Looking forward...

[Olsondogg]

I’m all-in on Arizona basketball as I have been for almost 4 decades. It’s a love affair/obsession I cannot shake. It’s the same for you or you wouldn’t be on this obscure message board.

Emotions run hot in that type of relationship. I don’t fault anyone for saying things as outlandish as supporting asu over the cats. As I’ve learned in life, you don’t have to love everything about something or someone to be happy.

With that said, not knowing who the next coach will be or what the team will look like, I will support the players and the program as I have even when I didn’t like all the players or the dude on the sideline (fuck KO)

I hope we have a resolution soon. I hope we can retain most of the team I enjoyed watching play and grow from last year. I have hope the same way I did when Lute left. I root just as hard in the shitty times as I do the good.

I hope y’all join me. You eventually will. It’s why you’re here. Unless you’re just a troll—and you have your purpose too.

*caveat* if it’s pastner, ignore all I wrote above.

[zonagrad]

I’m all-in on Arizona basketball as I have been for almost 4 decades. It’s a love affair/obsession I cannot shake. It’s the same for you or you wouldn’t be on this obscure message board.

Emotions run hot in that type of relationship. I don’t fault anyone for saying things as outlandish as supporting asu over the cats. As I’ve learned in life, you don’t have to love everything about something or someone to be happy.

With that said, not knowing who the next coach will be or what the team will look like, I will support the players and the program as I have even when I didn’t like all the players or the dude on the sideline (fuck KO)

I hope we have a resolution soon. I hope we can retain most of the team I enjoyed watching play and grow from last year. I have hope the same way I did when Lute left. I root just as hard in the shitty times as I do the good.

I hope y’all join me. You eventually will. It’s why you’re here. Unless you’re just a troll—and you have your purpose too.

*caveat* if it’s pastner, ignore all I wrote above.

Great stuff. Yes, if it's Pastner then we're all going down to South America to sip some Kool Aid at a compound. That would be my nail in the coffin.

[Olsondogg]

Bump

[Spaceman Spiff]

I'm still out in terms of viewership or financial support until Robbins and Heeke are gone.

I'll predict Lloyd like this. 50% he's comparable to Sean Miller. 50% chance he's a downgrade from Sean Miller.

[Olsondogg]

I'm still out in terms of viewership or financial support until Robbins and Heeke are gone.

I'll predict Lloyd like this. 50% he's comparable to Sean Miller. 50% chance he's a downgrade from Sean Miller.

I hear that today. If he can retain the core of what Miller left him, that would go a long way for me.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I'm still out in terms of viewership or financial support until Robbins and Heeke are gone.

I'll predict Lloyd like this. 50% he's comparable to Sean Miller. 50% chance he's a downgrade from Sean Miller.

I hear that today. If he can retain the core of what Miller left him, that would go a long way for me.

I feel like he'd better. Unlike post-Lute, we were not in a rebuild. We had a top ten level returning roster. As such, I feel it's fair to expect top 15 results from Lloyd in short order.

Also, given the knock on Miller for no Final Fours, I feel like one of those should be on the horizon soon.

Robbins and Heeke need to go. That part is non-negotiable for me.

[Olsondogg]

I'm still out in terms of viewership or financial support until Robbins and Heeke are gone.

I'll predict Lloyd like this. 50% he's comparable to Sean Miller. 50% chance he's a downgrade from Sean Miller.

I hear that today. If he can retain the core of what Miller left him, that would go a long way for me.

I feel like he'd better. Unlike post-Lute, we were not in a rebuild. We had a top ten level returning roster. As such, I feel it's fair to expect top 15 results from Lloyd in short order.

Also, given the knock on Miller for no Final Fours, I feel like one of those should be on the horizon soon.

Robbins and Heeke need to go. That part is non-negotiable for me.

This

[EVCat]

I cheer for my school's team. So I'm in. I won't 2nd guess the coach...he didn't cause this mess. And i believe we were better with Miller. I also thought we should have kept Tomey (!) and was thrilled with Kevin Sumlin (?), so my record is clearly mixed. I will be very happy to be wrong.

[AzCatFan2]

I'll be a fan regardless. Lloyd is high risk, but high reward. We should have retained Miller, but at least we didn't hire someone like Brase. And for the record, Tomey's time in Tucson was stale, and it was time for a refresh. The mistake wasn't letting Tomey go, it was hiring Mackovic. Tomey's last six years, and only reached 8 or more wins once, and that was the magical 12-1 year in 1998, but it was surrounded by a ton of mediocrity. And I was never a fan of the Sumlin hire. Nobody did less with more talent than Sumlin at TAMU, and when he got to Tucson, nobody did less with mediocre talent.

[Olsondogg]

Here’s the thing on my mind...and this is based in logic so you can maybe throw it out. But why did Robbins cut bait to get Lloyd now?

I think it’s to see what a coach he wants can do with the same team as Miller—albeit after last years chances of a tourney were cancelled by Robbins. I’d bet that Robbins hired him now to show that his man could do more with the same, to show he’s some kind of genius.

Or I could just be very fucking tired of this last week.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Here’s the thing on my mind...and this is based in logic so you can maybe throw it out. But why did Robbins cut bait to get Lloyd now?

I think it’s to see what a coach he wants can do with the same team as Miller—albeit after last years chances of a tourney were cancelled by Robbins. I’d bet that Robbins hired him now to show that his man could do more with the same, to show he’s some kind of genius.

Or I could just be very fucking tired of this last week.

I think it's simple. He wanted Miller out and had to do it now because Miller would have won too much next year to justify firing him.

Lloyd...well, yeah, Robbins is probably attracted to him because he will be Robbins's guy if he wins. If he loses, he'll be Kevin Sumlin to the next coach's Jedd Fisch, where Robbins tries his "genius" hand again.

The timing is simple, though. Robbins did the tourney ban to eliminate any chance Miller produced a tourney run that would have made him unfireable. Then, he fired Miller before Miller could return a big time roster and win a lot with it.

[EVCat]

Not going to pretend to be Robbins' pal or in his circle, but I know in limited conversations I had with him 2 years ago, in informal (dinner, drinks) settings, he kept saying he "liked" Sean but felt he was too hard on players, who were afraid to make a mistake/played "tight". He was pretty willing to hand out that assessment, even as he was claiming to back Miller. It seems word is Robbins was more down on Sean the coach than Sean the NCAA scofflaw, so that would track to an extent.

Who knows? It's hard to pin logic on illogical actions.

[Chicat]

Looking forward..... I’m in wait and see mode. Which is the polar opposite of where I was when Miller was hired. I KNEW Sean Miller was the guy to get us out of the transition doldrums, and he did not disappoint.

Tommy Lloyd on the other hand is largely an unproven commodity.

Want to impress me? Get most of this year’s team to return and start getting next year’s class to commit. Then let’s see how he does on game days.

So really this is a full year process to get me back on board. Because at this point next year we better be trending up. If not, sorry Tommy but I’ll start talking about who your replacement should be.

[EastCoastCat]

First time in 50 years we have 2 brand new coaches in both football and basketball.

It’s now a wait and see for next year. If most of the roster stays that will say a lot about Lloyd’s ability to build a roster as the head man. Then if we see some good things out of recruiting that will make me feel even better.

The big thing for me is what identity will a Lloyd team have? We know what a Miller team looks like. What will be the MO of his teams? We shall certainly see.

[YoDeFoe]

Emotions run hot in that type of relationship. I don’t fault anyone for saying things as outlandish as supporting asu over the cats. As I’ve learned in life, you don’t have to love everything about something or someone to be happy.

Jeez dude, leave my marriage out of this.

[U.P. Zona Fan]

Here’s the thing on my mind...and this is based in logic so you can maybe throw it out. But why did Robbins cut bait to get Lloyd now?

I think it’s to see what a coach he wants can do with the same team as Miller—albeit after last years chances of a tourney were cancelled by Robbins. I’d bet that Robbins hired him now to show that his man could do more with the same, to show he’s some kind of genius.

Or I could just be very fucking tired of this last week.

I think it's simple. He wanted Miller out and had to do it now because Miller would have won too much next year to justify firing him.

Lloyd...well, yeah, Robbins is probably attracted to him because he will be Robbins's guy if he wins. If he loses, he'll be Kevin Sumlin to the next coach's Jedd Fisch, where Robbins tries his "genius" hand again.

The timing is simple, though. Robbins did the tourney ban to eliminate any chance Miller produced a tourney run that would have made him unfireable. Then, he fired Miller before Miller could return a big time roster and win a lot with it.

I agree with spiff,

The only other reason to do this now is if you have no common sense and don't understand how this affects your student athletes, assistant coaches, and the dynamics of the coaching pool.

I will say, if his intention was to get lloyd, he did it, but the way he, they, whatever, went about it, seems unethical, and feels icky.

[YoDeFoe]

Not going to pretend to be Robbins' pal or in his circle, but I know in limited conversations I had with him 2 years ago, in informal (dinner, drinks) settings, he kept saying he "liked" Sean but felt he was too hard on players, who were afraid to make a mistake/played "tight". He was pretty willing to hand out that assessment, even as he was claiming to back Miller. It seems word is Robbins was more down on Sean the coach than Sean the NCAA scofflaw, so that would track to an extent.

Who knows? It's hard to pin logic on illogical actions.

I hate the way this went down and I've been an adamant supporter of CSM - but I believe this as well, despite the praise from players. My specific gripe is that unless you were born hard as nails, it was tough for players to execute in big moments because of Miller's inability to switch from hyper-intense energy.

In contrast, I'm encouraged by this quote about Lloyd:

“He has an incredible basketball mind,” Wiltjer added. “He gets guys to compete, doesn’t waiver under pressure. He’s intense, but cool, calm and collected all the time. I think it would be safe to assume anyone in the basketball world knows a huge reason Gonzaga has had the success it has had in the past two decades is because of Tommy Lloyd.”

[Spaceman Spiff]

Not going to pretend to be Robbins' pal or in his circle, but I know in limited conversations I had with him 2 years ago, in informal (dinner, drinks) settings, he kept saying he "liked" Sean but felt he was too hard on players, who were afraid to make a mistake/played "tight". He was pretty willing to hand out that assessment, even as he was claiming to back Miller. It seems word is Robbins was more down on Sean the coach than Sean the NCAA scofflaw, so that would track to an extent.

Who knows? It's hard to pin logic on illogical actions.

I mean, it's just striking how people who played for Miller didn't think that. Ex-Lute players like Richard Jefferson didn't think that.

But heart surgeons and casual fans thought Miller was too harsh, so let's chuck out the guys who've actually been there. It's dumb and shows the basic arrogance and lack of trust on Robbins's part.

[prh]

This whole concept of Sean making players play tight, and Lloyd is the perfect antidote is laughable considering Gonzaga's tournament history relative to seed/expectation.

[YoDeFoe]

I mean, it's just striking how people who played for Miller didn't think that. Ex-Lute players like Richard Jefferson didn't think that.

But heart surgeons and casual fans thought Miller was too harsh, so let's chuck out the guys who've actually been there. It's dumb and shows the basic arrogance and lack of trust on Robbins's part.

I understand you disagree, and I don't generally think Miller was too harsh but specifically think it didn't serve him in tight spots while coaching. There are memes about Miller freaking out on the sideline for a reason. On the flipside: I've never been anywhere near the competitor that any of our players have been - so what do I know about what that level of athlete requires.

[Chicat]

Not going to pretend to be Robbins' pal or in his circle, but I know in limited conversations I had with him 2 years ago, in informal (dinner, drinks) settings, he kept saying he "liked" Sean but felt he was too hard on players, who were afraid to make a mistake/played "tight". He was pretty willing to hand out that assessment, even as he was claiming to back Miller. It seems word is Robbins was more down on Sean the coach than Sean the NCAA scofflaw, so that would track to an extent.

Who knows? It's hard to pin logic on illogical actions.

I mean, it's just striking how people who played for Miller didn't think that. Ex-Lute players like Richard Jefferson didn't think that.

But heart surgeons and casual fans thought Miller was too harsh, so let's chuck out the guys who've actually been there. It's dumb and shows the basic arrogance and lack of trust on Robbins's part.

Depends on the player. Zeus, NJ, and TJM would tell you that Miller was the right amount of tough. Someone like Pit Stop Grant Jarrett might tell you differently.

Lloyd is going to have to learn that balance if he hasn’t already. Some guys need to be pushed to bring out the best in themselves. Others need a pat on the back. Learning who is who and when each can handle and use a certain tone or level of coaching is key to getting the best out of everyone.

[Alieberman]

This whole concept of Sean making players play tight, and Lloyd is the perfect antidote is laughable considering Gonzaga's tournament history relative to seed/expectation.

I don't know what Lloyd will do but at least let's be honest about what Gonzaga has done.

Here is their last 8 years:

2013–14 Mark Few 29–7 15–3 1st NCAA Round of 32 (8 seed)
2014–15 Mark Few 35–3 17–1 1st NCAA Elite Eight (2 seed)
2015–16 Mark Few 28–8 15–3 T1st NCAA Sweet Sixteen (11 seed)
2016–17 Mark Few 37–2 17–1 1st NCAA Runner-up (1 seed)
2017–18 Mark Few 32–5 17–1 1st NCAA Sweet Sixteen (4 seed)
2018–19 Mark Few 33–4 16–0 1st NCAA Elite Eight (1 seed)
2019–20 Mark Few 31–2 15–1 1st Postseason not held
2020–21 Mark Few 31–1 15–0 1st NCAA Runner-up (1 seed)

[Olsondogg]

Gonzaga is legit. It’s not 2009.

[ASUHATER!]

Yeah if we can't keep Miller, I'm happy with a guy who was instrumental in leading his program to 6 sweet 16s, 4 elite 8s and 2 final 4s in the last 7 years as a "mid major"

[prh]

This whole concept of Sean making players play tight, and Lloyd is the perfect antidote is laughable considering Gonzaga's tournament history relative to seed/expectation.

I don't know what Lloyd will do but at least let's be honest about what Gonzaga has done.

Here is their last 8 years:

2013–14 Mark Few 29–7 15–3 1st NCAA Round of 32 (8 seed)
2014–15 Mark Few 35–3 17–1 1st NCAA Elite Eight (2 seed)
2015–16 Mark Few 28–8 15–3 T1st NCAA Sweet Sixteen (11 seed)
2016–17 Mark Few 37–2 17–1 1st NCAA Runner-up (1 seed)
2017–18 Mark Few 32–5 17–1 1st NCAA Sweet Sixteen (4 seed)
2018–19 Mark Few 33–4 16–0 1st NCAA Elite Eight (1 seed)
2019–20 Mark Few 31–2 15–1 1st Postseason not held
2020–21 Mark Few 31–1 15–0 1st NCAA Runner-up (1 seed)

They also lost in the 2nd round as a 1 seed in 2013, and had not made an Elite Eight prior to 2015 despite being a top 3 seed 3 other times. The only years they've outperformed their seed number is as a double digit seed.

[Olsondogg]

Seed number performance is the weakest argument. Lmao.

[Alieberman]

This whole concept of Sean making players play tight, and Lloyd is the perfect antidote is laughable considering Gonzaga's tournament history relative to seed/expectation.

I don't know what Lloyd will do but at least let's be honest about what Gonzaga has done.

Here is their last 8 years:

2013–14 Mark Few 29–7 15–3 1st NCAA Round of 32 (8 seed)
2014–15 Mark Few 35–3 17–1 1st NCAA Elite Eight (2 seed)
2015–16 Mark Few 28–8 15–3 T1st NCAA Sweet Sixteen (11 seed)
2016–17 Mark Few 37–2 17–1 1st NCAA Runner-up (1 seed)
2017–18 Mark Few 32–5 17–1 1st NCAA Sweet Sixteen (4 seed)
2018–19 Mark Few 33–4 16–0 1st NCAA Elite Eight (1 seed)
2019–20 Mark Few 31–2 15–1 1st Postseason not held
2020–21 Mark Few 31–1 15–0 1st NCAA Runner-up (1 seed)

They also lost in the 2nd round as a 1 seed in 2013, and had not made an Elite Eight prior to 2015 despite being a top 3 seed 3 other times. The only years they've outperformed their seed number is as a double digit seed.

Name a program that has done better overall in the last 10 years?

[ASUHATER!]

This whole concept of Sean making players play tight, and Lloyd is the perfect antidote is laughable considering Gonzaga's tournament history relative to seed/expectation.

I don't know what Lloyd will do but at least let's be honest about what Gonzaga has done.

Here is their last 8 years:

2013–14 Mark Few 29–7 15–3 1st NCAA Round of 32 (8 seed)
2014–15 Mark Few 35–3 17–1 1st NCAA Elite Eight (2 seed)
2015–16 Mark Few 28–8 15–3 T1st NCAA Sweet Sixteen (11 seed)
2016–17 Mark Few 37–2 17–1 1st NCAA Runner-up (1 seed)
2017–18 Mark Few 32–5 17–1 1st NCAA Sweet Sixteen (4 seed)
2018–19 Mark Few 33–4 16–0 1st NCAA Elite Eight (1 seed)
2019–20 Mark Few 31–2 15–1 1st Postseason not held
2020–21 Mark Few 31–1 15–0 1st NCAA Runner-up (1 seed)

They also lost in the 2nd round as a 1 seed in 2013, and had not made an Elite Eight prior to 2015 despite being a top 3 seed 3 other times. The only years they've outperformed their seed number is as a double digit seed.

What have you done for me lately is a much more convincing argument than what they did 10+ years ago. Gonzaga post 2012 or so is a whole different program than 2004 Gonzaga.

[prh]

All I'm saying is that this notion of replacing Miller with someone the opposite and thinking it's going to be a magic fix is stupid. Gonzaga is obviously a great program, but I would say their tournament results are about what should be expected or slightly short of it. But the statement that implies we'll be better under pressure because of the different style has no evidence.

[gronk4heisman]

Arizona was last in the tournament as a 4 seed and lost in the first round. Before that a 2 seed that lost in the sweet 16 and before that a 6 seed that lost in the first round. Not sure what your argument is.

[prh]

Arizona was last in the tournament as a 4 seed and lost in the first round. Before that a 2 seed that lost in the sweet 16 and before that a 6 seed that lost in the first round. Not sure what your argument is.

My argument is that just thinking a laid back coach is going to be a magic fix is stupid. Just like everything else Heeke and Robbins have done.

[Olsondogg]

How about everyone admit they don’t know what’s gonna happen, cause you fucking don’t.

[Alieberman]

All I'm saying is that this notion of replacing Miller with someone the opposite and thinking it's going to be a magic fix is stupid. Gonzaga is obviously a great program, but I would say their tournament results are about what should be expected or slightly short of it. But the statement that implies we'll be better under pressure because of the different style has no evidence.

I agree with all of this.

All I was saying is people seem to have this ridiculous view of Gonzaga as an underachiever when in fact they have been the most consistent dominant program in the last decade..... regular season AND post season. It's not Duke... It's not Kentucky... it's not North Carolina..... and it sure as hell ain't Kansas.

[Beachcat97]

If we were willing to hire an assistant, a 20-year guy from Gonzaga is as good as it's gonna get. Every good coach was an assistant at some point in his career.

[azgreg]

How about everyone admit they don’t know what’s gonna happen, cause you fucking don’t.

Do you even message board bro?

[Spaceman Spiff]

I mean, it's just striking how people who played for Miller didn't think that. Ex-Lute players like Richard Jefferson didn't think that.

But heart surgeons and casual fans thought Miller was too harsh, so let's chuck out the guys who've actually been there. It's dumb and shows the basic arrogance and lack of trust on Robbins's part.

I understand you disagree, and I don't generally think Miller was too harsh but specifically think it didn't serve him in tight spots while coaching. There are memes about Miller freaking out on the sideline for a reason. On the flipside: I've never been anywhere near the competitor that any of our players have been - so what do I know about what that level of athlete requires.

So, this is heavily influenced by my own experience. The caveat is if I was any good, I'd have been more than a midmajor practice body.

So I wasn't good, but I did get to see Trent Johnson up close, and he went on to coach at Stanford, LSU and TCU. Mark Fox too. First, some players need that. You'd be shocked at how many D1 players are relatively indifferent towards basketball.

Second, Johnson could be harsh, but he was nothing compared to high school. My HS coaches might have been charged with crimes in today's environment.

Next, sports culture is different. I can say that now as a professional in a white collar job, no one grabs me by the collar, drags me to a spot and calls me a motherfucker any more. When I played sports, that was nothing.

I mean, most of all, I just never saw someone respond to the coach. You know who your coach is and you see that shit every day. A guy like Miller, I see him as being that guy 24/7. You only get shook when your normally chill coach looks like he's shitting bricks.

But I wasn't very good at basketball, so maybe I don't know like Robbins does.

[Olsondogg]

How about everyone admit they don’t know what’s gonna happen, cause you fucking don’t.

Do you even message board bro?

I stopped before. Wondering why I came back.

[AZCatGirl]

I feel like same way about Lloyd as I do about Fisch. They need to earn my loyalty.

Fisch is off to a good start but still needs to deliver on the field. If Lloyd can get most of the team to return he'll be off to a good start, but he still needs to deliver on the court. And the bar is a lot higher for basketball.

So I wish him the best of luck because he has some tough times ahead.

[Spaceman Spiff]

How about everyone admit they don’t know what’s gonna happen, cause you fucking don’t.

Do you even message board bro?

I stopped before. Wondering why I came back.

Well, thumbs ups sometimes help put a band aid on my insecurity and provide a superficial boost to my ego.

Plus, it's like 10x better than Facebook comments. On FB, it's a bunch of people who think packline is a fishing technique who think Mike Bibby would be a great choice for U of A's next coach. He's so nice.

[Olsondogg]

How about everyone admit they don’t know what’s gonna happen, cause you fucking don’t.

Do you even message board bro?

I stopped before. Wondering why I came back.

Well, thumbs ups sometimes help put a band aid on my insecurity and provide a superficial boost to my ego.

Plus, it's like 10x better than Facebook comments. On FB, it's a bunch of people who think packline is a fishing technique who think Mike Bibby would be a great choice for U of A's next coach. He's so nice.

Never did Facebook. Got rid of insta. I am a Twitter addict though.

But the mute option along with blocking is a godsend.

[Postmaster]

So will we have Shakur and Othick coach the red blue game?

[ASUHATER!]

Controversial opinion...I never got the hate for Shakur...

[Olsondogg]

Well blame Biggie.

[AzCatFan2]

Lloyd as head coach is an unknown. We have no idea how successful he'll be. We can only hope that Lloyd brings in top players to Tucson the way he brought top players to Spokane. And that on the court, we have success like Gonzaga, or at the level we are accustomed to.

[TheCat]

Hope he does great. Hope the administration is removed sooner then later especially Heeke,

I will miss the fire displayed by Miller. The timeout against UCLA, he touch the ball (which ended up uncovering the referee scandal in the PAC), telling a Phoenix reporter sent to stir up trouble to go back to Phoenix, telling a ref that he is out of his element and when he replies telling him not to F with him. Those things that others hated is what I loved about coach. He was real, he had feelings and sometimes his emotions got the best of him. His players loved him and it seemed the higher his expectations for a player the harder he drove them. He was fiercely protected of players against critics. He was honest and he told it like it was even when he felt he was having a hard time reaching/coaching his team.
I'll miss coach because I know that he is never coming back and we may never have another one like him. To some that is a good thing but to me it is sad. I hope coach Lloyd is successful because that is what CSM would want for his guys and what I want for my University. We are about to enter the unknown. We have an unproven assistant coach. Just like we did with Snowden. Let's hope Lloyd find his Eric Money, Coniel Norman, Big Bird, Herm the Germ, Lenny G, and starts a new movement we can all be proud of.

[Olsondogg]

The narrative will be:

Bobby Knight——> Ted Lasso

[zonagrad]

How about everyone admit they don’t know what’s gonna happen, cause you fucking don’t.

Yep, that's about where I'm at.

I'm still pissed about how everything with Miller went down. And I certainly want Lloyd to succeed. Even if he does well, it's still bullshit to say Robbins made the right move by forcing Miller out when he did. Fans are fickle. But I won't forget. Robbins and Heeke are fuckers and I hate that they represent Arizona. It's not about making a change in the basketball program. That could've come next season had Miller been given the opportunity to coach and not performed well. I think most Miller supporters would've been perfectly ok with that.

Robbins & Heeke represent to me spineless bureaucrats who crave and seek power at all costs and will lie and deceive to get what they want. The ABOR is no better and probably worse. Who the fuck put these assholes in charge?

[zonagrad]

Controversial opinion...I never got the hate for Shakur...

2005. Chicago. Elite 8.

[Longhorned]

How about everyone admit they don’t know what’s gonna happen, cause you fucking don’t.

Yep, that's about where I'm at.

I'm still pissed about how everything with Miller went down. And I certainly want Lloyd to succeed. Even if he does well, it's still bullshit to say Robbins made the right move by forcing Miller out when he did. Fans are fickle. But I won't forget. Robbins and Heeke are fuckers and I hate that they represent Arizona. It's not about making a change in the basketball program. That could've come next season had Miller been given the opportunity to coach and not performed well. I think most Miller supporters would've been perfectly ok with that.

Robbins & Heeke represent to me spineless bureaucrats who crave and seek power at all costs and will lie and deceive to get what they want. The ABOR is no better and probably worse. Who the fuck put these assholes in charge?

This is all very fair. I'll add that when you buy a pig in a poke, you don't get credit when the pig grows fat. There have always been great assistant coaches in other programs, and there's a reason why big-time programs haven't hired them as their new HC. And there's a reason why Arizona previously hired coaches with the track records of Lute at Iowa and Sean at Xavier.

That's why if the AC becomes a legendary HC, you deserve no credit. But you sure as hell deserve all the blame if you fire without cause a proven HC with a top 15 team and it all goes south. It's dumb on the face of it.

[Spaceman Spiff]

There have always been great assistant coaches in other programs, and there's a reason why big-time programs haven't hired them as their new HC.

This is an insanely underrated point for me. The last hire of this type to succeed was Roy Williams in 1988.

No disrespect to Lloyd, but you can't convince me he stands alone among assistant coaches over the last 30+ years. There are a lot of guys who've kicked ass as assistants during that time and not sniffed the job Lloyd just got.