Bear Down Wildcats

Someone needed to start the thread.

Worst best team ever.

AZ loses 3 in a row

AZ goes from #2 to unranked

ASU is ranked

The Four Horseman of the Apocalypse can't be far behind

dmjcat wrote:AZ loses 3 in a row

AZ goes from #2 to unranked

ASU is ranked

The Four Horseman of the Apocalypse can't be far behind

Arizona fans still have one day to make it even worse.

OSUCat wrote:

dmjcat wrote:AZ loses 3 in a row

AZ goes from #2 to unranked

ASU is ranked

The Four Horseman of the Apocalypse can't be far behind

Arizona fans still have one day to make it even worse.

Especially with 3 on the DL injured and only probable. Could be the worst UA sports week ever.

Merkin wrote:

OSUCat wrote:

dmjcat wrote:AZ loses 3 in a row

AZ goes from #2 to unranked

ASU is ranked

The Four Horseman of the Apocalypse can't be far behind

Arizona fans still have one day to make it even worse.

Especially with 3 on the DL injured and only probable. Could be the worst UA sports week ever.

Right now I still think we can take Arizona Christian. Maybe.

If the season is vacated, at least the losses won't affect our school W/L record. Thanks for everything, Sean!

I love it. From WIN AND VACATE ... to this. If this ain't trial by fire for our kids I don't know what is. Could be our finest hour.

Where is the d?

This thread is funny because it shows how fickle fans are. Yes it was disappointing. Yet it is the beginning of the season. If the players can't see this as a wake up call and that they have a lot of learning and hard work to do, and we haven't shown improvement by the start of the conference season, then I would be concerned. We have so many freshmen who just found out that their is a huge level difference between high school and division 1 power conference schools. Now they know the competition is fiercer and if they want to make it to the next level they are going to have to learn the game and develop.

Development is why I enjoy watching college basketball so much. Let's see what CSM can do.

Miller needs to:

1. Find a point guard. Maybe start Alex Barcello and only play the 5'2" PJC sparingly to give Barcello a rest.
2. Insist that Ayton touch the ball on every possession.
3. Shorten the rotation even if that means that some of the highly regarded freshmen ride the bench:

Pg - Barcello, PJC (7 minutes per game max)
Guards - Trier, Alkins (when he returns), Randolph
Post - Ayton, Ristic, Pinder

The rest spend the year practicing for next year.

4. Take away the defense coaching responsibility from Romar. Make him strictly a recruiting coach.

enfuego wrote:Miller needs to:

1. Find a point guard. Maybe start Alex Barcello and only play the 5'2" PJC sparingly to give Barcello a rest.
2. Insist that Ayton touch the ball on every possession.
3. Shorten the rotation even if that means that some of the highly regarded freshmen ride the bench:

Pg - Barcello, PJC (7 minutes per game max)
Guards - Trier, Alkins (when he returns), Randolph
Post - Ayton, Ristic, Pinder

The rest spend the year practicing for next year.

4. Take away the defense coaching responsibility from Romar. Make him strictly a recruiting coach.

Have to agree with much of this. PJC can't be an every down running back. He needs to be a change of pace point guard who comes in and gives a boost defensively as a disrupter. But I can't see Miller making such a change by essentially benching a senior for a freshman who is still awfully raw.

I've seen enough of Dylan Smith. I think he was a mistake. Maybe he'll start to bloom like the freshmen. But he's now in his third year of college basketball. He practiced all last season with this team. He's shown me very little to be excited about. If he's still in the rotation in March we're in big trouble.

Trier cannot be allowed to hold the ball more than three seconds. If he gets a touch he either needs to shoot immediately, drive immediately or pass immediately.

Miller is here for years, assuming the fbi thing doesnt bite him in the ass.

Also, ain't nobody gonna want to take this job with the fbi thing (and possible ncaa sanctions regarding it) looming over us.

dovecanyoncat wrote:I love it. From WIN AND VACATE ... to this. If this ain't trial by fire for our kids I don't know what is. Could be our finest hour.

Miller is just one step ahead of us all, you can't vacate any wis if you don't win.

I am so tired of the fickle fans. Win or lose, I will always support the team. The start of this season kind of reminds me of the 2000-2001 season, where the Cats lost 4 non-conference games. That team didn't do so bad. Young players and waiting for Rawlie to come back, the Cats will be much better by February.

Irish27 wrote:I am so tired of the fickle fans. Win or lose, I will always support the team. The start of this season kind of reminds me of the 2000-2001 season, where the Cats lost 4 non-conference games. That team didn't do so bad. Young players and waiting for Rawlie to come back, the Cats will be much better by February.

We're all diehard Cats fans, so spare me. It's not fickle to question Miller in year nine. In fact, there's been almost no criticism of Miller until this point. The FBI investigation should bother you, and given what we just saw in the Bahamas, you should reconsider your dedication to SM.

It's not like we lost three buzzer beaters. We got shellacked and out coached every game. The youth improving and Rawle returning will help us but comparing this team to one that made the NC game under a HOF coach seems a little ridiculous.

I will be happy to eat crow if Miller turns everything around. But he needs to prove he's more than just a great recruiter.

Can't believe the overreaction...actually yes I can. OMG we lost badly in 3 early games, it's the end!!!! It is a bit shocking but please, chill out. 1st, were missing our second best player behind Ayton and prob the heart/beast of the team this year. 2nd, it's early. 3rd, these losses showed everyone on/off the team they aren't that good...yet. 4th, it gives us/Miller a lot of info. I saw some good things out of Randolph, Akot seemed just a bit overwhelmed but you can tell he'll develop over the season. Barcello shouldn't play much...he won't be a factor in march. Lee was disappointing, he def doesn't want the ball. Smith should become a rotation player. The team should be pretty solid a month, or two down the road, but Ristic and PJC concern me. They just aren't that good of bball players. And they're our supposed seniors/leaders. Rawle/ayton/trier all need to be leaders and set the intensity. I know rawle will, and Ayton was awesome. Trier is very needed but he's gotta get better at picking his spots. Lotta games to play, still optimistic

TatetheGreat wrote:

Irish27 wrote:I am so tired of the fickle fans. Win or lose, I will always support the team. The start of this season kind of reminds me of the 2000-2001 season, where the Cats lost 4 non-conference games. That team didn't do so bad. Young players and waiting for Rawlie to come back, the Cats will be much better by February.

We're all diehard Cats fans, so spare me. It's not fickle to question Miller in year nine. In fact, there's been almost no criticism of Miller until this point. The FBI investigation should bother you, and given what we just saw in the Bahamas, you should reconsider your dedication to SM.

It's not like we lost three buzzer beaters. We got shellacked and out coached every game. The youth improving and Rawle returning will help us but comparing this team to one that made the NC game under a HOF coach seems a little ridiculous.

I will be happy to eat crow if Miller turns everything around. But he needs to prove he's more than just a great recruiter.

I don't remember ever hearing Sean Miller's name being mentioned in the FBI's report. Also, even though Miller has not made it to a Final Four yet, 3 Elite Eights and several Pac-12 titles is not too bad, especially since 2001 is the last time the Cats have made a Final Four.

Irish27 wrote:

TatetheGreat wrote:

Irish27 wrote:I am so tired of the fickle fans. Win or lose, I will always support the team. The start of this season kind of reminds me of the 2000-2001 season, where the Cats lost 4 non-conference games. That team didn't do so bad. Young players and waiting for Rawlie to come back, the Cats will be much better by February.

We're all diehard Cats fans, so spare me. It's not fickle to question Miller in year nine. In fact, there's been almost no criticism of Miller until this point. The FBI investigation should bother you, and given what we just saw in the Bahamas, you should reconsider your dedication to SM.

It's not like we lost three buzzer beaters. We got shellacked and out coached every game. The youth improving and Rawle returning will help us but comparing this team to one that made the NC game under a HOF coach seems a little ridiculous.

I will be happy to eat crow if Miller turns everything around. But he needs to prove he's more than just a great recruiter.

I don't remember ever hearing Sean Miller's name being mentioned in the FBI's report. Also, even though Miller has not made it to a Final Four yet, 3 Elite Eights and several Pac-12 titles is not too bad, especially since 2001 is the last time the Cats have made a Final Four.

Final fours are all that should matter to programs like UA.. dont pretend you are big then don't act like it. Not saying fire hom.nut he isn't perfect and the lack of final fours is concerning with his recruiting classes.

And great Miller isn't in the FBI report. No legal issues for him. But he is still responsible for it on the ncaa side and must account for it ultimately

Irish27 wrote: I don't remember ever hearing Sean Miller's name being mentioned in the FBI's report. Also, even though Miller has not made it to a Final Four yet, 3 Elite Eights and several Pac-12 titles is not too bad, especially since 2001 is the last time the Cats have made a Final Four.

Miller has been cleared by the FBI from everything I have read.

But this was the year CSM was going to get the team to the Final Four. He has the players, and the assistant coach (Romar) to help him get there.

It had to be, due to recruits bailing, and no signed NLIs for next season due to the FBI investigation.

What do you think Shaq is telling his son after that game he watched.

UA is soft? The head coach has lost the team? No PG to get you the ball?

I'll still watch every basketball game like I do every football game, but my basketball expectations are now what they are for the football team.

Is this a serious thread? Hate to see it if so. Would love to see it die away. Tough times but not this tough.

azcat49 wrote:Is this a serious thread? Hate to see it if so. Would love to see it die away. Tough times but not this tough.

No, no one is really calling for him to be fired. At least not yet.

But this season will be very tough, and the next ones even worse.

If we lose either of our ‘18 commits, that’s going to hurt a lot worse than what happened in the Bahamas.

It indicates waning confidence in/enthusiasm for the program.

Beachcat97 wrote:If we lose either of our ‘18 commits, that’s going to hurt a lot worse than what happened in the Bahamas.

It indicates waning confidence in/enthusiasm for the program.

Yep and that is 100 percent on Miller

The team has only played six games and people are ready to jump off the ledge. I believe this team will get it going, the young guys will get better and hopefully Rawlie will be back soon.

People want to start Barcello at PG?

The dude looked like he belonged at some NAIA school the past three games.

Beachcat97 wrote:If we lose either of our ‘18 commits, that’s going to hurt a lot worse than what happened in the Bahamas.

It indicates waning confidence in/enthusiasm for the program.

It would take a lot more than what happened over the last three days to diminish the enthusiasm for the program over the last 30 years. I think we're getting a little carried away here. Sure the last three days sucked but it's worse for Arizona fans because we're not used to losing even 2 in a row which proves how fortunate we are. True fans ride the storm out. Things will get better. Good grief.

1 sniff of adversity and y'all want the man gone smh.

Main Event wrote:1 sniff of adversity and y'all want the man gone smh.

Losing to unranked NC State was “adversity.” Losing to also unranked SMU was “concerning.” Losing a third straight game, to Purdue by 25 (worst loss of Miller era), is something more. No one can really explain it, though many are trying.

We have to let the season play out because all of this adversity and concern can turn into momentum and confidence very quickly.

By the way, there’s nothing wrong with being critical of Miller. Expectations are high at AZ, and our coach gets paid a ton. If there’s a problem with his job performance, this is a good place to express that.

I guess we're pretending Oregon didn't happen last year, ya know where we were down 40 at one point and lost by more than last night. Purdue's points came late

I don't know what the fuck is going on, but Miller has earned more rope than this over a damn 3 game stretch in November. Give him some time to pull it together

Ayton did not play in Spain, correct?

Main Event wrote:I guess we're pretending Oregon didn't happen last year, ya know where we were down 40 at one point and lost by more than last night. Purdue's points came late

I don't know what the fuck is going on, but Miller has earned more rope than this over a damn 3 game stretch in November. Give him some time to pull it together

He does for sure but not enough rope to not question him and ask for adjustments to be made to best use the roster as it stands today

PHXCATS wrote:

Main Event wrote:I guess we're pretending Oregon didn't happen last year, ya know where we were down 40 at one point and lost by more than last night. Purdue's points came late

I don't know what the fuck is going on, but Miller has earned more rope than this over a damn 3 game stretch in November. Give him some time to pull it together

He does for sure but not enough rope to not question him and ask for adjustments to be made to best use the roster as it stands today

At what point do you hold the players accountable and stop using coaches as the easy out? Was it Miller who threw a late turnover against SMU or front ended key 1 and 1's down the stretch in a tied game?

Let him run his program. Miller could go 0-18 in conference and get another year. We were all worried about North Carolina and now some of you want him out?

And Phxcats, please don't turn into the chief of the basketball forum as Miller is far above RR

Main Event wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:

Main Event wrote:I guess we're pretending Oregon didn't happen last year, ya know where we were down 40 at one point and lost by more than last night. Purdue's points came late

I don't know what the fuck is going on, but Miller has earned more rope than this over a damn 3 game stretch in November. Give him some time to pull it together

He does for sure but not enough rope to not question him and ask for adjustments to be made to best use the roster as it stands today

At what point do you hold the players accountable and stop using coaches as the easy out? Was it Miller who threw a late turnover against SMU or front ended key 1 and 1's down the stretch in a tied game?

When a guy gets beat one or two times that is the player. When it s seven or eight that is coaching, the same issues have popped up all week.

Both deserve blame but coach did not adjust enough to put UA in thr best spot to win

I am not being chef at all, I have said many time this week Miller is great but needs to just adjust a little bit for this roster. Clearly this isn't working right now.

I am not saying he isn't good or should be fired at all. But three losses in a row to not so great teams is concerning and I think it is completely fair to ask for adjustments at this point. But let's see how the next few games go before being too dramatic

PHXCATS wrote:

Main Event wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:

Main Event wrote:I guess we're pretending Oregon didn't happen last year, ya know where we were down 40 at one point and lost by more than last night. Purdue's points came late

I don't know what the fuck is going on, but Miller has earned more rope than this over a damn 3 game stretch in November. Give him some time to pull it together

He does for sure but not enough rope to not question him and ask for adjustments to be made to best use the roster as it stands today

At what point do you hold the players accountable and stop using coaches as the easy out? Was it Miller who threw a late turnover against SMU or front ended key 1 and 1's down the stretch in a tied game?

When a guy gets beat one or two times that is the player. When it s seven or eight that is coaching, the same issues have popped up all week.

Both deserve blame but coach did not adjust enough to put UA in thr best spot to win

Is Akot starting over Smith not an adjustment after we lost the 1st 2 with Smith? If neither can check a guy, neither can check a guy.

Arizona was in position to win the first 2 games, guys missing free throws and literally throwing ill advised passes are player mistakes, not coaching

Sure blame the players for that. The players Miller hand picked

Main Event wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:

Main Event wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:

Main Event wrote:I guess we're pretending Oregon didn't happen last year, ya know where we were down 40 at one point and lost by more than last night. Purdue's points came late

I don't know what the fuck is going on, but Miller has earned more rope than this over a damn 3 game stretch in November. Give him some time to pull it together

He does for sure but not enough rope to not question him and ask for adjustments to be made to best use the roster as it stands today

At what point do you hold the players accountable and stop using coaches as the easy out? Was it Miller who threw a late turnover against SMU or front ended key 1 and 1's down the stretch in a tied game?

When a guy gets beat one or two times that is the player. When it s seven or eight that is coaching, the same issues have popped up all week.

Both deserve blame but coach did not adjust enough to put UA in thr best spot to win

Is Akot starting over Smith not an adjustment after we lost the 1st 2 with Smith? If neither can check a guy, neither can check a guy.

Arizona was in position to win the first 2 games, guys missing free throws and literally throwing ill advised passes are player mistakes, not coaching

What does Smith bring to the table, anything? I mean, he can't shoot, can't defend, can't create...there is probably a reason why the kid was at UNC-Ashville before coming to Arizona.

Statfreak77 wrote:What does Smith bring to the table, anything? I mean, he can't shoot, can't defend, can't create...there is probably a reason why the kid was at UNC-Ashville before coming to Arizona.

Not a good argument. TJ was at Duquesne before coming to AZ. Sometimes good players end up at smaller programs.

PHXCATS wrote:Sure blame the players for that. The players Miller hand picked

The head coach bears RESPONSIBILITY for EVERYTHING that goes on in the program, good and bad, that does not mean he is TO BLAME for everything. It is a subtle difference, but don't blame the world if your point-to-point linear thinking cannot grasp that concept.

And stop acting like coaches are not responsible (deserving of credit OR blame) for the classes they bring in. That is ONE factor they have the MOST control over. The coach is the BIGGEST factor in recruiting. How do you think ourFB class would look if Saban came here?

You slam Miller for his lack of a Final 4 "with the players he has had" and in the next breath you (correctly) say "if recruiting falls off due to lack of excitement about the program, that is on him".

But you give RR a pass on his 'looking UP at mediocre' record because of HIS failure recruit (in 6 years) fewer legit players than I have fingers on one hand?

We have had great classes because Miller is a kick ass recruiter.

Go play on the football board and get excited because we are going a bowl game that is likely the equivalent of a CBIT berth.

I would be fine keeping him or firing him. There is definitely better coaches out there and I don't think it is too hard to recruit here.

SunnyAZ wrote:I would be fine keeping him or firing him. There is definitely better coaches out there and I don't think it is too hard to recruit here.

You. Are. Dreaming.

There may be SOME better coaches out there.. they don’t grow on trees and they are not lining up for this job.

Lute & Miller both demonstrates a coach can win big here IF they bust ass and do the right things - which is a HUGE advantage. Were it not for Lute, we would be a power 5 conference equivalent of New Mexico.

But thinking recruits will flock here because “We are Arizona” is delusional.

Harvey Specter wrote:

SunnyAZ wrote:I would be fine keeping him or firing him. There is definitely better coaches out there and I don't think it is too hard to recruit here.

You. Are. Dreaming.

There may be SOME better coaches out there.. they don’t grow on trees and they are not lining up for this job.

Lute & Miller both demonstrates a coach can win big here IF they bust ass and do the right things - which is a HUGE advantage. Were it not for Lute, we would be a power 5 conference equivalent of New Mexico.

But thinking recruits will flock here because “We are Arizona” is delusional.

yes because Sean Miller was dominating recruiting at Xavier

Rich rod making everyone forget about miller.

SunnyAZ wrote:I would be fine keeping him or firing him. There is definitely better coaches out there and I don't think it is too hard to recruit here.

I disagree, Sunny. Better coaches out there? I'm quite sure that if you look at overall coaching success over the last 5 years (it has to include benchmarks beyond reaching the FF), Miller would rank in the top 10, if not top 5. Heading into this season, he's been on an outstanding run at AZ.

And even if the unthinkable happened and Miller were let go, who are you gonna get? An up-and-comer at a mid-major? Romar? Pastner? Tim Floyd? It's not like there's some heir apparent waiting in the wings. We'd be taking an enormous risk by parting ways with Miller. I don't think we're even near the point where we seriously have that conversation. Let's see how the current season plays out.

Beachcat97 wrote:

SunnyAZ wrote:I would be fine keeping him or firing him. There is definitely better coaches out there and I don't think it is too hard to recruit here.

I disagree, Sunny. Better coaches out there? I'm quite sure that if you look at overall coaching success over the last 5 years (it has to include benchmarks beyond reaching the FF), Miller would rank in the top 10, if not top 5. Heading into this season, he's been on an outstanding run at AZ.

And even if the unthinkable happened and Miller were let go, who are you gonna get? An up-and-comer at a mid-major? Romar? Pastner? Tim Floyd? It's not like there's some heir apparent waiting in the wings. We'd be taking an enormous risk by parting ways with Miller. I don't think we're even near the point where we seriously have that conversation. Let's see how the current season plays out.

and he would rank 3rd on having the most talent

SunnyAZ wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:

SunnyAZ wrote:I would be fine keeping him or firing him. There is definitely better coaches out there and I don't think it is too hard to recruit here.

I disagree, Sunny. Better coaches out there? I'm quite sure that if you look at overall coaching success over the last 5 years (it has to include benchmarks beyond reaching the FF), Miller would rank in the top 10, if not top 5. Heading into this season, he's been on an outstanding run at AZ.

And even if the unthinkable happened and Miller were let go, who are you gonna get? An up-and-comer at a mid-major? Romar? Pastner? Tim Floyd? It's not like there's some heir apparent waiting in the wings. We'd be taking an enormous risk by parting ways with Miller. I don't think we're even near the point where we seriously have that conversation. Let's see how the current season plays out.

and he would rank 3rd on having the most talent

It would be one thing if we were 9 years into the Miller era without a Pac title or a run past the first weekend of the tourney. He's done these multiple times. In fact, in 8 completed seasons at AZ, he's been past the first weekend 5 times. He's also won 4 Pac reg seasons titles.

SunnyAZ wrote:

Harvey Specter wrote:

SunnyAZ wrote:I would be fine keeping him or firing him. There is definitely better coaches out there and I don't think it is too hard to recruit here.

You. Are. Dreaming.

There may be SOME better coaches out there.. they don’t grow on trees and they are not lining up for this job.

Lute & Miller both demonstrates a coach can win big here IF they bust ass and do the right things - which is a HUGE advantage. Were it not for Lute, we would be a power 5 conference equivalent of New Mexico.

But thinking recruits will flock here because “We are Arizona” is delusional.

yes because Sean Miller was dominating recruiting at Xavier

Relative to his peers he recruited quite effectively.

But you are right... recruiting to a mid major and to a school in a Power 5 conference is exactly the same.

Miller recruits better than Lute did.