Bear Down Wildcats

Last 7 Games:

25.7mpg - (13-51) 25.4%fg - (10-35) 28.5% 3pt - (11-18) 61.1% ft - 13 assists - 9 turnovers - 6.42ppg

three year totals:

2018 - 14.6mpg - 36.3%fg - 33.0%3pt - 81.0%ft - 1.6rpg - 1.1apg - .1spg - .9tpg - 4.3ppg
2019 - 24.4mpg - 34.1%fg - 35.1%3pt - 73.9%ft - 3.7rpg - 1.1apg - .6spg - 1.7tpg - 7.2ppg
2020 - 25.1mpg - 37.9%fg - 36.3%3pt - 72.3%ft - 2.7rpg - 1.4apg - .6spg - 1.4tpg - 8.2ppg

What’s your point, 97?

That we won’t be retiring his number?

Miller loves himself long defenders. Only explanation for 20+ minutes a game

Beachcat97 wrote:What’s your point, 97?

That we won’t be retiring his number?

he is what he is, shit to total shit on offense - do not expect that to change down the stretch and dont expect his 25+mpg to change either

azcat49 wrote:Miller loves himself long defenders. Only explanation for 20+ minutes a game

i said elsewhere, i dont give a rats ass if your Alvin Robertson, no amount of stellar defense (which Smith doesnt even play) can make up for that abysmal offense

Notice 97 I didn’t say “great defenders” just long. He wouldn’t even be in the top 10 of all time AZ defenders IMO. My only thought is Baker must really be suspect on that end but I thought I remember Cal saying he was a decent defender

One last add, you don’t win the N.C. without being good on offense. While we are top 20 in efficiency for the season I bet we are not that in games vs tourney teams we have played

He's consistent ... I'll give him that.

The thing about this team though is that when Dylan is struggling, this team struggles.

We need decent Dylan to win. Doesn't have to be great.... just decent.

Alieberman wrote:He's consistent ... I'll give him that.

The thing about this team though is that when Dylan is struggling, this team struggles.

We need decent Dylan to win. Doesn't have to be great.... just decent.

Feels like that’s because of playing time.

Play him less and we won’t be so reliant on Decent Dylan to win.

azcat49 wrote:Notice 97 I didn’t say “great defenders” just long.

yes you did and i noticed that, the response was partly laced with my own angst

azcat49 wrote: My only thought is Baker must really be suspect on that end but I thought I remember Cal saying he was a decent defender

i also think Miller really wants a steady player off the bench to relieve Mannion - Baker is more equipped with that than Smith and oddly enough i believe Miller trusts him more in that expanded capacity than Smith and therefore Smith is the defacto starter cause the options other dont exist.

azcat49 wrote:One last add, you don’t win the N.C. without being good on offense. While we are top 20 in efficiency for the season I bet we are not that in games vs tourney teams we have played

well we shot 26.9% against Baylor, 38.5% against Gonzaga, 39.6% against St John's, 39.6% against Oregon State, and 25.4% against UCLA - there is a correlation here to wins and losses.

More evidence of DWWD

Good post, thanks for the trend.

Chicat wrote:

Alieberman wrote:He's consistent ... I'll give him that.

The thing about this team though is that when Dylan is struggling, this team struggles.

We need decent Dylan to win. Doesn't have to be great.... just decent.

Feels like that’s because of playing time.

Play him less and we won’t be so reliant on Decent Dylan to win.

hes playing 25.1 mpg this season with many examples in the 30+ range - the more opportunities the more the impact both ways...he just sucks at offense so over time thats what sticks out, part of that like you said is playing time.

97cats wrote:

Chicat wrote:

Alieberman wrote:He's consistent ... I'll give him that.

The thing about this team though is that when Dylan is struggling, this team struggles.

We need decent Dylan to win. Doesn't have to be great.... just decent.

Feels like that’s because of playing time.

Play him less and we won’t be so reliant on Decent Dylan to win.

hes playing 25.1 mpg this season with many examples in the 30+ range - the more opportunities the more the impact both ways...he just sucks at offense so over time thats what sticks out, part of that like you said is playing time.

I agree he should be playing fewer minutes. Unfortunately his coach doesn't agree

Well Dylan played limited minutes last night due to fouls and I thought our offense was better for it. I think our best shot at a final 4 is out scoring other teams and Dylan is negative on that end of the floor. I think he should get the Jeter treatment. We'd be better off imo.

Lando05 wrote:Well Dylan played limited minutes last night due to fouls and I thought our offense was better for it. I think our best shot at a final 4 is out scoring other teams and Dylan is negative on that end of the floor. I think he should get the Jeter treatment. We'd be better off imo.

This is why every time we get called for a foul, I'm hoping it's against Dylan.

He'd be most valuable shooting FTs for our opponents.

Unfortunately there are no stats for low basketball IQ in taking shots where you should not be taking shots.

The stat I would be most interested in is the fast break points by the opponents on a missed 3 point shot by Smith with no rebounders in position. 5 point turnaround, good as a turnover.

I noticed that the other guards have really picked up their defense too, esp. Mannion, so it's not like Smith is the only good defender out there.

What merkin said...sometimes good defense IS good offense. A rushed poor shot is probably as bad or worse than a blown defense assignment.

But coach loves him so Dylan Smith, so DWWD.

dovecanyoncat wrote:He'd be most valuable shooting FTs for our opponents.

Especially the front end of a 1-and-1 in the 2nd half.

I think the entering the year the coaching staff would have envisioned Smith playing 25 minutes would be a best case scenario because it would have been interpreted he is playing his best basketball ever. Many of those 25 minutes were meant for Doutrive.

I think on paper our best backcourt is Mannion, Baker, and Green. Disappointingly, Green has quite a few stinkers like Smith.

What defender do we have that can replace Dylan? We need someone with length to defend the perimeter from 3 point shots, I don't see anyone else eligible on this team for that assignment...

Until you show me someone better your point is moot.

CatFanOneMil wrote:What defender do we have that can replace Dylan? We need someone with length to defend the perimeter from 3 point shots, I don't see anyone else eligible on this team for that assignment...

Until you show me someone better your point is moot.

Dylan can't even guard them. It's a myth that Dylan Smith is a good defender.

Being a good defender and being our best option for 6’6-6’8” perimeter players are different things

CatFanOneMil wrote:What defender do we have that can replace Dylan? We need someone with length to defend the perimeter from 3 point shots, I don't see anyone else eligible on this team for that assignment...

Until you show me someone better your point is moot.

I don’t see Baker as a huge downgrade on defense but I do see him as a significant upgrade on offense. Give him 8 to 10 minutes of Dylan’s playing time.

Chicat wrote:

CatFanOneMil wrote:What defender do we have that can replace Dylan? We need someone with length to defend the perimeter from 3 point shots, I don't see anyone else eligible on this team for that assignment...

Until you show me someone better your point is moot.

I don’t see Baker as a huge downgrade on defense but I do see him as a significant upgrade on offense. Give him 8 to 10 minutes of Dylan’s playing time.

This is what I would like to see as well.

No idea if BWill could play but I just wonder if he could come back and play 10-15 minutes a game in the PAC and NCAA tourney.

azcat49 wrote:No idea if BWill could play but I just wonder if he could come back and play 10-15 minutes a game in the PAC and NCAA tourney.

It's a good thing you didn't post that in the "Realistic Thoughts" thread.

Besides blow his redshirt season, if he can come back at all.

Dylan Smith: his offensive struggles have been addressed. His defense doesn't show up in the box score -- but he's arguably Arizona's best perimeter defender aside from Josh Green because of his length. Tres Tinkle didn't score or have a rebound in the first 7 minutes last night.
My preference is to slightly reduce Dylan's minutes. Offensively, he needs to be aware that taking a shot, any shot, with more than :10 on the shot clock isn't ideal. He's hitting just 33% FGs in conference play. That's 2 & 3 pointers. Any shot he takes early in the shot clock represents a lost opportunity cost. Would you rather Smith take an open three pointer at 32% or try again to get the ball inside to Zeke where he can get a high percentage look or even get to the foul line? Smith taking jumpers later in the shot clock isn't terrible. But we need to exhaust other opportunities before that's even an option.

Chicat wrote:

CatFanOneMil wrote:What defender do we have that can replace Dylan? We need someone with length to defend the perimeter from 3 point shots, I don't see anyone else eligible on this team for that assignment...

Until you show me someone better your point is moot.

I don’t see Baker as a huge downgrade on defense but I do see him as a significant upgrade on offense. Give him 8 to 10 minutes of Dylan’s playing time.

I've watched guys blow past Baker more than I've watched guys blow past Dylan...there's a reason Miller starts Dylan over Baker...

Doutrive’s progression from freshman to sophomore would’ve mitigated a lot of the problems with Smith on offense and defense. He was more of an offensive threat, which I think would’ve freed up space for Zeke, Nico and Josh.

Alieberman wrote:

azcat49 wrote:No idea if BWill could play but I just wonder if he could come back and play 10-15 minutes a game in the PAC and NCAA tourney.

It's a good thing you didn't post that in the "Realistic Thoughts" thread.

just doing some day dreaming this morning

azcat49 wrote:

Alieberman wrote:

azcat49 wrote:No idea if BWill could play but I just wonder if he could come back and play 10-15 minutes a game in the PAC and NCAA tourney.

It's a good thing you didn't post that in the "Realistic Thoughts" thread.

just doing some day dreaming this morning

Day Dreaming or Day Drinking!!!!!

Haha. Thanks to such a late game I won’t start until much later but I was probably hungover this morning LOL. Oh and thx for talking me off the ledge in the game thread Thursday Ari. Needed that perspective you provided. I am a mess watching us play

CatFanOneMil wrote:I've watched guys blow past Baker more than I've watched guys blow past Dylan...there's a reason Miller starts Dylan over Baker...

first, Smith is an average defender, let’s take a step back and call him what he is. he is not elite defensively or even a plus defender.

Now, independent of what Baker is or isn’t as a defender - it’s the deficiency in the remainder of Smiths game that make him inadequate over the course of 25+ mins a game, his average defense doesn’t make up for the obvious inadequacies and holes throughout the balance of his game.

if folks including yourself, and as reflected in playing time from miller as well, suggest the alternatives are worse than a shitty smith than is a different point altogether.

arguing there isn’t a better option as a reason to go with shit isn’t a good business plan.

that’s on Sean Miller, not the player and or players who are asked to play and perform in roles outside their capacity, but Miller has shown a tendency to stick with crap over the years and ride it out even in the face of all the dirty smells.

through the end of the season will be no different, as, according to you and maybe Miller, there is no better alternative than the shitty Smith because he can defend at an average level, which is better than the alternative.

frustrating

97cats wrote:. . . but Miller has shown a tendency to stick with crap over the years and ride it out even in the face of all the dirty smells.

frustrating

Just like he did with Jeter. Wait, what? That doesn’t fit the narrative? Nevermind. Frustrating. DWWD.

ByJoveByJingle wrote:

97cats wrote:. . . but Miller has shown a tendency to stick with crap over the years and ride it out even in the face of all the dirty smells.

frustrating

Just like he did with Jeter. Wait, what? That doesn’t fit the narrative? Nevermind. Frustrating. DWWD.

This did actually take an injury to Jeter to prove this to Miller.

and it was Jeter who pulled himself out and continued to hold himself out with his ‘injury’ and Miller finally had enough, even after sticking with CJ longer than he ever should ...but, typical response from BJBJ.

It seems in years past you would reward the guy who stayed with the program and developed but today the only ones who stick around are the guys who can’t make it in the league.

Then you think well you can reward them with starts but situationally you will have the “other” guy in at crunch time but to me, only at Washington can I remember that happening and that was an easy choice because Baker was killing it.

There are just so many more dynamics that 97 knows that we don’t where you have to think about PJC, Smith and a few others and you just scratch your head

Watch DS go for 25 tonight.

We DWWD to help motivate the young man

azgreg wrote:Watch DS go for 25 tonight.

he’s certainly due - Smith has had every opportunity to be more than just an average defender

azgreg wrote:Watch DS go for 25 tonight.

Combined missed shots + turnovers???

Seriously, Miller should have reduced his minutes months ago in favor of Baker.

Either way I'll be in Mckale tonight cheering him on.

97cats wrote:

CatFanOneMil wrote:I've watched guys blow past Baker more than I've watched guys blow past Dylan...there's a reason Miller starts Dylan over Baker...

first, Smith is an average defender, let’s take a step back and call him what he is. he is not elite defensively or even a plus defender.

Now, independent of what Baker is or isn’t as a defender - it’s the deficiency in the remainder of Smiths game that make him inadequate over the course of 25+ mins a game, his average defense doesn’t make up for the obvious inadequacies and holes throughout the balance of his game.

if folks including yourself, and as reflected in playing time from miller as well, suggest the alternatives are worse than a shitty smith than is a different point altogether.

arguing there isn’t a better option as a reason to go with shit isn’t a good business plan.

that’s on Sean Miller, not the player and or players who are asked to play and perform in roles outside their capacity, but Miller has shown a tendency to stick with crap over the years and ride it out even in the face of all the dirty smells.

through the end of the season will be no different, as, according to you and maybe Miller, there is no better alternative than the shitty Smith because he can defend at an average level, which is better than the alternative.

frustrating

But see this is where we have to take Miller at his word, two weeks ago when EVERYONE was shooting crap he said that when they ran shooting drills Dylan won all the competitions...what are you supposed to do as a coach when you set up drills to determine who the best shooters are, not use the guys that prove themselves in the drills and during practice?

Baker IS a better shooter, but Miller will always emphasis defense over offense...and apparently he see's something lacking in Bakers defense.

CatFanOneMil wrote:

97cats wrote:

CatFanOneMil wrote:I've watched guys blow past Baker more than I've watched guys blow past Dylan...there's a reason Miller starts Dylan over Baker...

first, Smith is an average defender, let’s take a step back and call him what he is. he is not elite defensively or even a plus defender.

Now, independent of what Baker is or isn’t as a defender - it’s the deficiency in the remainder of Smiths game that make him inadequate over the course of 25+ mins a game, his average defense doesn’t make up for the obvious inadequacies and holes throughout the balance of his game.

if folks including yourself, and as reflected in playing time from miller as well, suggest the alternatives are worse than a shitty smith than is a different point altogether.

arguing there isn’t a better option as a reason to go with shit isn’t a good business plan.

that’s on Sean Miller, not the player and or players who are asked to play and perform in roles outside their capacity, but Miller has shown a tendency to stick with crap over the years and ride it out even in the face of all the dirty smells.

through the end of the season will be no different, as, according to you and maybe Miller, there is no better alternative than the shitty Smith because he can defend at an average level, which is better than the alternative.

frustrating

But see this is where we have to take Miller at his word, two weeks ago when EVERYONE was shooting crap he said that when they ran shooting drills Dylan won all the competitions...what are you supposed to do as a coach when you set up drills to determine who the best shooters are, not use the guys that prove themselves in the drills and during practice?

Baker IS a better shooter, but Miller will always emphasis defense over offense...and apparently he see's something lacking in Bakers defense.

Dylan Smith is the anti- Nick Foles

You guys got me pulling for the kid tonight.

Two instructions for Smith tonight: play your ass off on defense. And don’t even consider shooting a jumper unless the shot clock is under 10 and you’re wide open. That’s it.

azgreg wrote:You guys got me pulling for the kid tonight.

Rooting for Dylan? The times they are a changing.

UAEebs86 wrote:

azgreg wrote:You guys got me pulling for the kid tonight.

Rooting for Dylan? The times they are a changing.

I'm a sucker for the underdog.

zonagrad wrote:Two instructions for Smith tonight: play your ass off on defense. And don’t even consider shooting a jumper unless the shot clock is under 10 and you’re wide open. That’s it.

Miller should implement Lute's 2 passes before you shoot rule. Shooting before your offense is ready to rebound is just as bad as a turnover.

He also needs to stop the heat check when he does make a shot.

97cats wrote:and it was Jeter who pulled himself out and continued to hold himself out with his ‘injury’ and Miller finally had enough, even after sticking with CJ longer than he ever should ...but, typical response from BJBJ.

You have to admit, all the ceaseless bitching and moaning about Miller does for this board what a pungent, cheesy fart does for a polite social gathering. No? In any case, bad smells aside, there is more often than not a bad case of confirmation bias going around. People see that which supports their desperately held opinions and discard all other information. DWWD. Miller doesn’t let his players run. Except when he has a point guard and a small forward capable of leading a fast paced offense. Miller holds his players back. Except he doesn’t hold Smith or Mannion back enough—what would Lute have done with Mannion against Gonzaga? I have no idea, but nothing would have surprised me. Miller won’t change defenses. Except he’s run zone all year. Etc, etc. I don’t think the guy is basketball Jesus. But he’s proven himself at two schools and has been one of the most successful coaches of the last decade. So while I get frustrated at times, I don’t see every missed last possession shot as an indictment of his coaching ability. And mostly I wish you lactose intolerant fans would stop eating cheese at the dinner party.