Bear Down Wildcats

If Tommy wins tonight he will tie for the most wins by a head coach in there first 3 years. Wish he had the Oregon State game back so it would be his record alone.

TheCat wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 2:30 pm If Tommy wins tonight he will tie for the most wins by a head coach in there first 3 years. Wish he had the Oregon State game back so it would be his record alone.

Get to the Final Four and it will be his all alone.

I thought Tommy got over the adjustment hump during the Dayton game. When they were killing it with the pick and roll and he pulled Omar and went small.

Not sure why he didn’t call a TO when the players were jacking up 3s when it was double bonus. Set them straight.

Overall I’m super glad he’s our coach. But we have definitely acquired the reputation of underperforming as a top two seeds. The media can’t stop talking about how Cats lost as a top 2 seed three seasons in a row.

Frankly I thought we were over seeded this year. We got the 2 based on early season success against highly ranked opponents. Team faded down the stretch and that should have factored in more.

I want to go on the record with a couple of, for me, non-negotiable statements about CTL

• Arizona is lucky to have CTL as our coach - he is an excellent players' coach

• CTL has done well replacing lost players, replacing lost scoring, and building team togetherness

• Over-emphasis upon performance in a single-elimination tournament, and under-appreciation of regular season performance, should NOT be the measure of a college basketball coach.

• IMNSHO, there is absolutely no justification possible, nor should there be any toleration whatsoever, for suggesting anything other than 100% support for CTL as Arizona's head coach.

I think the basketball public and most fans do not recognize how hard this tournament is. One example is it has been 19 years since Illinois has been in an Elite eight. We'll get there. Only two teams have made it to the sweet 16 more than Arizona in the last 3 years.... Only two.. Houston and the Zags.

So was just going down the rabbit hole and crunched numbers on how many seasons it took each coach to get to their first final four (at a P5, the numbers get a little skewed if you start from when they first started coaching D1 ball):

Bob Knight: 2 (Ind)
Calipari: 2 (UK)
Roy: 3 (KU)
Lute (AZ) / Hurley (UConn) / Izzo (MSU): 5
Coach K (Duke) / Dean Smith (UNC): 6
Self (Ill/KU) / Jay Wright (Nova): 8
Boeheim (Cuse): 11
Calhoun (UConn): 13
Wooden (UCLA): 14
Painter (Purdue): 19

Average # of seasons til first final four: ~7.5

Other notes: didn’t add mark few (been at a non P5 obviously: 18 seasons to first final four. Adding him to the mix only moves the average up half a year to just over 8 seasons on average until a coaches first FF.


Yes of course there’s discrepancies with some coaches getting their first FF pre 1985 expansion (Wooden), or their first FF being at a non P5 (Calipari, vacated, and Few), but the point was just to show that CTL has time, only having finished year 3 as a D1 coach of course. Just a little perspective.

^^^ Lute got one at Iowa

Lute made the F4 in his 6th year at Iowa.

This will go down a deep rabbit hole, but would be interesting to see what kind of situations the coaches came into which most certainly affects the first season.

We are all familiar with Lute. Lute took over a team that was 4-24. Lute went 11-17 his first season with a slow unathletic white point guard with very little offers, then 21-10 the next, and into the NCAA tourney.

Tommy took over a much better team, one that was 17-11 during Miller's last season, who like most coaches, was not fired due to on court performance or moved on to a better position. Tommy's team with 3 NBA players went 33-4.

Just looking at a few others, Bob Knight took over a team that was 17-7.
Calipari took over a 22-14 team.
Roy Williams - 27-11
K - 24-9
Bill Self - 30-8
Calhoun - 12-16

And so on. Just an eyeball test, but those going into programs which were already successful made the F4 quicker.

TheCat wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2024 7:25 am I think the basketball public and most fans do not recognize how hard this tournament is. One example is it has been 19 years since Illinois has been in an Elite eight. We'll get there. Only two teams have made it to the sweet 16 more than Arizona in the last 3 years.... Only two.. Houston and the Zags.

The tournament was originally a "reward" for conference champions and exceptional seasons from non-conference teams. The losers in the Final Four (which wasn't called "The Final Four") played a consolation game (same in Regional finals).

In many years the NIT was a more highly regarded tournament.

A 68-game, single elimination tournament is an entirely different beast - but it is one of the most lucrative sporting events - it's a TV entertainment creation moreso than a sports championship

Tommy's not leaving for Kentucky, right?

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 1:23 pm Tommy's not leaving for Kentucky, right?

Got mixed messages on that yesterday which is to say that I am clueless on that right now.

Winger wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 2:08 pm

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 1:23 pm Tommy's not leaving for Kentucky, right?

Got mixed messages on that yesterday which is to say that I am clueless on that right now.

I would be astonished by this. With all due respect to Coach Lloyd, he hasn't exactly built the kind of resume (yet) that Kentucky has come to expect in its coaching candidates.

If Lloyd were actually offered the job, I think he's gone, and I also think it's because UK got rejected by multiple others first.

If the team made F4 then I can see Kentucky being very interested. But without tourney success, and every season losing to a lower seed, can’t see it. That was the key frustration with Calipari.

Plus his post defeat pressers will drive Kentucky fans insane. Aw shucks won’t work for them.

Djcat wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 2:35 pm If the team made F4 then I can see Kentucky being very interested. But without tourney success, and every season losing to a lower seed, can’t see it. That was the key frustration with Calipari.

Plus his post defeat pressers will drive Kentucky fans insane. Aw shucks won’t work for them.

All of this.

Tommy’s a little underripe to get consideration for UK or Kansas or UNC.

I can't even imagine Lloyd is in serious consideration for any blue blood program. Sean Miller too.

Both losing to teams ranked 4 spots or lower multiple times. I get crap for saying this, but it's all about success in the tourney.

Usually when you hear that your coach is in contention for another position it's a ploy to get a raise, but Lloyd just received one, shortly after getting another one earlier.

As Kentucky may be finding out, the coaching market is a bit thin this year.

Here’s hoping those Wildcats decide on someone else. I don’t want to have Arizona be in a position where we are picking from the few climbers who have their names out there.

Merkin wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 2:49 pm
Both losing to teams ranked 4 spots or lower multiple times. I get crap for saying this, but it's all about success in the tourney.

That’s Kentucky boosters and fans frustrations with Cal. Recent lack of tourney success. They think they are entitled to competing yearly for the Nat Championship.

Uconn didn’t even come in 2nd in conference last season. In fact it’s been years since they won their conference till this season.

Winger wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 2:08 pm

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 1:23 pm Tommy's not leaving for Kentucky, right?

Got mixed messages on that yesterday which is to say that I am clueless on that right now.

Winger, do you know if anyone from Kentucky has even reached out to Tommy at all to gauge his interest? Or is this all message board paranoia?

VegasCatFan wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 2:59 pm

Winger wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 2:08 pm

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 1:23 pm Tommy's not leaving for Kentucky, right?

Got mixed messages on that yesterday which is to say that I am clueless on that right now.

Winger, do you know if anyone from Kentucky has even reached out to Tommy at all to gauge his interest? Or is this all message board paranoia?

Message board paranoia. I am sure I wouldn't know if anyone reached out to him and I agree with you all that it seems implausible that Kentucky would do so. A friend of mine who spends time with him now and again said yesterday that he'd be shocked if he left. Just got sort of an iffy response from someone at Arizona yesterday when I joked about this is what got me cockeyed.

Tommy seems like his mentor Few, who likes to stay in one place and build a lasting legacy.

Then again money talks. Didn’t Miller flirted with S. Carolina?

Djcat wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 3:12 pm Tommy seems like his mentor Few, who likes to stay in one place and build a lasting legacy.

Then again money talks. Didn’t Miller flirted with S. Carolina?

And if it wasn't for a messy burger he might still be there!

What’s the story with the burger?

Djcat wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 3:54 pm What’s the story with the burger?

The AD was eating one while interviewing Miller. And being a total slob about it.

Chicat wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 4:05 pm

Djcat wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 3:54 pm What’s the story with the burger?

The AD was eating one while interviewing Miller. And being a total slob about it.

Thanks Chi. Glad to see you are still on this board. Crazy to think I’ve “known” a lot of you since 2000s. That’s over 20 years.

Credit to the people who kept this going!

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 2:16 pm

Winger wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 2:08 pm

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 1:23 pm Tommy's not leaving for Kentucky, right?

Got mixed messages on that yesterday which is to say that I am clueless on that right now.

I would be astonished by this. With all due respect to Coach Lloyd, he hasn't exactly built the kind of resume (yet) that Kentucky has come to expect in its coaching candidates.

If Lloyd were actually offered the job, I think he's gone, and I also think it's because UK got rejected by multiple others first.

Can’t imagine CTL wanting more…..20 years waiting for chance in Spokane and get picked for Arizona job

Think it’s his dream job

Chicat wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 4:05 pm

Djcat wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 3:54 pm What’s the story with the burger?

The AD was eating one while interviewing Miller. And being a total slob about it.

It was Maryland, not South Carolina. SC was RichRod.

Winger wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 2:08 pm

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 1:23 pm Tommy's not leaving for Kentucky, right?

Got mixed messages on that yesterday which is to say that I am clueless on that right now.

Kentucky wants the best.....and they will pay dearly for it...Josh Pastner!

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 1:23 pm Tommy's not leaving for Kentucky, right?

If given the opportunity he has to take it. UK would triple what he's making at Arizona.

UAEebs86 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 4:42 pm

Chicat wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 4:05 pm

Djcat wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 3:54 pm What’s the story with the burger?

The AD was eating one while interviewing Miller. And being a total slob about it.

It was Maryland, not South Carolina. SC was RichRod.

Eebs, our Goazcats and BDW historian!