Tommy Lloyd

[Merkin]

And yet Lute never cursed. You can command respect and authority without swearing.

Lute had KO to do all his swearing for him. My dad used to go some of the practices when they were open and could not believe the filth coming out of KO's mouth, even using the N word.

Not sure how St. Lute put up with it. I remember Lute used to do some pro bono radio commercials for some Christian station.

[Longhorned]

And yet Lute never cursed. You can command respect and authority without swearing.

Lute had KO to do all his swearing for him. My dad used to go some of the practices when they were open and could not believe the filth coming out of KO's mouth, even using the N word.

Not sure how St. Lute put up with it. I remember Lute used to do some pro bono radio commercials for some Christian station.

I'm sure Fred Rogers encountered his fair share of brutal language in his Pittsburg studio. I mean, were all the cameramen and set builders angelic beings from rural Ohio?

[Chicat]

And yet Lute never cursed. You can command respect and authority without swearing.

Lute never cursing is one of those urban myths like if you flash your lights at Bobby Hurley late at night when he doesn't have his lights on he'll follow you home and kill you in your sleep.

[Olsondogg]

Tommy better realize how good Mathurin is and do anything to keep him in Tucson.

[YoDeFoe]

Tommy better realize how good Mathurin is and do anything to keep him in Tucson.

He never entered the portal, he told Ballo on his IG announcement that he was ready to get to work, and he was at the first practice. Benn is a Wildcat.

[zonagrad]

And yet Lute never cursed. You can command respect and authority without swearing.

Lute could command respect and authority because 1) he was literally Lute Olson, and 2) people don't swear to command respect and authority. Adia Barnes didn't swear at the end of UCONN to command respect and authority. It's something that has a different set of uses.

Lute never swore -- long before his national title and five final fours. He ran Wayne Womack out of practice because of continued bad language.
And I agree -- I'm not saying swearing is a necessity or not. Some people utilize -- others do not, ever. And that's fine. Sometimes people need a kick in the ass and other times they need a pat on the back. Leadership comes in many forms.

[Olsondogg]

Tommy better realize how good Mathurin is and do anything to keep him in Tucson.

He never entered the portal, he told Ballo on his IG announcement that he was ready to get to work, and he was at the first practice. Benn is a Wildcat.

All true.

But I will be relieved when I see him run out of the tunnel.

I don’t know if I’ve been more excited for a players sophomore year since Dwill. Maybe RHJ was close, but Mathurin is a legit star in the making.

[Spaceman Spiff]

And yet Lute never cursed. You can command respect and authority without swearing.

Lute never cursing is one of those urban myths like if you flash your lights at Bobby Hurley late at night when he doesn't have his lights on he'll follow you home and kill you in your sleep.

I've always figured saying Lute didn't swear is operating on a sliding scale for basketball coaches. Like if you average fewer than 5 f***'s a minute, you don't swear.

It's like chemical analysis thresholds. Under a certain limit and you just count it as unreportable.

[PieceOfMeat]

And yet Lute never cursed. You can command respect and authority without swearing.

Lute never cursing is one of those urban myths like if you flash your lights at Bobby Hurley late at night when he doesn't have his lights on he'll follow you home and kill you in your sleep.

There are only 2 urban myths I've believed in my life. Later I found out only 1 of them is true.
First myth: Lute Olson never swore(cursed, whatever your favorite term is here)
Second myth: Dont look in the mirror and say XXXXXXXX 5 times or else he'll appear and start making a mess.

[azgreg]

[UAEebs86]

CTL doing work.

[Merkin]

Second myth: Dont look in the mirror and say XXXXXXXX 5 times or else he'll appear and start making a mess.

Cripes. You just triggered a childhood memory from 50 years ago or so.

If you go into your bathroom, turn off the lights, hold a lit candle and say "I believe in Mary Worth" 3 times then the witch Bloody Mary will appear.

Still won't do it.

[Longhorned]

Second myth: Dont look in the mirror and say XXXXXXXX 5 times or else he'll appear and start making a mess.

Cripes. You just triggered a childhood memory from 50 years ago or so.

If you go into your bathroom, turn off the lights, hold a lit candle and say "I believe in Mary Worth" 3 times then the witch Bloody Mary will appear.

Still won't do it.

That one's actually true. If you try it, you'll die a bloody death alone in a dark bathroom.

[UAdevil]

Second myth: Dont look in the mirror and say XXXXXXXX 5 times or else he'll appear and start making a mess.

Cripes. You just triggered a childhood memory from 50 years ago or so.

If you go into your bathroom, turn off the lights, hold a lit candle and say "I believe in Mary Worth" 3 times then the witch Bloody Mary will appear.

Still won't do it.

That one's actually true. If you try it, you'll die a bloody death alone in a dark bathroom.

Is that unusual?

[AzCatFan2]

Good day for Arizona Basketball. Miller still got av raw deal, but JET staying on staff and Kerr coming back is big. Looks like we are keeping a lot of the core parts of the team many think has legit 2nd Tournament weekend potential.

And Lute swore, if you consider hell a swear. Now Jerry Kindall? Wouldn't even say hell. Heck was as far as he would go.

[Alieberman]

A new head basketball coach keeping 2 former assistants.... that never happens.... right?

I am shocked and really happy about this

[Spaceman Spiff]

A new head basketball coach keeping 2 former assistants.... that never happens.... right?

I am shocked and really happy about this

I'd assume some of it is most new head coaches don't inherit a top ten roster core to try to keep together.

JET probably doesn't have a ton of options after only one year, either. Murphy probably had some marketability, but I doubt JET had anything remotely comparable as an option.

The cynic in me laughs that we fired Miller and job 1 is retaining as much of what Miller put together as possible. That's my beef with Robbins, though, not Lloyd. Lloyd's making smart decisions which sort of tell you Miller's firing was more about Robbins ego than the strength of the program.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Second myth: Dont look in the mirror and say XXXXXXXX 5 times or else he'll appear and start making a mess.

Cripes. You just triggered a childhood memory from 50 years ago or so.

If you go into your bathroom, turn off the lights, hold a lit candle and say "I believe in Mary Worth" 3 times then the witch Bloody Mary will appear.

Still won't do it.

That one's actually true. If you try it, you'll die a bloody death alone in a dark bathroom.

Is that unusual?

Yes, I keep the lights on when I poop.

[Alieberman]

A new head basketball coach keeping 2 former assistants.... that never happens.... right?

I am shocked and really happy about this

I'd assume some of it is most new head coaches don't inherit a top ten roster core to try to keep together.

JET probably doesn't have a ton of options after only one year, either. Murphy probably had some marketability, but I doubt JET had anything remotely comparable as an option.

The cynic in me laughs that we fired Miller and job 1 is retaining as much of what Miller put together as possible. That's my beef with Robbins, though, not Lloyd. Lloyd's making smart decisions which sort of tell you Miller's firing was more about Robbins ego than the strength of the program.

I don't forgive Robbins for any of this but:

If Lloyd can continue this positive off-season which looked doomed to completely fall apart

AND

Has major success right away

I think many of us may start to feel a little relieved to have the weight lifted off our program's backs.... which has been very stressful over the last several years.

[Spaceman Spiff]

A new head basketball coach keeping 2 former assistants.... that never happens.... right?

I am shocked and really happy about this

I'd assume some of it is most new head coaches don't inherit a top ten roster core to try to keep together.

JET probably doesn't have a ton of options after only one year, either. Murphy probably had some marketability, but I doubt JET had anything remotely comparable as an option.

The cynic in me laughs that we fired Miller and job 1 is retaining as much of what Miller put together as possible. That's my beef with Robbins, though, not Lloyd. Lloyd's making smart decisions which sort of tell you Miller's firing was more about Robbins ego than the strength of the program.

I don't forgive Robbins for any of this but:

If Lloyd can continue this positive off-season which looked doomed to completely fall apart

AND

Has major success right away

I think many of us may start to feel a little relieved to have the weight lifted off our program's backs.... which has been very stressful over the last several years.

I don't mean any of this directed at Lloyd. There are two real sources of the weight. The NCAA investigation, which just is what it is and won't change or lift until the IARP is final.

The second is drama brought on by Robbins's ego. If he doesn't start his beef with Miller over ego, there's no top ten roster to fall apart, amd we'd just be at a point where we were on the brink of recovering from the FBI/ESPN fallout with a loaded roster of multiyear players.

Again, nothing directed at Lloyd. Lloyd just accepted an open position, he didn't force Robbins's ego to open the position up. I just see that second point...that pressure has lifted because Robbins doesn't have whatever ego battle going on that he did with Miller.

[Alieberman]

Right or wrong... Miller was a big part of the weight.

[DrWildcat]

A new head basketball coach keeping 2 former assistants.... that never happens.... right?

I am shocked and really happy about this

I'd assume some of it is most new head coaches don't inherit a top ten roster core to try to keep together.

JET probably doesn't have a ton of options after only one year, either. Murphy probably had some marketability, but I doubt JET had anything remotely comparable as an option.

The cynic in me laughs that we fired Miller and job 1 is retaining as much of what Miller put together as possible. That's my beef with Robbins, though, not Lloyd. Lloyd's making smart decisions which sort of tell you Miller's firing was more about Robbins ego than the strength of the program.

Well even those that disliked Miller will admit he brought in talent. So trying to keep the players was an easy decision. Supposedly Lloyd already knew Murphy so that was an easy decision. Terry is an alumni so it makes sense to keep him on to smooth the transition over. If he wasn't an alumni he wouldn't be retained IMO.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Right or wrong... Miller was a big part of the weight.

I think it's wrong. Look at Kansas. Self is implicated in way worse, they had a disappointing year and got nuked by SC in the tourney. Self got a lifetime contract, no weight.

I mean, name an FBI program that had the type of drama we did? Wade at LSU is in a news report making a "strong ass offer," no drama, he's their coach and doing fine.

The difference is all those other programs, which haven't had half the weight and drama, don't have Robert Robbins as president

[Catintheheat]

A new head basketball coach keeping 2 former assistants.... that never happens.... right?

I am shocked and really happy about this

I'd assume some of it is most new head coaches don't inherit a top ten roster core to try to keep together.

JET probably doesn't have a ton of options after only one year, either. Murphy probably had some marketability, but I doubt JET had anything remotely comparable as an option.

The cynic in me laughs that we fired Miller and job 1 is retaining as much of what Miller put together as possible. That's my beef with Robbins, though, not Lloyd. Lloyd's making smart decisions which sort of tell you Miller's firing was more about Robbins ego than the strength of the program.

Well even those that disliked Miller will admit he brought in talent. So trying to keep the players was an easy decision. Supposedly Lloyd already knew Murphy so that was an easy decision. Terry is an alumni so it makes sense to keep him on to smooth the transition over. If he wasn't an alumni he wouldn't be retained IMO.

I'm not so sure of that. For one I've seen JET on sports shows on television. I believe he is intelligent (and funny). Second, JET played in the NBA for more years than most NBA players. He has a lot of knowledge about the NBA. And third, I think he can learn a lot about coaching from CTL, and has learned some from CSM. My viewpoint is different about CTL than many others here. Sometimes head coaching experience isn't needed when the person taking charge didn't need it, or already had many head coaching duties already.

Mark my words, and I will eat crow if I am wrong. But CTL was ready to coach at a major college program. And in spite of Robbins, the Cats may have struck lighting twice when it comes to head coaches. CTL potential is that he may be the best young coach in the game. I am really excited to watch the Cats in the next few years. Really high expectations.

[TheGreatCatsby]

Ballo is going to score points for us, and think we've upgraded our interior significantly. Some of those plays he does look like baby Shaq when he's doing the pull up dunks. He was sitting behind a monster frontcourt at Gonzaga. I see him getting alot of playing time sooner than later.

I do like Koloko, but not so much his offensive development under Miller. Defensively he's improved alot. We'll see how he adjusts in the new offense with Lloyd.

Dylan Anderson a very intriguing prospect the following year as well, US big size player with a potential Euro game. Two great additions so far. And that coaching video already was pretty cool, that's the type of more relaxed air, smart yet determined coaching demeanor that I wish existed more when I grew up playing sports. Mathurin for that split second in the background with a I can't contain my smile this is gonna be sick look, hell ya I'm ready to make quick decisions.

[Longhorned]

Koloko's setback was not having weight training and coaching on footwork in the pandemic off-season. A skinny big man gets hurt by that more than anyone. He should have a much bigger jump this coming off-season.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Koloko's setback was not having weight training and coaching on footwork in the pandemic off-season. A skinny big man gets hurt by that more than anyone. He should have a much bigger jump this coming off-season.

Yes. He's new to basketball and Covid kept the staff from direct work with players.

Koloko is the last guy to ding for not progressing.

I don't really understand Catsby's comment about a monster frontcourt at Zaga. Timme was good. Watson was the only other 4/5 who got minutes and he was only a 18-19 mpg rotation guy. No other big got more than garbage time.

The Zags were loaded on the perimeter with Suggs, Kispert, Nembhard, Ayayi, Cook, Strawther and Harris. They had very little inside. If Ballo was ready, he could have gotten way, way more pt.

[YoDeFoe]

Right or wrong... Miller was a big part of the weight.

I think it's wrong. Look at Kansas. Self is implicated in way worse, they had a disappointing year and got nuked by SC in the tourney. Self got a lifetime contract, no weight.

I mean, name an FBI program that had the type of drama we did? Wade at LSU is in a news report making a "strong ass offer," no drama, he's their coach and doing fine.

The difference is all those other programs, which haven't had half the weight and drama, don't have Robert Robbins as president

This is the truth and there's nothing to change it.

[Olsondogg]

Right or wrong... Miller was a big part of the weight.

I think it's wrong. Look at Kansas. Self is implicated in way worse, they had a disappointing year and got nuked by SC in the tourney. Self got a lifetime contract, no weight.

I mean, name an FBI program that had the type of drama we did? Wade at LSU is in a news report making a "strong ass offer," no drama, he's their coach and doing fine.

The difference is all those other programs, which haven't had half the weight and drama, don't have Robert Robbins as president

All this coupled with the constant negative media attention doomed Miller.

[U.P. Zona Fan]

Second myth: Dont look in the mirror and say XXXXXXXX 5 times or else he'll appear and start making a mess.

Cripes. You just triggered a childhood memory from 50 years ago or so.

If you go into your bathroom, turn off the lights, hold a lit candle and say "I believe in Mary Worth" 3 times then the witch Bloody Mary will appear.

Still won't do it.

That one's actually true. If you try it, you'll die a bloody death alone in a dark bathroom.

Is that unusual?

Only way to avoid it is to wedge yourself between the toilet and the wall. Then I think she laughs at you and leaves when you call 911. She really just hates medics.

[U.P. Zona Fan]

Right or wrong... Miller was a big part of the weight.

I think it's wrong. Look at Kansas. Self is implicated in way worse, they had a disappointing year and got nuked by SC in the tourney. Self got a lifetime contract, no weight.

I mean, name an FBI program that had the type of drama we did? Wade at LSU is in a news report making a "strong ass offer," no drama, he's their coach and doing fine.

The difference is all those other programs, which haven't had half the weight and drama, don't have Robert Robbins as president

Yeah but was the administration implicated in those cases?

[Alieberman]

Right or wrong... Miller was a big part of the weight.

I think it's wrong. Look at Kansas. Self is implicated in way worse, they had a disappointing year and got nuked by SC in the tourney. Self got a lifetime contract, no weight.

I mean, name an FBI program that had the type of drama we did? Wade at LSU is in a news report making a "strong ass offer," no drama, he's their coach and doing fine.

The difference is all those other programs, which haven't had half the weight and drama, don't have Robert Robbins as president

What I'm saying is that the truth hasn't mattered on this for a long time now. You poll most average college basketball fans and they "know" Miller is dirty and he paid Ayton like a million bucks to come to AZ. We can all scream to the top of our lungs that this is bullshit but nobody will listen. This sucks.... but it's reality.

If Lloyd is successful, that's a huge burden off this program.

[HiCat]

Lloyd has a visit with TyTy this afternoon. My buddy coaches in the valley and says Arizona is very much in play from what he’s hearing.

Arizona: “It’s my hometown; only like an hour and a half away from home, and I speak to Coach Tommy Lloyd at least twice a day on FaceTime. He’s really coming hard and letting me know that he wants me to come there and be the point guard. He’s really passionate. Just seeing how they ran the offense at Gonzaga and how free flowing it was is attractive to me. I love the way he used Jalen Suggs because me and Jalen have a lot of similarities in our games.”

https://www.si.com/college/recruiting/b ... wn-top-six

Come on down and join the Wildcat family.. you'll love hooping at McKale!

[UAEebs86]

Get him to a pool party!

[Spaceman Spiff]

Right or wrong... Miller was a big part of the weight.

I think it's wrong. Look at Kansas. Self is implicated in way worse, they had a disappointing year and got nuked by SC in the tourney. Self got a lifetime contract, no weight.

I mean, name an FBI program that had the type of drama we did? Wade at LSU is in a news report making a "strong ass offer," no drama, he's their coach and doing fine.

The difference is all those other programs, which haven't had half the weight and drama, don't have Robert Robbins as president

What I'm saying is that the truth hasn't mattered on this for a long time now. You poll most average college basketball fans and they "know" Miller is dirty and he paid Ayton like a million bucks to come to AZ. We can all scream to the top of our lungs that this is bullshit but nobody will listen. This sucks.... but it's reality.

If Lloyd is successful, that's a huge burden off this program.

I used Kansas and LSU intentionally. They both got some very negative stories about them when the trial and the Wade story broke.

Their administrations finished internal investigations, moved forwards and realized if you don't fire the coach, you support him to rebuild from any damage. Robbins clearly never did that.

Bottom line, I don't see why it's necessary to give a shit about what a casual CBB fan in New York thinks. Oh no, they'll think Arizona's dirty! I just don't understand why that matters. The reality is everyone is dirty, including Lloyd. We're currently rooting for getting Tyty, whose recruitment has a zillion red flags for money all over the place.

It's just very weird to me to act like we should be picking program direction based on the (founded or unfounded) belief systems of average college basketball fans. Ultimately, why do Arizona fans care what non-Arizona fans think?

I read LSU's board sometimes. The fans there accuse Alabama of giving football players Dodge Challengers all the time. Alabama fans don't care. To me that's far healthier than the Arizona attitude of caring to placate other fans.

[TheCat]

Right or wrong... Miller was a big part of the weight.

I think it's wrong. Look at Kansas. Self is implicated in way worse, they had a disappointing year and got nuked by SC in the tourney. Self got a lifetime contract, no weight.

I mean, name an FBI program that had the type of drama we did? Wade at LSU is in a news report making a "strong ass offer," no drama, he's their coach and doing fine.

The difference is all those other programs, which haven't had half the weight and drama, don't have Robert Robbins as president

I think the lifetime contract for Self is a good distraction that actually limited the liability for Kansas. Do you know what Self gets for termination "without cause"? One years pay. That is 1/10 of Cal at Kentucky and much less than most coaches contracts. Let that settle in. You can be fired at anytime if the administration does not like the color of your socks and you get one year's pay. Ever seen that before? I haven't. If Self is given any show of cause penalty or banned from the tourney for any significant time they just fire Self without cause. It is a huge PR get from Kansas perspective while protecting the University. The U of A could have done similar. My question around Miller is the previous contract clause that he will forfeit or pay the University $1M if convicted of any level 1 infraction still viable. I assume NO. The U of A was just stupid and could have protected the University and still show support for Miller.

There is only one reason Miller was terminated in my opinion and that is ESPN and specifically Dick Vitale. Bad PR. If you look at a timeline this really ramped up around when the NOA was released publicly. Vitale went on twitter to criticize the "once proud University" and its administration (Robbins ego)for not taking action. During this same time he made an agreement with Wade not to mention the case against them. If Arizona was allowed to exist in the same bubble as Kansas, Miller would still be the coach. Dick Vitale and ESPN were never held accountable for the erroneous statement that Miller paid Ayton $100K to play at Arizona. They backed that up with a constant drip drip drip. No other University faced that onslaught of negative press. No other coach was dogged on college game day saying he should never coach again. They cast that dye in my opinion and quite frankly they can because they are the "KING OF SPORTS".

[Longhorned]

I don't know, Spiff, I hate wearing Arizona gear and some random person says our coach is a cheater, and then any mention of facts only adds up to the accusation that I'm in denial. Or hearing coworkers cite our cheating program in connection with actually legitimate gripes about other things on campus. It may not matter for recruiting and scoreboard, but being a fan was a lot easier before 2017, and I feel like it's starting to get easier again.

[EastCoastCat]

I wear my gear back here and get asked if the A stands for Alabama.

So I get hated on for other reasons.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I don't know, Spiff, I hate wearing Arizona gear and some random person says our coach is a cheater, and then any mention of facts only adds up to the accusation that I'm in denial. Or hearing coworkers cite our cheating program in connection with actually legitimate gripes about other things on campus. It may not matter for recruiting and scoreboard, but being a fan was a lot easier before 2017, and I feel like it's starting to get easier again.

I'll be honest, I sort of enjoy it.

It's fun to respond that it sure would be awful if young black men received monetary compensation for being very talented. Isn't America based in the idea that the labor of young black men should result in money going into the pockets of middle aged white guys?

Then I play them this clip:

https://youtu.be/61TMtH3Qw4s

See, I think the key for me is I truly think it's awesome that players can get money. The NCAA generated over 800 million profit on the 2019 Tourney. I'm happy some players get a cut and not all the money goes to coaches and administrators. I enjoy making that argument to people and making them defend why...uhh, student athletes is the term, I guess, shouldn't be able to even control their own likenesses.

[zonagrad]

Right or wrong... Miller was a big part of the weight.

I think it's wrong. Look at Kansas. Self is implicated in way worse, they had a disappointing year and got nuked by SC in the tourney. Self got a lifetime contract, no weight.

I mean, name an FBI program that had the type of drama we did? Wade at LSU is in a news report making a "strong ass offer," no drama, he's their coach and doing fine.

The difference is all those other programs, which haven't had half the weight and drama, don't have Robert Robbins as president

I think the lifetime contract for Self is a good distraction that actually limited the liability for Kansas. Do you know what Self gets for termination "without cause"? One years pay. That is 1/10 of Cal at Kentucky and much less than most coaches contracts. Let that settle in. You can be fired at anytime if the administration does not like the color of your socks and you get one year's pay. Ever seen that before? I haven't. If Self is given any show of cause penalty or banned from the tourney for any significant time they just fire Self without cause. It is a huge PR get from Kansas perspective while protecting the University. The U of A could have done similar. My question around Miller is the previous contract clause that he will forfeit or pay the University $1M if convicted of any level 1 infraction still viable. I assume NO. The U of A was just stupid and could have protected the University and still show support for Miller.

There is only one reason Miller was terminated in my opinion and that is ESPN and specifically Dick Vitale. Bad PR. If you look at a timeline this really ramped up around when the NOA was released publicly. Vitale went on twitter to criticize the "once proud University" and its administration (Robbins ego)for not taking action. During this same time he made an agreement with Wade not to mention the case against them. If Arizona was allowed to exist in the same bubble as Kansas, Miller would still be the coach. Dick Vitale and ESPN were never held accountable for the erroneous statement that Miller paid Ayton $100K to play at Arizona. They backed that up with a constant drip drip drip. No other University faced that onslaught of negative press. No other coach was dogged on college game day saying he should never coach again. They cast that dye in my opinion and quite frankly they can because they are the "KING OF SPORTS".

And if this is so, then Robbins took the easy way out and offered up Miller as a sacrificial lamb to the Mother Ship. The other choice was to double down and really go after ESPN, Vitale and Bilas, etc... in a very public way -- a news conference type way where you invite all the networks about a "major announcement involving the Arizona basketball program" and you let the speculation build. And then call Vitale, ESPN, etc... a bunch of liars. You make the rounds on any network, any outlet, any magazine or paper and call out the hypocrisy involving ESPN and other blue blood programs. Robbins would be a hero for life on campus. Instead, he chose the cowardly route and pitched Miller to the curb when it was convenient. It was a business decision. It was the easy choice -- and in the long run it may turn out to be the right choice.

[RondaeShimmy]

Miller should've been fired just for having an assistant doing shady shit.

Ultimately responsibility falls on him no matter what, and add to that the PGU book stuff and the case gets harder to defend because Miller kept him on.

The ESPN stuff just gave Arizona some martyrdom by focusing on a horrendously wrong article while ignoring the rest.

Ultimately moving was the right thing to do (Robbins did it horribly admittedly) and the only way to get the stain off the program. It should've happened in 2017 and every year they didn't do it it dragged things down and added a horrible sense of dread and uncertainty and stain on the program.

It didn't make sense to let things play out over so long of a time, because they were going to inevitably reach the same conclusion, Miller had to go, the sooner the better, the sooner you could move on.

[Longhorned]

I don't know, Spiff, I hate wearing Arizona gear and some random person says our coach is a cheater, and then any mention of facts only adds up to the accusation that I'm in denial. Or hearing coworkers cite our cheating program in connection with actually legitimate gripes about other things on campus. It may not matter for recruiting and scoreboard, but being a fan was a lot easier before 2017, and I feel like it's starting to get easier again.

I'll be honest, I sort of enjoy it.

It's fun to respond that it sure would be awful if young black men received monetary compensation for being very talented. Isn't America based in the idea that the labor of young black men should result in money going into the pockets of middle aged white guys?

Then I play them this clip:

https://youtu.be/61TMtH3Qw4s

See, I think the key for me is I truly think it's awesome that players can get money. The NCAA generated over 800 million profit on the 2019 Tourney. I'm happy some players get a cut and not all the money goes to coaches and administrators. I enjoy making that argument to people and making them defend why...uhh, student athletes is the term, I guess, shouldn't be able to even control their own likenesses.

That's actually a damn good response. I'll steal it.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I don't know, Spiff, I hate wearing Arizona gear and some random person says our coach is a cheater, and then any mention of facts only adds up to the accusation that I'm in denial. Or hearing coworkers cite our cheating program in connection with actually legitimate gripes about other things on campus. It may not matter for recruiting and scoreboard, but being a fan was a lot easier before 2017, and I feel like it's starting to get easier again.

I'll be honest, I sort of enjoy it.

It's fun to respond that it sure would be awful if young black men received monetary compensation for being very talented. Isn't America based in the idea that the labor of young black men should result in money going into the pockets of middle aged white guys?

Then I play them this clip:

https://youtu.be/61TMtH3Qw4s

See, I think the key for me is I truly think it's awesome that players can get money. The NCAA generated over 800 million profit on the 2019 Tourney. I'm happy some players get a cut and not all the money goes to coaches and administrators. I enjoy making that argument to people and making them defend why...uhh, student athletes is the term, I guess, shouldn't be able to even control their own likenesses.

That's actually a damn good response. I'll steal it.

It is 100% my view of this.

Deandre Ayton is a supremely talented young, black male. Mark Emmert is a middle aged, white administrator. When people allege Ayton got money directly for his talent instead of having to accept whatever scraps Emmert feels he should get...THE HORROR!!!!!!

Shoot, I always thought the saddest part of ESPN's story on Ayton was that it was only supposed to be 100k. That dude's way more than a 100k talent.

Cartman's student athlete monologue is the best satire I've ever seen about the NCAA.

[azpatnca]

If there had never been an ESPN article claiming Ayton was paid I probably would have been more willing to support firing Miller earlier. If there had been no false allegations against Miller and it was only the Book/Agent funneling scandal, and the AD said, "taking money to recommend an agent to student athletes is a violation of their trust and that ultimately falls on the head coach" I'd have understood it.

We'd have fired Miller, someone good would have snatched him up, and I'd probably have been pissed seeing him take UW to the final four or whatever.

But I'd have been less of a defender on the internet. The problem was ESPN lied, then doubled down, and whenever Miller came up, even today, someone says he paid Ayton 100k of Adidas money to go to a Nike school and I can't let that shit go.

If one person out there wants to make a case for firing Miller based on institutional control and the things he actually did, I'll probably have no response because I've only ever had to reply to the fake espn attack.

[azpatnca]

By the by, can you believe we kept Kerr and Terry!! That's awesome. Good job ACL.

[zonagrad]

Miller should've been fired just for having an assistant doing shady shit.

Ultimately responsibility falls on him no matter what, and add to that the PGU book stuff and the case gets harder to defend because Miller kept him on.

The ESPN stuff just gave Arizona some martyrdom by focusing on a horrendously wrong article while ignoring the rest.

Ultimately moving was the right thing to do (Robbins did it horribly admittedly) and the only way to get the stain off the program. It should've happened in 2017 and every year they didn't do it it dragged things down and added a horrible sense of dread and uncertainty and stain on the program.

It didn't make sense to let things play out over so long of a time, because they were going to inevitably reach the same conclusion, Miller had to go, the sooner the better, the sooner you could move on.

And you are aware that Book had a substance abuse problem tied to that issue and is also a minority? Because if Miller had fired him a few years back -- there's a reasonable chance that the school would've been dealing with a lawsuit. And how are you sure Miller didn't want to part ways with Book but was pressured to keep him on because of the reasons stated above? You don't know. And those are very real possibilities.

The irony is, Greg Hansen criticized Sean Miller because Book Richardson did NOT get a raise a few years ago and was at the time the lowest paid assistant. Hansen implied that Miller was treating him poorly when in fact Book was lucky as fuck to still have a job.

Hindsight is always 20/20.

[Beachcat97]

By the by, can you believe we kept Kerr and Terry!! That's awesome. Good job ACL.

Absolutely. I've gotten behind with this conversation about the politics of Miller's firing but am impressed by how well some in this thread have followed and understood it.

It's been a rough week, and I just don't have the bandwidth to wade into this discussion of Robbins, the ABOR, UofA faculty, etc. Props to those who do.

And congrats to CTL for a big week.

[U.P. Zona Fan]

I don't know, Spiff, I hate wearing Arizona gear and some random person says our coach is a cheater, and then any mention of facts only adds up to the accusation that I'm in denial. Or hearing coworkers cite our cheating program in connection with actually legitimate gripes about other things on campus. It may not matter for recruiting and scoreboard, but being a fan was a lot easier before 2017, and I feel like it's starting to get easier again.

I wear my arizona gear up here and people don't say anything, they don't know the stories because this is Packer country. Packer fans are nuts!!!

I had someone ask me why I wear a fitted hat with an embroidered monogram on it (last name starts with A)

The only people that know are 1/3 of the snowbirds and my friends. I actually have a friend up here that has a son on the Tucson fire department.

[Spaceman Spiff]

And you are aware that Book had a substance abuse problem tied to that issue and is also a minority? Because if Miller had fired him a few years back -- there's a reasonable chance that the school would've been dealing with a lawsuit. And how are you sure Miller didn't want to part ways with Book but was pressured to keep him on because of the reasons stated above? You don't know. And those are very real possibilities.

The irony is, Greg Hansen criticized Sean Miller because Book Richardson did NOT get a raise a few years ago and was at the time the lowest paid assistant. Hansen implied that Miller was treating him poorly when in fact Book was lucky as fuck to still have a job.

Hindsight is always 20/20.

Here's the only thing I think that needs to be said about hindsight.

https://www.wildcat.arizona.edu/article ... ting-trail

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4052&p=218014&hilit ... on#p218014

[mofo]

I wear my arizona gear up here and people don't say anything, they don't know the stories because this is Packer country. Packer fans are nuts!!!

Didn't know the UP was Packer country. My fam is from MI (Bay City area) and I've been fishing in the UP a few times years ago, usually listening to the requisite Da Yoopers along the way. I guess I assumed yoopers would be Lions fans, but much easier to be a Packers fan. What about NBA and MLB teams?