opinion, but this may be the first time I've disagreed with you Spiff. I would care about the $10,000. I also care very much about Jason Terry taking that money and causing us to vacate. And I don't care if he did have a kid to support. If you can't handle the outcome, don't do the deed.

It's all good on disagreeing. The core of my opinion is my base opinion that there's nothing bad about benefits other than the violation of arbitrary NCAA rules.

I recognize that opinion is not widely shared and it's cool. I advocate for allowing athletes to openly profit off their likeness on here, and I'm pretty sure that is not the majority opinion.

There's room for different opinions. I'm sure you can understand that if I'm ok with athletes profiting from their likeness, I don't really get charged up about potential benefits maybe coming their way in the past. No weirdness on different opinions. I respect that you may feel different from me and diverse opinions...that's a good thing.

I initially took some time warming up to the season due to the bribery scandal, but now I'm pretty good with it seeing the school put out all those kids to play under the belief none of them accepted bribes.

The charges like those against Book are on pretty small dollar amount scale, but it's a starting point or at least a warning shot across the bow to the shoe companies and the kid handlers to make some attempt to clean it up a bit. The process exposed the bribe culture, perhaps it will make others think twice before getting involved with the bribe process. It'll have a short term effect, but as for a lasting effect, probably not, as it'll just be done a different way to avoid detection unless any real reform is made.

The real reform does need to be at the high school level, as it is now the top 200 are basically aggregated into the same travel school teams that play nationally and in tournaments. That's the most efficient way on a market level to evaluate these players, and for the kids' basketball skills development in such a basketball intense environment. But by making contacts with the same teams over and over, in time it will always invite the big money in terms of school bribes to come play and stay at the U, agents for upcoming contracts, and product endorsement money. Who would even have the power to really break up this system, as these kids and parents are ultimately deciding to create the super teams at the high school level. This in its own way more easily facilitates a bidding war in their favor, to help family members, friends, and associates line their pockets for the child's services.

If the allegations against Book are true, he's a middle man, a money shuffler who takes his cut. It's at that point where it is up to society to determine if that is a crime or not. Probably on an individual level, yes, given the institutions involved; though Book did operate in a system put together by all the interested parties for these players to facilitate the exchange of money. It's also whether the process as a whole that these kids go through in itself is a precursor to criminal activity, as it creates an environment of near irresistible bribery potential for everybody- players, families, corporations and schools. Now the shoe and endorsement money is even bigger, it's like throwing a bunch of logs onto an already burning fire.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

prh wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:

Merkin wrote:Even Barcello has been amazing. There was some talk he was not Arizona good, and now they compare him to TJ.

Don't recall anybody saying that.

I vaguely remember concern about his role, being viewed as more of a scorer shoe-horned into being a PG. I don't think it ever reached a level of not Arizona good, although that could be easily inferred if people viewed him more as a scorer. Of course I may be completely wrong, just tossing out my fuzzy recollection.

I said Barcello isn't the kind of recruit you want to depend on to be an immediate contributor. I would stand by that. Against big time teams, I wouldn't be stunned if his role constricted and he got few/no minutes.

I do think he'll be a great piece as an upperclassman and has the potential to be a good rotation player as a frosh. Just because I wouldn't count on him the same way I'd count on other freshmen to automatically contribute doesn't mean he doesn't prove he is actually ready.

I think he will get to the point he's ready, it's a matter of when. Early signs are promising, but I'd want to see it against good comp before I'm sure.

I think this is spot on. Just because Barcello isn't on the ungodly level of our other freshmen who are likely to leave after one or at least two years doesn't make him a bad recruit. The fact that he looks very serviceable as a freshman is very encouraging. The game isn't too fast of physical for him. He's much further along than PJC as a freshman, that's for certain.

I'd say he's probably as close to TJ McConnell during his freshman year at Duquesne. McConnell was very solid as a sophomore when he played against Arizona at McKale. In just two games from Barcello, their games look similar. Barcello hasn't over-penetrated and tried to do too much or force something that isn't there. This season Barcello will always have an embarrassment of riches on the court around him. All he has to do is facilitate and be in the right spot to knock down open jumpers and give his all on defense. As he matures and his game grows, he can take on more responsibility.

TheGreatCatsby wrote:I initially took some time warming up to the season due to the bribery scandal, but now I'm pretty good with it seeing the school put out all those kids to play under the belief none of them accepted bribes.

The charges like those against Book are on pretty small dollar amount scale, but it's a starting point or at least a warning shot across the bow to the shoe companies and the kid handlers to make some attempt to clean it up a bit. The process exposed the bribe culture, perhaps it will make others think twice before getting involved with the bribe process. It'll have a short term effect, but as for a lasting effect, probably not, as it'll just be done a different way to avoid detection unless any real reform is made.

The real reform does need to be at the high school level, as it is now the top 200 are basically aggregated into the same travel school teams that play nationally and in tournaments. That's the most efficient way on a market level to evaluate these players, and for the kids' basketball skills development in such a basketball intense environment. But by making contacts with the same teams over and over, in time it will always invite the big money in terms of school bribes to come play and stay at the U, agents for upcoming contracts, and product endorsement money. Who would even have the power to really break up this system, as these kids and parents are ultimately deciding to create the super teams at the high school level. This in its own way more easily facilitates a bidding war in their favor, to help family members, friends, and associates line their pockets for the child's services.

If the allegations against Book are true, he's a middle man, a money shuffler who takes his cut. It's at that point where it is up to society to determine if that is a crime or not. Probably on an individual level, yes, given the institutions involved; though Book did operate in a system put together by all the interested parties for these players to facilitate the exchange of money. It's also whether the process as a whole that these kids go through in itself is a precursor to criminal activity, as it creates an environment of near irresistible bribery potential for everybody- players, families, corporations and schools. Now the shoe and endorsement money is even bigger, it's like throwing a bunch of logs onto an already burning fire.

Good post. I agree with your thoughts on Book, he looks like that guy. Seems to be highly possible that he acted without Miller's knowledge or approval. (hope so anyway). We'll see how things shake out in the next couple of months.

Arizona still confident in Brandon Randolph, who ‘looks like himself’ after concussion
The freshman should see an increase in minutes against Cal State Bakersfield on Thursday
by Ryan Kelapire@RKelapire Nov 15, 2017, 12:29pm PST

“We’ll work him back into it. We basically just got his feet wet the last game,” Miller said Wednesday. “I would think that he would have the next step from there and hopefully he has another good day in practice today.

“Yesterday, he practiced well, was able to get through from start to finish. All of the symptoms that he experienced are clearly behind him now. He looked like himself. A couple guys that I’ve dealt with in basketball that have had concussions, visually they just appear to be different. They’re just not quite locked in. They’re not as engaged as they usually are. Brandon was back yesterday and did a good job in practice.”

Miller said Wednesday was Randolph’s first “real full practice” in almost two weeks, and he expects the guard’s minutes to ramp up against Cal State Bakersfield on Thursday.

“I haven’t lost any confidence in Brandon,” Miller said. “Brandon is off to a great start. He has surpassed our expectations on where we thought he would be young in his career as a freshman, but when you miss eight or nine practices and are hit with a concussion so that you’re not able to do anything at all and you’re recovering, it takes some time to work back in.”

With Randolph still on the mend and Alkins out, Miller said he won’t have a good feel for what UA’s rotations will truly look like until mid-December.

At that point, Randolph may be competing with Alkins, Emmanuel Akot, and Ira Lee for playing time at small forward.

“We have depth there. It’s going to settle in, though,” Miller said. “There’s going to be a winner. I don’t want to say a loser, the loser simply is going to have to wait their turn. Not everyone gets to play equal minutes. Like all college teams, we’ll eventually shorten once things are proved

https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketbal ... nch-injury" target="_blank

For what it's worth, Lee and Randolph produced last night vs OSU, but Randolph just could not make shots. Other than that, they both added something in short spells. A few of Brandon's shots go in and they would both have had really productive games.