Bear Down Wildcats

Posted: **Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:09 pm**

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:03 pm
ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:53 pm
Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:50 pm
ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:47 pm It’s either take a big time job now or wait another decade plus to take over Gonzaga. He also has a child going to school in Phoenix. So it’s really now or wait longer for him.
It's quite the vote of confidence that this will be his one and only shot at a big time job in the next 10+ years. That's the mark of a can't miss coach, one that no other big time school will be interested in.

Sarcasm is not directed at you. I think you're right, it just underlines how ridiculous this is, that he has no chance of getting a sniff from another major program.
I guess theoretically he could say if UCLA bungles down again or maybe Oregon and Altman split. Depends solely on the market, but it’d have to be a west coast school. Dude is nowhere near as bad as you’re making him out to be. I get it your hurt right now Spiff lol.
I'm not really mad at this point. I'm pretty disgusted with the way Robbins and Heeke handled this, as I think they screwed Miller and honestly, more offensively, the players.

I may be wrong, but when apply what basketball knowledge I have, Miller's a good high major coach. I'm pretty confident he's have been in the top 15 next year and Robbins fired him now because if we were top 15, he couldn't fire him then.

I can't say I know much about Lloyd, but I'm less than impressed with the fact the transition he's be asked to make hasn't been successful in 32 years.

How many good ideas are borne out of the basis that it worked one time, 32 years ago?

UCLA was open 2 years ago and Lloyd didn't get a sniff. Depends on what you think is a good West Coast school, but SC before that and he didn't get a sniff. UW, not in the running. I mean, maybe Robbins sees something others don't but I see a guy who has not had a market and a transition no one's made in 32 years.

Decisions are usually odds. I can't sell myself the odds are anything close to decent here.

How do you justify Kansas ever hiring Assistant coach Roy Williams? Or UNC bumping up Herbert? What better experienced head coach can Arizona land? I mean it’s Lloyd or Damon. Come on. The market depends on what is available and some coaches are unavailable due to upcoming sanctions or racism or you name it.

Posted: **Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:09 pm**

Zero percent chance he was fired for any other reason than hurt asses. Chapped like a mofo!

Posted: **Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:10 pm**

https://www.si.com/college/2021/04/02/g ... e-mark-few

Posted: **Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:23 pm**

SCCats wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:48 pm
ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:47 pm
ASUHATER! wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:44 pm Yeah not sure why anyone thinks he'd even leave Gonzaga.
It’s either take a big time job now or wait another decade plus to take over Gonzaga.
He can take the AZ job now and take that job over in a decade (when it comes available) if he still wants it.

We are not Washington State.

Posted: **Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:28 pm**

Chicat wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:23 pm
SCCats wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:48 pm
ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:47 pm
ASUHATER! wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:44 pm Yeah not sure why anyone thinks he'd even leave Gonzaga.
It’s either take a big time job now or wait another decade plus to take over Gonzaga.
He can take the AZ job now and take that job over in a decade (when it comes available) if he still wants it.
We are not Washington State.

Again, I doubt he’s going to want to.

Again. Again.

Posted: **Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:29 pm**

We can absolutely become Washington State if Bobby and mid major Dave got this wrong.

Fire Miller? Do it in 2018. This is gutless nonsense from the Doctor.

Lloyd may be lightning in a bottle. I won't pretend to say otherwise.

I don't like or have ANY respect the way Robbins goes about his business and if Jordan, James, Dalen, Kerr, Ben, Tubelis leave, I have zero interest in the cats until Robbins and his pool boy Dave Heeke are gone. Bobby is a coward. All the success in the medical field and all the resume bullet points won't change the fact.

To all my fellow alums I talk to who are "muh Miller never made a final 4 and missed the tourney the last 2 years (of course everyone missed it last year"... enjoy this, you got your wish.

Posted: **Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:42 pm**

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:55 pm
goslingswagg wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:53 pm
ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:51 pm
Olsondogg wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:50 pm Heard he ain’t so squeaky clean either...just sayin
If that’s your concern then no coach is qualified for the job. Btw quit following @CoachingChanges lol.
Choo - do you have a good idea on the odds between Lloyd vs Damon? 70/30? 50/50?
With the caveat that time kills all deals I’d say Lloyd 85/15 to Damon.

So why are we hiring a consulting firm? Oh I forgot we have so much extra money. I don't know Lloyd but if he is so great why has no one pried him away in the last 20 years and if there is a good reason why did it change? Few will not coach another decade imho.

Posted: **Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:47 pm**

Yes I expect our next coach to be even faster to 300 wins then Lute or Hec......leaving Wooden in the dust. I love Damon but he is not a coach I would bet the farm on at this point in this career so if someone is really talking about him seriously we are in big trouble.

Posted: **Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:53 pm**

Seriously there is zero reason for a firm. If Lloyd is your jewel. Damon is the token black interview. You rub Pastner's shoulders just in case you find a way to be even more embarrassingly bad at your jobs.

This should about sum up the pathetic proceedings correct?

Posted: **Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:55 pm**

I don’t know about the search firm but it seems like a cover if things go sideways

Posted: **Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:02 pm**

BibbysTowelDude wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:53 pm Seriously there is zero reason for a firm. If Lloyd is your jewel. Damon is the token black interview. You rub Pastner's shoulders just in case you find a way to be even more embarrassingly bad at your jobs.

This should about sum up the pathetic proceedings correct?

If there's serious consideration for Josh Pastner then I'm done with Arizona basketball. The guy was about to be fired from Memphis and found a school stupid and desperate enough to hire him. He had a senior loaded team that needed a COVID forfeit to get into the ACC title game. He was a media sweetheart because that's what March Madness is about: feel good stories. He's peaked at G'Tech. They'll slide back into the bottom of the ACC next year. To even consider him for the head job at Arizona is an absolute joke.

Posted: **Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:05 pm**

zonagrad wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:02 pm
BibbysTowelDude wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:53 pm Seriously there is zero reason for a firm. If Lloyd is your jewel. Damon is the token black interview. You rub Pastner's shoulders just in case you find a way to be even more embarrassingly bad at your jobs.

This should about sum up the pathetic proceedings correct?
If there's serious consideration for Josh Pastner then I'm done with Arizona basketball. The guy was about to be fired from Memphis and found a school stupid and desperate enough to hire him. He had a senior loaded team that needed a COVID forfeit to get into the ACC title game. He was a media sweetheart because that's what March Madness is about: feel good stories. He's peaked at G'Tech. They'll slide back into the bottom of the ACC next year. To even consider him for the head job at Arizona is an absolute joke.

Don’t forget about his sanctions:

"We admonish Josh for his poor judgment" in allowing his former friend, Ron Bell, "to get close to the program in the first place," athletic director Todd Stansbury said.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/n ... /40204903/

Posted: **Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:06 pm**

Yea I questioned the search firm earlier. Something is off about that. The timing, IF Lloyd has been the guy all along makes sense for someone like Heeke/Robbins. However, If he knew he was going to fire Miller since January (f what he said today), get rid of him at the end of the season and find someone with some experience.

Is there a Heeke-Robbin-Prominent Booster-Lloyd tie that I'm missing? The timing doesn't make sense but I'm sure there's a reason behind it.

Posted: **Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:16 pm**

Olsondogg wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:55 pm I don’t know about the search firm but it seems like a cover if things go sideways

That’s exactly what it is. It’s a fake coaching search.

Posted: **Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:26 pm**

I think Steven’s is the booster tie from what I’ve read...

Posted: **Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:30 pm**

Great how much we paying for this fake search. Normally it is around $250-300K?

Posted: **Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:36 pm**

TheCat wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:30 pm Great how much we paying for this fake search. Normally it is around $250-300K?

What if I told you the search firm has been working on this for a month already?

Posted: **Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:38 pm**

I’m sure the recent articles on Lloyd are just a coincidence?

Posted: **Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:41 pm**

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:36 pm
TheCat wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:30 pm Great how much we paying for this fake search. Normally it is around $250-300K?
What if I told you the search firm has been working on this for a month already?

I'd hope so.

Posted: **Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:41 pm**

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:51 pm
Olsondogg wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:50 pm Heard he ain’t so squeaky clean either...just sayin
If that’s your concern then no coach is qualified for the job. Btw quit following @CoachingChanges lol.

Are you running the Twitter account @coachingchanges Choo

Looks like we found the source of that account

Posted: **Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:43 pm**

I suggested that a couple weeks ago. That there was a search going on and the “don’t steal girls thunder” was a ruse to buy time.
You assume that Lloyd finally said yes, so they Moe Greened Miller.

Posted: **Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:48 pm**

And what if Lloyd shafted us? What if he said yes then changed his mind? He's been offered a ton of coaching jobs past couple of years. None anywhere near a job this is but still. The moment he wants to sign a contract ya gotta get it done immediately.

Posted: **Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:54 pm**

BeardownZonaZona wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:48 pm And what if Lloyd shafted us? What if he said yes then changed his mind? He's been offered a ton of coaching jobs past couple of years. None anywhere near a job this is but still. The moment he wants to sign a contract ya gotta get it done immediately.

If it’s not done by Monday then panic

Posted: **Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:57 pm**

Thank you sir. I always appreciate your insight and knowledge Choo. Thanks for always giving us rational takes and good legitimate information. I, and I'm assuming the rest of the board, really appreciate your posts. Thanks man

Posted: **Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:10 pm**

midnightx wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:02 pm
Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:49 pm We fired a coach with a .730 win %, 5 Pac titles, 4 Elite Eights and a projected top 15 team in 2021...
That is an impressive resume, but that isn't why he was fired. The FBI/NCAA investigations, the allegiance to Book Richardson, and the stink over the program over the past couple of years is why he was fired.

Uh, bullshit. Then why wasn’t he fired 3 years ago, 2 years ago, 1 year ago, or at the end of this season?

*edit: ignore me as I usually deserve—didn’t see others covered this already.

Posted: **Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:14 pm**

Olsondogg wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:56 pm
He told me it’s a huge loss for Gonzaga and we will love what he brings. Especially in recruiting—Miller was stealing his model, etc.

He also said that he was key to everything going up for the zags the last few years

I'm not going to pretend I know Lloyd is going to work out, but I've heard this a few times browsing around. No actual sources that I know.

My thought process is that a solid coach who is a good recruiter can get it done in Tucson off the back of the brand. It's really about running and maintaining the program itself. That isn't easy, but from all accounts I've read/heard, the Zags already trust him with many day to day, practice, strategy, and obviously recruiting efforts.

I'm not gonna talk anyone out of hating the hire, but I definitely think we could do much worse.

Posted: **Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:17 pm**

The other thing my buddy said about Lloyd was “Unlike Miller he plays a style of hoops that doesn’t make your eyes bleed”

Posted: **Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:21 pm**

Olsondogg wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:17 pm The other thing my buddy said about Lloyd was “Unlike Miller he plays a style of hoops that doesn’t make your eyes bleed”

A style that Kerr and Terry should excel in. Dunno about the rest of the dudes sticking around, but Zu looked good later in the season with the floor spread, duh.

Posted: **Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:27 pm**

For me, I’d rather take a risk than get a retread. Also, if he’s had extensive international recruits contacts internationally he’s likely recruited several current Arizona players. Perhaps that makes it easier to retain the current team provided he gets the job and access to re recruit the team quickly.

As Choo said, this shit better be done Monday so we can salvage something. Otherwise I feel Arizona will be fucked for a long time

Posted: **Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:56 pm**

Olsondogg wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:17 pm The other thing my buddy said about Lloyd was “Unlike Miller he plays a style of hoops that doesn’t make your eyes bleed”

This is based on what?

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:25 am**

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:36 pm
TheCat wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:30 pm Great how much we paying for this fake search. Normally it is around $250-300K?
What if I told you the search firm has been working on this for a month already?

I would tell you it is $500K then and I would also tell you the AD is a piece of shit.

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:27 am**

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:54 pm
BeardownZonaZona wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:48 pm And what if Lloyd shafted us? What if he said yes then changed his mind? He's been offered a ton of coaching jobs past couple of years. None anywhere near a job this is but still. The moment he wants to sign a contract ya gotta get it done immediately.
If it’s not done by Monday then panic

Then I would also tell you the AD is a liar.......along with being a POS.

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:35 am**

cats101 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:56 pm
Olsondogg wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:17 pm The other thing my buddy said about Lloyd was “Unlike Miller he plays a style of hoops that doesn’t make your eyes bleed”
This is based on what?

Based on having a top 25 offense I guess. Wants to slow it down. If he is responsible for strategy then I question his analtical skills against Baylor. Specifically Gonzaga wins games in their league because they have the best players by far. I haven't seen much strategy in 25 point blowouts.

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:46 am**

TheCat wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:35 am
cats101 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:56 pm
Olsondogg wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:17 pm The other thing my buddy said about Lloyd was “Unlike Miller he plays a style of hoops that doesn’t make your eyes bleed”
This is based on what?
Based on having a top 25 offense I guess. Wants to slow it down. If he is responsible for strategy then I question his analtical skills against Baylor. Specifically Gonzaga wins games in their league because they have the best players by far. I haven't seen much strategy in 25 point blowouts.

Which I get if he's involved but we're going based on what were told. Things hit a bit different when you're in charge vs voicing your opinion in the background. Just saying

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:56 am**

this is just like the football hire for me.

never heard of fisch before, disliked the hiring process that got him the job, and while I dont have any bad feelings directly towards him, the hiring put a bad taste in my mouth that only on field results will wash away.

i've never heard of lloyd before (admittedly i've been unable to follow sports as closely as I once did, but he's an assistant so i doubt i would have known who he was even back when i was more rabid in my fandom), and i dislike the hiring process (firing miller as/when we did is a colossally stupid move imo), so while I dont have any bad feelings towards him I'll wait for on court results before I bother with warming up to the guy as a coach.

could either of these coaches be home run hires? sure. was the way they were hired a traveshamockery? yup.

but if it's lloyd, i'll wish him the best of luck.

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 4:43 am**

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:54 pm
BeardownZonaZona wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:48 pm And what if Lloyd shafted us? What if he said yes then changed his mind? He's been offered a ton of coaching jobs past couple of years. None anywhere near a job this is but still. The moment he wants to sign a contract ya gotta get it done immediately.
If it’s not done by Monday then panic

Panic? Nah....

You have to care to panic. Booby Bobbins has fucked this up to point that I no longer care. Hire a guy with no coaching experience. Hire a disgusting climber like Josh Pastner. Fuck, hire the ghost of Herb Sendek. Go ahead Booby. Hire whoever the fuck you want. But pray it doesn’t blow up in your face and fans like me start to care again that you fucked over the program we loved.

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:31 am**

Why aren't we talking about Bryce Drew?

He's done really well against his league, his brother just rehabbed a program in way worse shape than ours with way less tradition and took them to a Natty.

The Lopes made the tourney this year, the fans love him, can't believe nobody has mentioned his name.

Forgive me if someone has but I can't remember his name coming up recently.

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:20 am**

Usually top assistants at Big Schools leave for head coaching jobs at mid majors to cut their teeth

At Arizona, we’re hiring a top assistant at a mid major to cut his teeth at a top 10 program....

I’m so ready for this!!!!

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:45 am**

U.P. Zona Fan wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:31 am Why aren't we talking about Bryce Drew?

He's done really well against his league, his brother just rehabbed a program in way worse shape than ours with way less tradition and took them to a Natty.

The Lopes made the tourney this year, the fans love him, can't believe nobody has mentioned his name.

Forgive me if someone has but I can't remember his name coming up recently.

He fucked up at Vandy. Even with high major recruits in his third year, he went like 0-20 in conference. There's a reason why he's at GCU. And he's definitely not his brother. Scott figured out how to get good recruits AND coach them up. Bryce didn't. Maybe he can rehab his reputation and get a lower level P5 job, but he's not the guy for us right now.

Of course I say that when we're on the cusp of hiring a guy with zero head coaching experience who has only been an assistant at one school his entire career, so maybe Bryce isn't the egg fart I thought he was...

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:49 am**

Ahhh, forgot he was at Vandy. Yeah that was a disaster.

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:09 am**

If the Fisch hiring taught us anything it’s to sit back and just take it. Bobby is going to be Bobby and it doesn’t matter what Heeke, we fans or the big boosters want.

Sit back, lube up and try and not grimace

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:41 am**

zonagrad wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:01 pm If Lloyd is the guy and ultimately ends up successful, it still doesn't justify the handling of this by Robbins & Heeke.

In a way, this is somewhat reminiscent of the Tomey firing. An AD who didn't have a backbone got pressured into firing the most successful coach ever at Arizona. It was only then that they decided to invest money into facilities -- after Tomey was gone. While he was here and doing more with less -- the argument was that Arizona didn't need upgrades because Tomey was doing fine without them.

Now even the fucking tennis and women's volleyball have state of the art facilities -- facilities that our basketball and football program would've killed to have back in the 90's.

What a fucked up system. And guys like Heeke are paid a three quarters of a million dollars when real men before them accomplished so much more.

Exactly my thoughts and it pisses me off to no end that it is happening again.

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:58 am**

Don't forget Adia Barnes was an asst so Bobby is comfortable hiring promising aast coaches. If we get Lloyd, I will be about as happy as I can be in this situation. If we can continue with the game plan that Sean initiated, I think I can live with it. I still hate how Sean was treated. I think if we had fired him back in 2018-2019, it would have been better for both parties. So, play wide open basketball with 3-4 year athletes with an occasional OAD. I can get behind that. Bobby & Heeke need to go though

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:02 am**

Byrne hired Adia.

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:04 am**

84Cat wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:58 am Don't forget Adia Barnes was an asst so Bobby is comfortable hiring promising aast coaches.

I’m being a little nitpicky but Adia was hired by Greg Byrne (and Weaver) a year plus before Robbins was hired. She wasn’t his hire.

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:31 am**

I am all in on Tommy Lloyd at this point because what has happened has happened and I would absolutely hate a Damon or Pastner hire.

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:41 am**

Agreed. Lloyd is a risk but has the highest ceiling out of all our candidates

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:42 am**

gronk4heisman wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:31 am I am all in on Tommy Lloyd at this point because what has happened has happened and I would absolutely hate a Damon or Pastner hire.

Agreed.

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:48 am**

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:42 am
gronk4heisman wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:31 am I am all in on Tommy Lloyd at this point because what has happened has happened and I would absolutely hate a Damon or Pastner hire.
Agreed.

Likewise, although I wouldn't mind Damon as an assistant if he can pick up on recruiting.

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:50 am**

Hiring an assistant to be head coach in his/her first job at Arizona for Football or Women's Basketball is different than hiring a first-time head coach for Men's Basketball. Adia could make mistakes that cost games her first two or three years and nobody would care, as long as the team kept improving year over year. Which happened. Same thing happened with Stoops and Arizona football. We lost games we shouldn't have because Stoops was learning, but the product on the field was improving, so we lived with it, until Stoops hit his ceiling and the product on the field started fading.

Lloyd could be a homerun hire. But he could also be the next Matt Doherty, who just isn't cut out for the big chair. And if Arizona Men's Basketball loses games that have the fans saying Lute or Miller wouldn't have made that mistake, we'll be pissed. It's why most head coaches cut their teeth at mid majors or lower tier P5 schools first.

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